162 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

alaska-the-1st wrote...
Yeah, come on guys don't let your atheistic ways pee all over the only true artistic parts of the game.

Only?

[Vexille]

Sooo am I the only one who told the souless toaster to sod off then had the space gypsies blow them out of the sky?

Why did I kill them you ask?

Freakin robot STOLE MY ARMOR FOR REPAIRS... he doesent even hide it and he doesent apologize when I confront him about it... I mean I expect the space gypsy Tali to steal from me... but the Robot? Sorry that **** doesent fly here. If at any point Legion had just given me back the armor or at least given me a "my bad" I likely would have shown mercy... but he didnt

So yes, I committed genocide on the Geth because Legion was a dirty thief (Must have picked it up from the creators I guess).

[Bizbag]

I am atheistic myself, but I didn't share the earlier poster's reaction, partly because the question. "does this unit have a soul?" was not, ultimately, a religious question, and I think everyone in the story understood that. The question was meant in the sense of "Am I alive? Am I sentient?"
Of course, the very fact that they could ask the question suggests its answer; that is why, as Legion says, it frightened the creators.
It was never in question whether the Geth were alive, in the looser sense of being self-aware, but Legion proved they were more than animals- they are people with souls.

[zephyr2025]

Arcian wrote...

zephyr2025 wrote...

Heavvy Metall wrote...

Technically no one has a soul due to souls not existing.

Yeah I wish there was an option to say, "No one has a soul, Legion." That would have been perfect for me but what eves.

>Atheists cannot tolerate other people believing in things they don't believe in and need to shove their anti-beliefs down the throats of others because they hate people who shove their beliefs down peoples throats
Stay classy.

It's mostly from my Buddhist beliefs but thanks. Didn't realize I was shoving it down your throat with a forum comment.

[Eain]

Valraine wrote...

 Could you say "no" to Legion? 

Sure. I would say "No, Legion, you don't. But neither does anyone. The word soul is a superstitious fabrication dating to a time where we didn't understand that sentient life was the product of a complex neural structure. Whether this structure is chemical or digital is in the end irrelevant; sentience is sentience. Welcome to the party."

[Deflagratio]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Easily. But I'd say no to anyone else that asked, too.

YEAH ATHEIST

Speaking of which, it was cool that they had Shepard comment on what it was like being dead for two years.

A philosophical soul is different than a religious soul. In this sense, "Soul" refers to Legion's legitimacy as a living entity rather than a construct. It's a more dramatic way of asking if it was a person.

[Ponei]

Why did he have to sacrifice himself? I didn't quite get it sinse it appeared they already had the data uploaded.

[Iwillbeback]

Arcian wrote...

zephyr2025 wrote...

Heavvy Metall wrote...

Technically no one has a soul due to souls not existing.

Yeah I wish there was an option to say, "No one has a soul, Legion." That would have been perfect for me but what eves.

>Atheists cannot tolerate other people believing in things they don't believe in and need to shove their anti-beliefs down the throats of others because they hate people who shove their beliefs down peoples throats
Stay classy.

No one has a soul, you're just an accident.
A genetic mutation, you wither and die.

[Deventh]

"Yes, yes he does..."

[Beti88]

It had... then the endings came

[Mavaras]

I like to reference Data's trial from Star Trek:TNG.

I don't know if Legion has a soul, but he should have the right to explore that question and answer it for himself.

Modifié par Mavaras, 05 avril 2012 - 09:46 .

[Naoe]

The Angry One wrote...
"Legion, the answer to your question was yes."
"I know Tali, but thank you. Keelah Se'lai."
I lost it right there. That's how you write the end of a story arc.

You're sure...? With geth being able to restore their programs from backups and all...
Edit> To clarify - I'm talking about ending the story arc. I have no problems with the soul part.

Modifié par Naoe, 05 avril 2012 - 09:58 .

[Tehzim]

It was one of the most striking lines in the game for me, because it raises a lot of interesting questions that Sci-Fi is best at. What is life? What does it mean to be a person? If people are different are they still equal? At what point does an artificial life become indistinguishable from an organic one? If they are indistinguishable physically and psychologically, are they also equal morally and spiritually? What about people who become integrated into synthetic life, like a brain in a jar?

All these questions are great philosophical conundrums that are frequently addressed in speculative fiction like Mass Effect. When it stopped asking questions like this it came down to "because the star kid said so."

Though I did like the option in the first game when Ashley said she hoped her dead father was watching her and you could have Shepard say "is he a zombie?" Ask the questions but don't give the answers. THAT IS THE KIND OF SPECULATION WE WANT.

[Shalewind]

It doesn't have to mean soul in the metaphysical/religious sense. It can represent individuality and character just as much as the other term. I think its ambiguous enough here that either way can be taken.

[sergio71785]

"Does this unit have a soul?"

"No"

"apt-get Soul"

"Still nothing"

"sudo apt-get Soul"

"There you go. Yes, you do have one."




What? We all know the geth run on linux. 

[McGlone16]

As someone who romanced Tali and refused to look to see how things played out, this was by far the toughest choice of all three games. I have the LI in one ear saying don't do it and the extremely sympathetic Legion asking that heart wrenching question. In the end I decided if Tali couldn't get it then screw her, wasn't going to doom the geth. Luckily it worked out!

[JesseLee202]

I respectively disagree with Tali on this one. No Legion, you are a machine, nothing more.

[Billabong2011]

Cried like a baby. Yes, ma'am, I did.
EDIT: And yes, Legion, to me, is most likely to have a soul out of anyone.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 05 avril 2012 - 01:36 .

[Naoe]

JesseLee202 wrote...
I respectively disagree with Tali on this one. No Legion, you are a machine, nothing more.

So are we. What's your point?

[bloodmoon0011]

To read this question as literal is to completely miss the point.  It's not about spiritualism; it's about life.  When the Geth asked that question, they wanted to know if they were alive.  That was a huge, central point in the ME series:  What is life? 

I'm an atheist.  It's not "I don't believe in God", it's "I believe there is no God", which is a big difference.  I personally don't believe in the idea of a soul, but that's not the point behind the question.  The point is this:  What is being alive?  At what point does a VI become an AI, or more to the point, beyond what line does something that merely SEEMS alive or ACTS alive become truly alive? 

It's like the argument you can hear and take a side on between Engineer Adams and Dr. Chakwas in the mess in ME3.  Adams takes the side that a program/machine, such as the geth or EDI, are alive because of self-awareness, but Dr. Chakwas takes a more hard-line organicist approach, saying that only an organic creature can be alive.  Adams replies to this ideology by saying something along these lines:  Organics are chemical, machines are electronic, but they both are machines whose processes amount to sentience and self-awareness, and closing off the realm of "alive" to synthetics simply because they are synthetic is too narrow-minded.

I agree.  My two cents is that if you have the ability to ask if you have a soul, and truly ask it to know the answer, then you already do.  In my feeling, a "soul" is nothing more than self-awareness, and self-awareness is what makes something alive, regardless of whether that cognisance is created through electrons or atoms.  To limit it in such a way is to entirely miss the point of being alive in the first place, and can only breed seperatism and schisms.

[bloodmoon0011]

Oh goddammit, necro-thread. My bad, mods, my bad. :|

[Interloper]

bloodmoon0011 wrote...

Oh goddammit, necro-thread. My bad, mods, my bad. :|

IT'S TOO LATE. YOU WILL NOW PAY THE PRICE. DEATH BY EJECTION FROM AIRLOCK. Necromancy of any threads is strictly forbidden, and to play with this black magic is a heinous crime indeed!

[JnEricsonx]

I believe the dialogue at :40 sets it up perfectly.

Modifié par JnEricsonx, 12 juillet 2013 - 08:06 .

[Wolfva2]

This unit MUST have a soul. You can't resurect something without one. Otherwise, it'd be a zombie thread. Roaming the halls of the BSN, eating the brains of all the other threads....



Which would mean the poor beastie would die of starvation.....