[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
-yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
-yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
-Ashley,none,ashley, Yes I think I enjoyed it more because of the inclusion of L.Is in general.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Yes
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
yes
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Saving/recruiting garrus on omega, Meeting ashley again in ME2, reuniting with former squad members in ME3, the common theme I found was in the near brotherhood I shared with them.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
I believe they are art, art is fluid
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
-to me it felt like ashley was re-written in ME3, that quite annoyed me as she was one of my favourite characters in the first game.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No as it was introduced seconds before the credits and was in the middle of a plot hole.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Im not really sure, maybe i guess. Id probably guess the first reason.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No it certainly wouldnt, The ending was filled with plot holes and below bioware. I think changing it would allow me to return to the "shut up and take my money" state of mind I used to enjoy. I doubt I am alone.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Because stranding the crew also is full of plotholes and indicates they just abandoned shepard
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
I prefered the reapers when they were evil for unknown reasons.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
With what I heard the other franchises use of it made sense, In me3 shepard completely changes character in the last 5 mins while the ending changes the themes of the series completely.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I cant say, however ign does seem quite biased.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I finished it once and have not been able to play the series single player once since that and have only played a little multiplayer. I got my copy on the 8th and finished the game on the 11th
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I think it was poorly written, full of plotholes and inconsistencys, breaking promises made, unworthy of bioware, and to be honest as much as it hurts me to say it, I have seen many fan written endings that were better written. The last point is the hardest to bear for me.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I think the ending is the only factor in the lack of replay value. I dont have much of an opinion on multiplayer except that I wish they had put the time spent on multiplayer into the singleplayer.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I dont know about kai leng, I did not really mind what happened between garrus and tali. However joker abandoning the fight really ticked me off.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
unsure of meaning of question,
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I would pay for a new ending.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I think there is plenty of evidence for the indoctrination theory. I hope this is the case.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all of the DLC apart from I think it was genisis that had the interactive ME1 comic book. No Need for that.
my reason was that I was quite a fan when I first got ME2 and I wanted to get as much ME2 as I could.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I have no idea
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I got the from ashes DLC with my collectors edition, I dont really judge it badly though as it is Heavily related however as it is not like you miss out on a huge amount if you do not have it. Im just glad it is done better than the squad member DLC in ME2.
Study of Retakers and Proenders
Débuté par
Infinityphoenix
, avril 05 2012 05:37
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:36
CheeseEnchilada
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- Members
- 1 213 messages
I was wondering if someone would do a study of this. Very interesting topic, and I hope this helps!
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3? Yes, I have.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends? N/A
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise? Yes, multiple times.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game? While Ashley and Kaidan were romanced in ME1, my goal was to have my three Shepards stay loyal to their ME2 interests--Jack, Thane and Jacob. The treatment of the two males affected my enjoyment of the game--I felt as though I was being told I made the wrong choice, and my roleplaying options felt limited. There was no option to mourn Thane, and Shepard's lack of emotion in his death scene and aftermath felt particularly jarring. The treatment of Jacob felt out of character, and his romance was clearly an afterthought. While I wish for more time with Jack, she granted the achievement and was considered an option. The latter two were not, and felt shoved aside.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them? Bioware did an excellent job with making me care for each and every one of the characters; even if I disagreed with their views or their personalities clashed with my own, I felt an emotional attachment and wanted to save them all.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other? No. I do wish there were more options for renegades, and I dislike how some paragon options are obviously the better choice when the reverse is not common, but it didn't stop me from choosing renegade options or playing as a full renegade.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them? Tuchanka and ME2's suicide mission were by far my favorite missions in the series, and they both showcase choices and consequences quite well--if you do 'x', 'y' will happen and you will feel those effects. In both missions, there are varied results as well--you can walk away feeling triumphant and victorious, let a few people down but get the job done, or get the job done at any cost.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid? 'Art' is a subjective term, and while I do think video games as a whole can be seen as an art form, I believe that like any product that is sold to a mass market, it is fluid. Authors change portions of books based on fan response. Movies will change their endings depending on how well they're received by test audiences. With DLC available, games should be held to the same standards. Add in the fact that this is an active medium, with developers encouraging fans to shape their own world, and some level of communication and understanding should take place.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with? The character of Thane seems to be set to a default, which is discouraging. A non-loyal and loyal Thane are worlds apart, and a romanced Thane takes this one step further--one is clearly still suicidal, while the other is shedding tears and admitting his fear of death. Yet there are no talks of prolonging his life, or even an ability to question why he did not do so. He acts the same way if you did his mission or not, and from the way he is immediately forgotten by every character, it feels as though he was simply being written out. As his writer left Bioware, this is not a huge surprise.
A romanced Jacob seems off as well. A man of honor is now admitting to cheating on Shepard, showing little remorse, and there is no fallout from this. The entire thing is a mess, and points to writers wanting to axe his romance subplot, as it wasn't as popular as the others. It's understandable to an extent, but unfair, and executed quite poorly.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms? The Adam and Eve reference felt incredibly heavy-handed, considering we already had an Adam and Eve plot, and even a character with the nickname of Eve. The genophage missions did this idea of a fresh beginning and new start far better, as it was forshadowed since the very first game. The confusion on how Synthesis even works combined with the ham-fisted approach makes the whole thing seem forced.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending? There were moments in the game, such as the numerous references to Garrus' calibrations that felt like a nod to the fanbase. While some of it was quite enjoyable, there were moments where it was taken too far--yes, calibrations are funny. But bringing it up more than twice is overkill. I do not think they were trying to detract fans from thinking about the ending--I believe it was their way of attempting to connect, and while it succeeded many times, they may have been a bit overzealous.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity? Not at all. Tali and Garrus were bumped up to love interests in the second game, and were the only ME2 characters to return to the squad thanks to fan reaction. Mass Effect: Deception is in the process of being edited and changed thanks to fan outcry. Look to the last question--from all of the nods to the fanbase that was placed into the game, it would feel cheap not to change the ending, or at least acknowledge that many, many fans are upset and have the right to be.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different? The lack of explanation along with the logical fallicies makes stranding the crew quite a bit different. How did Joker get to the mass relay that quickly, and why would he abandon Shepard and the fight? How did you squadmates on earth get onto the Normandy? Why was this even necessary? Even without EDI, the idea of Adam and Eve and the crew discovering 'Eden' was unnecessary, and a huge blow to those who were invested in the characters. After all of that, they're stranded on a random planet, with quite unfortunate implications (where's the dextro food? How will they continue the species?) If they had landed on earth, it would have made the endings a bit easier to swallow. Not much, but every bit counts.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone? The Reapers were Lovecraftian in nature ever since the first dialog with Soverign, and it should have been left that way. The story is not about the Reapers--it's about Shepard, about the crew, about organics and synthetics and uniting the galaxy. In this situation, a simple villain works, and not every antagonist needs to be humanized and given a Freudian Excuse. We have the Illusive Man and Saren for that. By keeping the Lovecraftian vibe, you may get a few fans asking what the true motivations were and speculation on that end. By revealing an understandable and simplified explanation, you instead have fans rolling their eyes and losing the fear and awe that the Reapers once held. The antagonists lose their magic.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different? Mass Effect 3 is an interactive trilogy that is based on choices and consequences. You, the player character are Commander Shepard. You choose your sex, race, apperance, demeanor, love interest, friends, enemies, and how to shape the galaxy. The lore is explained well, the Codex is enormous, and up until the endings, plot holes existed but were understandable. When pushed to this level of involvement, fans will take things personally--Joker abandoning Shepard and making his way to the relay with no explanation isn't just confusing, but insulting.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat? Time and money constraints are my only guesses. That, or they assumed fans would be upset no matter what, and just threw something together. It's the sloppy photoshop job that is the most insulting, and she would have benefited from an actual in-game rendered face, even if I don't agree with how she looks.
As for Jessica Chobot and IGN, I don't think it matters if she did have an influence in the score of the game. The entire situation is uncomfortable, and should not be repeated. If Freddie Prinze Jr. had a connection with IGN and they still cast him as Vega, it would be mildly uncomfortable, but understandable--the man is an actor, after all. Jessica Chobot is not, and the strangest move of all is that Jessica Chobot does not play Diana Allers, but she is Diana Allers. She is given a face scan, no character developement, and seems to only exist for sex appeal. Money should not have been wasted on this, and been funneled into a more appropriate avenue.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game? I have beaten it once, reloaded the final mission once and stopped before the final choice, and have not managed to get past Rannoch on my second playthrough.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion? As a Lost fan and someone who played the original Neverwinter Nights 2 literal 'rocks fall, everyone dies' ending, I can say that I have never held such hatred for an ending before. As stated earlier, this is a series where personal investment is pushed. A theme has been triumphing against the odds, and yet we're left with listening to a brand-new character give a paradoxial explanation for the Reapers, and then give us three options to finish the game. Ignoring the simple change in colors, there is little to no explanation for all of them--Synthesis completely breaks the game's lore and how science works, which leads to its nickname of 'space magic', and Control is something that you have been fighting against all game. Even after that, no matter what you do, the Normandy crashes. The mass relays are destroyed.
If the original outlook isn't bleak enough, once you start thinking about it, the entire ending goes from disappointing to holocaust-filled nightmare. Isolated colonies will start to starve, dying from lack of resources. That entire armada you just brought to earth will start killing each other, as there's clearly not enough resources or space for each species. Thane's story about the drell homeworld of Rakhana suddenly becomes prophetic, with people killing each other for crumbs of food and mouthfuls of water. There is no winning in this scenario. If this is all I have to look forward to, why play the games at all?
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities? The replay value is very small, and the endings are a huge factor to that, since you get the same ending no matter what you choose. However, I would argue that auto-dialog does not help matters--in previous games, you chose almost everything that Shepard says, allowing you to create your own character. In Mass Effect 3, Shepard will go off for minutes with no input from the player. S/he is their own person now, and I actually feel little motivation to play through with one specific Shepard, as her automatic dialog is contrary to how I had her act in the first two games.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples? If we ignore Mass Effect: Deception, Leng was a decent villain in the books and fairly consistent. It was his lack of lines and cutscene incompetence that brought him down in the actual game. I have little opinion on a Garrus and Tali romance, as it seems like a couple of throw-away lines and yet another piece of fanservice, as it was a popular beta paring. Joker's abandonment of Shepard, however, is a huge inconsistency, and one that makes absolutely no sense within the context of the ending. Even if he got cold feet, going against everything his character stands for, the other characters would never have let him flee. For the most part, that small part, combined with the way Jacob and Thane were treated (as seen in a previous question) seem like the most obvious examples of forcing a character to act contrary to their established personalities to further a plot.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3? The introduction of Mass Effect 3 is where it all begins. There is auto-dialog aplenty, only two dialog options, Shepard is railroaded into specific emotional reactions, and there was no trial, which was contrary to everything that had been stated up until the demo's release.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings? Yes. A text epilogue would be nice, but would not fix the broken logic of the star-child at the end, or the plot holes and out of character behavior. I paid for Broken Steel, and I will happily pay for a new ending once again.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)? It's a nice thought, but I do not in any way, shape or form believe this to be what the writers intended. This doesn't differ from the Retake Movement for me--if your fanbase chooses to believe it was all just a dream rather than take your endings at face value, that's just another sign that something is very wrong.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them? I purchased every story-based mission, and a friend of mine bought me an alternate apperance pack. I heard good things about the story DLC, and I love these characters; another mission with them is a treat.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry? Poor writing is poor writing, no matter what medium. This seems no different from someone spreading word of mouth about a bad movie--the price will drop, the studio might suffer, and things go on.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?[/quote] I deeply dislike the idea of Day 1 DLC, and the only reason I purchased it was because I bought the Collector's Edition before "From Ashes" was announced. This is another point for Retakers, and a worrying trend in the industry. If Bioware had avoided this by doing what they did with Dragon Age 2's Sebastian--upgrading anyone who pre-ordered before a certain date, allowing them to have him for free--I feel there would have been less of an uproar. That being said, having a prothean on your squad does seem like quite a big deal, and I wish this was handled differently.
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3? Yes, I have.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends? N/A
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise? Yes, multiple times.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game? While Ashley and Kaidan were romanced in ME1, my goal was to have my three Shepards stay loyal to their ME2 interests--Jack, Thane and Jacob. The treatment of the two males affected my enjoyment of the game--I felt as though I was being told I made the wrong choice, and my roleplaying options felt limited. There was no option to mourn Thane, and Shepard's lack of emotion in his death scene and aftermath felt particularly jarring. The treatment of Jacob felt out of character, and his romance was clearly an afterthought. While I wish for more time with Jack, she granted the achievement and was considered an option. The latter two were not, and felt shoved aside.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them? Bioware did an excellent job with making me care for each and every one of the characters; even if I disagreed with their views or their personalities clashed with my own, I felt an emotional attachment and wanted to save them all.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other? No. I do wish there were more options for renegades, and I dislike how some paragon options are obviously the better choice when the reverse is not common, but it didn't stop me from choosing renegade options or playing as a full renegade.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them? Tuchanka and ME2's suicide mission were by far my favorite missions in the series, and they both showcase choices and consequences quite well--if you do 'x', 'y' will happen and you will feel those effects. In both missions, there are varied results as well--you can walk away feeling triumphant and victorious, let a few people down but get the job done, or get the job done at any cost.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid? 'Art' is a subjective term, and while I do think video games as a whole can be seen as an art form, I believe that like any product that is sold to a mass market, it is fluid. Authors change portions of books based on fan response. Movies will change their endings depending on how well they're received by test audiences. With DLC available, games should be held to the same standards. Add in the fact that this is an active medium, with developers encouraging fans to shape their own world, and some level of communication and understanding should take place.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with? The character of Thane seems to be set to a default, which is discouraging. A non-loyal and loyal Thane are worlds apart, and a romanced Thane takes this one step further--one is clearly still suicidal, while the other is shedding tears and admitting his fear of death. Yet there are no talks of prolonging his life, or even an ability to question why he did not do so. He acts the same way if you did his mission or not, and from the way he is immediately forgotten by every character, it feels as though he was simply being written out. As his writer left Bioware, this is not a huge surprise.
A romanced Jacob seems off as well. A man of honor is now admitting to cheating on Shepard, showing little remorse, and there is no fallout from this. The entire thing is a mess, and points to writers wanting to axe his romance subplot, as it wasn't as popular as the others. It's understandable to an extent, but unfair, and executed quite poorly.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms? The Adam and Eve reference felt incredibly heavy-handed, considering we already had an Adam and Eve plot, and even a character with the nickname of Eve. The genophage missions did this idea of a fresh beginning and new start far better, as it was forshadowed since the very first game. The confusion on how Synthesis even works combined with the ham-fisted approach makes the whole thing seem forced.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending? There were moments in the game, such as the numerous references to Garrus' calibrations that felt like a nod to the fanbase. While some of it was quite enjoyable, there were moments where it was taken too far--yes, calibrations are funny. But bringing it up more than twice is overkill. I do not think they were trying to detract fans from thinking about the ending--I believe it was their way of attempting to connect, and while it succeeded many times, they may have been a bit overzealous.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity? Not at all. Tali and Garrus were bumped up to love interests in the second game, and were the only ME2 characters to return to the squad thanks to fan reaction. Mass Effect: Deception is in the process of being edited and changed thanks to fan outcry. Look to the last question--from all of the nods to the fanbase that was placed into the game, it would feel cheap not to change the ending, or at least acknowledge that many, many fans are upset and have the right to be.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different? The lack of explanation along with the logical fallicies makes stranding the crew quite a bit different. How did Joker get to the mass relay that quickly, and why would he abandon Shepard and the fight? How did you squadmates on earth get onto the Normandy? Why was this even necessary? Even without EDI, the idea of Adam and Eve and the crew discovering 'Eden' was unnecessary, and a huge blow to those who were invested in the characters. After all of that, they're stranded on a random planet, with quite unfortunate implications (where's the dextro food? How will they continue the species?) If they had landed on earth, it would have made the endings a bit easier to swallow. Not much, but every bit counts.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone? The Reapers were Lovecraftian in nature ever since the first dialog with Soverign, and it should have been left that way. The story is not about the Reapers--it's about Shepard, about the crew, about organics and synthetics and uniting the galaxy. In this situation, a simple villain works, and not every antagonist needs to be humanized and given a Freudian Excuse. We have the Illusive Man and Saren for that. By keeping the Lovecraftian vibe, you may get a few fans asking what the true motivations were and speculation on that end. By revealing an understandable and simplified explanation, you instead have fans rolling their eyes and losing the fear and awe that the Reapers once held. The antagonists lose their magic.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different? Mass Effect 3 is an interactive trilogy that is based on choices and consequences. You, the player character are Commander Shepard. You choose your sex, race, apperance, demeanor, love interest, friends, enemies, and how to shape the galaxy. The lore is explained well, the Codex is enormous, and up until the endings, plot holes existed but were understandable. When pushed to this level of involvement, fans will take things personally--Joker abandoning Shepard and making his way to the relay with no explanation isn't just confusing, but insulting.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat? Time and money constraints are my only guesses. That, or they assumed fans would be upset no matter what, and just threw something together. It's the sloppy photoshop job that is the most insulting, and she would have benefited from an actual in-game rendered face, even if I don't agree with how she looks.
As for Jessica Chobot and IGN, I don't think it matters if she did have an influence in the score of the game. The entire situation is uncomfortable, and should not be repeated. If Freddie Prinze Jr. had a connection with IGN and they still cast him as Vega, it would be mildly uncomfortable, but understandable--the man is an actor, after all. Jessica Chobot is not, and the strangest move of all is that Jessica Chobot does not play Diana Allers, but she is Diana Allers. She is given a face scan, no character developement, and seems to only exist for sex appeal. Money should not have been wasted on this, and been funneled into a more appropriate avenue.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game? I have beaten it once, reloaded the final mission once and stopped before the final choice, and have not managed to get past Rannoch on my second playthrough.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion? As a Lost fan and someone who played the original Neverwinter Nights 2 literal 'rocks fall, everyone dies' ending, I can say that I have never held such hatred for an ending before. As stated earlier, this is a series where personal investment is pushed. A theme has been triumphing against the odds, and yet we're left with listening to a brand-new character give a paradoxial explanation for the Reapers, and then give us three options to finish the game. Ignoring the simple change in colors, there is little to no explanation for all of them--Synthesis completely breaks the game's lore and how science works, which leads to its nickname of 'space magic', and Control is something that you have been fighting against all game. Even after that, no matter what you do, the Normandy crashes. The mass relays are destroyed.
If the original outlook isn't bleak enough, once you start thinking about it, the entire ending goes from disappointing to holocaust-filled nightmare. Isolated colonies will start to starve, dying from lack of resources. That entire armada you just brought to earth will start killing each other, as there's clearly not enough resources or space for each species. Thane's story about the drell homeworld of Rakhana suddenly becomes prophetic, with people killing each other for crumbs of food and mouthfuls of water. There is no winning in this scenario. If this is all I have to look forward to, why play the games at all?
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities? The replay value is very small, and the endings are a huge factor to that, since you get the same ending no matter what you choose. However, I would argue that auto-dialog does not help matters--in previous games, you chose almost everything that Shepard says, allowing you to create your own character. In Mass Effect 3, Shepard will go off for minutes with no input from the player. S/he is their own person now, and I actually feel little motivation to play through with one specific Shepard, as her automatic dialog is contrary to how I had her act in the first two games.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples? If we ignore Mass Effect: Deception, Leng was a decent villain in the books and fairly consistent. It was his lack of lines and cutscene incompetence that brought him down in the actual game. I have little opinion on a Garrus and Tali romance, as it seems like a couple of throw-away lines and yet another piece of fanservice, as it was a popular beta paring. Joker's abandonment of Shepard, however, is a huge inconsistency, and one that makes absolutely no sense within the context of the ending. Even if he got cold feet, going against everything his character stands for, the other characters would never have let him flee. For the most part, that small part, combined with the way Jacob and Thane were treated (as seen in a previous question) seem like the most obvious examples of forcing a character to act contrary to their established personalities to further a plot.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3? The introduction of Mass Effect 3 is where it all begins. There is auto-dialog aplenty, only two dialog options, Shepard is railroaded into specific emotional reactions, and there was no trial, which was contrary to everything that had been stated up until the demo's release.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings? Yes. A text epilogue would be nice, but would not fix the broken logic of the star-child at the end, or the plot holes and out of character behavior. I paid for Broken Steel, and I will happily pay for a new ending once again.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)? It's a nice thought, but I do not in any way, shape or form believe this to be what the writers intended. This doesn't differ from the Retake Movement for me--if your fanbase chooses to believe it was all just a dream rather than take your endings at face value, that's just another sign that something is very wrong.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them? I purchased every story-based mission, and a friend of mine bought me an alternate apperance pack. I heard good things about the story DLC, and I love these characters; another mission with them is a treat.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry? Poor writing is poor writing, no matter what medium. This seems no different from someone spreading word of mouth about a bad movie--the price will drop, the studio might suffer, and things go on.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?[/quote] I deeply dislike the idea of Day 1 DLC, and the only reason I purchased it was because I bought the Collector's Edition before "From Ashes" was announced. This is another point for Retakers, and a worrying trend in the industry. If Bioware had avoided this by doing what they did with Dragon Age 2's Sebastian--upgrading anyone who pre-ordered before a certain date, allowing them to have him for free--I feel there would have been less of an uproar. That being said, having a prothean on your squad does seem like quite a big deal, and I wish this was handled differently.
Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 05 avril 2012 - 07:40 .
#28
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:38
MrGone
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- Members
- 551 messages
Screw it. I'll bite.
[quote]Infinityphoenix wrote...
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3? [/quote]
Yes I have.
[quote]
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends? [/quote]
I did, and yes I do.
[quote]
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise? [/quote]
Yes I have.
[quote]
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game? [/quote]
Why does this question matter? I mean it seems VERY arbitrary and baiting.
To answer it, for my first and arguably MAIN character, Liara-Nobody-Liara as a MaleShepard. As to enjoyment, I found it interesting, and mostly did it out o curiosity in the first game, as I had tried to romance Ashley, but apparently did something wrong and was stuck with Liara. I said OK, why not? then decided to roleplay this in the subsequent games a small amount. It did affect my enjoyment, because I felt the romantic scenes were solid, especially in ME3, also, I became invested in ME2 as I like the character Jack, and spent a lot of time getting to know her. I then was torn at the end of that game, between being "faithful" to Liara, and going with Jack. It actually got me into the character quite a bit.
Overall, I realized that the idea of a romance subplot, a common thread in many films and books, has a lot of power in a game, even one where this isn't the primary point of it. I think the execution of the concept here gave me a much greater appreciation for the portrayal of romance in games AS a subplot, especially when compared to a game like Harvest Moon 64, which I remember having a less developed version of a similar idea, though it was emphasized with more importance.
Does that answer your nebulous, kind of suspicious question?
[quote]
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them? [/quote]
*were* the overlying stories.
Lolwut?
Huh? Saving them? This question makes no sense. You aren't interested in saving the characters during the suicide mission. You're trying to use them for the purpose of the mission. You might feel bad if one them dies and want to replay it to get a different outcome, but that was not the goal of the mission itself, which this poorly written question implies.
Are you seriously trying to pass yourself off as a student? If you are, you seem a poor student. This is totally just for your own amusement isn't it?
[quote]
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other? [/quote]
"force", not "forced" your tenses are wrong.
You are asking a question out of order in regards to time. Did the "reactions" (outcomes is better word choice here) of renegade choices "force" me to play one way or another?
If you mean, "did I read the implied text, make a decision off what it seemed to indicate what I would do, and that this influenced my decisions?" then yes. Of course. That's like, the point of the game.
If you mean "did the outcomes of choices I haven't made yet affect making those choices before I made them?" then you make no sense.
You also only point to renegade. Why? I made several choices because the PAragon option seemed preferable.
And if you are reffering to interrupts, I hit all of them except when I thought it would lead me into romance with a character I did not want to pursue. Like the paragon interrupts with Steve Cortez, and a couple that happened with my Femshep and Kaiden after I hooked up with Garrus. But I hit all of the rest of them out of curiosity.
[quote]
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them? [/quote]
I like all of the memories you gain from Prothean flashbacks in ME 1, 2, and the From Ashes DLC. Their common theme I think . . . was that they were related to the Prothean subplot.
Oh I'm sorry, did you mean "moments" ? Because memories are fairly specific. The game has memories in them, as scenes.
Really, my favorite moments? Well I really liked rushing the conduit on Ilos in the Mako. It had great music, it was tense and dramatic and felt very well constructed.
I also really enjoyed the planning that occurred for the Suicide Mission, laying out who did what and making calls. It felt like I was truly a commander of a military unit for a mission, and I especially enjoyed watching how those decisions played out.
After that, I think my favorite specific moment becomes more nebulous. Um, I REALLY liked the final confrontations with Saren at the end of ME1. From both the conversations, and convincing him to kill himself, to the actual boss battle, which I quit enjoyed, I felt it was a very satisfying finale (in fact that entire sequence was).
Other than that all of these moments are IN Mass Effect, I see no specific connections.
[quote]
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid? [/quote]
See, you should probably just start here. It's direct and the rest of the previous questions feel totally manipulative.
Yes, I do believe games are a form of art. Specifically I feel virtual creations using computers as tools are a medium of expression and that games are one form within that medium. For example you could create a virtual "painting" or "sculpture" in Maya, those are pieces of digital/virtual art as well.
Art is completely fluid until the artist stops working on it, with the specifics varying by the art. Basically, I abide by the line "art is never finished, only abandoned".
That being said, I thnk the current state video games are in can only be considered commercial pop art at best. They are entirely driven by the profit motive, and meant to appeal to a LARGE number of viewers, similar to Warhol's factory days.
This is a very complex issue full of nuance and I could write a paper to truly express my point on it, but I'll move on.
[quote]
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with? [/quote]
I guarantee they did. That's the process. I've written things with people before, lines change.
Oh wait. You're asking if I think they wrote or portrayed certain NPCs, but out of character. Just awkwardly.
Ehhh. Not really? I suppose. I mean, I think, for the most part, every action the characters take is justified in-game, with a few exceptions. I also can see where they pretty obviously meant for other options to occur at some point but smoothed over the story/branches from their original intent.
For example, Jacob. I can see where they probably meant for his marriage to that Cerberus doctor to be his outcome if you didn't romance him, or did, but didn't do his loyalty mission, and that he would probably had had a different reaction in place if you did romance him. However I can see that at some point, someone said, "eh, this works well enough, and we can't make him a squad member anyway" so they used what they had and made it the default. However, this is within the right of the writers/designers, and it mostly works.
The only charater that is out of character is the Star Child. But he is out of charater with the series itself.
Also, while I am disappointed with the path they took the Illusive Man, and opted simply to turn him into Saren 2: Electric Boogaloo rather than give him more complexity or resilience toward the end - or give us the option to team up with him instead of Anderson - I wouldn't say he was written out of character, no.
[quote]
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms? [/quote]
It made sense, as in, I understood it. However, I do think the organic/sythetic point was far too overdone in the end of the game, especially as it was never the main theme of the previos two games, and for MOST of ME3, seemed more like a subplot for both Joker/EDI and the Quarian/Geth.
[quote]
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending? [/quote]
No more or less than ME2, which seemed to have more than first perhaps.
The rest of this question is insane.
If I think there were more humorous moments it "was to cut the" theme of war and death in the game? What? An "attempt to detract fans from overthinking the ending?"
You're implying that they purposefully inserted jokes in the rest of the game so that it would, what, cushion the blow of their terrible ending, which they therefore would have known was terrible, and this was all some malicious trolling on BioWare's part?
That's paranoia AND a totally leading question.
[quote]
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity? [/quote]
No I do not. In fact, I think it would save it. I think what is here is perhaps the decent basis for an ending, but poorly thought out and executed even worse. It doesn't match the quality of what they did the with majority of the game's story, and in fact, they have a prime opportunity here to get another shot at making their game better than they left it upon going gold.
[quote]
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different? [/quote]
What? Huh? Are you asking what makes the ending scene of the crew crashing on some jungle planet different from say, Thane dying to his wounds fighting Kai Leng? Is that what you're asking? I'm unsure, this quesion is weirdly structured or thought out.
If that's what you're asking:
I do think its different, as the last I saw or knew, all of those characters were on Earth, and then without explanation they were moved to the ship which was fleeing the blue beam that as far as I knew, only affected Reapers when I selected control. It literally made ZERO sense. Then the game stopped while I was sitting there confused still trying to process this nonsense.
Whereas with Thane dying, for instance, I saw what caused the death, and then they took a moment to create a scene with him actually dying that was touching. It fit nicely and again . . . MADE SENSE. That is the problem, but it's obviously something you don't understand since half your questions don't make sense either.
[quote]
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone? [/quote]
Do you mean the Reapers? Saren? The Illusive Man? Matriarch Benezia? That one merc leader? The other merc leader? There are a LOT of antagonists in this series, from warlords to criminals to Cthulu-like Cyborg space squid. BE SPECIFIC.
If you mean the Reapers (I think you mean the reapers) I think they should have probably left it alone unless they had a REALLY strong idea, and created a pocket of time where we could explore it in depth.
Here's an idea I had, that I think is pretty strong: The Reapers are trying to create god by being a form of "devil". Basically they actually have evolved to a form of power that is so unstoppable in a materialistic universe, but they are dissappointed with the lack of an afterlife, hence why they figured out a way to live forever as machines. So they have this cycle as a test to see if any of the races they destroy can create a method or power to stop them, knowing that it would have to be something beyond them, and since they are the zenith of science, "beyond them" would literally be magic or a miracle of some kind. Essentially it is the same motivation that Mr. Glass had in unbreakable, but on a philosophical level and at many magnitudes of order higher. BUT it doesn't have to be that, just something that wouldn't be circular logic that would explain why they do things would be nice.
[quote]
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different? [/quote]
You give no examples as to what other franchises so I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to. What other franchises? I cannot make a comparison if you don't give me an example.
[quote]
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat? [/quote]
Jesus Christ. Are you like, high? Drunk? Seriously? You have THREE questions here. If you're going to split questions up on a numbered list, you shouldn't bunch them up like this! What is wrong with you?
Also, these are ALL totally loaded questions that reveal your prejudice more than anything, and the first "why didn't they make a 3D model for Tali's face" is so far out of the scope of the knowledge that the only thing I can do is speculate.
A) I have no idea why they didn't model Tali;s face. My guess, they wussed out, decided they weren't going to show it, then realized it was too much a tease, figured out a design to make "canon" but then didn't have the time to implement it, and so did the photoshop so there would be something.
B)Tali is not "synonymous" with the franchise itself. Shepard maybe. But Tali is NOT the first hing people think of when most folks think Mass Effect, other than possibly the idea of "blue alien boobs" none of the NPCs are probably ranked high enough in the public conciousness to make an impact as strong as just the title of the game itself and the Shepard model that's been in all the marketing.
C) Do I think Jessica's involvement had an influence? Not at all. Other media outlets wouldn't be affected, and IGN wouldn't be dumb enough to open themselves to a lawsuit like that. I think the people reviewing Mass Effect at IGN are just bad at their jobs and give everything simple product reviews rather than any critical analysis.
D) I don't think the "retake movement" is using this presumption. I think YOU are.
[quote]
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
[/quote]
I have beaten the game once, and done about a quarter of another playthrough with my femshep before lending to a friend who I have lent my copies of 1 and 2 before, so he could know and carry his shep to the end.
[quote]
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
[/quote]
It's crap. The California Literary Review review represents my opinion exactly. If you want to know more, read that review. Theo nly thing I would add to that is I feel it's due to the creatives on the project misjudging their time and being forced to produce by a date with them not being finished by then.
[quote]
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
[/quote]
Again, you have a totally biased and loaded question here. Yes, obviously the the ending affects replayability (one word), the stuff about BioWare's intentions is rampant speculation, and I think they added in MP because EA forced or convinced them to, because EA thinks everything should have MP because a couple years ago it was a huge buzz around GDC and everything you see in game development can be traced back to what was said at GDC two years prior.
In this case though it turned out to be true, as the MP, while most likely contributing to a shoddier single player campaign due to split resource allocation, is actually pretty fun.
[quote]
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
[/quote]
Not even answering this. This is their story, if you you think a character "should" be doing something else go masturbate to some fan fiction you write.
[quote]
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
[/quote]
At the beginning of the game, the dialogue is weak and their original intention of a court trial, both made more sense and would have been a smoother start to the game. The pacing and dialogu improve with the Mars mission and are for the most part solid until the Conduit beam onto the Citadel where things fall apart for a billion reasons mentioned everywhere else on the internet.
Also, what's up with the gap? Formatting gotcha down?
[quote]
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
[/quote]
I have no idea what I would or would not pay for until I know what they are going to do and announce it specifically.
That being said:
A) I know unless they address the issue, I will not buy another DLC or future BioWare Product, and will write a letter telling them so and why.
I am good on this, as I did something similar with MArvel Comics after One More Day, which after that debacle,made me choose to never buy another Marvel comic book and I have maintained this.
C) I am strongly inclined to have anything that affects the ending be distributed for free, as I do not see it as an expansion, but a recall.
[quote]
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)? [/quote]
I'm not with Indoctrination Theory, and believe it is a case of the fans making more sense out of something than is actually present. I don't think this is BioWare purposely creating speculation as you imply ,and feel that without the IT (as its called) the voices against BioWare would be much louder as there would be more of them.
I just think people are people and we love to create patterns out of randomness and apply them. This is how religions get started.
However, I do think BioWare could take advantage of this, and it might be wise to do so. If they do, I would hope they tell us that they took it from the community because I don't think I could believe them if they said this was "all a part of the plan" because the "plan" is far too much a risk for such a risk averse corporation like EA to take.
[quote]
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them? [/quote]
I did buy all of them, other than the weapon/armor packs, and the reason should be obvious - I wanted what they contained.
[quote]
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
[/quote]
This is pure speculation that is out of the bounds of anyone but an expert in the financial sector related to video games. Unless Pachter comments on this I would take anything anyone says to these questions with a seriously large grain of salt.
Do I hope this will make other developers try to improve their narratives and writing? Yes. I am a writer and would love to work in gaming. This could open up jobs.
[quote]
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?[/quote]
I did buy the DLC, because I felt it was a necessary element. I do think its removal was uneccessary and probably the fault of the poor scheduling that I think caused the other rushed elements of the game, such as the overall buggier experience compared to the previous two games.
Yes it does give more fuel to consumer anger, but not perhaps to anything ending related, as it is a serperate issue. If anything, it obsfucates the ending issue.
Also I want to point out, most of these questions are bad, and you should feel bad for having posted them.
I respond in earnest, only in the off chance hope that you are a researcher and English is not your native tongue and that I'm just being a jerk, but all digns indicate that rather you are simply trolling to troll or a fanboy doing this for amusement.
[quote]Infinityphoenix wrote...
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3? [/quote]
Yes I have.
[quote]
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends? [/quote]
I did, and yes I do.
[quote]
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise? [/quote]
Yes I have.
[quote]
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game? [/quote]
Why does this question matter? I mean it seems VERY arbitrary and baiting.
To answer it, for my first and arguably MAIN character, Liara-Nobody-Liara as a MaleShepard. As to enjoyment, I found it interesting, and mostly did it out o curiosity in the first game, as I had tried to romance Ashley, but apparently did something wrong and was stuck with Liara. I said OK, why not? then decided to roleplay this in the subsequent games a small amount. It did affect my enjoyment, because I felt the romantic scenes were solid, especially in ME3, also, I became invested in ME2 as I like the character Jack, and spent a lot of time getting to know her. I then was torn at the end of that game, between being "faithful" to Liara, and going with Jack. It actually got me into the character quite a bit.
Overall, I realized that the idea of a romance subplot, a common thread in many films and books, has a lot of power in a game, even one where this isn't the primary point of it. I think the execution of the concept here gave me a much greater appreciation for the portrayal of romance in games AS a subplot, especially when compared to a game like Harvest Moon 64, which I remember having a less developed version of a similar idea, though it was emphasized with more importance.
Does that answer your nebulous, kind of suspicious question?
[quote]
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them? [/quote]
*were* the overlying stories.
Lolwut?
Huh? Saving them? This question makes no sense. You aren't interested in saving the characters during the suicide mission. You're trying to use them for the purpose of the mission. You might feel bad if one them dies and want to replay it to get a different outcome, but that was not the goal of the mission itself, which this poorly written question implies.
Are you seriously trying to pass yourself off as a student? If you are, you seem a poor student. This is totally just for your own amusement isn't it?
[quote]
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other? [/quote]
"force", not "forced" your tenses are wrong.
You are asking a question out of order in regards to time. Did the "reactions" (outcomes is better word choice here) of renegade choices "force" me to play one way or another?
If you mean, "did I read the implied text, make a decision off what it seemed to indicate what I would do, and that this influenced my decisions?" then yes. Of course. That's like, the point of the game.
If you mean "did the outcomes of choices I haven't made yet affect making those choices before I made them?" then you make no sense.
You also only point to renegade. Why? I made several choices because the PAragon option seemed preferable.
And if you are reffering to interrupts, I hit all of them except when I thought it would lead me into romance with a character I did not want to pursue. Like the paragon interrupts with Steve Cortez, and a couple that happened with my Femshep and Kaiden after I hooked up with Garrus. But I hit all of the rest of them out of curiosity.
[quote]
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them? [/quote]
I like all of the memories you gain from Prothean flashbacks in ME 1, 2, and the From Ashes DLC. Their common theme I think . . . was that they were related to the Prothean subplot.
Oh I'm sorry, did you mean "moments" ? Because memories are fairly specific. The game has memories in them, as scenes.
Really, my favorite moments? Well I really liked rushing the conduit on Ilos in the Mako. It had great music, it was tense and dramatic and felt very well constructed.
I also really enjoyed the planning that occurred for the Suicide Mission, laying out who did what and making calls. It felt like I was truly a commander of a military unit for a mission, and I especially enjoyed watching how those decisions played out.
After that, I think my favorite specific moment becomes more nebulous. Um, I REALLY liked the final confrontations with Saren at the end of ME1. From both the conversations, and convincing him to kill himself, to the actual boss battle, which I quit enjoyed, I felt it was a very satisfying finale (in fact that entire sequence was).
Other than that all of these moments are IN Mass Effect, I see no specific connections.
[quote]
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid? [/quote]
See, you should probably just start here. It's direct and the rest of the previous questions feel totally manipulative.
Yes, I do believe games are a form of art. Specifically I feel virtual creations using computers as tools are a medium of expression and that games are one form within that medium. For example you could create a virtual "painting" or "sculpture" in Maya, those are pieces of digital/virtual art as well.
Art is completely fluid until the artist stops working on it, with the specifics varying by the art. Basically, I abide by the line "art is never finished, only abandoned".
That being said, I thnk the current state video games are in can only be considered commercial pop art at best. They are entirely driven by the profit motive, and meant to appeal to a LARGE number of viewers, similar to Warhol's factory days.
This is a very complex issue full of nuance and I could write a paper to truly express my point on it, but I'll move on.
[quote]
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with? [/quote]
I guarantee they did. That's the process. I've written things with people before, lines change.
Oh wait. You're asking if I think they wrote or portrayed certain NPCs, but out of character. Just awkwardly.
Ehhh. Not really? I suppose. I mean, I think, for the most part, every action the characters take is justified in-game, with a few exceptions. I also can see where they pretty obviously meant for other options to occur at some point but smoothed over the story/branches from their original intent.
For example, Jacob. I can see where they probably meant for his marriage to that Cerberus doctor to be his outcome if you didn't romance him, or did, but didn't do his loyalty mission, and that he would probably had had a different reaction in place if you did romance him. However I can see that at some point, someone said, "eh, this works well enough, and we can't make him a squad member anyway" so they used what they had and made it the default. However, this is within the right of the writers/designers, and it mostly works.
The only charater that is out of character is the Star Child. But he is out of charater with the series itself.
Also, while I am disappointed with the path they took the Illusive Man, and opted simply to turn him into Saren 2: Electric Boogaloo rather than give him more complexity or resilience toward the end - or give us the option to team up with him instead of Anderson - I wouldn't say he was written out of character, no.
[quote]
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms? [/quote]
It made sense, as in, I understood it. However, I do think the organic/sythetic point was far too overdone in the end of the game, especially as it was never the main theme of the previos two games, and for MOST of ME3, seemed more like a subplot for both Joker/EDI and the Quarian/Geth.
[quote]
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending? [/quote]
No more or less than ME2, which seemed to have more than first perhaps.
The rest of this question is insane.
If I think there were more humorous moments it "was to cut the" theme of war and death in the game? What? An "attempt to detract fans from overthinking the ending?"
You're implying that they purposefully inserted jokes in the rest of the game so that it would, what, cushion the blow of their terrible ending, which they therefore would have known was terrible, and this was all some malicious trolling on BioWare's part?
That's paranoia AND a totally leading question.
[quote]
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity? [/quote]
No I do not. In fact, I think it would save it. I think what is here is perhaps the decent basis for an ending, but poorly thought out and executed even worse. It doesn't match the quality of what they did the with majority of the game's story, and in fact, they have a prime opportunity here to get another shot at making their game better than they left it upon going gold.
[quote]
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different? [/quote]
What? Huh? Are you asking what makes the ending scene of the crew crashing on some jungle planet different from say, Thane dying to his wounds fighting Kai Leng? Is that what you're asking? I'm unsure, this quesion is weirdly structured or thought out.
If that's what you're asking:
I do think its different, as the last I saw or knew, all of those characters were on Earth, and then without explanation they were moved to the ship which was fleeing the blue beam that as far as I knew, only affected Reapers when I selected control. It literally made ZERO sense. Then the game stopped while I was sitting there confused still trying to process this nonsense.
Whereas with Thane dying, for instance, I saw what caused the death, and then they took a moment to create a scene with him actually dying that was touching. It fit nicely and again . . . MADE SENSE. That is the problem, but it's obviously something you don't understand since half your questions don't make sense either.
[quote]
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone? [/quote]
Do you mean the Reapers? Saren? The Illusive Man? Matriarch Benezia? That one merc leader? The other merc leader? There are a LOT of antagonists in this series, from warlords to criminals to Cthulu-like Cyborg space squid. BE SPECIFIC.
If you mean the Reapers (I think you mean the reapers) I think they should have probably left it alone unless they had a REALLY strong idea, and created a pocket of time where we could explore it in depth.
Here's an idea I had, that I think is pretty strong: The Reapers are trying to create god by being a form of "devil". Basically they actually have evolved to a form of power that is so unstoppable in a materialistic universe, but they are dissappointed with the lack of an afterlife, hence why they figured out a way to live forever as machines. So they have this cycle as a test to see if any of the races they destroy can create a method or power to stop them, knowing that it would have to be something beyond them, and since they are the zenith of science, "beyond them" would literally be magic or a miracle of some kind. Essentially it is the same motivation that Mr. Glass had in unbreakable, but on a philosophical level and at many magnitudes of order higher. BUT it doesn't have to be that, just something that wouldn't be circular logic that would explain why they do things would be nice.
[quote]
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different? [/quote]
You give no examples as to what other franchises so I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to. What other franchises? I cannot make a comparison if you don't give me an example.
[quote]
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat? [/quote]
Jesus Christ. Are you like, high? Drunk? Seriously? You have THREE questions here. If you're going to split questions up on a numbered list, you shouldn't bunch them up like this! What is wrong with you?
Also, these are ALL totally loaded questions that reveal your prejudice more than anything, and the first "why didn't they make a 3D model for Tali's face" is so far out of the scope of the knowledge that the only thing I can do is speculate.
A) I have no idea why they didn't model Tali;s face. My guess, they wussed out, decided they weren't going to show it, then realized it was too much a tease, figured out a design to make "canon" but then didn't have the time to implement it, and so did the photoshop so there would be something.
B)Tali is not "synonymous" with the franchise itself. Shepard maybe. But Tali is NOT the first hing people think of when most folks think Mass Effect, other than possibly the idea of "blue alien boobs" none of the NPCs are probably ranked high enough in the public conciousness to make an impact as strong as just the title of the game itself and the Shepard model that's been in all the marketing.
C) Do I think Jessica's involvement had an influence? Not at all. Other media outlets wouldn't be affected, and IGN wouldn't be dumb enough to open themselves to a lawsuit like that. I think the people reviewing Mass Effect at IGN are just bad at their jobs and give everything simple product reviews rather than any critical analysis.
D) I don't think the "retake movement" is using this presumption. I think YOU are.
[quote]
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
[/quote]
I have beaten the game once, and done about a quarter of another playthrough with my femshep before lending to a friend who I have lent my copies of 1 and 2 before, so he could know and carry his shep to the end.
[quote]
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
[/quote]
It's crap. The California Literary Review review represents my opinion exactly. If you want to know more, read that review. Theo nly thing I would add to that is I feel it's due to the creatives on the project misjudging their time and being forced to produce by a date with them not being finished by then.
[quote]
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
[/quote]
Again, you have a totally biased and loaded question here. Yes, obviously the the ending affects replayability (one word), the stuff about BioWare's intentions is rampant speculation, and I think they added in MP because EA forced or convinced them to, because EA thinks everything should have MP because a couple years ago it was a huge buzz around GDC and everything you see in game development can be traced back to what was said at GDC two years prior.
In this case though it turned out to be true, as the MP, while most likely contributing to a shoddier single player campaign due to split resource allocation, is actually pretty fun.
[quote]
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
[/quote]
Not even answering this. This is their story, if you you think a character "should" be doing something else go masturbate to some fan fiction you write.
[quote]
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
[/quote]
At the beginning of the game, the dialogue is weak and their original intention of a court trial, both made more sense and would have been a smoother start to the game. The pacing and dialogu improve with the Mars mission and are for the most part solid until the Conduit beam onto the Citadel where things fall apart for a billion reasons mentioned everywhere else on the internet.
Also, what's up with the gap? Formatting gotcha down?
[quote]
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
[/quote]
I have no idea what I would or would not pay for until I know what they are going to do and announce it specifically.
That being said:
A) I know unless they address the issue, I will not buy another DLC or future BioWare Product, and will write a letter telling them so and why.
I am good on this, as I did something similar with MArvel Comics after One More Day, which after that debacle,made me choose to never buy another Marvel comic book and I have maintained this.C) I am strongly inclined to have anything that affects the ending be distributed for free, as I do not see it as an expansion, but a recall.
[quote]
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)? [/quote]
I'm not with Indoctrination Theory, and believe it is a case of the fans making more sense out of something than is actually present. I don't think this is BioWare purposely creating speculation as you imply ,and feel that without the IT (as its called) the voices against BioWare would be much louder as there would be more of them.
I just think people are people and we love to create patterns out of randomness and apply them. This is how religions get started.
However, I do think BioWare could take advantage of this, and it might be wise to do so. If they do, I would hope they tell us that they took it from the community because I don't think I could believe them if they said this was "all a part of the plan" because the "plan" is far too much a risk for such a risk averse corporation like EA to take.
[quote]
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them? [/quote]
I did buy all of them, other than the weapon/armor packs, and the reason should be obvious - I wanted what they contained.
[quote]
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
[/quote]
This is pure speculation that is out of the bounds of anyone but an expert in the financial sector related to video games. Unless Pachter comments on this I would take anything anyone says to these questions with a seriously large grain of salt.
Do I hope this will make other developers try to improve their narratives and writing? Yes. I am a writer and would love to work in gaming. This could open up jobs.
[quote]
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?[/quote]
I did buy the DLC, because I felt it was a necessary element. I do think its removal was uneccessary and probably the fault of the poor scheduling that I think caused the other rushed elements of the game, such as the overall buggier experience compared to the previous two games.
Yes it does give more fuel to consumer anger, but not perhaps to anything ending related, as it is a serperate issue. If anything, it obsfucates the ending issue.
Also I want to point out, most of these questions are bad, and you should feel bad for having posted them.
I respond in earnest, only in the off chance hope that you are a researcher and English is not your native tongue and that I'm just being a jerk, but all digns indicate that rather you are simply trolling to troll or a fanboy doing this for amusement.
#29
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:45
Zolt51
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- Members
- 1 262 messages
You should to that as a google form, way easier to collate info.
Infinityphoenix wrote...
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes. Twice.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
NA
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1. Liara. Kaidan. Ashley.
ME2. Tali. Garrus. Liara once Shadow Broker came out.
I find Liara's relatinship to Shepard in ME3 a bit strained and artificial at first, but they have better chemistry and some excellent lines towards the end. Garrus romance feels a bit forced, I have to say that I prefer it as a bromance.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
> I saved them because I'm a completionist. And because I could.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
> I was reluctant to take renegade choices at first. But later found out that they were just as well developed as the paragon ones.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
> ME1 the choice on Virmire. Hard decision.
> ME2.. bringing Legion aboard the Quarian liveship. Hilarity ensues, but some serious discussions too.
> ME3 Either the choice on Tuchanka (really HARD decision) or drunk Tali.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
> I'm not interested in debating that question. I don't believe someone who created something should be forced to change it if they don't want to.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
> I don't know what you are talking about. I haven't seen credible evidence of last minute rewriting that would affect the game in a major way.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
> I don't see an Adam and Eve reference. I chose the Control ending. IF you're talking about the Synthesis ending, it's only a vague reference at best and I wouldn't think anything of it.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
> ME has always had great humor, but ME3 really topped it. It was not an attempt to distract fan from the ending, you're retarded if you think that. It was just an attempt to make the game better, and lighten up the story a bit between episodes of tension and loss. ME3 was much darker overall than previous games. That's the tone they wanted to set.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
> I don't believe in big words like Artistic Integrity. I think game developpers should make games the way they want them to be. If fans happen to have good suggestions and the devs like them too that's cool. But I think developers should make games for themselves first. If millions of other people happen to enjoy them, that's a happy coincidence. When someone does a job, especially a creative job and they're forced to do something they don't really want to, you can always feel it in the end result.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
> I have to say I don't understand how the crew came to be stranded in the first place. I'll be happy to have an explanation for that. Else, I just won't think too hard about it.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
> Yes, I think they made the right choice. They had teased us before with "we are your salvation through extermination" and this kind of remarks. Not delivering on that would have been a mistake. People are wrong if they expect the explanation to make sense in *our* context. Reapers see the universe very differently. That's what makes them the villains.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
> ME3 did well commercially too.
Let me guess. Said franchises happened before the rise of social media?
ME3 ending reminded me mostly of "Fall of Hyperion", which I liked, so that's cool.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
> So it's kind of lame, sure. Get in an uproar over that? Is is worth it?
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
> Bought on March 6 through origin. Just finished my second play through last night. Now I will lay SP to rest until some DLCs come out.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
> Liked it overall. Good atmosphere and music. Liked the idea of the relays being destroyed. Didn't like the Normandy scene. I felt empty afterwards sure, but that happens to me whenever I finish a story I'm really invested in. Happens rarely with games, but it's much more common with really good books, especially the end of a long running series.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
> If anything, ME3 is better on the replayability side, the Tuchanka mission alone was justification for replaying the game. The ending does not add much to replayability, but also does not detract from it.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
> Kai Leng is one of the characters that we love to hate. That's his role. He's a nasty, mean, nerdy assassin wannabee. I thought the Garrus and Tali pairing was GREAT! Garrus is my bro forever, I'm happy for him.
Joker running away, I just can't even begin to explain the scene so I just ignore it.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
> Didn't notice any such thing.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
> Would be OK with some free, shadow broker style text. I don't think Bioware plans to voice anything at the moment.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
> Bioware has made it clear already that they don't have a "real" ending planned. Indoc people are just in denial, and saying "it was all a dream" is the WORST kind of ending I can imagine.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
> I bought Shadow Broker, well worth it. Kasumi: OK cool character but no more.. Arrival: underwhelming. I did not buy Overlord.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
> Stock prices are still in the 16-17$ bracket as they have been in the last few months. They have risen and fallen several times within that bracket since ME3 came out. If you're interested in that sort of thing, I recommend you watch out for the EA Q4 financial report, which will come out on May 1.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
> Javik's role is not crucial. I had some trouble activating the DLC and only recruited him very late. The game did not feel incomplete in any way despite that. Javik's banter alone on the other hand, is well worth $10. And the reason they were able to have such banter is precisely because they made this DLC as part of the main production cycle. Kasumi and Zaeed by comparison, felt like intruders on the Normandy.
Modifié par Zolt51, 05 avril 2012 - 07:56 .
#30
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:47
Joccaren
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- Members
- 1 130 messages
Section 1:
1. Yes
2. I have played, and I know how the trilogy ends
3. Yes, multiple times over [At least 7 playthroughs of each]
4. It changed dependent on Playthrough. First was Ash, then Miranda, then Tali and I'm planning on doing a Liara one sometime. No, it did not affect my enjoyment. Up until ME3 all the Romances I felt were done well. In ME3, it felt a bit rushed and forced at times however.
5. I'm not sure what you mean here. If you mean 'Did you save them because you felt invested in their character's plot archs, and wanted to find out how they ended' to an extent - yes. To another extent, they were my friends, and I don't let my friends die. [From both an RP and RL perspective]
6. No. I RPed my characters, and they accepted the consequences of their actions. I knew Renegade options were as likely to backfire as Paragon ones, but that was irrelevant as my characters had no knowledge of how their choices would affect things, they just knew what they thought was right. My characters made decisions off their beliefs, not off what the consequences would be.
7. Saving the Destiny Ascension. Fighting through the Collector base, and returning unscathed. Tuchanka in ME3.
Common themes that I can see:
Hope, and the ability to overcome impossible odds: The Alliance defeated the Geth attacking the Ascension, and then went on to defeat Sovereign as well - even though sacrificing the fleets to save the Ascension was supposed to be a risk that your squadmate made it sound like it would lead to Sovereign winning. The Suicide Mission was a Suicide Mission - noone was getting out of there alive. For me, everyone did. I overcame impossible odds and succeeded, without sacrificing anyone. On Tuchanka I took on a full fledge Reaper on foot, and won. In addition, I cured the Genophage and overcame a millennia of prejudice against the Krogan, proceeding to save them from extinction, which then lead to a turn in the tide of the fight for Palavan as Numerous Reapers simply exploded - told to me by the Codex that they had Nukes bought by the Krogan smuggled onto them by Turians about to get processed, who then detonated them to save Palavan.
Sacrifice for Victory: I had to sacrifice the Alliance fleet to save the Destiny Ascension. In the Suicide Mission, it was entirely possible crew members would sacrifice their lives for the cause, but thanks to my great leadership that wasn't necessary. On Tuchanka I had to sacrifice Mordin for the Krogan.
Choice and Consequence: My choice either saved the Destiny Ascension at the cost of Alliance cruisers - 20 if I remember correctly - or sacrificed the Destiny Ascension and Council for the Alliance ships. My choice Changed something. In the attack on the Collector base, my choice as to whether to install upgrades, who to send to do what mission, who's loyalty I had decided I needed, and who I took with me to the final confrontation all decided who lived and who died. My choices changed something. On Tuchanka, my choices of whether to save the Genophage Cure data, whether to save Wrex, whether Mordin survived the Suicide mission - all had effects on the outcome of Tuchanka. In addition, my final choice made a difference for the lives of Krogan everywhere, and I was shown and told this through cutscenes and the Codex.
Section 2:
1. Some games are art, and some are not - the same for movies, paintings, sculptures, music - ect. The true debate on this is a philosphical issue I would rather not get into, but I am of the opinion that that toilet urinal that was signed by an artist and sold as art is not art - a point I believe he was trying to prove [Is a true story. Some artist in WW2 I think signed a urinal, and sold it as art. Prove a point? I think so.].
I also defer to I believe it is Da Vinci for the second part: "Art is never finished, it is only abandoned". Basically: Art is fluid and ever changing. Changing something post release doesn't destroy its artistic quality, is adds to it.
2. To an extent. A lot of explanation is needed for events at the end, so I will not enter into that section, however EDI and Legion were slightly different - which could be attributed to the AI equivalent of personality evolution. Mordin was also slightly different, but a good reason was given and the most off thing about him was the change in voice. The main character that I feel was re-written was Shepard - OUR character.
Bioware made an RPG, and told us to make our own Character named Shepard, and explore their world with them. In ME1, we were able to choose stances on Gene Therapy, Religion, Racism and Xenophobia, cause and effect, which sacrifices were worth making - ect. In ME3, Shepard constantly makes religious references in their speech, such as "I know he's looking down on us" in reference to lost squadmates - despite my Shepard being an agnostic who would be careful not to allude to religion. In addition, Shepard's were forced to have dreams of 'guilt' about a kid that some of my Shepards honestly didn't care about. In the end, Shepard simply accepted everything the Catalyst said without argument. Shepard's character went from being a character we defined for ourselves to a Paragon/Renegade version of Bioware's vision of Shepard - a shame for anyone who wanted to RP their Shepard through to the end.
3. No. Rannoch made sense for the Coexistence of Synthetics and Organics. That Adam and Eve reference with the Normandy was unnecessary, and completely unexplained and, sorry, 'Space Magic'. It was a diabolous ex machina that was implemented to try and send a message that for many had already been sent, and for others was irrelevant.
4. Yes, it had more humour. I see it as not either of your options, but because the developers thought up of/had funny jokes they had in the office that related to certain characters, and decided to implement them into the game in a way that built onto the character's personality. I enjoyed the humour, and from each of the characters perspectives, it was for them likely a way of coping with the war.
5. No. In fact, not doing it would. Instead of being concerned with the quality of their work, they would be more concerned about how whoever is calling the shots personally felt about the endings - whether that was the opinion of the whole Bioware team [Hint: Unlikely. It is rare to get a unanimous decision anywhere] or not. They are refusing to continue adding to their work out of pride, and thus abandoning it. It is more than possible to stay true to their artistic vision and do what fans want, unless their artistic vision is to annoy fans into a frenzy. I would cite the likes of Charles Dickens and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but that has been done enough.
6. It does not close the story. Indeed, it does the opposite: It opens the story. You don't have an ending like that, unless there is another story to be told about it afterwords. We have no clue what becomes of the Crew after that crash, who was a part of the crash [Other than 3-4 people] nor why it crashed. With the deaths of characters like Mordin, it was shown that they died, how they died and why they died. Their story was closed. In the case of the Normandy, its story was torn open for 'lots of speculation'.
7. It should have been left alone. The Reapers were unknown and powerful being beyond our comprehension. Explaining their goals - and indeed making them so simple and somewhat paradoxial - simply served to ridicule them. We went from this:
to this:
Instead, the Reapers' motives should have been left untouched, to keep both their mystery and awe, as opposed to making them the stereotypical and cliched 'good bad guy'. "We're really on your side, we want to help, you just don't get what we're doing because we didn't explain it to you" is what they tell you, and you accept that. Instead, they should have remained mysterious, and insisted they were right, without compromise or explanation. It would have kept the Reapers ominous, and not made them trivial and 'misunderstood'.
8. I believe you are referring to Deus Ex. The endings in that made sense within the context of the story. It fit in with the established themes, and felt appropriate because of this.
Mass Effect 3 presents three options to you, with minor foreshadowing throughout the game - but not the series - and provides you with 'logic' for why these are your options, without properly explaining it or introducing it. Destroying the Reapers was always your goal. Why must you die for that though? Controlling the Reapers was alluded to by the Illusive man, but why would they let you control them? Synthesis came straight out of left field, with no explanation or foreshadowing, and you are just told 'This is the best solution' in a non-specific way. It does not play to the themes of the series - the goal was always protecting the Galaxy from the Reapers, but never that synthetics and organics will always fight, and you must find a solution to this. That was the arc of Rannoch and the Quarians, not of the overarching story. The Overarching story was all about uniting the galaxy to defeat impossible odds and save everyone from the Reapers.
9. They likely did not do a proper job with Tali because they were rushed and thought her unimportant to the overall story - regardless of whether she was the LI of some fans or not.
As for the Chobot issue - it is complicated. Chobot herself likely did not sell out a review to be in the game, but it was likely seen as something extra they could push in as advertising or something by IGN. Did this affect the ME3 ratings by IGN? Yes and No. Yes, it did. You would be stupid to bash work that includes one of your staff. It would reflect that you thought they did a bad job, thereby reflecting poorly on you as if they did a bad job, and they work for you, your work must be a 'bad job' as such. I hope you can see what I'm getting at here, even though I haven't exactly made it clear.
And no, because this is not the thing that would have garnered IGN's devotion. It is known by many people that most if not all professional reviewers are paid off. Not directly, but the fiasco with that reviewer of Kane and Lynch is what I'm talking about, and its naive to believe that doesn't happen in other companies on a large scale too. Magazines need money to stay in business. They will accept it wherever it comes from. Gaming magazines thrive on staying current, and to stay current they need pre-release versions of games. Gaming companies exploit this. They give magazines pre-release versions of games, and fund those magazines, but if a negative review is posted about one of their games - they pull funding and don't supply pre release copies. You don't fund bad advertising, and that is how negative reviews in major gaming journalism are likely viewed by companies: Bad advertising that they are paying for.
So, no, Jessica Chobot is merely a Scapegoat, not the true issue. There is likely some truth to the claims that IGN is being 'paid off' by EA though, although it is more in a corporate sense of funding and such that backroom bribe deals to each reviewer.
Section 3:
1. Yes, I have beaten the game. I attempted to replay it, but got only to after the attack on the Citadel due to not having the heart to continue - the endings killed the franchise for me.
2. The ending was bad. Just plain bad. The worst kind of bad too - it was bad and extremely disappointing.
I hold this opinion because the ending discarded all my choices, and threw them out the window with a 'Well, they don't matter. What REALLY matters is this organic/synthetic thing you've already sorted out amirite?
None of my decisions mattered at all in the endings. There wasn't even a scene where I saw a couple of my war assets fighting. It was all generic Alliance troops, Asari troops and Turian troops - the groups your were guaranteed to have. The closest it came to honouring my choices was that some people were standing around the FOB when the end mission for Earth started, but I never saw the difference my individual choices made [It is arguable that I saw the collective result of my choices with the Sword battle though, though I think that is still pushing it].
In addition, the ending has little or no respect for established lore, and retcons what has been explained or established previously numerous times with no explanations as 'You don't need to know the answers to the ME universe'.
The ending was also poorly thought out. It relies on Diablous Ex Machina, A magic bullet, a new plot element introduced literally a minute before the end, and potentially a Deus Ex Machina too. It disregards established writing structures for the simple reason that it is not meant to provide closure [What is the point of an ending then?], but instead 'lots of speculation', and fails to do it successfully.
The entire end sequence feels rushed, and is a collection of horde mode sections and cutscenes, and a lot of auto dialogue [Its sad that that is a term used for ME]. There is little content to it, and it moves forward at a rapid pace, as if its saying 'just finish the game already, we're running out of ideas as to how to keep you entertained!'.
It attempts to surprise us, and succeeds - but in the wrong way. A big reveal that was probably meant to be an 'Oh my god' moment on par with Bioshock's 'Would you kindly' moment instead garnered the reaction of 'Why the hell would you do that? This ruins everything! Why force in some godlike being for the sake of it? What is with all these Christianity references?'.
The ending also completely discarded Shepard as anything but Bioware's character, as he didn't even argue or rebel against the Reapers' leader, and instead simply accepted what he was told.
I could link you to numerous articles and videos explaining the failings of the Mass Effect ending in technical literary terms, but you've probably already seen them, or know of others that say the same thing.
3. Mass Effect three is not replayable at all for me. The story literally ends the same way no matter what, and my choices mean nothing, so why should I replay it? The gameplay isn't that great, and that carries over to the multiplayer too, and the main reason I played the ME franchise was to see how my decisions changed the galaxy. Knowing that they all change the galaxy into the same thing robs me of any need to replay the game. Yes, it is the end's fault. Yes, the likely included multiplayer for extra replayability - but not because they doubted their ending. Likely more for those who were unconcerned with the story, and just wanted GoW style play.
4. I do not have any knowledge of Kai Leng before ME3, and thus have nothing to say on that matter. Garrus and Tali I saw as a natural course of action - you're going to look for someone to care for in your final hours, and they are the only two Dextro-Amino's on the ship. Joker Flying off definitely needs explaining, however I will wait for 'clarification' DLC before rendering my judgement on that.
5. Right from the beginning. It was mostly auto dialogue, it had no real conversations, and nothing to do with the trial we were promised. It felt rushed and pieced together to simply be a collection of set pieces designed to look actiony and teach people controls. It changed pace for Tuchanka, and didn't do bad on Rannoch. Menae was Ok too. At the end, the exact same problems as at the start showed up.
6. Undoubtedly - assuming it was done right and not the joke 'Yellow, Cyan and Magenta explosions!' ending. If it included my choices, had closure, and does not railroad me into a Red, Green or Blue ending that are the exact same as each other, whilst also implementing 'Suicide Mission Mechanics', I will be more than happy to throw money at Bioware and purchase their DLC.
7. It is not a dream. It is what Bioware intended to be real. There is evidence on both sides - Indoc from in game stuff, anti-Indoc from Dev quotes, Dev diaries, PR statements, ect. It is, however, simply a result of Bioware asking for speculation. It is sad that fans came up with a better ending than they could. Finally, the retake people do NOT ignore the final section of the game. They demand it be changed, rather than ignoring it. They believe that is what the devs intended, but it is not liked and thus should be changed. Indoc's believe that the devs didn't intend the current endings - except as a dream sequence, and Shepard will wake up and keep going after repelling Indoctrination later. One demands change to the endings - even if it does end up being Indoc - the other insists the endings don't need changing, and everyone needs to just wait and see - they'll release the Indoc DLC and all Indoc believers will go 'I told you so'. Note: Most 'Die hard' views from each, does not represent full spectrum of views from each party.
Section 4:
1. I bought everything except the alternate appearance packs. I wanted all the extra story content I could get, and I liked the sound of some of the weapons in the weapons packs. Changed appearances for characters I did not bother with as I generally choose to keep them in their default 'Canon' outfits, as I think they look better in them anyway.
2. Neither. It will be exclusive to Mass Effect 3. No precedent at all is being set here. Mass Effect 3 is a very specific case - a rare type of game that you will be hard pressed to find another like - and what applies for it cannot be extrapolated to apply for linear games, or movies, or books. A large portion of the complaints come from three catagories:
-Plot holes: Complained about anyway in any for of entertainment and media. ME3 will not change that.
-Literary failings: Also talked about for everything - albeit by fewer people. ME3 is also very unlikely to change this.
-Our choices were not reflected like they were promised to be: A complaint that pretty much applies exclusively to ME3. Promises were made, a lot of people feel those promises were not kept, and we want those promises of our choices affecting the outcome of the story to be honoured. This will only affect other games that have non linear branching story lines where your choices usually matter, are promised to matter at some point, and don't matter at that point. Odds are, such situations would receive complaints from fans anyway.
The Retake Movement is not setting any precedent. The closest one it comes to setting is the precedent that we will allow companies to not release parts of games, and charge more for them later - but this precedent has already been set with DLC, and can be easily unset if people actually wanted to unset it: Don't buy the next game that tries to force this on you. If everyone wanted that precedent gone, and did this, that precedent would die very quickly. Problem is, a lot of people have enough money that they just don't care.
3. Yes, I did buy from Ashes. No, they did not alienate themselves from the consumers with this. It is a fan tribute DLC containing non necessary information, and is something that only fans of the series would see as important - fans who would likely be buying the Collectors edition. There are numerous reasons why a fan may not be able to get a collectors edition, or the DLC, however it is not that that I object to. Pulling it from the story, based off notes I have seen, seems to have been deliberately done to place him out as DLC content. [Originally the plan was to have him on Thessia, and Cerberus kidnapped him, and that is how the Illusive man got his info on the Catalyst, and you have to rescue him. The text I have seen describes "Having to find an alternate way for Cerberus to acquire that data", implying the Prothean was all set up to be working there, but was pulled for some reason or other, forcing a slight edit into that part of the script to account for its loss]. That I do object to.
As for the overall question: Yes, consumers do have a right to request producers change their product, and vote with their wallet if they don't like what the producer is doing. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
Edit: Fixed formatting a little bit.
1. Yes
2. I have played, and I know how the trilogy ends
3. Yes, multiple times over [At least 7 playthroughs of each]
4. It changed dependent on Playthrough. First was Ash, then Miranda, then Tali and I'm planning on doing a Liara one sometime. No, it did not affect my enjoyment. Up until ME3 all the Romances I felt were done well. In ME3, it felt a bit rushed and forced at times however.
5. I'm not sure what you mean here. If you mean 'Did you save them because you felt invested in their character's plot archs, and wanted to find out how they ended' to an extent - yes. To another extent, they were my friends, and I don't let my friends die. [From both an RP and RL perspective]
6. No. I RPed my characters, and they accepted the consequences of their actions. I knew Renegade options were as likely to backfire as Paragon ones, but that was irrelevant as my characters had no knowledge of how their choices would affect things, they just knew what they thought was right. My characters made decisions off their beliefs, not off what the consequences would be.
7. Saving the Destiny Ascension. Fighting through the Collector base, and returning unscathed. Tuchanka in ME3.
Common themes that I can see:
Hope, and the ability to overcome impossible odds: The Alliance defeated the Geth attacking the Ascension, and then went on to defeat Sovereign as well - even though sacrificing the fleets to save the Ascension was supposed to be a risk that your squadmate made it sound like it would lead to Sovereign winning. The Suicide Mission was a Suicide Mission - noone was getting out of there alive. For me, everyone did. I overcame impossible odds and succeeded, without sacrificing anyone. On Tuchanka I took on a full fledge Reaper on foot, and won. In addition, I cured the Genophage and overcame a millennia of prejudice against the Krogan, proceeding to save them from extinction, which then lead to a turn in the tide of the fight for Palavan as Numerous Reapers simply exploded - told to me by the Codex that they had Nukes bought by the Krogan smuggled onto them by Turians about to get processed, who then detonated them to save Palavan.
Sacrifice for Victory: I had to sacrifice the Alliance fleet to save the Destiny Ascension. In the Suicide Mission, it was entirely possible crew members would sacrifice their lives for the cause, but thanks to my great leadership that wasn't necessary. On Tuchanka I had to sacrifice Mordin for the Krogan.
Choice and Consequence: My choice either saved the Destiny Ascension at the cost of Alliance cruisers - 20 if I remember correctly - or sacrificed the Destiny Ascension and Council for the Alliance ships. My choice Changed something. In the attack on the Collector base, my choice as to whether to install upgrades, who to send to do what mission, who's loyalty I had decided I needed, and who I took with me to the final confrontation all decided who lived and who died. My choices changed something. On Tuchanka, my choices of whether to save the Genophage Cure data, whether to save Wrex, whether Mordin survived the Suicide mission - all had effects on the outcome of Tuchanka. In addition, my final choice made a difference for the lives of Krogan everywhere, and I was shown and told this through cutscenes and the Codex.
Section 2:
1. Some games are art, and some are not - the same for movies, paintings, sculptures, music - ect. The true debate on this is a philosphical issue I would rather not get into, but I am of the opinion that that toilet urinal that was signed by an artist and sold as art is not art - a point I believe he was trying to prove [Is a true story. Some artist in WW2 I think signed a urinal, and sold it as art. Prove a point? I think so.].
I also defer to I believe it is Da Vinci for the second part: "Art is never finished, it is only abandoned". Basically: Art is fluid and ever changing. Changing something post release doesn't destroy its artistic quality, is adds to it.
2. To an extent. A lot of explanation is needed for events at the end, so I will not enter into that section, however EDI and Legion were slightly different - which could be attributed to the AI equivalent of personality evolution. Mordin was also slightly different, but a good reason was given and the most off thing about him was the change in voice. The main character that I feel was re-written was Shepard - OUR character.
Bioware made an RPG, and told us to make our own Character named Shepard, and explore their world with them. In ME1, we were able to choose stances on Gene Therapy, Religion, Racism and Xenophobia, cause and effect, which sacrifices were worth making - ect. In ME3, Shepard constantly makes religious references in their speech, such as "I know he's looking down on us" in reference to lost squadmates - despite my Shepard being an agnostic who would be careful not to allude to religion. In addition, Shepard's were forced to have dreams of 'guilt' about a kid that some of my Shepards honestly didn't care about. In the end, Shepard simply accepted everything the Catalyst said without argument. Shepard's character went from being a character we defined for ourselves to a Paragon/Renegade version of Bioware's vision of Shepard - a shame for anyone who wanted to RP their Shepard through to the end.
3. No. Rannoch made sense for the Coexistence of Synthetics and Organics. That Adam and Eve reference with the Normandy was unnecessary, and completely unexplained and, sorry, 'Space Magic'. It was a diabolous ex machina that was implemented to try and send a message that for many had already been sent, and for others was irrelevant.
4. Yes, it had more humour. I see it as not either of your options, but because the developers thought up of/had funny jokes they had in the office that related to certain characters, and decided to implement them into the game in a way that built onto the character's personality. I enjoyed the humour, and from each of the characters perspectives, it was for them likely a way of coping with the war.
5. No. In fact, not doing it would. Instead of being concerned with the quality of their work, they would be more concerned about how whoever is calling the shots personally felt about the endings - whether that was the opinion of the whole Bioware team [Hint: Unlikely. It is rare to get a unanimous decision anywhere] or not. They are refusing to continue adding to their work out of pride, and thus abandoning it. It is more than possible to stay true to their artistic vision and do what fans want, unless their artistic vision is to annoy fans into a frenzy. I would cite the likes of Charles Dickens and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but that has been done enough.
6. It does not close the story. Indeed, it does the opposite: It opens the story. You don't have an ending like that, unless there is another story to be told about it afterwords. We have no clue what becomes of the Crew after that crash, who was a part of the crash [Other than 3-4 people] nor why it crashed. With the deaths of characters like Mordin, it was shown that they died, how they died and why they died. Their story was closed. In the case of the Normandy, its story was torn open for 'lots of speculation'.
7. It should have been left alone. The Reapers were unknown and powerful being beyond our comprehension. Explaining their goals - and indeed making them so simple and somewhat paradoxial - simply served to ridicule them. We went from this:
to this:
Instead, the Reapers' motives should have been left untouched, to keep both their mystery and awe, as opposed to making them the stereotypical and cliched 'good bad guy'. "We're really on your side, we want to help, you just don't get what we're doing because we didn't explain it to you" is what they tell you, and you accept that. Instead, they should have remained mysterious, and insisted they were right, without compromise or explanation. It would have kept the Reapers ominous, and not made them trivial and 'misunderstood'.
8. I believe you are referring to Deus Ex. The endings in that made sense within the context of the story. It fit in with the established themes, and felt appropriate because of this.
Mass Effect 3 presents three options to you, with minor foreshadowing throughout the game - but not the series - and provides you with 'logic' for why these are your options, without properly explaining it or introducing it. Destroying the Reapers was always your goal. Why must you die for that though? Controlling the Reapers was alluded to by the Illusive man, but why would they let you control them? Synthesis came straight out of left field, with no explanation or foreshadowing, and you are just told 'This is the best solution' in a non-specific way. It does not play to the themes of the series - the goal was always protecting the Galaxy from the Reapers, but never that synthetics and organics will always fight, and you must find a solution to this. That was the arc of Rannoch and the Quarians, not of the overarching story. The Overarching story was all about uniting the galaxy to defeat impossible odds and save everyone from the Reapers.
9. They likely did not do a proper job with Tali because they were rushed and thought her unimportant to the overall story - regardless of whether she was the LI of some fans or not.
As for the Chobot issue - it is complicated. Chobot herself likely did not sell out a review to be in the game, but it was likely seen as something extra they could push in as advertising or something by IGN. Did this affect the ME3 ratings by IGN? Yes and No. Yes, it did. You would be stupid to bash work that includes one of your staff. It would reflect that you thought they did a bad job, thereby reflecting poorly on you as if they did a bad job, and they work for you, your work must be a 'bad job' as such. I hope you can see what I'm getting at here, even though I haven't exactly made it clear.
And no, because this is not the thing that would have garnered IGN's devotion. It is known by many people that most if not all professional reviewers are paid off. Not directly, but the fiasco with that reviewer of Kane and Lynch is what I'm talking about, and its naive to believe that doesn't happen in other companies on a large scale too. Magazines need money to stay in business. They will accept it wherever it comes from. Gaming magazines thrive on staying current, and to stay current they need pre-release versions of games. Gaming companies exploit this. They give magazines pre-release versions of games, and fund those magazines, but if a negative review is posted about one of their games - they pull funding and don't supply pre release copies. You don't fund bad advertising, and that is how negative reviews in major gaming journalism are likely viewed by companies: Bad advertising that they are paying for.
So, no, Jessica Chobot is merely a Scapegoat, not the true issue. There is likely some truth to the claims that IGN is being 'paid off' by EA though, although it is more in a corporate sense of funding and such that backroom bribe deals to each reviewer.
Section 3:
1. Yes, I have beaten the game. I attempted to replay it, but got only to after the attack on the Citadel due to not having the heart to continue - the endings killed the franchise for me.
2. The ending was bad. Just plain bad. The worst kind of bad too - it was bad and extremely disappointing.
I hold this opinion because the ending discarded all my choices, and threw them out the window with a 'Well, they don't matter. What REALLY matters is this organic/synthetic thing you've already sorted out amirite?
None of my decisions mattered at all in the endings. There wasn't even a scene where I saw a couple of my war assets fighting. It was all generic Alliance troops, Asari troops and Turian troops - the groups your were guaranteed to have. The closest it came to honouring my choices was that some people were standing around the FOB when the end mission for Earth started, but I never saw the difference my individual choices made [It is arguable that I saw the collective result of my choices with the Sword battle though, though I think that is still pushing it].
In addition, the ending has little or no respect for established lore, and retcons what has been explained or established previously numerous times with no explanations as 'You don't need to know the answers to the ME universe'.
The ending was also poorly thought out. It relies on Diablous Ex Machina, A magic bullet, a new plot element introduced literally a minute before the end, and potentially a Deus Ex Machina too. It disregards established writing structures for the simple reason that it is not meant to provide closure [What is the point of an ending then?], but instead 'lots of speculation', and fails to do it successfully.
The entire end sequence feels rushed, and is a collection of horde mode sections and cutscenes, and a lot of auto dialogue [Its sad that that is a term used for ME]. There is little content to it, and it moves forward at a rapid pace, as if its saying 'just finish the game already, we're running out of ideas as to how to keep you entertained!'.
It attempts to surprise us, and succeeds - but in the wrong way. A big reveal that was probably meant to be an 'Oh my god' moment on par with Bioshock's 'Would you kindly' moment instead garnered the reaction of 'Why the hell would you do that? This ruins everything! Why force in some godlike being for the sake of it? What is with all these Christianity references?'.
The ending also completely discarded Shepard as anything but Bioware's character, as he didn't even argue or rebel against the Reapers' leader, and instead simply accepted what he was told.
I could link you to numerous articles and videos explaining the failings of the Mass Effect ending in technical literary terms, but you've probably already seen them, or know of others that say the same thing.
3. Mass Effect three is not replayable at all for me. The story literally ends the same way no matter what, and my choices mean nothing, so why should I replay it? The gameplay isn't that great, and that carries over to the multiplayer too, and the main reason I played the ME franchise was to see how my decisions changed the galaxy. Knowing that they all change the galaxy into the same thing robs me of any need to replay the game. Yes, it is the end's fault. Yes, the likely included multiplayer for extra replayability - but not because they doubted their ending. Likely more for those who were unconcerned with the story, and just wanted GoW style play.
4. I do not have any knowledge of Kai Leng before ME3, and thus have nothing to say on that matter. Garrus and Tali I saw as a natural course of action - you're going to look for someone to care for in your final hours, and they are the only two Dextro-Amino's on the ship. Joker Flying off definitely needs explaining, however I will wait for 'clarification' DLC before rendering my judgement on that.
5. Right from the beginning. It was mostly auto dialogue, it had no real conversations, and nothing to do with the trial we were promised. It felt rushed and pieced together to simply be a collection of set pieces designed to look actiony and teach people controls. It changed pace for Tuchanka, and didn't do bad on Rannoch. Menae was Ok too. At the end, the exact same problems as at the start showed up.
6. Undoubtedly - assuming it was done right and not the joke 'Yellow, Cyan and Magenta explosions!' ending. If it included my choices, had closure, and does not railroad me into a Red, Green or Blue ending that are the exact same as each other, whilst also implementing 'Suicide Mission Mechanics', I will be more than happy to throw money at Bioware and purchase their DLC.
7. It is not a dream. It is what Bioware intended to be real. There is evidence on both sides - Indoc from in game stuff, anti-Indoc from Dev quotes, Dev diaries, PR statements, ect. It is, however, simply a result of Bioware asking for speculation. It is sad that fans came up with a better ending than they could. Finally, the retake people do NOT ignore the final section of the game. They demand it be changed, rather than ignoring it. They believe that is what the devs intended, but it is not liked and thus should be changed. Indoc's believe that the devs didn't intend the current endings - except as a dream sequence, and Shepard will wake up and keep going after repelling Indoctrination later. One demands change to the endings - even if it does end up being Indoc - the other insists the endings don't need changing, and everyone needs to just wait and see - they'll release the Indoc DLC and all Indoc believers will go 'I told you so'. Note: Most 'Die hard' views from each, does not represent full spectrum of views from each party.
Section 4:
1. I bought everything except the alternate appearance packs. I wanted all the extra story content I could get, and I liked the sound of some of the weapons in the weapons packs. Changed appearances for characters I did not bother with as I generally choose to keep them in their default 'Canon' outfits, as I think they look better in them anyway.
2. Neither. It will be exclusive to Mass Effect 3. No precedent at all is being set here. Mass Effect 3 is a very specific case - a rare type of game that you will be hard pressed to find another like - and what applies for it cannot be extrapolated to apply for linear games, or movies, or books. A large portion of the complaints come from three catagories:
-Plot holes: Complained about anyway in any for of entertainment and media. ME3 will not change that.
-Literary failings: Also talked about for everything - albeit by fewer people. ME3 is also very unlikely to change this.
-Our choices were not reflected like they were promised to be: A complaint that pretty much applies exclusively to ME3. Promises were made, a lot of people feel those promises were not kept, and we want those promises of our choices affecting the outcome of the story to be honoured. This will only affect other games that have non linear branching story lines where your choices usually matter, are promised to matter at some point, and don't matter at that point. Odds are, such situations would receive complaints from fans anyway.
The Retake Movement is not setting any precedent. The closest one it comes to setting is the precedent that we will allow companies to not release parts of games, and charge more for them later - but this precedent has already been set with DLC, and can be easily unset if people actually wanted to unset it: Don't buy the next game that tries to force this on you. If everyone wanted that precedent gone, and did this, that precedent would die very quickly. Problem is, a lot of people have enough money that they just don't care.
3. Yes, I did buy from Ashes. No, they did not alienate themselves from the consumers with this. It is a fan tribute DLC containing non necessary information, and is something that only fans of the series would see as important - fans who would likely be buying the Collectors edition. There are numerous reasons why a fan may not be able to get a collectors edition, or the DLC, however it is not that that I object to. Pulling it from the story, based off notes I have seen, seems to have been deliberately done to place him out as DLC content. [Originally the plan was to have him on Thessia, and Cerberus kidnapped him, and that is how the Illusive man got his info on the Catalyst, and you have to rescue him. The text I have seen describes "Having to find an alternate way for Cerberus to acquire that data", implying the Prothean was all set up to be working there, but was pulled for some reason or other, forcing a slight edit into that part of the script to account for its loss]. That I do object to.
As for the overall question: Yes, consumers do have a right to request producers change their product, and vote with their wallet if they don't like what the producer is doing. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
Edit: Fixed formatting a little bit.
Modifié par Joccaren, 05 avril 2012 - 07:59 .
#31
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:52
Thornne
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1.1 Yes
1.3 Yes
1.4 Liara in my carry-through game to ME3. Tried most of them in various playthroughs however.
1.5 Yes, the stories were the main influence for making sure everyone came back.
1.6 At times, yes. But in general, no.
2.1 Not sure. If they are art, they are a new type of art that is different than most previous forms. Software is much easier to change and distribute than most other artistic mediums.
2.2 Legion was the only one that really got my attention. He seemed significantly different.
2.3 I don't think it made sense -- I think they had some imagery they wanted to leave us with, and they forced it into the narrative.
2.4 I don't think it had more humorous moments, or at least not more than it needed. The heavy subject needed a little levity now and then IMO.
2.5 I think that if you want to consider the ending of ME3 to be art, it is not art I can appreciate. When I look at it, I can't help but think they could have done much better, and that they realize this. So I find the artistic integrity defense to be somewhat silly.
2.6 Nothing. I fully expected to see Shepard die at the end, as well as most of the crew. I expected the deaths to mean something, and for the story to provide some sort of closure around them, however.
2.7 Given the choice between the current attempt at explaining them and leaving them alone, definitely left alone. Other and better ideas are out there, and I can't imagine that Bioware's writing team cannot come up with better.
2.8 Because ME needs an ending of it's own. One that actually fits the rest of the series. Not a poor knock off of some other game's ending.
2.9 I have no idea if Chobot's role in the game influenced IGN or its rating of ME3. It does seem like an inappropriate relationship between a game maker and a game critic, but to me this is largely a non-issue.
3.1 I have beaten the game, but have not replayed it.
3.2 I found it it very disappointing, and it has basically put me off playing any of the ME series again. The ending does not seem to go with the entire rest of the ME series. It seems disconnected, poorly thought out, poorly implemented, and it is so inconclusive and vague that it left me feeling like I had wasted my time playing the rest of the game to get to that point. I honestly find it hard to reconcile the fact that the same production team that made the rest of ME3 is also responsible for the ending.
3.3 Yes - for me the ending, and the way it nullifies everything else about the story, has reduced my interest in a replay of ME3 to zero. Bioware being quiet about the reactions doesn't really surprise me -- it appears they do not consider it a mistake (or will not admit it if so) so there isn't much they can say. I don't think the new multi-player and the quality of the ending are directly related in any way. It seems like the MP features may have taken time away from story-related work on the rest of the game, but this is just conjecture on my part.
3.4 I can't compare Kai Leng to anything, as I have not read any of the works he is in. My problem with was more that they seemed to want him to be a really impressive antagonist, but they didn't spend the time to give him any stature. So I found him shallow and a bit silly, but not terrible. I had no real problem with Garrus and Tali hooking up right before the final mission to Earth -- I assumed that everyone was preparing to die in the coming battle, and this was just them sharing their last hours with someone close. The ending scene with the Normandy fleeing was so disconnected and strange that I don't even try to make sense out of it. If they wanted us to be able to understand this scene, they would have given some context. So I assume we're not supposed to understand it, just appreciate the imagery of the Adam and Eve ending.
3.5 The battle at Earth was where I noticed things feeling rushed, and this feeling accelerated as the game came to an end. A few cutscenes for the epic space battle, some rather simple ground missions (albeit against large number of enemies), and you're at the conduit. No context is really given for how the forces you've spent the whole game rallying are affecting the battle. No context for what your other squad mates are doing, even though they're there on Earth with you. It feels like this part of the game was done quickly and was not given as much polish.
3.6 I would not pay for a new ending unless it had several hours of playable content that was up to the quality of the rest of the game.
3.7 I can see why people choose to believe 'it was all a dream', but I do not personally hold that view. IMO if it was all a dream, then that is even worse -- there is literally no ending at all to the game, in this case.
4.1 I did not buy any DLC for ME2.
4.2 I don't think there is any clear evidence that 'Retake' is directly responsible for EA's stock price or the price of ME3. Retake is symptomatic of the larger problem -- which is that promises were broken and poor ending largely ruins the rest of the game -- and this is the real problem which is influencing the poor reception ME3 seems to be getting.
4.3 I did not buy "From Ashes". Yes, I think day 1 DLC was a pretty crass move. But they made this business decision, and I made my decision not to buy it, so that's the end of that, as far as I am concerned.
1.3 Yes
1.4 Liara in my carry-through game to ME3. Tried most of them in various playthroughs however.
1.5 Yes, the stories were the main influence for making sure everyone came back.
1.6 At times, yes. But in general, no.
2.1 Not sure. If they are art, they are a new type of art that is different than most previous forms. Software is much easier to change and distribute than most other artistic mediums.
2.2 Legion was the only one that really got my attention. He seemed significantly different.
2.3 I don't think it made sense -- I think they had some imagery they wanted to leave us with, and they forced it into the narrative.
2.4 I don't think it had more humorous moments, or at least not more than it needed. The heavy subject needed a little levity now and then IMO.
2.5 I think that if you want to consider the ending of ME3 to be art, it is not art I can appreciate. When I look at it, I can't help but think they could have done much better, and that they realize this. So I find the artistic integrity defense to be somewhat silly.
2.6 Nothing. I fully expected to see Shepard die at the end, as well as most of the crew. I expected the deaths to mean something, and for the story to provide some sort of closure around them, however.
2.7 Given the choice between the current attempt at explaining them and leaving them alone, definitely left alone. Other and better ideas are out there, and I can't imagine that Bioware's writing team cannot come up with better.
2.8 Because ME needs an ending of it's own. One that actually fits the rest of the series. Not a poor knock off of some other game's ending.
2.9 I have no idea if Chobot's role in the game influenced IGN or its rating of ME3. It does seem like an inappropriate relationship between a game maker and a game critic, but to me this is largely a non-issue.
3.1 I have beaten the game, but have not replayed it.
3.2 I found it it very disappointing, and it has basically put me off playing any of the ME series again. The ending does not seem to go with the entire rest of the ME series. It seems disconnected, poorly thought out, poorly implemented, and it is so inconclusive and vague that it left me feeling like I had wasted my time playing the rest of the game to get to that point. I honestly find it hard to reconcile the fact that the same production team that made the rest of ME3 is also responsible for the ending.
3.3 Yes - for me the ending, and the way it nullifies everything else about the story, has reduced my interest in a replay of ME3 to zero. Bioware being quiet about the reactions doesn't really surprise me -- it appears they do not consider it a mistake (or will not admit it if so) so there isn't much they can say. I don't think the new multi-player and the quality of the ending are directly related in any way. It seems like the MP features may have taken time away from story-related work on the rest of the game, but this is just conjecture on my part.
3.4 I can't compare Kai Leng to anything, as I have not read any of the works he is in. My problem with was more that they seemed to want him to be a really impressive antagonist, but they didn't spend the time to give him any stature. So I found him shallow and a bit silly, but not terrible. I had no real problem with Garrus and Tali hooking up right before the final mission to Earth -- I assumed that everyone was preparing to die in the coming battle, and this was just them sharing their last hours with someone close. The ending scene with the Normandy fleeing was so disconnected and strange that I don't even try to make sense out of it. If they wanted us to be able to understand this scene, they would have given some context. So I assume we're not supposed to understand it, just appreciate the imagery of the Adam and Eve ending.
3.5 The battle at Earth was where I noticed things feeling rushed, and this feeling accelerated as the game came to an end. A few cutscenes for the epic space battle, some rather simple ground missions (albeit against large number of enemies), and you're at the conduit. No context is really given for how the forces you've spent the whole game rallying are affecting the battle. No context for what your other squad mates are doing, even though they're there on Earth with you. It feels like this part of the game was done quickly and was not given as much polish.
3.6 I would not pay for a new ending unless it had several hours of playable content that was up to the quality of the rest of the game.
3.7 I can see why people choose to believe 'it was all a dream', but I do not personally hold that view. IMO if it was all a dream, then that is even worse -- there is literally no ending at all to the game, in this case.
4.1 I did not buy any DLC for ME2.
4.2 I don't think there is any clear evidence that 'Retake' is directly responsible for EA's stock price or the price of ME3. Retake is symptomatic of the larger problem -- which is that promises were broken and poor ending largely ruins the rest of the game -- and this is the real problem which is influencing the poor reception ME3 seems to be getting.
4.3 I did not buy "From Ashes". Yes, I think day 1 DLC was a pretty crass move. But they made this business decision, and I made my decision not to buy it, so that's the end of that, as far as I am concerned.
#32
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:54
recentio
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Only ME2.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara. Yes, I enjoyed how well-written the scenes with her were. It made me feel like things mattered more for Shep to be in love with someone.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
I didn't save them all. Sadly, I made some mistakes in team assigments the final mission.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No. I played Paragade the whole time.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Lair of the Shadow Broker. Tuchanka. Liara's goodbye in ME3.
Theme: Very strong character connections with Liara and Mordin (whom I shot despite loving him as a friend).
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes. Static, if done correctly. (Though a "static" game would simply have a fixed set of dynamic options.)
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Shepard was screwed up pretty badly--turned into a doormat--in that finale confrontation with the Starchild. Otherwise, I didn't notice.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I found it offensive and disgusting because: It was religious. It was forced to happen so that it could be religious. It reeks of pretension because of how inexplicably it happened. It only happened because the writer wanted it to because it appealed to him somehow. For me, it was pompous tripe. I blame it as the reason my crew is marooned in bum**** I-don't-know-where, hopefully NOT to repopulate some New Eden. God, it makes me want to puke...
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No. About the same.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No. I think the fact that the current ending was written by two guys while the rest of the game was written by a diverse and talented team has compromised its artistic integrity already. It needs to change to RESTORE its integrity so that it is a proper climax to what actually happened in the rest of the series.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Stranding the crew has no purpose. NONE. Except the very disgusting purpose of making me watch the writer stroke himself for his allegorical brilliance...ugh! It is not a logically necessary event. There's no valid chain of causation that leads to it, unlike Mordin, Legion, Thane, Tali, or even Anderson. It is narratively unjustified and thus breaks the fourth wall and makes me stare in helpless horror at some guy's misplaced ego ruining my crew's lives.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
No opinion. I would just say if they want to explain it, please give an explanation that makes sense. I am not a stupid person. I can tell when I'm looking at a Gandalf-caliber wizard and when I'm looking at the smoke and mirrors of an old man behind a curtain. The explanation has to hold water under a true logical assault. The current one doesn't cut it. I mean really, Synthesis is a f**** joke. As soon as Shep got done raping everyone's cellmatter, every person who didn't want to be changed will start trying to go back to who they were AND every person who wants an intelligent servant will start trying to make synthetics again. Why? Because people have minds of their own. Imagine that! You can't force people to accept something.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
I'm not familiar with those other games.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
The thing with Tali's face might have been a last-minute decision. I don't know.
IGN are on the take. They are an advertisement site, and they write whatever their advertisers want them to to draw customers eyes to those precious ads and then visciously defend their masters when we plebians dare to ask that basic storytelling standards be met.
Ms. Chobot, I think, was excited to do some VA. It's nice that she got the opportunity. I wouldn't blame her for anything. She just wanted to do something fun.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. Have not replayed.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I do not like it. My position is that it should be revised because I feel that its flaws are too significant to allow to remain. They detract from an otherwise excellent piece of work. I'm worn out from going on and on, but my basic objections to the ending are: (1) the central theme addressed by the ending is not the central theme of the game as I played it, (2) I do not like for a never-before-seen-or-known godlike character to be swoop in at the end, dictate how things are, and give me no option to really question/disagree with anything they tell me (especially because what it said was based on the supposition that technophobia is correct), (3) my attachment to the characters was abused for the sole purpose of provoking a response (look! you're friends abandoned you for some reason and are now hopelessly stranded somewhere) rather than for legitimate, believable storytelling reasons, and (4) the downright contemptable epiloge is just tacky -- only there because someone completely out of touch with how to tell a story thought it would be a clever way to end the story. If I had it on PC, I would delete that epilogue.bik file immediately.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I have little desire to replay ME3. I like to be rewarded for my efforts. Catharsis is a reward. Nonsensical splooge is not a reward.
I couldn't care less why they added multiplayer.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
Kai Leng reminds me of an uncool Boba Fett. It would have been nice if he'd had a more fully-developed character, but meh. I also don't mind Garrus/Tali; it was kind of cute.
But Joker... Et tu Joker? That was inexcusable.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
Honestly, I felt like it changed at Thessia. Quality and complexity started to slip. Things were still okay until the Crucible for no reason didn't fire. And then the elevator to Hell...
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I'd rather pay for a fully-incorporated ending revision.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Because this is a survey, I'll be honest. I think only an idiot believes in conspiracy theories in real life. It's not even worth arguing to me. Time will reveal who is correct, and "speculation" can kiss my a***. If I wanted to make up the whole story in my own head, I would have. Lamest excuse for being lazy/incompetent I ever ever heard. My boss would fire me for leaving half the work to the client.
I will say, as a story twist, I'll choose to accept IT if BioWare doesn't fix what they did simply because "it was all a dream" is still a better ending than what is there now.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
Yes. I bought them because ME2 was fun, and I wanted more of it. Lair of the Shadow Broker is one of the greatest game episodes I've ever played. The pacing, the adventure, the character tension... It was sheer entertainment brilliance.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I know I am personally disappointed in the paucity of quality entertainment. So many things are just so tired and predictable, written for the lowest common denominator. I honestly find textbooks more interesting than most of TV, movies, games, comics, and novels. There are some gems. I had hoped ME3 would be one of them. But I don't think its remotely limited to games.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
No. The game is a bit short. I think Javik should have been included in the main game. Especially if he is necessary to make that cesspool of an ending start to make sense.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Only ME2.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara. Yes, I enjoyed how well-written the scenes with her were. It made me feel like things mattered more for Shep to be in love with someone.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
I didn't save them all. Sadly, I made some mistakes in team assigments the final mission.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No. I played Paragade the whole time.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Lair of the Shadow Broker. Tuchanka. Liara's goodbye in ME3.
Theme: Very strong character connections with Liara and Mordin (whom I shot despite loving him as a friend).
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes. Static, if done correctly. (Though a "static" game would simply have a fixed set of dynamic options.)
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Shepard was screwed up pretty badly--turned into a doormat--in that finale confrontation with the Starchild. Otherwise, I didn't notice.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I found it offensive and disgusting because: It was religious. It was forced to happen so that it could be religious. It reeks of pretension because of how inexplicably it happened. It only happened because the writer wanted it to because it appealed to him somehow. For me, it was pompous tripe. I blame it as the reason my crew is marooned in bum**** I-don't-know-where, hopefully NOT to repopulate some New Eden. God, it makes me want to puke...
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No. About the same.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No. I think the fact that the current ending was written by two guys while the rest of the game was written by a diverse and talented team has compromised its artistic integrity already. It needs to change to RESTORE its integrity so that it is a proper climax to what actually happened in the rest of the series.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Stranding the crew has no purpose. NONE. Except the very disgusting purpose of making me watch the writer stroke himself for his allegorical brilliance...ugh! It is not a logically necessary event. There's no valid chain of causation that leads to it, unlike Mordin, Legion, Thane, Tali, or even Anderson. It is narratively unjustified and thus breaks the fourth wall and makes me stare in helpless horror at some guy's misplaced ego ruining my crew's lives.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
No opinion. I would just say if they want to explain it, please give an explanation that makes sense. I am not a stupid person. I can tell when I'm looking at a Gandalf-caliber wizard and when I'm looking at the smoke and mirrors of an old man behind a curtain. The explanation has to hold water under a true logical assault. The current one doesn't cut it. I mean really, Synthesis is a f**** joke. As soon as Shep got done raping everyone's cellmatter, every person who didn't want to be changed will start trying to go back to who they were AND every person who wants an intelligent servant will start trying to make synthetics again. Why? Because people have minds of their own. Imagine that! You can't force people to accept something.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
I'm not familiar with those other games.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
The thing with Tali's face might have been a last-minute decision. I don't know.
IGN are on the take. They are an advertisement site, and they write whatever their advertisers want them to to draw customers eyes to those precious ads and then visciously defend their masters when we plebians dare to ask that basic storytelling standards be met.
Ms. Chobot, I think, was excited to do some VA. It's nice that she got the opportunity. I wouldn't blame her for anything. She just wanted to do something fun.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. Have not replayed.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I do not like it. My position is that it should be revised because I feel that its flaws are too significant to allow to remain. They detract from an otherwise excellent piece of work. I'm worn out from going on and on, but my basic objections to the ending are: (1) the central theme addressed by the ending is not the central theme of the game as I played it, (2) I do not like for a never-before-seen-or-known godlike character to be swoop in at the end, dictate how things are, and give me no option to really question/disagree with anything they tell me (especially because what it said was based on the supposition that technophobia is correct), (3) my attachment to the characters was abused for the sole purpose of provoking a response (look! you're friends abandoned you for some reason and are now hopelessly stranded somewhere) rather than for legitimate, believable storytelling reasons, and (4) the downright contemptable epiloge is just tacky -- only there because someone completely out of touch with how to tell a story thought it would be a clever way to end the story. If I had it on PC, I would delete that epilogue.bik file immediately.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I have little desire to replay ME3. I like to be rewarded for my efforts. Catharsis is a reward. Nonsensical splooge is not a reward.
I couldn't care less why they added multiplayer.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
Kai Leng reminds me of an uncool Boba Fett. It would have been nice if he'd had a more fully-developed character, but meh. I also don't mind Garrus/Tali; it was kind of cute.
But Joker... Et tu Joker? That was inexcusable.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
Honestly, I felt like it changed at Thessia. Quality and complexity started to slip. Things were still okay until the Crucible for no reason didn't fire. And then the elevator to Hell...
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I'd rather pay for a fully-incorporated ending revision.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Because this is a survey, I'll be honest. I think only an idiot believes in conspiracy theories in real life. It's not even worth arguing to me. Time will reveal who is correct, and "speculation" can kiss my a***. If I wanted to make up the whole story in my own head, I would have. Lamest excuse for being lazy/incompetent I ever ever heard. My boss would fire me for leaving half the work to the client.
I will say, as a story twist, I'll choose to accept IT if BioWare doesn't fix what they did simply because "it was all a dream" is still a better ending than what is there now.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
Yes. I bought them because ME2 was fun, and I wanted more of it. Lair of the Shadow Broker is one of the greatest game episodes I've ever played. The pacing, the adventure, the character tension... It was sheer entertainment brilliance.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I know I am personally disappointed in the paucity of quality entertainment. So many things are just so tired and predictable, written for the lowest common denominator. I honestly find textbooks more interesting than most of TV, movies, games, comics, and novels. There are some gems. I had hoped ME3 would be one of them. But I don't think its remotely limited to games.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
No. The game is a bit short. I think Javik should have been included in the main game. Especially if he is necessary to make that cesspool of an ending start to make sense.
#33
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:11
Eyelidsz
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- Members
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Section 1
1) Yes.
2) -
3) Yes.
4) No love interest.
5) Yes. The characters were multi-layered and fascinating. They were worth saving.
6) No. Although my character was slightly more renegade than paragon, I always choose options that I would make if I were in the same situation.
7) a) The final mission in ME1. The writing, the presentation (battle scenes), and resolution were handled beautifully.
ME2 suicide mission. See reason above.
c) ME3 opening. The final scene of the intro with Shepard and Anderson was very moving due to Anderson opting to stay behind on Earth to help, while Shepard rallied forces from across the galaxy.
Common theme: Uniting different alien races together to achieve a common goal in stopping the Reapers.
Section 2
1) I believe video games are art. But that doesn't mean they can't be altered after release if the whole game (or even series) is completely contradicted in the final moments. To me, that is PERFECTING the art, not merely CHANGING it.
2) The best answer I have is Shepard was forced to care about a certain character, when in the previous two games, Shepard was whoever you wanted him/her to be. It can break the immersion for people who choose to play their game as a cold, ruthless soldier. Also Shepard being forced to listen to the ending dialogue and going along with it was not consistent to the Shepard from the first two games.
3) I don't view it like that, but I can understand if someone does. It's a non-issue for me.
4) The utilization of comic relief is to prevent the game from becoming an overly dramatic affair. It works well.
5) No I don't, because as I stated in #1 of this section, I see it more as trying to perfect the art that Bioware has created. There are major contradictions and plotholes in the end. Why are the Retakers viewed as entitled whiners? It isn't about it just being a bad ending. It's about tying together the plot and themes that were developed in the first two games, but ultimately thrown away in the closing moments due to last minute writing. The current ending lacks proper resolution, as it's riddled with series-destroying plotholes. It is a major issue.
6) The crew being stranded isn't an issue to me, except for HOW they got there. That is a potential plothole that needs clarifying.
7) It should have been left alone. The antagonist presented in the final moments is the reason fans are upset at the ending. Its presence completely contradicts the series.
8) I don't play many games, so I don't know the specifics on those. My answer above is appropriate here too.
9) I have no idea why they didn't do a proper 3D model of Tali's face. Time and/or budget constraints? Also, I don't believe Chobot's appearance alone had an effect on the score. Many websites gave the game a great score, because it is a great game...until the final 10 minutes. And game review sites DO get benefits from gaming companies, so I'm sure that has something to do with it. Chobot's presence in the game shouldn't be singled out as to why IGN continues to defend the ending.
Section 3
1) I beat the game exactly two weeks ago. I have not replayed it because I was shocked by the damage the ending did to the narrative consistency of the series. Loose ends weren't tied up, and major plotholes were opened. I am awaiting Bioware's announcement at PAX. After that, I will make a decision on whether or not to play the game again.
2) The ending is contradictory to the material the writers have presented in the first two games and 99% of the third game. Furthermore, it completely undermines all the gameplay and decisions the gamer has done in the whole trilogy.
3) The ending is the only reason I haven't jumped back into ME3 yet. Bioware remaining quiet for a whole month now is not helping anyone. Also, I believe that had no bearing on them deciding to include multiplayer.
4) I can't comment on Kai Leng since I am not familiar with his depiction in the novels, but his character is a very basic villain in the game with no depth. It doesn't bother me though. I have no problem with Garrus/Tali romance. Lastly, I think Joker fleeing Earth is just poor presentation more than anything. It isn't a change of character. Just very poor (and rushed?) scene planning.
5) The final Earth mission was poorly written and designed. But I only noted that after completing the game. The real change for me was meeting the plothole-creating Catalyst. There are no words to describe such inconsistency in the plot.
6) Yes I would pay. Text epilogue is not going to solve anything. It needs to be done in the actual narrative of the game, not in text.
7) I watched Indoctrination Theory videos, and the evidence is very good. I hope it is true, but I am neither a believer nor a nonbeliever. I just want to see what Bioware has to say at PAX. Indoctrination theorists feel that the ending is a metaphor for beating the indoctrination process. Retakers do not believe this, and just flat out reject the ending that is presented. Both groups have good claims, as there is excellent evidence presented in videos to support IT. However, evidence that this was not what Bioware intended is also strong. Lazy writing and planning can be seen with the poorly designed final Earth mission, poorly photoshopped face of Tali, as well as the stock image of the winter space scene after the credits roll. Ultimately though, both groups are essentially saying the same thing: the ending at face value makes no sense.
Section 4
1) I bought all ME2 DLC, because even though I had beaten the game already, the series wasn't over. There was still a sense of being in the middle of the fight, and so the extra missions just felt like an extension of that. ME3 DLC will be less successful due to so many players feeling no need to go back and play the game again when all the decisions they've made and alliances they've forged are all rendered meaningless in the end. That problem can be solved if Bioware releases proper Ending DLC either in the form of a rewrite or if Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true.
2) Poor writing is ever present in entertainment, but I believe this will only affect the gaming industry. A big reason the fans are so mad at the writing for the ending is that they've put so much time into this trilogy. Other forms of entertainment (movies primarily) obviously demand far less from the consumer than a big, emotionally involved gaming series such as Mass Effect does.
3) I had a collector's edition, so From Ashes came with my game. The main problem with the DLC is that Javik is already available on the game disc, yet people have to pay $10 to unlock him in their games. There is no excuse for that. And for that reason, it does give more credence to the Retake movement.
1) Yes.
2) -
3) Yes.
4) No love interest.
5) Yes. The characters were multi-layered and fascinating. They were worth saving.
6) No. Although my character was slightly more renegade than paragon, I always choose options that I would make if I were in the same situation.
7) a) The final mission in ME1. The writing, the presentation (battle scenes), and resolution were handled beautifully.
ME2 suicide mission. See reason above.c) ME3 opening. The final scene of the intro with Shepard and Anderson was very moving due to Anderson opting to stay behind on Earth to help, while Shepard rallied forces from across the galaxy.
Common theme: Uniting different alien races together to achieve a common goal in stopping the Reapers.
Section 2
1) I believe video games are art. But that doesn't mean they can't be altered after release if the whole game (or even series) is completely contradicted in the final moments. To me, that is PERFECTING the art, not merely CHANGING it.
2) The best answer I have is Shepard was forced to care about a certain character, when in the previous two games, Shepard was whoever you wanted him/her to be. It can break the immersion for people who choose to play their game as a cold, ruthless soldier. Also Shepard being forced to listen to the ending dialogue and going along with it was not consistent to the Shepard from the first two games.
3) I don't view it like that, but I can understand if someone does. It's a non-issue for me.
4) The utilization of comic relief is to prevent the game from becoming an overly dramatic affair. It works well.
5) No I don't, because as I stated in #1 of this section, I see it more as trying to perfect the art that Bioware has created. There are major contradictions and plotholes in the end. Why are the Retakers viewed as entitled whiners? It isn't about it just being a bad ending. It's about tying together the plot and themes that were developed in the first two games, but ultimately thrown away in the closing moments due to last minute writing. The current ending lacks proper resolution, as it's riddled with series-destroying plotholes. It is a major issue.
6) The crew being stranded isn't an issue to me, except for HOW they got there. That is a potential plothole that needs clarifying.
7) It should have been left alone. The antagonist presented in the final moments is the reason fans are upset at the ending. Its presence completely contradicts the series.
8) I don't play many games, so I don't know the specifics on those. My answer above is appropriate here too.
9) I have no idea why they didn't do a proper 3D model of Tali's face. Time and/or budget constraints? Also, I don't believe Chobot's appearance alone had an effect on the score. Many websites gave the game a great score, because it is a great game...until the final 10 minutes. And game review sites DO get benefits from gaming companies, so I'm sure that has something to do with it. Chobot's presence in the game shouldn't be singled out as to why IGN continues to defend the ending.
Section 3
1) I beat the game exactly two weeks ago. I have not replayed it because I was shocked by the damage the ending did to the narrative consistency of the series. Loose ends weren't tied up, and major plotholes were opened. I am awaiting Bioware's announcement at PAX. After that, I will make a decision on whether or not to play the game again.
2) The ending is contradictory to the material the writers have presented in the first two games and 99% of the third game. Furthermore, it completely undermines all the gameplay and decisions the gamer has done in the whole trilogy.
3) The ending is the only reason I haven't jumped back into ME3 yet. Bioware remaining quiet for a whole month now is not helping anyone. Also, I believe that had no bearing on them deciding to include multiplayer.
4) I can't comment on Kai Leng since I am not familiar with his depiction in the novels, but his character is a very basic villain in the game with no depth. It doesn't bother me though. I have no problem with Garrus/Tali romance. Lastly, I think Joker fleeing Earth is just poor presentation more than anything. It isn't a change of character. Just very poor (and rushed?) scene planning.
5) The final Earth mission was poorly written and designed. But I only noted that after completing the game. The real change for me was meeting the plothole-creating Catalyst. There are no words to describe such inconsistency in the plot.
6) Yes I would pay. Text epilogue is not going to solve anything. It needs to be done in the actual narrative of the game, not in text.
7) I watched Indoctrination Theory videos, and the evidence is very good. I hope it is true, but I am neither a believer nor a nonbeliever. I just want to see what Bioware has to say at PAX. Indoctrination theorists feel that the ending is a metaphor for beating the indoctrination process. Retakers do not believe this, and just flat out reject the ending that is presented. Both groups have good claims, as there is excellent evidence presented in videos to support IT. However, evidence that this was not what Bioware intended is also strong. Lazy writing and planning can be seen with the poorly designed final Earth mission, poorly photoshopped face of Tali, as well as the stock image of the winter space scene after the credits roll. Ultimately though, both groups are essentially saying the same thing: the ending at face value makes no sense.
Section 4
1) I bought all ME2 DLC, because even though I had beaten the game already, the series wasn't over. There was still a sense of being in the middle of the fight, and so the extra missions just felt like an extension of that. ME3 DLC will be less successful due to so many players feeling no need to go back and play the game again when all the decisions they've made and alliances they've forged are all rendered meaningless in the end. That problem can be solved if Bioware releases proper Ending DLC either in the form of a rewrite or if Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true.
2) Poor writing is ever present in entertainment, but I believe this will only affect the gaming industry. A big reason the fans are so mad at the writing for the ending is that they've put so much time into this trilogy. Other forms of entertainment (movies primarily) obviously demand far less from the consumer than a big, emotionally involved gaming series such as Mass Effect does.
3) I had a collector's edition, so From Ashes came with my game. The main problem with the DLC is that Javik is already available on the game disc, yet people have to pay $10 to unlock him in their games. There is no excuse for that. And for that reason, it does give more credence to the Retake movement.
#34
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:13
Seijin8
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- Members
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes. (Twice.)
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
n/a
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1: Liara. ME2: Tali or Liara (diferent playthroughs). Had a huge impact on my enjoyment of the games, providing a much more personal connection to the characters and consequences of Shepard's actions.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
In some cases, yes, others, just to be completionist.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Not really. I went with my gut, generally paragon, but occassionally "rough justice" needed to be dispensed.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Providing 4, cannot choose one to drop:
ME1 ending (triumphantly striding from the rubble, fist-pumping)
ME2 consoling Tali after the death of her father (Paragon interrupt; felt genuinely emotional)
ME3 arrival of the fleet in Earthspace (closest thing to a fist-pump moment in the end)
ME3 Shepard and Anderson watching the view at what *should* have been the ending (that sense of old soldiers watching it all end, felt like a moment of proper closure, and my last moment of emotional connection to the story)
Common thread: emotional content, be it happy, sad, melancholy or triumph. The ME3 endings were devoid of any such emotional connection.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, definitely art. Art is not clearly definable, thus why it is art and not science.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
With the added homosexual dialogues, there was definitely a disconnect. Noticable only because it jarred the hetero trend in prior games. Seemed forced, but otherwise not a big deal. Cortez was an interesting character in his own right, and Traynor was likeable enough. I didn't care for Vega too much, but admit that he is a fair representation of many "soldier-types" that I know. Hated the appearance changes for Ashley and Bailey.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Made some sense for the Sythesize ending, assuming "Synthesis" could be made to make sense in the first place.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No more or less than previous, but maybe more noticable because of the contrast to the darker emotional content.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Integrity - artistic or otherwise - was lost when the provided endings were in direct opposition to the established themes of the story and to their PR.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Nothing, provided that events leading to the stranding make sense (at present, they don't, though some arguments can be made for them)
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Sovereign's dialogue in ME1 should have been left as a principal point: "My kind transcends your very understanding..." "You cannot grasp the nature of our existence." This was good enough for me. Like Highlander: the more you explain it, the less sense it makes.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
In the sense that those franchises embraced bizzare and off-key finales, nothing is different. In the sense that head-scratching "wtf?" has become a common theme of sci-fi, it belittles the very real concepts that made those shows/games worth enjoying. Making an ending that is talked about is very different from making an ending that is *worth* talking about.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I don't think the two things are necessarily related. Tali's face was clearly rushed or considered a non-priority. This was likely a result of crunch-time allocation of assets, where Allers had already been created and Tali's "reveal" had not. Just a guess. I didn't find Allers/Chobots presence necessarily good or bad. It seemed reasonable to have embedded media aboard the ship, and Chobot was neither a great nor terrible choice for it.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Twice. Immediate second playthrough hoping that the ending of my first was somehow "flawed". Working slowly through a third now to test all options not taken previously, but lack motivation to push hard for it, knowing what awaits.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Would have been fine if it ended with a big bang after Shepard and Anderson had their final dialogue. Would have liked the option to push the big red button then without needing any further scenes. Destruction of the Mass Relays and all the problems with lack of dialogue to dispute the crazy star brat seemed poorly tacked-on and ill-considered at best.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
MP addition had more to do with rolling two projects together. ME3's replayablility is *severely* limited due to the lack of motivation to experience the ending again. I enjoy the multiplayer component a lot, but it needs new maps/enemies/objectives/playstyles to remain interesting.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
No opinion on Kai Leng, though personality changes may be result of trauma/indoc. (Didn't read the comic.) Pairing of Garrus and Tali is fine with me, though I haven't seen it yet (war makes strange relationships anyway). Joker fleeing the scene is part of a confusing end sequence and does not presently make sense. Without some notion of why/what/when this fleeing involved, there's no way to ascribe motivations to it. To provide counterpoint: the scenes depicting inter-crew banter aboard the ship show that character personalities and interactions were clearly considered important, and nothing about these seems forced or out of place. The "mini-loyalty" scenes aboard the Citadel were also clear examples of character motivations and depth being on display.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
Changed a little for the Battle of London, though as a distinctly different style of narrative, this didn't seem out of place at all. Changed after the Harbinger beam, but this seemed reasonable for a "last-push" narrative. Slid off-track with The Illusive Man, though this would fit an Indoc ending. Changed in a very forced way with the Catalyst/Star Child - most notably because of the inability to make sense of the situation or argue against its flawed logic. Without clarifying the "space magic" involved, it is hard to make sense of the choice or *why these are the choices*. I can understand the relays being destroyed for the Destroy and Synthesis endings (relays are Reaper-based, and Synthesis would presumably require massive energy), but it makes no sense for a Control ending.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I would pay for any DLC content that was of a quality on par with Shadow Broker, so long as there is some ending to look forward to. I don't mind Shepard dying, the Earth being scorched, even the Relays exploding (so long as it isn't a supernova blast), as long as it is shown that Shepard's presence/influence allows the galactic community to rebuild and survive. Weighed against all the future cyclical Reaper genocides, almost any price is acceptable, but the ultimate value and consequence of that choice needs to be made clear. Though the crew characters are important to me, I don't need an exposition on their lives, so long as I know the fleet isn't permanently stranded in the Sol system, I can work out the rest for myself. (On the other hand, knowing their fates wouldn't be a bad thing.)
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I think Indoctrination was an original consideration for a plot, and enough groundwork was laid to make the theory plausible, but I doubt it was BW's intention for it to be the "real" ending. If they decided to do so now, it would still require a proper ending. Keeping the Synthesis ending more or less as-is would be fine. Destruction needs a little work to make it clear that the Catalyst/Star Child lied, and removing the Normany crash would make that situation more sensible. The control ending may well mean Indoctrination, in which case the true ending would be irrelevant. There simply isn't enough to go on to make the current endings sensical. As far as ending rewrites, an expansion of the Battle for Earth/London that displayed war assets collected, a few mini-cinematics demonstrating the importance of prior decisions, and a post-Shepard ending that demonstrates the more immediate fallout of decisons made would be acceptable to me, absent a true change of the endings. I support the creation of new endings, if only to hope for a better (more sensible) outcome, but unless BioWare recognizes *why* the provided endings aren't adequate on an emotional or logical level, then it isn't likely that new endings would be any more satisfying.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought almost all of them (skipped one appearance pack and some gear packs I had no use for). Firewalker was dissapointing, and Overlord wasn't much better, but Arrival, Shadow Broker, Kasumi and Zaeed were well worth purchasing. Unless ME3 DLC can offer something beyond more missions leading to the same disasterous finale, I don't know if I would purchase them. I would *potentially* buy multiplayer DLC if the price were in the neighborhood of $5.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
The decrease in price is likely due to fan response. Stock drops need to be seen against a longer view and I haven't seen that the down-trend is out of place with overall stock drop for EA (or the industry in general). I do hope that the decrease in consumer confidence is felt and noted not just by EA, but the industry as a whole.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I have the CE, so it was included. I thought Javik and his story fit perfectly within the narrative and would not have wanted to proceed without him at key moments. I cannot imagine why Javik should be thought of as "separate" from the story, and EA/BW's choice to remove it - regardless of stated reasons - is rightly perceived as a shameless money-grab.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes. (Twice.)
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
n/a
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1: Liara. ME2: Tali or Liara (diferent playthroughs). Had a huge impact on my enjoyment of the games, providing a much more personal connection to the characters and consequences of Shepard's actions.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
In some cases, yes, others, just to be completionist.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Not really. I went with my gut, generally paragon, but occassionally "rough justice" needed to be dispensed.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Providing 4, cannot choose one to drop:
ME1 ending (triumphantly striding from the rubble, fist-pumping)
ME2 consoling Tali after the death of her father (Paragon interrupt; felt genuinely emotional)
ME3 arrival of the fleet in Earthspace (closest thing to a fist-pump moment in the end)
ME3 Shepard and Anderson watching the view at what *should* have been the ending (that sense of old soldiers watching it all end, felt like a moment of proper closure, and my last moment of emotional connection to the story)
Common thread: emotional content, be it happy, sad, melancholy or triumph. The ME3 endings were devoid of any such emotional connection.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, definitely art. Art is not clearly definable, thus why it is art and not science.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
With the added homosexual dialogues, there was definitely a disconnect. Noticable only because it jarred the hetero trend in prior games. Seemed forced, but otherwise not a big deal. Cortez was an interesting character in his own right, and Traynor was likeable enough. I didn't care for Vega too much, but admit that he is a fair representation of many "soldier-types" that I know. Hated the appearance changes for Ashley and Bailey.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Made some sense for the Sythesize ending, assuming "Synthesis" could be made to make sense in the first place.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No more or less than previous, but maybe more noticable because of the contrast to the darker emotional content.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Integrity - artistic or otherwise - was lost when the provided endings were in direct opposition to the established themes of the story and to their PR.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Nothing, provided that events leading to the stranding make sense (at present, they don't, though some arguments can be made for them)
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Sovereign's dialogue in ME1 should have been left as a principal point: "My kind transcends your very understanding..." "You cannot grasp the nature of our existence." This was good enough for me. Like Highlander: the more you explain it, the less sense it makes.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
In the sense that those franchises embraced bizzare and off-key finales, nothing is different. In the sense that head-scratching "wtf?" has become a common theme of sci-fi, it belittles the very real concepts that made those shows/games worth enjoying. Making an ending that is talked about is very different from making an ending that is *worth* talking about.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I don't think the two things are necessarily related. Tali's face was clearly rushed or considered a non-priority. This was likely a result of crunch-time allocation of assets, where Allers had already been created and Tali's "reveal" had not. Just a guess. I didn't find Allers/Chobots presence necessarily good or bad. It seemed reasonable to have embedded media aboard the ship, and Chobot was neither a great nor terrible choice for it.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Twice. Immediate second playthrough hoping that the ending of my first was somehow "flawed". Working slowly through a third now to test all options not taken previously, but lack motivation to push hard for it, knowing what awaits.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Would have been fine if it ended with a big bang after Shepard and Anderson had their final dialogue. Would have liked the option to push the big red button then without needing any further scenes. Destruction of the Mass Relays and all the problems with lack of dialogue to dispute the crazy star brat seemed poorly tacked-on and ill-considered at best.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
MP addition had more to do with rolling two projects together. ME3's replayablility is *severely* limited due to the lack of motivation to experience the ending again. I enjoy the multiplayer component a lot, but it needs new maps/enemies/objectives/playstyles to remain interesting.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
No opinion on Kai Leng, though personality changes may be result of trauma/indoc. (Didn't read the comic.) Pairing of Garrus and Tali is fine with me, though I haven't seen it yet (war makes strange relationships anyway). Joker fleeing the scene is part of a confusing end sequence and does not presently make sense. Without some notion of why/what/when this fleeing involved, there's no way to ascribe motivations to it. To provide counterpoint: the scenes depicting inter-crew banter aboard the ship show that character personalities and interactions were clearly considered important, and nothing about these seems forced or out of place. The "mini-loyalty" scenes aboard the Citadel were also clear examples of character motivations and depth being on display.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
Changed a little for the Battle of London, though as a distinctly different style of narrative, this didn't seem out of place at all. Changed after the Harbinger beam, but this seemed reasonable for a "last-push" narrative. Slid off-track with The Illusive Man, though this would fit an Indoc ending. Changed in a very forced way with the Catalyst/Star Child - most notably because of the inability to make sense of the situation or argue against its flawed logic. Without clarifying the "space magic" involved, it is hard to make sense of the choice or *why these are the choices*. I can understand the relays being destroyed for the Destroy and Synthesis endings (relays are Reaper-based, and Synthesis would presumably require massive energy), but it makes no sense for a Control ending.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I would pay for any DLC content that was of a quality on par with Shadow Broker, so long as there is some ending to look forward to. I don't mind Shepard dying, the Earth being scorched, even the Relays exploding (so long as it isn't a supernova blast), as long as it is shown that Shepard's presence/influence allows the galactic community to rebuild and survive. Weighed against all the future cyclical Reaper genocides, almost any price is acceptable, but the ultimate value and consequence of that choice needs to be made clear. Though the crew characters are important to me, I don't need an exposition on their lives, so long as I know the fleet isn't permanently stranded in the Sol system, I can work out the rest for myself. (On the other hand, knowing their fates wouldn't be a bad thing.)
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I think Indoctrination was an original consideration for a plot, and enough groundwork was laid to make the theory plausible, but I doubt it was BW's intention for it to be the "real" ending. If they decided to do so now, it would still require a proper ending. Keeping the Synthesis ending more or less as-is would be fine. Destruction needs a little work to make it clear that the Catalyst/Star Child lied, and removing the Normany crash would make that situation more sensible. The control ending may well mean Indoctrination, in which case the true ending would be irrelevant. There simply isn't enough to go on to make the current endings sensical. As far as ending rewrites, an expansion of the Battle for Earth/London that displayed war assets collected, a few mini-cinematics demonstrating the importance of prior decisions, and a post-Shepard ending that demonstrates the more immediate fallout of decisons made would be acceptable to me, absent a true change of the endings. I support the creation of new endings, if only to hope for a better (more sensible) outcome, but unless BioWare recognizes *why* the provided endings aren't adequate on an emotional or logical level, then it isn't likely that new endings would be any more satisfying.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought almost all of them (skipped one appearance pack and some gear packs I had no use for). Firewalker was dissapointing, and Overlord wasn't much better, but Arrival, Shadow Broker, Kasumi and Zaeed were well worth purchasing. Unless ME3 DLC can offer something beyond more missions leading to the same disasterous finale, I don't know if I would purchase them. I would *potentially* buy multiplayer DLC if the price were in the neighborhood of $5.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
The decrease in price is likely due to fan response. Stock drops need to be seen against a longer view and I haven't seen that the down-trend is out of place with overall stock drop for EA (or the industry in general). I do hope that the decrease in consumer confidence is felt and noted not just by EA, but the industry as a whole.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I have the CE, so it was included. I thought Javik and his story fit perfectly within the narrative and would not have wanted to proceed without him at key moments. I cannot imagine why Javik should be thought of as "separate" from the story, and EA/BW's choice to remove it - regardless of stated reasons - is rightly perceived as a shameless money-grab.
Modifié par Seijin8, 05 avril 2012 - 09:02 .
#35
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:15
alaska-the-1st
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National Geographic's BSN edition.
#36
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:15
TJX2045
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara, Miranda, Kaidan. The romances were interesting, so yes.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Mostly. Some characters I weren't absolutely in love with but I wanted everyone to survive just in case I would need them for something in ME3, which I was right about.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise force you to play one way over the other?
Not sure I get this question, but if you mean "Did the Renegade consequences make you want to go back and change your mind," no because I didn't play my canon character with the intent of being a Renegade. If I chose Renegade options, it was because I felt like the situation deserved it. He was mostly paragon however.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
1) Tali planning her home on Rannoch.
2) Mordin's Singing Easter Egg.
3) The Geth becoming sentient.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, they are a form at art. No, art is never stagnant and when it is presented for a client, it is sometimeschanged to appeal to the client's wants.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Not really. I felt all of the characters were still the same personality wise, except for Jacob after hearing how Femsheps who romanced him got treated. It just seemed so far from his established character and made him a stereotype. <_<
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I did not sense any "Adam and Eve" reference at the end at all. The only religious reference I got personally, before hearing about other opinions, was Shepard being a Jesus allegory.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
I thought there were a good amount of funny moments in the game. I can't particularly say which installment was the absolute funniest, but ME2 and ME3 were both pretty funny in some scenes. Humor aside, I still overthought and ruminated over the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Absolutely not. Art can change. The artistic integrity argument is invalid when many "artists" and novelists have changed their endings to please their customers when a majority of them were upset.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
With death, you have closure with that particular character. Their story is done. There is nothing left to know about them, and I am fine with that. With them being stranded, the only thing you know for sure is that they are alive...and stranded. You don't know for how long, if they will survive, how they will survive, what they will do, how they will rebuild and make a colony, or what Shepard's LI will do not knowing where he/she is or what happened after Harbinger's blast.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
In ME1 yes because the reapers were pretty much genocidal psychos seeing organics as genetic mutations and synthetics as perfection. This set up the harvesting in ME2 well because it would make sense that the Reapers would harvest species to create a "perfect" mix of both or "ascend" a particular species.
ME3 defies that logic by trying to make it seem like the reapers were 1) not individual thinkers like Sovereign in ME1 states and 2) They are saviours of the galaxy who try to save organics from being killed by synthetics (that they create who rebel against them) by killing organics themselves. In my opinion, paradoxes have no place in a plot because it just makes it even more nonsensical than throwing a new plot device and conflict in the story last minute.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Because there are no other games where you can create your character, see your character come to life, envision yourself as this character, put yourself in their shoes, become friends or enemies with particular people, pursue something deeper with one of the people you travel with to hell and back, etc. You wanted to know what happened to everyone you spent time caring about and empathizing about.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I have no idea. I always thought they knew what Tali's face would be when the first game was released. You see the shape of her face and some features to a certain extent through the part transparent helmet, so the idea that they wouldn't have had a face prepared or already rendered to reveal to us in the final game is pretty mind boggling to me.
I am sure that Chobot's role might have influenced their score, but I don't see IGN as a very reputable reviewer site anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I think using Chobot as an excuse for IGN's rating is a scapegoat, but I am sure there may have been other factors affecting it after seeing the polarization of the one IGN guy who called everyone "whiny babies" and the rest of the IGN staff pretty much disagreeing with him.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I've only managed to run through the entire game twice, and even that was pretty painful. I'm currently at the end with my Adept, but I stopped after talking to all my squadmates and my LI because the ending, aside from Anderson's well written death scene, makes me cringe. I'm working on the game with my first Renegade as well, but it's a slow slow sloowww playthrough.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was beautiful. BUT the ending was not good to me. There were no loose ends tied up. The only "loose end" tied up was the central conflict of the reapers, and even then the conflict that has been at the heart of the ME3 slogan "Take Back Earth" didn't even feel right. I didn't feel like I took Earth back, because Earth was in such poor condition and without the mass relays and the ability to sustain everyone stranded in the sol system, it is pretty much going to be nothing when all is said and done.
The biggest disappointment for me was how the characters you spent so much time with and made it with you to the final assault were not given closure. After the conversation with my LI giving me a feeling that I may actually live and be reunited with everyone, I wasn't expecting the perfect happy ending, but I was at least expecting a reunion, even if short or brief before Shepard's death, to give some closure or something. And even seeing what happens to the soldiers and allies I left in the warzone. I felt beguiled once I got to the credits and no closure was to be found other than a stargazer telling the child about Shepard's story.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I may still replay the other two games. As far as Mass Effect 3 goes, if the endings remain the same, I will only replay the game for romances and to relive the good parts of the game and the story. And then once I get to the dreaded Earth mission, if I can even make it there, I will stop playing the game once I finish speaking to all of my squad mates and headcannon the rest of the ending.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
The only problem that I have was Joker abandoning the fight, which was clearly very out of his character since he was willing to die on the Normandy at the beginning of ME2 when the Collectors attacked it for the first time. The idea that my non-romanced squad mates and friends get into relationships adds to the "realistic" feel of the universe. I doubt everyone would remain celibate while Shepard is in a relationship with someone else. Kai Leng is annoying and pisses me off, but that is what a villain is supposed to do. There are villains we find cool and like, but we still hated them when we wanted the hero to win. Kai Leng definitely won't become one of my favorite villains, but he does what he's there for. Antagonize the protagonist and be a thorn in the side. It makes it all the more satisfying when you finally kill him.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
After the Harbinger explosion. I thought that Shepard getting up and limping was all a dream and that I would be brought back into reality by my squad mates shaking me, trying to help me regain consciousness. I was so very disappointed when it seemed as if it was presented as the real thing...
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
YES. To get the bitter taste out of my mouth, I would. I already paid for the game. I can't get my money back. Since I can't return it, and I've invested so much time in the universe and caring so much for characters that I've had an emotional attachment to, I would prefer to have a new ending, even if that meant I would have to pay to see it. And then after doing so, I would be very careful about what future Bioware products I would consider purchasing as a PC gamer who is forced to be connected to the internet 24/7 even to just play the single player game.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I believe the Indoctrination Theory is very probable and makes the most sense. It also has a good amount of damning evidence. So, while the idea that we didn't get a completed game makes me upset, I feel less upset knowing that there might be an ending coming with the closure and satisfaction equal to ME1 and ME2.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
No. I did not buy ANY of the DLC. I preordered ME2 so I got Zaeed and the Cerberus Network for free. Aside from that, I did not purchase any of the remaining DLC that I did not recieve from the preorder.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think it may be exclusive to the gaming industry, because when a movie's ending is bad or a TV show's ending is bad, you didn't see yourself as one of those characters from day one. They didn't tout that your decisions and your consequences would influence how the story ended. Also TV and Film stories are final and only have one way of getting from point A to point B. Games like Mass Effect were created to prove this idea that "everyone gets the same experience and the ending" wrong. So with that being said, I do not think it will affect other forms of entertainment, BUT it will affect the gaming industry, and we will see the true aftermath of this controversy once final decisions from Bioware are made on the "content initiatives" and/or the ending DLC.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the producers alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I did not buy "From Ashes." I would have had it if I preordered Mass Effect 3, which I almost did. But I will say that it was very strange to drop a character as amazing and interesting as a Prothean from the main story, especially since it is actually on the disc. I would definitely be more upset if I bought the DLC before I beat the game. I already regret spending some of my money on MP store packs.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara, Miranda, Kaidan. The romances were interesting, so yes.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Mostly. Some characters I weren't absolutely in love with but I wanted everyone to survive just in case I would need them for something in ME3, which I was right about.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise force you to play one way over the other?
Not sure I get this question, but if you mean "Did the Renegade consequences make you want to go back and change your mind," no because I didn't play my canon character with the intent of being a Renegade. If I chose Renegade options, it was because I felt like the situation deserved it. He was mostly paragon however.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
1) Tali planning her home on Rannoch.
2) Mordin's Singing Easter Egg.
3) The Geth becoming sentient.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, they are a form at art. No, art is never stagnant and when it is presented for a client, it is sometimeschanged to appeal to the client's wants.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Not really. I felt all of the characters were still the same personality wise, except for Jacob after hearing how Femsheps who romanced him got treated. It just seemed so far from his established character and made him a stereotype. <_<
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I did not sense any "Adam and Eve" reference at the end at all. The only religious reference I got personally, before hearing about other opinions, was Shepard being a Jesus allegory.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
I thought there were a good amount of funny moments in the game. I can't particularly say which installment was the absolute funniest, but ME2 and ME3 were both pretty funny in some scenes. Humor aside, I still overthought and ruminated over the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Absolutely not. Art can change. The artistic integrity argument is invalid when many "artists" and novelists have changed their endings to please their customers when a majority of them were upset.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
With death, you have closure with that particular character. Their story is done. There is nothing left to know about them, and I am fine with that. With them being stranded, the only thing you know for sure is that they are alive...and stranded. You don't know for how long, if they will survive, how they will survive, what they will do, how they will rebuild and make a colony, or what Shepard's LI will do not knowing where he/she is or what happened after Harbinger's blast.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
In ME1 yes because the reapers were pretty much genocidal psychos seeing organics as genetic mutations and synthetics as perfection. This set up the harvesting in ME2 well because it would make sense that the Reapers would harvest species to create a "perfect" mix of both or "ascend" a particular species.
ME3 defies that logic by trying to make it seem like the reapers were 1) not individual thinkers like Sovereign in ME1 states and 2) They are saviours of the galaxy who try to save organics from being killed by synthetics (that they create who rebel against them) by killing organics themselves. In my opinion, paradoxes have no place in a plot because it just makes it even more nonsensical than throwing a new plot device and conflict in the story last minute.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Because there are no other games where you can create your character, see your character come to life, envision yourself as this character, put yourself in their shoes, become friends or enemies with particular people, pursue something deeper with one of the people you travel with to hell and back, etc. You wanted to know what happened to everyone you spent time caring about and empathizing about.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I have no idea. I always thought they knew what Tali's face would be when the first game was released. You see the shape of her face and some features to a certain extent through the part transparent helmet, so the idea that they wouldn't have had a face prepared or already rendered to reveal to us in the final game is pretty mind boggling to me.
I am sure that Chobot's role might have influenced their score, but I don't see IGN as a very reputable reviewer site anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I think using Chobot as an excuse for IGN's rating is a scapegoat, but I am sure there may have been other factors affecting it after seeing the polarization of the one IGN guy who called everyone "whiny babies" and the rest of the IGN staff pretty much disagreeing with him.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I've only managed to run through the entire game twice, and even that was pretty painful. I'm currently at the end with my Adept, but I stopped after talking to all my squadmates and my LI because the ending, aside from Anderson's well written death scene, makes me cringe. I'm working on the game with my first Renegade as well, but it's a slow slow sloowww playthrough.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was beautiful. BUT the ending was not good to me. There were no loose ends tied up. The only "loose end" tied up was the central conflict of the reapers, and even then the conflict that has been at the heart of the ME3 slogan "Take Back Earth" didn't even feel right. I didn't feel like I took Earth back, because Earth was in such poor condition and without the mass relays and the ability to sustain everyone stranded in the sol system, it is pretty much going to be nothing when all is said and done.
The biggest disappointment for me was how the characters you spent so much time with and made it with you to the final assault were not given closure. After the conversation with my LI giving me a feeling that I may actually live and be reunited with everyone, I wasn't expecting the perfect happy ending, but I was at least expecting a reunion, even if short or brief before Shepard's death, to give some closure or something. And even seeing what happens to the soldiers and allies I left in the warzone. I felt beguiled once I got to the credits and no closure was to be found other than a stargazer telling the child about Shepard's story.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I may still replay the other two games. As far as Mass Effect 3 goes, if the endings remain the same, I will only replay the game for romances and to relive the good parts of the game and the story. And then once I get to the dreaded Earth mission, if I can even make it there, I will stop playing the game once I finish speaking to all of my squad mates and headcannon the rest of the ending.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
The only problem that I have was Joker abandoning the fight, which was clearly very out of his character since he was willing to die on the Normandy at the beginning of ME2 when the Collectors attacked it for the first time. The idea that my non-romanced squad mates and friends get into relationships adds to the "realistic" feel of the universe. I doubt everyone would remain celibate while Shepard is in a relationship with someone else. Kai Leng is annoying and pisses me off, but that is what a villain is supposed to do. There are villains we find cool and like, but we still hated them when we wanted the hero to win. Kai Leng definitely won't become one of my favorite villains, but he does what he's there for. Antagonize the protagonist and be a thorn in the side. It makes it all the more satisfying when you finally kill him.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
After the Harbinger explosion. I thought that Shepard getting up and limping was all a dream and that I would be brought back into reality by my squad mates shaking me, trying to help me regain consciousness. I was so very disappointed when it seemed as if it was presented as the real thing...
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
YES. To get the bitter taste out of my mouth, I would. I already paid for the game. I can't get my money back. Since I can't return it, and I've invested so much time in the universe and caring so much for characters that I've had an emotional attachment to, I would prefer to have a new ending, even if that meant I would have to pay to see it. And then after doing so, I would be very careful about what future Bioware products I would consider purchasing as a PC gamer who is forced to be connected to the internet 24/7 even to just play the single player game.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I believe the Indoctrination Theory is very probable and makes the most sense. It also has a good amount of damning evidence. So, while the idea that we didn't get a completed game makes me upset, I feel less upset knowing that there might be an ending coming with the closure and satisfaction equal to ME1 and ME2.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
No. I did not buy ANY of the DLC. I preordered ME2 so I got Zaeed and the Cerberus Network for free. Aside from that, I did not purchase any of the remaining DLC that I did not recieve from the preorder.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think it may be exclusive to the gaming industry, because when a movie's ending is bad or a TV show's ending is bad, you didn't see yourself as one of those characters from day one. They didn't tout that your decisions and your consequences would influence how the story ended. Also TV and Film stories are final and only have one way of getting from point A to point B. Games like Mass Effect were created to prove this idea that "everyone gets the same experience and the ending" wrong. So with that being said, I do not think it will affect other forms of entertainment, BUT it will affect the gaming industry, and we will see the true aftermath of this controversy once final decisions from Bioware are made on the "content initiatives" and/or the ending DLC.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the producers alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I did not buy "From Ashes." I would have had it if I preordered Mass Effect 3, which I almost did. But I will say that it was very strange to drop a character as amazing and interesting as a Prothean from the main story, especially since it is actually on the disc. I would definitely be more upset if I bought the DLC before I beat the game. I already regret spending some of my money on MP store packs.
#37
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:17
Deflagratio
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes, yes I have.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
Not Applicable.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Indeed I have played the previous two primary installments of the Mass Effect franchise.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Basing this off my Female Shepard, since all other saves were lost after my Xbox360 died. For Mass Effect 1, I actually lead on both Kaiden Alenko and Dr. Liara T'soni. Liara T'soni won. In Mass Effect 2, I romanced Garrus Vakarian in the next two installments, while playing with Liara's emotions the whole time. I intentionally played this way to give Commander Shepard, a traditionally two-dimensional character some depth in personality and I felt it created a more compelling and relatable character in the end.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
During the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, I did indeed save all the members, including DLC characters such as Kasumi and Zaeed. However, that decision was made by several factors. But the answer varies from character to character. Mordin Solus, Garrus Vakarian, Thane Krios and Legion are examples of characters who's stories and personalities were the main influence. Other characters, like Jack, Jacob Taylor, and Miranda lawson weren't really compelling in the same sense.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
This answer sort of bleeds off of my romance answer, but interesting characters are never "Always" a certain way. I tailored the Commander Shepard in a way I felt was sincere to the situations presented.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
My favorite three memories of the franchice are as follows: One, Meeting Wrex on the Citadel for the first time, before assaulting Fists's hideout. Two, Learning the Identity of Archangel, and the ensuing conversation. Three, All of Priority: Tuchanka, but the final moments of Mordin Solus are gutwrenching and bittersweet if there could ever be a perfect definition of the word.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
I preface this by pointing out that I have very little formal education in artistic study. I'm slowly remedying that, but I have yet to develope the frame of reference required to form truly valid opinions. Having said that, I definitely believe games are a form of art, though I certainly understand the grey area and why there is resistance to its classification as true art. As long as it remains an expressive medium, it will remain as valid an art as cinema. As for if art is fluid or static? It's whatever the artist wants it to be. There is valid arguments both ways. You cannot apply the same rules to one medium as another.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
The only circumstances I believe come to mind in my experience that involve character rewrite, is Commander Shepard himself/herself. I do actually have a problem with a lot of the "Auto-dialog" in the game, as they often force Shepard into a path of behavior inconsistent with previous actions.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Maybe it's just my heathen brain, but the idea of such a blatantly religious reference in a game that has at worst, acknolwedge that religious beliefs exist, and at best, write off all previous Human Religions as evolutionary intervention by the Protheans is insulting on an almost base level.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
I don't feel the injection of Humor in Mass Effect 3 had anything to do with anything other than relieving the narrative urgency of the do-or-die themes of the game, adding a necessary element of narrative contrast. Considering all events from Priority: Earth 2 upwards are serious-as-cancer, I doubt there was ever any intent to deflect attention from the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Artistic integrity is only compromised if Bioware as writers do not wish to alter the ending, and are forced to by EA. If they do so willingly because they do feel their ending wasn't up to their expectations, they are not compromising their integrity, they're being given an opportunity few artists are ever afforded.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
What makes the infamous "Normandy Island" scene so different, is the context and plotholes that arrise. How did certain characters get into the Normandy, why was the Normandy not still part of Sword group attacking the Reapers, why is there a verdant garden world in the endless expanse of space positioned just perfectly for the Normandy to crash-land on to?
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Any player of the Silent Hill games can tell you, overwriting or overexplaining can destroy the terror in the terrifying. The Reapers are cannonically "Unknowable". Unlike a lot of the mustache-twirling corporate evil-guys that pass for antagonists, the Reapers make sense, to make absolutely no sense to the players.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
What makes the ending to Mass Effect 3 different as compared to the sub-par endings of other franchises? Mass Effect isn't like other Franchises. It didn't even capitalize on what made the franchise so special as compared to the avalanch of samey shooter-trilogies out there. And frankly, I thought Gears of War 3's ending had less technical failings than Mass Effect 3's ending. It was horrible, but it wasn't flawed in the same way.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
IGN as a sensationalit media cesspool makes for an easy and fun target. Jessica Chobot's character was mediocre, which is just a harsh way of saying blandly average surrounded by above average contemporaries. IGN's score itself doesn't differ from the metacritic, and Shamus Young had a good article about why that is. It has to do with how games are reviewed, and the difficulty of applying a numerical score to an opinion. Most reviewers opt for the "Foolproof" method of simply grading a game based on it's quantifiable technical executions. I do not fault IGN's score of Mass Effect 3, and I do not believe in sensationalist "Back Room Deals where Chobot does some compromises with EA that only a woman could do". I think they gave it the score they felt was fair.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I have beaten the game twice, replaying it once. The lowest number of almost any game I've ever owned.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I do not like the ending. It took me 4 "Playthroughs" of just the ending to understand that I wasn't confused, it was just horrible, it's biggest two failings are the complete dismantling of three games worth of choice/consequence/lore and the complete and utter lack of Closure. In the best case scenario, the "Indoctrination Theory" will be confirmed as canon, but that still leaves no closure and too many hanging threads.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
As I have previously stated, Mass Effect 3 has been one of my least replayed games to date, and the ending is definitely the main factor. It just seems so pointless to play a game centered around the player's choices, and then have those choices be ultimiately pointless in the end. I don't believe Multiplayer had anything to do with Bioware thinking the ending wouldn't cut it, it surely has more to do with EA wanting some justification for their hideous "Project Ten Dollar" to combat used game sales. They should have stuck with The Cerberus Network.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I personally haven't read the Mass Effect Novels or comics, so I can't comment on how Kai Leng has panned out as a character. As for Garrus and Tali's pairing, it's not exactly degrading, and it's certainly understandable, from both an emotional level, and the fake biology level in game. Joker is the one example I have to agree that degradation has occured. Nowhere in his psyche or personality would be a coward. After all, he flew through the Omega-4 Relay at the end of Mass Effect 2. He didn't ask questions, and he didn't think there was any chance of survival, but he did it. Joker would have kamikazed Harbinger before he retreated from the battle.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
There were small hiccups in the quality and pacing of Mass Effect 3's writing, but total narrative collapse does not occure until the final conversation in the game. That causes you to reflect back on every tiny detail with scrupulous precision. Benefit of the doubt is nonexistant at this point, and players question everything. If I did have to point to a spot before the ending, where quality starts to fail, it would be after Priority: Citadel, during the Cerberus attack.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I think a text epiloge would do a disservice to Bioware as developers, they could provide closure without a spoken word by just showing powerful imagery. Everything from Turians and Krogan rebuilding a ruined Palaven, to the Reapers leaving the orbit of a scorched and Lifeless Earth to consume a new planet.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I want to believe the Indoctrination theory is true. It would represent one of the pinnacle moments in gaming as an art. To be able to hold an entire audience in such suspense, leaving subtle clues for the true Mass Effect loyalists to pick up. I'll admit, the Indoctrination/Dream Theory has a lot of merit, and a lot of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise. But it's also equally plausible that Bioware just got lazy with the end. Even if Indoctrination were true, Mass Effect 3 still leaves the player with no closure at the resolution of the trilogy. Considering how important the characters are to the player at this point, that's a bigger crime than all the plotholes.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all the Downloadable content for Mass Effect 2. The only DLC I did not acquire was the free Firewalker pack. Despite being free, I didn't feel Firewalker was in line with the quality of the rest of the game, even at its worst. I was more than willing to purchase anything for Mass Effect 3 if it was of sufficient quality, and in some cases, Like Lair of the Shadow Broker, and Project: Overlord, the quality is superior to the majority of the main game, even offering experiences not available in the main story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
Who can truly predict the future? Poor writing has, and will always exist, stigma or no, literature or gaming. I would certainly hope it would be a factor in future aspects of all entertainment, but as long as dribble like Michael Bay's Transformers, or Call of Duty/Battlefield continue to post record annhilating numbers, I think we can safely assume no industry will really be impacted in a particularly significant way.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
As previously stated, I will buy any DLC for any game as long as the quality is sufficient. I gave Bioware the benefit of the doubt, and got "From Ashes" on day1. The DLC itself was actually quite poor, and I felt the character sticks out too much, without attracting enough attention given his significance. In whole, I think the game is better without Javik. EA's buisness practice is just that, it's a business practice. They don't care about the customer beyond how much money they can consistently milk them for. You can hardly fault them though, that's the whole reason publishers exist. "Day One DLC" and the poor ending of Mass Effect 3 are two seperate issues, anyone who uses one as a rallying call for the other is as lazy and uninspired as the ending or Day one DLC they hate so much.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes, yes I have.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
Not Applicable.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Indeed I have played the previous two primary installments of the Mass Effect franchise.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Basing this off my Female Shepard, since all other saves were lost after my Xbox360 died. For Mass Effect 1, I actually lead on both Kaiden Alenko and Dr. Liara T'soni. Liara T'soni won. In Mass Effect 2, I romanced Garrus Vakarian in the next two installments, while playing with Liara's emotions the whole time. I intentionally played this way to give Commander Shepard, a traditionally two-dimensional character some depth in personality and I felt it created a more compelling and relatable character in the end.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
During the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, I did indeed save all the members, including DLC characters such as Kasumi and Zaeed. However, that decision was made by several factors. But the answer varies from character to character. Mordin Solus, Garrus Vakarian, Thane Krios and Legion are examples of characters who's stories and personalities were the main influence. Other characters, like Jack, Jacob Taylor, and Miranda lawson weren't really compelling in the same sense.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
This answer sort of bleeds off of my romance answer, but interesting characters are never "Always" a certain way. I tailored the Commander Shepard in a way I felt was sincere to the situations presented.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
My favorite three memories of the franchice are as follows: One, Meeting Wrex on the Citadel for the first time, before assaulting Fists's hideout. Two, Learning the Identity of Archangel, and the ensuing conversation. Three, All of Priority: Tuchanka, but the final moments of Mordin Solus are gutwrenching and bittersweet if there could ever be a perfect definition of the word.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
I preface this by pointing out that I have very little formal education in artistic study. I'm slowly remedying that, but I have yet to develope the frame of reference required to form truly valid opinions. Having said that, I definitely believe games are a form of art, though I certainly understand the grey area and why there is resistance to its classification as true art. As long as it remains an expressive medium, it will remain as valid an art as cinema. As for if art is fluid or static? It's whatever the artist wants it to be. There is valid arguments both ways. You cannot apply the same rules to one medium as another.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
The only circumstances I believe come to mind in my experience that involve character rewrite, is Commander Shepard himself/herself. I do actually have a problem with a lot of the "Auto-dialog" in the game, as they often force Shepard into a path of behavior inconsistent with previous actions.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Maybe it's just my heathen brain, but the idea of such a blatantly religious reference in a game that has at worst, acknolwedge that religious beliefs exist, and at best, write off all previous Human Religions as evolutionary intervention by the Protheans is insulting on an almost base level.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
I don't feel the injection of Humor in Mass Effect 3 had anything to do with anything other than relieving the narrative urgency of the do-or-die themes of the game, adding a necessary element of narrative contrast. Considering all events from Priority: Earth 2 upwards are serious-as-cancer, I doubt there was ever any intent to deflect attention from the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
Artistic integrity is only compromised if Bioware as writers do not wish to alter the ending, and are forced to by EA. If they do so willingly because they do feel their ending wasn't up to their expectations, they are not compromising their integrity, they're being given an opportunity few artists are ever afforded.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
What makes the infamous "Normandy Island" scene so different, is the context and plotholes that arrise. How did certain characters get into the Normandy, why was the Normandy not still part of Sword group attacking the Reapers, why is there a verdant garden world in the endless expanse of space positioned just perfectly for the Normandy to crash-land on to?
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Any player of the Silent Hill games can tell you, overwriting or overexplaining can destroy the terror in the terrifying. The Reapers are cannonically "Unknowable". Unlike a lot of the mustache-twirling corporate evil-guys that pass for antagonists, the Reapers make sense, to make absolutely no sense to the players.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
What makes the ending to Mass Effect 3 different as compared to the sub-par endings of other franchises? Mass Effect isn't like other Franchises. It didn't even capitalize on what made the franchise so special as compared to the avalanch of samey shooter-trilogies out there. And frankly, I thought Gears of War 3's ending had less technical failings than Mass Effect 3's ending. It was horrible, but it wasn't flawed in the same way.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
IGN as a sensationalit media cesspool makes for an easy and fun target. Jessica Chobot's character was mediocre, which is just a harsh way of saying blandly average surrounded by above average contemporaries. IGN's score itself doesn't differ from the metacritic, and Shamus Young had a good article about why that is. It has to do with how games are reviewed, and the difficulty of applying a numerical score to an opinion. Most reviewers opt for the "Foolproof" method of simply grading a game based on it's quantifiable technical executions. I do not fault IGN's score of Mass Effect 3, and I do not believe in sensationalist "Back Room Deals where Chobot does some compromises with EA that only a woman could do". I think they gave it the score they felt was fair.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I have beaten the game twice, replaying it once. The lowest number of almost any game I've ever owned.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I do not like the ending. It took me 4 "Playthroughs" of just the ending to understand that I wasn't confused, it was just horrible, it's biggest two failings are the complete dismantling of three games worth of choice/consequence/lore and the complete and utter lack of Closure. In the best case scenario, the "Indoctrination Theory" will be confirmed as canon, but that still leaves no closure and too many hanging threads.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
As I have previously stated, Mass Effect 3 has been one of my least replayed games to date, and the ending is definitely the main factor. It just seems so pointless to play a game centered around the player's choices, and then have those choices be ultimiately pointless in the end. I don't believe Multiplayer had anything to do with Bioware thinking the ending wouldn't cut it, it surely has more to do with EA wanting some justification for their hideous "Project Ten Dollar" to combat used game sales. They should have stuck with The Cerberus Network.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I personally haven't read the Mass Effect Novels or comics, so I can't comment on how Kai Leng has panned out as a character. As for Garrus and Tali's pairing, it's not exactly degrading, and it's certainly understandable, from both an emotional level, and the fake biology level in game. Joker is the one example I have to agree that degradation has occured. Nowhere in his psyche or personality would be a coward. After all, he flew through the Omega-4 Relay at the end of Mass Effect 2. He didn't ask questions, and he didn't think there was any chance of survival, but he did it. Joker would have kamikazed Harbinger before he retreated from the battle.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
There were small hiccups in the quality and pacing of Mass Effect 3's writing, but total narrative collapse does not occure until the final conversation in the game. That causes you to reflect back on every tiny detail with scrupulous precision. Benefit of the doubt is nonexistant at this point, and players question everything. If I did have to point to a spot before the ending, where quality starts to fail, it would be after Priority: Citadel, during the Cerberus attack.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I think a text epiloge would do a disservice to Bioware as developers, they could provide closure without a spoken word by just showing powerful imagery. Everything from Turians and Krogan rebuilding a ruined Palaven, to the Reapers leaving the orbit of a scorched and Lifeless Earth to consume a new planet.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I want to believe the Indoctrination theory is true. It would represent one of the pinnacle moments in gaming as an art. To be able to hold an entire audience in such suspense, leaving subtle clues for the true Mass Effect loyalists to pick up. I'll admit, the Indoctrination/Dream Theory has a lot of merit, and a lot of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise. But it's also equally plausible that Bioware just got lazy with the end. Even if Indoctrination were true, Mass Effect 3 still leaves the player with no closure at the resolution of the trilogy. Considering how important the characters are to the player at this point, that's a bigger crime than all the plotholes.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all the Downloadable content for Mass Effect 2. The only DLC I did not acquire was the free Firewalker pack. Despite being free, I didn't feel Firewalker was in line with the quality of the rest of the game, even at its worst. I was more than willing to purchase anything for Mass Effect 3 if it was of sufficient quality, and in some cases, Like Lair of the Shadow Broker, and Project: Overlord, the quality is superior to the majority of the main game, even offering experiences not available in the main story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
Who can truly predict the future? Poor writing has, and will always exist, stigma or no, literature or gaming. I would certainly hope it would be a factor in future aspects of all entertainment, but as long as dribble like Michael Bay's Transformers, or Call of Duty/Battlefield continue to post record annhilating numbers, I think we can safely assume no industry will really be impacted in a particularly significant way.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
As previously stated, I will buy any DLC for any game as long as the quality is sufficient. I gave Bioware the benefit of the doubt, and got "From Ashes" on day1. The DLC itself was actually quite poor, and I felt the character sticks out too much, without attracting enough attention given his significance. In whole, I think the game is better without Javik. EA's buisness practice is just that, it's a business practice. They don't care about the customer beyond how much money they can consistently milk them for. You can hardly fault them though, that's the whole reason publishers exist. "Day One DLC" and the poor ending of Mass Effect 3 are two seperate issues, anyone who uses one as a rallying call for the other is as lazy and uninspired as the ending or Day one DLC they hate so much.
Modifié par Deflagratio, 05 avril 2012 - 08:18 .
#38
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:19
Hudathan
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- Members
- 2 144 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1 Liara, ME2 Tali, ME3 Liara. I liked the addition of Tali as a potential love interest since she was the only interesting female character for me besides Liara. And it was entertaining to see that triangle play out in ME3.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
I was always determined to be a good leader, but spending more time with the characters gave me additional motivation and a personal stake in how the ending played out.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
It was more of the renegade personality that drove me to play a mostly paragon character. It didn't stop me from making certain key renegade choices from time to time and only served to heighten the drama of those moments.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Losing a squad member on Virmire, performing a flawless Suicide Mission, and resolving the Genophage. They are examples of what makes the series special to me in that victory often carries a steep price which makes those few moments when you get it right even more special.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
I believe video games are a combination of many different forms of art and benefit from the strengths of each. I believe art is fluid and should encompase everything that flows from a creative mind meant to evoke a particular emotion.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I didn't have any problem with any of the characters.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I didn't choose the Synthesis ending personally. And even if I did, I would not have equated it to a biblical reference because that's not how my thought process works.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the
ending?
I think the humor was well done and served to both lighten the mood and provide squad interaction on a level that was sorely missed in the previous games.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
I believe in adding, not changing. The fans liked Garrus and Tali, so their respective roles were developed further in ME2 for those who wanted to see more but also in a way that was non-intrusive for those who didn't see them as more than support characters. At the end of the day, it did not interfere with the major creative vision of the writers. On the other hand, wanting the Illusive Man to become a positive character would be the complete opposite of how the writers wanted his story to go, and such a request would be unreasonable.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of tieing close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Death is final, whereas leaving survivors in limbo is a teaser/cliffhanger. I can sympathize with the desire to see the main characters of the game and how the events of the ending affected their immediate futures.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
For me, the pragmatism of the Reapers, their mysterious origins, and their relation to the Citadel and the mass relays would have been a huge question mark if the third game in a trilogy did not address it in some way. We would be having conversations about 'what happened to the Citadel and the relays being Reaper technology' instead of dark matter.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
It's all about context. The ending of ME3 carries with it everything that the player character has experienced in his/her journey through the series before they are able to make that final decision based on personal belief, and that journey is entirely unique to Mass Effect.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I personally think that showing Tali's face at all was fan feedback gone wrong and should have never been done, even if there are players out there who would be disappointed. I also see Jessica Chobot's character as a non issue, and IGN is still comprised of individual human beings whose job it is to give their opinions.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I beat it with my only character and am currently watching my g/f play hers.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I enjoy the theme of the ending but feel that the execution could be improved. Although many players are not interested in the reasoning behind the Reapers that Bioware offered, it is a concept rarely seen in games and fits nicely with what we've been told and shown so far. It also echoes those sci-fi works which Mass Effect clearly pays homage to.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I don't personally replay most games from scratch. With a good story, one experience is usually good enough for my memories, not to mention the issue of time. I will however make the time for additional content if the quality is consistent with the main product. As for multiplayer, I have no opinion on the matter. I find it enjoyable and don't personally feel that it's a factor one way or another.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
Garrus and Tali hooking up is consistent in my book, and Joker's scene during the ending is more of an issue of clarification rather than an inconsistency. Kai Leng was all he needed to be, an enforcer for Illusive Man with a mean streak. The fact that his actions in the Citadel and Thessia missions has caused near universal vitriol in the player base is an indication of his effectiveness as an antagonist.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I've actually always disliked the openings of most if not all Bioware games, they've always served as an uncomfortable combination of tutorial and exposition for me. It's not until their games open up that the unique qualities begin to shine through, and ME3 was the same way for me. Once I got past the opening the rest of the game was great.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I personally dislike text based epilogues of any kind, and there is nothing about the current endings that could be improved for me with just some simple words.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Again, I see this as a clarification issue. Had the ending cutscene been a full fledged sequence rather than a montage of events, there would not be so much misunderstanding and debate over simply what happened. I believe that Bioware's full intention was for players to accept the current ending at face value and to speculate over where the story might go next, not to debate about whether if it's even real. It would be good for Bioware to flesh out the ending so that everyone can get on the same page regarding the Normandy, Shepard's fate, and the destruction of the relays. There will always be people who disagree with the entire theme of the ending but alternate endings with different structures seem implausible.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought them all, simply because I enjoyed the game and wanted more content.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I don't think most franchises will ever reach the height of fandom that Mass Effect enjoys for this to become a regular occurance in the industry.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I think that if a game can be released with day 1 DLC, then it can be delayed long enough to include that content in the game. The fact that it was included in the Collector's Edition this time around made the purchase easier to justify, but in general it's always better for developers to hold off on releasing the game if it means giving the fans the most for their buck.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1 Liara, ME2 Tali, ME3 Liara. I liked the addition of Tali as a potential love interest since she was the only interesting female character for me besides Liara. And it was entertaining to see that triangle play out in ME3.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
I was always determined to be a good leader, but spending more time with the characters gave me additional motivation and a personal stake in how the ending played out.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
It was more of the renegade personality that drove me to play a mostly paragon character. It didn't stop me from making certain key renegade choices from time to time and only served to heighten the drama of those moments.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Losing a squad member on Virmire, performing a flawless Suicide Mission, and resolving the Genophage. They are examples of what makes the series special to me in that victory often carries a steep price which makes those few moments when you get it right even more special.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
I believe video games are a combination of many different forms of art and benefit from the strengths of each. I believe art is fluid and should encompase everything that flows from a creative mind meant to evoke a particular emotion.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I didn't have any problem with any of the characters.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
I didn't choose the Synthesis ending personally. And even if I did, I would not have equated it to a biblical reference because that's not how my thought process works.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the
ending?
I think the humor was well done and served to both lighten the mood and provide squad interaction on a level that was sorely missed in the previous games.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
I believe in adding, not changing. The fans liked Garrus and Tali, so their respective roles were developed further in ME2 for those who wanted to see more but also in a way that was non-intrusive for those who didn't see them as more than support characters. At the end of the day, it did not interfere with the major creative vision of the writers. On the other hand, wanting the Illusive Man to become a positive character would be the complete opposite of how the writers wanted his story to go, and such a request would be unreasonable.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of tieing close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Death is final, whereas leaving survivors in limbo is a teaser/cliffhanger. I can sympathize with the desire to see the main characters of the game and how the events of the ending affected their immediate futures.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
For me, the pragmatism of the Reapers, their mysterious origins, and their relation to the Citadel and the mass relays would have been a huge question mark if the third game in a trilogy did not address it in some way. We would be having conversations about 'what happened to the Citadel and the relays being Reaper technology' instead of dark matter.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
It's all about context. The ending of ME3 carries with it everything that the player character has experienced in his/her journey through the series before they are able to make that final decision based on personal belief, and that journey is entirely unique to Mass Effect.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I personally think that showing Tali's face at all was fan feedback gone wrong and should have never been done, even if there are players out there who would be disappointed. I also see Jessica Chobot's character as a non issue, and IGN is still comprised of individual human beings whose job it is to give their opinions.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I beat it with my only character and am currently watching my g/f play hers.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I enjoy the theme of the ending but feel that the execution could be improved. Although many players are not interested in the reasoning behind the Reapers that Bioware offered, it is a concept rarely seen in games and fits nicely with what we've been told and shown so far. It also echoes those sci-fi works which Mass Effect clearly pays homage to.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I don't personally replay most games from scratch. With a good story, one experience is usually good enough for my memories, not to mention the issue of time. I will however make the time for additional content if the quality is consistent with the main product. As for multiplayer, I have no opinion on the matter. I find it enjoyable and don't personally feel that it's a factor one way or another.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
Garrus and Tali hooking up is consistent in my book, and Joker's scene during the ending is more of an issue of clarification rather than an inconsistency. Kai Leng was all he needed to be, an enforcer for Illusive Man with a mean streak. The fact that his actions in the Citadel and Thessia missions has caused near universal vitriol in the player base is an indication of his effectiveness as an antagonist.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I've actually always disliked the openings of most if not all Bioware games, they've always served as an uncomfortable combination of tutorial and exposition for me. It's not until their games open up that the unique qualities begin to shine through, and ME3 was the same way for me. Once I got past the opening the rest of the game was great.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I personally dislike text based epilogues of any kind, and there is nothing about the current endings that could be improved for me with just some simple words.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Again, I see this as a clarification issue. Had the ending cutscene been a full fledged sequence rather than a montage of events, there would not be so much misunderstanding and debate over simply what happened. I believe that Bioware's full intention was for players to accept the current ending at face value and to speculate over where the story might go next, not to debate about whether if it's even real. It would be good for Bioware to flesh out the ending so that everyone can get on the same page regarding the Normandy, Shepard's fate, and the destruction of the relays. There will always be people who disagree with the entire theme of the ending but alternate endings with different structures seem implausible.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought them all, simply because I enjoyed the game and wanted more content.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I don't think most franchises will ever reach the height of fandom that Mass Effect enjoys for this to become a regular occurance in the industry.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I think that if a game can be released with day 1 DLC, then it can be delayed long enough to include that content in the game. The fact that it was included in the Collector's Edition this time around made the purchase easier to justify, but in general it's always better for developers to hold off on releasing the game if it means giving the fans the most for their buck.
#39
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:23
Gammazero79
-
- Members
- 102 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. yes
2. N/A
3. Yes
4. 1:Ashley 2&3:Tali Yes it added a romantic subtext that made Shepard seem more human
5. Yes also the added playtime and backstory
6. Not sure what you meant by this question I played mostly paragon with a little renegade thrown in for flavor
7. ME1: The Virmire decision ME2:Finding Garrus on Omega ME3:Mordins sacrifice
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Yes,Fluid
2. I've never heard of that but I guess Jacob and Miranda felt a little rewritten but they were pretty bland to begin with.
3. No it was utterly rediculous nonsense that didn't fit with Mass Effect
4. No ME3 was rightfully serious. I didn't mind it in the last 2 games but this game was about the 11th hour it was do or die time. I could tell they tried to throw in some funny bits with vega but that annoyed me more than anything. The comedy should and was kept to dry observational humor for the most part.
5. No not at all. If anything they should be worried about the personal integrity of there writers.
6. Mordins sacrifice, Legions sacrifice, Thanes heroic fight, Tali's suicide, Wrex's revenge those are the deaths of heros and martyrs they meant something. Stranding my crew on a planet to die of starvation and exposure is not a fitting end to characters who are just as much a hero as Shepard.
7. Maybe I didn't really mind it but the reasons they gave were asinine at best
8. Only thing I can say here without going on a rant is Mass Effect is NOT Deus Ex
9. Yes fact that they would decide to take the time to render a character for chobot and do a ten minute shop for a character who has been with the franchise since the begining is rediculous. Whoever made that executive decision should be looking for another job currently. As for the possibility of the Chobot/IGN connection I'm not even going to speculate
Section 3: The Endings
1. I beat it on March 10th and joined the Retake movement on the 11th. I honestly couldn't stand a second play through knowing what's in store for me.
2. The ending is terrible. If I had it my way everything after the Cerberus HQ would be retconed out of existance. It feels like everything after the FOB on earth is the ending to some other game with Mass Effect Characters.
3. Honestly if the ending wasn't trash I would probably be on my 3rd playthrouh and would have at least tried the multiplayer. I hope Bioware didn't think that Multiplayer would make up for a terrible campaign end.
4. I don't have a problem with kai lang other than he had zero character development in the game. Garrus and Tali not really a problem. However Joker running from the battle I take issue with if bioware intended to write that kind of character in Joker they did a poor job of it.
5. Around the final mission but it's kinda hard to say as there are a few nuggets of good in the final mission
6. I would pay for new ending and would hope it came with epiloge and all
7. If the ending was real it was really bad. I like Indoc theory and hope it's true but at the end of the day it really just boils down to fans putting more effort into the end than Bioware did and forging hope out of plotholes.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Yes I bought every scrap of dlc I could get other than a few costume packs
2. I hope that if this whole fiasco goes south and we loose a great company and a great IP that EA and other companies will learn from what happened and not rush games out before they are ready.
3. Yes I bought it. I think had the endings not been terrible there would have been a lot more anger over day one dlc and the quick shop of Tali's face but as they say "We have bigger fish to fry"
best of luck on your paper please publish it somewhere when you get done I'd like to read it.
1. yes
2. N/A
3. Yes
4. 1:Ashley 2&3:Tali Yes it added a romantic subtext that made Shepard seem more human
5. Yes also the added playtime and backstory
6. Not sure what you meant by this question I played mostly paragon with a little renegade thrown in for flavor
7. ME1: The Virmire decision ME2:Finding Garrus on Omega ME3:Mordins sacrifice
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Yes,Fluid
2. I've never heard of that but I guess Jacob and Miranda felt a little rewritten but they were pretty bland to begin with.
3. No it was utterly rediculous nonsense that didn't fit with Mass Effect
4. No ME3 was rightfully serious. I didn't mind it in the last 2 games but this game was about the 11th hour it was do or die time. I could tell they tried to throw in some funny bits with vega but that annoyed me more than anything. The comedy should and was kept to dry observational humor for the most part.
5. No not at all. If anything they should be worried about the personal integrity of there writers.
6. Mordins sacrifice, Legions sacrifice, Thanes heroic fight, Tali's suicide, Wrex's revenge those are the deaths of heros and martyrs they meant something. Stranding my crew on a planet to die of starvation and exposure is not a fitting end to characters who are just as much a hero as Shepard.
7. Maybe I didn't really mind it but the reasons they gave were asinine at best
8. Only thing I can say here without going on a rant is Mass Effect is NOT Deus Ex
9. Yes fact that they would decide to take the time to render a character for chobot and do a ten minute shop for a character who has been with the franchise since the begining is rediculous. Whoever made that executive decision should be looking for another job currently. As for the possibility of the Chobot/IGN connection I'm not even going to speculate
Section 3: The Endings
1. I beat it on March 10th and joined the Retake movement on the 11th. I honestly couldn't stand a second play through knowing what's in store for me.
2. The ending is terrible. If I had it my way everything after the Cerberus HQ would be retconed out of existance. It feels like everything after the FOB on earth is the ending to some other game with Mass Effect Characters.
3. Honestly if the ending wasn't trash I would probably be on my 3rd playthrouh and would have at least tried the multiplayer. I hope Bioware didn't think that Multiplayer would make up for a terrible campaign end.
4. I don't have a problem with kai lang other than he had zero character development in the game. Garrus and Tali not really a problem. However Joker running from the battle I take issue with if bioware intended to write that kind of character in Joker they did a poor job of it.
5. Around the final mission but it's kinda hard to say as there are a few nuggets of good in the final mission
6. I would pay for new ending and would hope it came with epiloge and all
7. If the ending was real it was really bad. I like Indoc theory and hope it's true but at the end of the day it really just boils down to fans putting more effort into the end than Bioware did and forging hope out of plotholes.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Yes I bought every scrap of dlc I could get other than a few costume packs
2. I hope that if this whole fiasco goes south and we loose a great company and a great IP that EA and other companies will learn from what happened and not rush games out before they are ready.
3. Yes I bought it. I think had the endings not been terrible there would have been a lot more anger over day one dlc and the quick shop of Tali's face but as they say "We have bigger fish to fry"
best of luck on your paper please publish it somewhere when you get done I'd like to read it.
#40
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:24
DrowVampyre
-
- Members
- 387 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
I have.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes, many times each.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara in both usually - I also did one where Shepard was single in ME1 and romanced Garrus in ME2. Probably, but differently, though at heart I'me a Liara fangirl.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Yes, though moreso their relationships than their specific stories.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No, I've played full paragon, full renegade, and a mix.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Lair of the Shadow Broker, Rannoch, Ilium. Not especially, they just all hit me as very emotional, and with beautiful settings.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
A form, yes, but like every other form one that has its own rules, trends, and parameters. I believe that this form of art is fluid.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
No, I think the characters were well written, for the most part.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No. Neither Joker nor EDI were the first organic/synthetic, nor the first to have coexisted peacefully. It was a forced reference that has no place.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Mmm...possibly. It had some of the most memorable humorous moments, at any rate. I think it was to lighten the mood.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No, it would show a lot of maturity and a connection with their fanbase few companies have.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
THe necessary deaths occur for a reason, and happen in a heroic way. Stranding the crew leaves them to starve to death sight unseen, and makes no sense to begin with even so.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
It should have been left alone or, failing that, presented by Harbinger, not a random AI that had never been even hinted at.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Firstly, those plot holes didn't make their protagonists into the galaxy's worst mass murderer. Secondly, there are plans to continue the Mass Effect universe, which the current ending completely invalidates. Thirdly, Mass Effect is a series built around chocie, whose story changes depending on each individual player's actions and decisions - the developers themselves said it's as much the player's story as theirs to tell, while those other series were purely passively consumed, unaffected by the choice of the viewer.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat?
Honestly, I don't know, but it was a very bad decision. I think Jessican Chobot's role in the game didn't affect IGN's review scores very much, however the very close contact IGN had, partially manifested in Ms. Chobot's role, had a very strong influence on it. I think the Retake movement is correct in that IGN was influenced and very partial, but not that it was specificaly Ms. Chobot's role that caused such.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. I haven't replayed it, specifically because of how bad the ending is - I had intended to play through immediately at least twice, and then begin replaying the entire series from the start.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was, in a word, abysmal. I have never seen an ending as bad in any medium, ever. It never should have been released - I would expect better from a middle-school student. It desperately needs to be changed. I have that opinion because of how truly horrid the ending is - in an otherwise amazing series, the last five minutes utterly ruin the franchise.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Mass Effect 3 is, for me, as it stands, unreplayable. It's the horribleness of the ending that causes it, but had Bioware not been so quiet, acknowledged that they made a mistake, and detailed how they plan to fix it, it would be enough to make it playable again, because I would know that the real ending is coming and will be far better than the excrement that's currently there. I think they added multiplayer simply to cash in on the craze, which i have no problem with, save that it should have much less if any effect on single player.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I think all of these are perfectly fine except Joker abandoning the battle - that is absolutely ridiculous. This is the same pilot who flew through the Omega Relay expecting it to be a one-way trip, without any qualms about doing so, and who knows more about the Reapers than almost anyone else in the galaxy, so he would have no illusions about being able to run and hide.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
After the conversations on Earth. It was amazing up until then, but began to fray afterward, slowly at first, but dramatically quickening at the run for the beam. Even then, it still retained enough coherency to not be terribly jarring up until the elevator to the Starchild, at which point it completely unravelled.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
Yes. A text epilogue of the current ending is barely better than nothing at all, and quite frankly an insult to the story, the characters, the setting, and the fans.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)?
I think that it's supposed to be real, but treating it as a dream makes much more sense - which really says something about how bad it is. I believe this due to the statements Bioware has made, and the beating they have taken publically - if it was planned to be a dream, I can't imagine they wouldn't have come forward by now with that information to salvage things. THe people who support the Retake movement, of which I am one, don't necessarily ignore the last sequence. Some do, but most are all too aware of it, painfully so, which is what drives us to push for something better.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all of them excewpt one of the appearance packs, solely because I preferred the default appearance of those characters. I did this both on PC and Xbox.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think it will mostly be in the gaming industry, but the widespread nature of the Retake movement could act as an example for fans of other media, who, if they were to do something similar, could have a similar impact on that form.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?
Yes, I bought the collector's edition. And I think they somewhat did, but had the ending not been so atrocious, it would have been something a few people grumbled over but ultimately had little impact. Now, it is additional fuel to the fire the ending caused.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes.
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
I have.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes, many times each.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara in both usually - I also did one where Shepard was single in ME1 and romanced Garrus in ME2. Probably, but differently, though at heart I'me a Liara fangirl.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Yes, though moreso their relationships than their specific stories.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No, I've played full paragon, full renegade, and a mix.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Lair of the Shadow Broker, Rannoch, Ilium. Not especially, they just all hit me as very emotional, and with beautiful settings.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
A form, yes, but like every other form one that has its own rules, trends, and parameters. I believe that this form of art is fluid.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
No, I think the characters were well written, for the most part.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No. Neither Joker nor EDI were the first organic/synthetic, nor the first to have coexisted peacefully. It was a forced reference that has no place.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Mmm...possibly. It had some of the most memorable humorous moments, at any rate. I think it was to lighten the mood.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No, it would show a lot of maturity and a connection with their fanbase few companies have.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
THe necessary deaths occur for a reason, and happen in a heroic way. Stranding the crew leaves them to starve to death sight unseen, and makes no sense to begin with even so.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
It should have been left alone or, failing that, presented by Harbinger, not a random AI that had never been even hinted at.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Firstly, those plot holes didn't make their protagonists into the galaxy's worst mass murderer. Secondly, there are plans to continue the Mass Effect universe, which the current ending completely invalidates. Thirdly, Mass Effect is a series built around chocie, whose story changes depending on each individual player's actions and decisions - the developers themselves said it's as much the player's story as theirs to tell, while those other series were purely passively consumed, unaffected by the choice of the viewer.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the Retake Movement is correct in making this presumption, or is it bias and looking for a scapegoat?
Honestly, I don't know, but it was a very bad decision. I think Jessican Chobot's role in the game didn't affect IGN's review scores very much, however the very close contact IGN had, partially manifested in Ms. Chobot's role, had a very strong influence on it. I think the Retake movement is correct in that IGN was influenced and very partial, but not that it was specificaly Ms. Chobot's role that caused such.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. I haven't replayed it, specifically because of how bad the ending is - I had intended to play through immediately at least twice, and then begin replaying the entire series from the start.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was, in a word, abysmal. I have never seen an ending as bad in any medium, ever. It never should have been released - I would expect better from a middle-school student. It desperately needs to be changed. I have that opinion because of how truly horrid the ending is - in an otherwise amazing series, the last five minutes utterly ruin the franchise.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Mass Effect 3 is, for me, as it stands, unreplayable. It's the horribleness of the ending that causes it, but had Bioware not been so quiet, acknowledged that they made a mistake, and detailed how they plan to fix it, it would be enough to make it playable again, because I would know that the real ending is coming and will be far better than the excrement that's currently there. I think they added multiplayer simply to cash in on the craze, which i have no problem with, save that it should have much less if any effect on single player.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I think all of these are perfectly fine except Joker abandoning the battle - that is absolutely ridiculous. This is the same pilot who flew through the Omega Relay expecting it to be a one-way trip, without any qualms about doing so, and who knows more about the Reapers than almost anyone else in the galaxy, so he would have no illusions about being able to run and hide.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
After the conversations on Earth. It was amazing up until then, but began to fray afterward, slowly at first, but dramatically quickening at the run for the beam. Even then, it still retained enough coherency to not be terribly jarring up until the elevator to the Starchild, at which point it completely unravelled.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
Yes. A text epilogue of the current ending is barely better than nothing at all, and quite frankly an insult to the story, the characters, the setting, and the fans.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support the Retake Movement (since they chose to ignore the last sequence of the game)?
I think that it's supposed to be real, but treating it as a dream makes much more sense - which really says something about how bad it is. I believe this due to the statements Bioware has made, and the beating they have taken publically - if it was planned to be a dream, I can't imagine they wouldn't have come forward by now with that information to salvage things. THe people who support the Retake movement, of which I am one, don't necessarily ignore the last sequence. Some do, but most are all too aware of it, painfully so, which is what drives us to push for something better.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all of them excewpt one of the appearance packs, solely because I preferred the default appearance of those characters. I did this both on PC and Xbox.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think it will mostly be in the gaming industry, but the widespread nature of the Retake movement could act as an example for fans of other media, who, if they were to do something similar, could have a similar impact on that form.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players in the Retake Movement?
Yes, I bought the collector's edition. And I think they somewhat did, but had the ending not been so atrocious, it would have been something a few people grumbled over but ultimately had little impact. Now, it is additional fuel to the fire the ending caused.
Modifié par DrowVampyre, 05 avril 2012 - 08:36 .
#41
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:33
zninjazzero
-
- Members
- 47 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
N/A
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara. Yes, I believe it did
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
For most of them yes. For Jacob, just so I could finish all of them
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Some renegade choices just seemed cruel, but some seemed more rational and necessary, so yes.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
- Resolution to Lair of the Shadow Broker
- Watching the fleets pour in through the Charon relay, and then just keep pouring in for the fight for Earth
- Mordin's farewell on Tuchanka
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, fluid
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Not really. Maybe Shepard during the finale, but nothing else.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Not in the least.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Yes, I believe it did. I believe it was to lighten the theme of death, the jokes were too sincere to have been an attempt to blunt the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No. Bioware has previously been good with player feedback (eg Lair of the Shadow Broker), and when franchises have changed endings in the past, particularly Fallout 3, it has been regarded positively.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
First off, the way they are stranded implies that they'll be ok, when analysis shows they are doomed. Second, there's no logical reason they should have been running from that explosion, and now way they should have landed on that planet. Deaths are ok if they make dramatic and logical sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
I have no opinion to this, because I believe it is debatable whether the Star Child was sincere. I do have a problem with Shepard not calling the Star Child on his BS.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Mass Effect has always been about player engagement and agency. The galaxy was shaped by players over the course of 60+ hours, and then that agency was taken away from the players at the last second. Couple this with the specifically broken promises regarding the games conclusion, and you have what separates a normal crappy ending from Mass Effect 3's ending.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I cannot think of any rational reason they revealed Tali's face as they did, especially when they gave themselves a perfect dramatic moment on Rannoch. Jessica Chobot seemed more like a clumsy way to shoehorn a fanservice girl into the game. If IGN was alone, I might think this swayed them, but most major video game sites are also defensive about the endings, and I don't know how they came to be at odds with the fans. Based on that stark contrast, I don't think we can blame the fans for that presumption.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. Zero.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was terrible, and I support the Retake movement. The ending violated every rule an ending should have. It was full of plot holes. It changed the central conflict of the story. It changed the primary antagonist. It gave a clumsy explanation for the backstory. The main character stops acting consistently. A deus ex machina solves the problems. The universe as we know it is broken apart. And there is no resolution, the story ends with the climax.
And specific to Mass Effect, we have a number of promises about the ending being broken. We have all the choices we made over the previous 60+ hours of gameplay rendered obsolete. We have that stupid nonsensical crap with the Normandy.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Mass Effect 3 was meant to be the closing to a trilogy. A huge 60+ hour trilogy. The ending, by design, has to be the most important part of the 3rd installment. It's supposed to be the culmination of everything that playtime was. Not only does it not deliver, but it renders moot anything done during those 60+ hours, all for a single choice between 3 near-identical endings. Players understanbly feel their actions are futiel because they do not matter in the end.
I feel Bioware's PR deflection is a whole other issue from this, and I believe multiplay was meant to complement single player, rather than detriment. Apparently that failed.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I don't think anyone has a problem with Tali and Garrus. And for most of the game, I think most characters were consistent. The problem with Kai Leng is that Shepard kicks his ass, then he runs away, while taunting Shepard about how he won. What kind of an idiots thinks running away is winning? And that Normandy escape during the climax just makes no sense at all.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I think the writing changed to a certain amount around Cerberus HQ, but didn't notice a real decline in the quality until the meeting with the Catalyst.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I believe that if the ending were trully satisfying and consistent, the complete Mass Effect 3 experience would be worth $80+ on the whole. I would personally see it as just buying a game at a higher price.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Indoctrination Theory is very compelling, and it ties the "ending" together very well. The big problem is that it could be a lot of coincidences due to bad writing and coding. The ultimate problem is that if it's true, it ends the game in the middle of the final battle, there's no real ending. I want to believe it is true, because I think that a cliffhanger ending with good writing is better than the crap ending at face value.
This is different from a complete rewrite in that the ending does not need to be replaced, but added on to. A couple tweaks to the game would allow the real ending to follow seamlessly, rather than scrapping everything.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought everything except item packs, because they did not add anything to the story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
Hollywood has long been in the trash heap already. This will not affect them. This might not even affect the gaming industry very much, but we can hope.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I got From Ashes with the Collectors Edition. Ultimately Javik was not as necessary a character as many often claim he is, but Bioware did handle the DLC isse very poorly. Even before the game came out, there was a tremendous fan outcry about it, but next to the ending debacle, From Ashes seems insignificant.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
N/A
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Liara. Yes, I believe it did
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
For most of them yes. For Jacob, just so I could finish all of them
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Some renegade choices just seemed cruel, but some seemed more rational and necessary, so yes.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
- Resolution to Lair of the Shadow Broker
- Watching the fleets pour in through the Charon relay, and then just keep pouring in for the fight for Earth
- Mordin's farewell on Tuchanka
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, fluid
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
Not really. Maybe Shepard during the finale, but nothing else.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Not in the least.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Yes, I believe it did. I believe it was to lighten the theme of death, the jokes were too sincere to have been an attempt to blunt the ending.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No. Bioware has previously been good with player feedback (eg Lair of the Shadow Broker), and when franchises have changed endings in the past, particularly Fallout 3, it has been regarded positively.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
First off, the way they are stranded implies that they'll be ok, when analysis shows they are doomed. Second, there's no logical reason they should have been running from that explosion, and now way they should have landed on that planet. Deaths are ok if they make dramatic and logical sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
I have no opinion to this, because I believe it is debatable whether the Star Child was sincere. I do have a problem with Shepard not calling the Star Child on his BS.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Mass Effect has always been about player engagement and agency. The galaxy was shaped by players over the course of 60+ hours, and then that agency was taken away from the players at the last second. Couple this with the specifically broken promises regarding the games conclusion, and you have what separates a normal crappy ending from Mass Effect 3's ending.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
I cannot think of any rational reason they revealed Tali's face as they did, especially when they gave themselves a perfect dramatic moment on Rannoch. Jessica Chobot seemed more like a clumsy way to shoehorn a fanservice girl into the game. If IGN was alone, I might think this swayed them, but most major video game sites are also defensive about the endings, and I don't know how they came to be at odds with the fans. Based on that stark contrast, I don't think we can blame the fans for that presumption.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
Yes. Zero.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
The ending was terrible, and I support the Retake movement. The ending violated every rule an ending should have. It was full of plot holes. It changed the central conflict of the story. It changed the primary antagonist. It gave a clumsy explanation for the backstory. The main character stops acting consistently. A deus ex machina solves the problems. The universe as we know it is broken apart. And there is no resolution, the story ends with the climax.
And specific to Mass Effect, we have a number of promises about the ending being broken. We have all the choices we made over the previous 60+ hours of gameplay rendered obsolete. We have that stupid nonsensical crap with the Normandy.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Mass Effect 3 was meant to be the closing to a trilogy. A huge 60+ hour trilogy. The ending, by design, has to be the most important part of the 3rd installment. It's supposed to be the culmination of everything that playtime was. Not only does it not deliver, but it renders moot anything done during those 60+ hours, all for a single choice between 3 near-identical endings. Players understanbly feel their actions are futiel because they do not matter in the end.
I feel Bioware's PR deflection is a whole other issue from this, and I believe multiplay was meant to complement single player, rather than detriment. Apparently that failed.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I don't think anyone has a problem with Tali and Garrus. And for most of the game, I think most characters were consistent. The problem with Kai Leng is that Shepard kicks his ass, then he runs away, while taunting Shepard about how he won. What kind of an idiots thinks running away is winning? And that Normandy escape during the climax just makes no sense at all.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I think the writing changed to a certain amount around Cerberus HQ, but didn't notice a real decline in the quality until the meeting with the Catalyst.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I believe that if the ending were trully satisfying and consistent, the complete Mass Effect 3 experience would be worth $80+ on the whole. I would personally see it as just buying a game at a higher price.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Indoctrination Theory is very compelling, and it ties the "ending" together very well. The big problem is that it could be a lot of coincidences due to bad writing and coding. The ultimate problem is that if it's true, it ends the game in the middle of the final battle, there's no real ending. I want to believe it is true, because I think that a cliffhanger ending with good writing is better than the crap ending at face value.
This is different from a complete rewrite in that the ending does not need to be replaced, but added on to. A couple tweaks to the game would allow the real ending to follow seamlessly, rather than scrapping everything.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought everything except item packs, because they did not add anything to the story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
Hollywood has long been in the trash heap already. This will not affect them. This might not even affect the gaming industry very much, but we can hope.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I got From Ashes with the Collectors Edition. Ultimately Javik was not as necessary a character as many often claim he is, but Bioware did handle the DLC isse very poorly. Even before the game came out, there was a tremendous fan outcry about it, but next to the ending debacle, From Ashes seems insignificant.
#42
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:40
Fail_Inc
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- Members
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
--
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1- Ashley, ME2- Jack, ME3- Ashley again. Ashley is boring but I enjoyed the 2nd game with Jack, she also kicks ass.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories
of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Yes, I couldn't let any of my crew die after hearing their stories.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Nope, I'm mainly paragon but I choose reneage if it's a "badass" moment or a funny line.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Mordin's sacrifice, ME2 Suicide Mission, ME1 Stopping Sovereign/Saren. I guess the common theme is doing the "impossible".
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Of course they are. Art is fluid.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I enjoyed all the cameos. Mordin,Legion,Thane all made me teary eyed that's my only problem if it counts I didn't want them to die! Their deaths make sense but I still didn't want it to happen.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Well genetically engineered beings running away and starting over is not new (Hello Assassin's Creed!) and that's ok for me, I picked green light anyway. Joker and EDI can do it!
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
ME3 gave me more emotions, I laughed & cried and got pissed off! Well humans are not really in "serious mode" all the time, I don't think it's because of the options listed here. I think we have more humour because they wanted to create more realistic characters.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
I don't support a fully changed ending, that's not fair to the people who enjoyed it. I want 1-2 more endings (which are based on fan feedback) so the majority can enjoy it plus people can play the games and again again to see the new endings.
And to be honest whenever I see "Artistic Integrity", Inigo Montoya comes and says You keep using that word I don't think it means what you think it means.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
It is stupid because team on the ground (and probably blasted by Harbinger's beam) is magically teleported to Normandy which is also magically teleported to space. Joker proved he's not a coward so him running away makes little sense. The teleportation of my team is makes NO sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Nobody really wanted to know what is the purpose of the Reapers. We accepted it's impossible for us to understand when Sovereign said it so. I have no idea why Bioware wanted to explain it.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Well they successfully stole 2 endings from 1 franchise? The ending is basicly Deus Ex1 ending+ Deus Ex Human Revolution ending, kudos to them! And the endings are basicly pretentious "philosophical" crap, they're basicly saying "look guys we're deep" but since they say they're deep they fail.
The ending is so 2010s, that's how the future will remember it. It suits the mainstream today and only today, it's not timeless.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Chobot is a scapegoat I think and it's because in the game she doesn't even try, her voice is dull her character is exciting as a piece of wood. I just took her for War Assets and forgot she was even there. IGN would still give the game same ratings because they're funded by the "big evil corporations" ™.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I played ME3 once and left the single player. I'll play it one more time with a save from the first game and single player will be over for me, I'll keep the game for multi player fun.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Ending is the pretentious "philosophical" grimdark crap which will be extremely cool with the "hip" kids of today (No offense to anyone who enjoyed it). It's not deep, it doesn't want you to think about anything other than hate. You just HAVE to obey a stupid VI (who we don't even know until the very end of the game) and it tells us to pick a color...Yeeeey we saved the galaxy(!)! The "thought provoking" part is "omg robots are evul they gunna kill you" or "you can control dem evuls" or "why don't you merge da evuls with urself bro" yeah very deep! I'm sure Kant, Hegel and other philosophes would wet their pants with the idea of it! It doesn't suit first 2 games. It doesn't suit the Shepard I played in the first 2 games. And it's not fair to give the players "Life just sucks then you die" ending ONLY because we ****ing see it in our daily lives, we don't need a action RPG game to show it... I played video games to escape from reality. And It wouldn't be a problem if the ending was done well, there are many games with "sad" endings and they're all amazing, I don't see anyone complaining about them? (RDR,Planescape I'm looking at you) Another reason is I played enough Bioware games to see they can do better than this. They DID better than this.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I'll play single player ME3 one more time starting from ME1 and that's it. I have NO reason to play it again, unless they release more endings. I think multi player is good but it's not fair to make it a must to get a better Effective Military Strength.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I didn't read the books so Kai Leng is just another generic cyber ninja for me. Hell Marauder Shields have more personality than him!
I smiled when I saw Garrus & Tali, I mean it would be stupid if Shepard is the only guy/gal to have a relationship. Garrus and Tali are with us since begining so it makes total sense? (Besides Garrus is our bro he deserves it!)
Joker's cowardice MAKES NO SENSE! Seth Green should go to Bioware studios and kick the writer in the balls for that! "Yeah let's abandon the fight for our survival, I'm sure Reapers would leave us alone if we just ran away!" flawless logic is flawless...
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
When we "ascend" to Starchild. The game dies after that point. Ending would be good enough if it's just dying Anderson & Shep sitting on Citadel, watching Earth.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I would pay for more endings with game play. If they release more endings I would buy any other DLC they will release. Because right now there is no reason to buy them, anything we do in the middle will have no impact on the game and we don't need any more war assets.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Some evidence is there, for example the Citadel has parts from Normandy and Shadow Broker's ship. It is too good to be a coincidence. And the Shep breathing scene is also important.
If they pull a dream/indoctorination sequence it would be one of the greatest endings. It's heavy risk... but the prize!
I just support more endings but the theory is pretty good.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all of them (including weapon packs). ME2 is a good game and I wanted to support Bioware.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I don't think anything will change. There will always be people to buy CoD 2013-14, etc.. I hope Bioware understands their mistakes that's all.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
And Javik just brings a cool gun and funny moments, you can finish the game without him, just don't buy it if it's that bad. It's cruel if the DLC came with the disc but again I buy DLC to support the producers and ME3 was good even with it's faults.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
--
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
ME1- Ashley, ME2- Jack, ME3- Ashley again. Ashley is boring but I enjoyed the 2nd game with Jack, she also kicks ass.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories
of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Yes, I couldn't let any of my crew die after hearing their stories.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Nope, I'm mainly paragon but I choose reneage if it's a "badass" moment or a funny line.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Mordin's sacrifice, ME2 Suicide Mission, ME1 Stopping Sovereign/Saren. I guess the common theme is doing the "impossible".
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Of course they are. Art is fluid.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I enjoyed all the cameos. Mordin,Legion,Thane all made me teary eyed that's my only problem if it counts I didn't want them to die! Their deaths make sense but I still didn't want it to happen.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Well genetically engineered beings running away and starting over is not new (Hello Assassin's Creed!) and that's ok for me, I picked green light anyway. Joker and EDI can do it!
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
ME3 gave me more emotions, I laughed & cried and got pissed off! Well humans are not really in "serious mode" all the time, I don't think it's because of the options listed here. I think we have more humour because they wanted to create more realistic characters.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
I don't support a fully changed ending, that's not fair to the people who enjoyed it. I want 1-2 more endings (which are based on fan feedback) so the majority can enjoy it plus people can play the games and again again to see the new endings.
And to be honest whenever I see "Artistic Integrity", Inigo Montoya comes and says You keep using that word I don't think it means what you think it means.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
It is stupid because team on the ground (and probably blasted by Harbinger's beam) is magically teleported to Normandy which is also magically teleported to space. Joker proved he's not a coward so him running away makes little sense. The teleportation of my team is makes NO sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
Nobody really wanted to know what is the purpose of the Reapers. We accepted it's impossible for us to understand when Sovereign said it so. I have no idea why Bioware wanted to explain it.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
Well they successfully stole 2 endings from 1 franchise? The ending is basicly Deus Ex1 ending+ Deus Ex Human Revolution ending, kudos to them! And the endings are basicly pretentious "philosophical" crap, they're basicly saying "look guys we're deep" but since they say they're deep they fail.
The ending is so 2010s, that's how the future will remember it. It suits the mainstream today and only today, it's not timeless.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Chobot is a scapegoat I think and it's because in the game she doesn't even try, her voice is dull her character is exciting as a piece of wood. I just took her for War Assets and forgot she was even there. IGN would still give the game same ratings because they're funded by the "big evil corporations" ™.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I played ME3 once and left the single player. I'll play it one more time with a save from the first game and single player will be over for me, I'll keep the game for multi player fun.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Ending is the pretentious "philosophical" grimdark crap which will be extremely cool with the "hip" kids of today (No offense to anyone who enjoyed it). It's not deep, it doesn't want you to think about anything other than hate. You just HAVE to obey a stupid VI (who we don't even know until the very end of the game) and it tells us to pick a color...Yeeeey we saved the galaxy(!)! The "thought provoking" part is "omg robots are evul they gunna kill you" or "you can control dem evuls" or "why don't you merge da evuls with urself bro" yeah very deep! I'm sure Kant, Hegel and other philosophes would wet their pants with the idea of it! It doesn't suit first 2 games. It doesn't suit the Shepard I played in the first 2 games. And it's not fair to give the players "Life just sucks then you die" ending ONLY because we ****ing see it in our daily lives, we don't need a action RPG game to show it... I played video games to escape from reality. And It wouldn't be a problem if the ending was done well, there are many games with "sad" endings and they're all amazing, I don't see anyone complaining about them? (RDR,Planescape I'm looking at you) Another reason is I played enough Bioware games to see they can do better than this. They DID better than this.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
I'll play single player ME3 one more time starting from ME1 and that's it. I have NO reason to play it again, unless they release more endings. I think multi player is good but it's not fair to make it a must to get a better Effective Military Strength.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I didn't read the books so Kai Leng is just another generic cyber ninja for me. Hell Marauder Shields have more personality than him!
I smiled when I saw Garrus & Tali, I mean it would be stupid if Shepard is the only guy/gal to have a relationship. Garrus and Tali are with us since begining so it makes total sense? (Besides Garrus is our bro he deserves it!)
Joker's cowardice MAKES NO SENSE! Seth Green should go to Bioware studios and kick the writer in the balls for that! "Yeah let's abandon the fight for our survival, I'm sure Reapers would leave us alone if we just ran away!" flawless logic is flawless...
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
When we "ascend" to Starchild. The game dies after that point. Ending would be good enough if it's just dying Anderson & Shep sitting on Citadel, watching Earth.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I would pay for more endings with game play. If they release more endings I would buy any other DLC they will release. Because right now there is no reason to buy them, anything we do in the middle will have no impact on the game and we don't need any more war assets.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Some evidence is there, for example the Citadel has parts from Normandy and Shadow Broker's ship. It is too good to be a coincidence. And the Shep breathing scene is also important.
If they pull a dream/indoctorination sequence it would be one of the greatest endings. It's heavy risk... but the prize!
I just support more endings but the theory is pretty good.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all of them (including weapon packs). ME2 is a good game and I wanted to support Bioware.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I don't think anything will change. There will always be people to buy CoD 2013-14, etc.. I hope Bioware understands their mistakes that's all.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
And Javik just brings a cool gun and funny moments, you can finish the game without him, just don't buy it if it's that bad. It's cruel if the DLC came with the disc but again I buy DLC to support the producers and ME3 was good even with it's faults.
#43
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:41
Silasqtx
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- Members
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought Overlord, LOTSB and Arrival because they had a good story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
- Yes.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
- Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
- Liara, it added to the general enjoyment.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
- Every character was unique and worth saving. I loved their stories and their company, so I decided to save them all. So yes.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
- No, I've always played "my way", without Renegade/Paragon scores biasing my actions.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
- The Liara Romance
- The Confrontation with Saren
- The Suicide Mission
- The last two share the "epic" theme and the capability to overcome impossible odds. I never thought that I could make Saren, an indoctrinated being, shoot himself, and I never thought that the Suicide Mission could go well and without sacrifices. As I played through these moments, I've been proven wrong, luckily
- I avoided the ME3 moments because the endings badly downgrade their emotional impact. Now I'm just trying to forget ME3.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
- They are a form of art but they're also a product made for the masses. It's like the double nature (particle-wave) of light. It's a form of art, yes, but it's meant to please the customers. Differently from a painting, where "customers" are just viewers, videogames (especially BW games) imply that customers play,feel and decide the story. That's where ME3 went wrong, at least in the ending sequences. Art changes, every time.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
- Some Shepard dialogues feel out of character. Also Kai Leng is kind of a clichè villain.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
- Nothing regarding the endings made sense.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
- First one.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
- I couldn't care less about their artistic integrity. They promised a different product where choices matter&stuff and we, as customers, have all the right to demand a change.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
- Well, Mordin died replenishing his soul of the Genophage crime by fixing it. Thane died saving the councilor. Legion died to grant his people free will. Their deaths MEANT something. They died for an higher cause. The Normandy fleeing an explosion during a relay travel (plothole #1#2), with the aforementioned explosion blowing up the ship's engines (what happens to the entire Sword fleet then? SPECULATION! Also, plothole #3 because there's no Reaper tech on the Normandy other than the IFF), finally ending up on an unknown planet with no apparent reason is just insulting. (also, plothole #4 the ship crew is smiling regardless of Shepard's condition/whereabouts)
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
- They shouldn't have explained the role of the Reapers. I personally love the Lovecraftian explaination given by Sovereign in the first game (read: none).
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
- Emotional engagement. I loved the universe since ME1 and it just felt not right to end it this way (aka: the worst possible way to end a trilogy is to screw up the universe). I felt betrayed because BW promised different endings where our choices mattered and closure. All we got were copy-pasted RGB endings ripped off from Deus Ex where our choices didn't matter at all and no closure, just wild speculation.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
- We won't know the truth behind this anyway, so why bother answering or picking sides?
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
- I've beaten the game just once. Never felt the urge to replay it since I got the "best" ending and was still upset. I've also deleted the other two games from my HD because the ending killed the will to replay the entire series.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
- I wouldn't be so upset if those were not all the endings that could possibly play out. I hate them because the major theme of the series was to overcome impossible odds and you could walk away from the PC with a sense of accomplishment. ME3 endings were bleak, other than senseless. They didn't provide closure, nor accomplishment because no matter what you do, you must comply with the Starchild faulty logic and deal with it. It's a middle finger to the theme the whole franchise lived on, choice.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
- Both of them. The ending saps the replayability value and BW quietness doesn't help. They wanted to add multiplayer since ME1. They added it on ME3 because it's the only game where we face mutiple factions.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
- Haven't read the novels so I can't say anything about Kai Leng. It felt ok, but nothing breath-taking. In my opinion, they could've done better with him. About Garrus-Tali, I'm honestly happy that they included this because it's a hint that NPC's aren't just sex-toys for Shepard but react and "evolve" during the series. Another example is the evolution of Liara's personality from ME1 to ME3.
- Now, Joker. As I've already said, it doesn't make any sense. It's just out of character. Joker would follow Shepard to hell and back, not chicken out and flee.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
- The major theme is war and there's no war without loss. They did a good job imo, endings aside. If you feel that this is contradictory, read my reply on the endings again.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
- I'm still convinced that they planned it all along. But this time I'll wait for someone to buy it and review it before making any decision.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
- Indoctrination Theory is neat and similar to the NWN:Underdark situation. There you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain, capable of mind-control. You can choose to negotiate with it or attack it. If you attack it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won and end up in an idyllic place. If you accept the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game. The best solution was to use your wisdom to break out of the psychic deception and fight back.
- I'm with the IT theory by the way. The ending just feels disconnected and the IT provides an elegant solution to make all people happy. If you like the endings you just headcanon a bit and think that Control/Merge are the right solution (even though TIM/Saren wanted them and they were both indoctrinated). If you choose Destroy and live you get the access to the other sequences, fulfilling most of the angry fanbase wishes. It's a win-win situation.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought Overlord, LOTSB and Arrival because they had a good story.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
- I have the utmost respect of BW writers, I personally think that EA wanted a finished game in an almost-impossible deadline. That's why they screwed up, imo. That said, we'll just have to wait and see.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
- I did not buy and probably won't buy any DLC if they don't give us the game they promised first. I have contrasting opinions on this: I'm a fan and a character with that background is tempting, it still doesn't have a crucial role in the ME3 plot. And with the endings like this I don't feel that buying a DLC would make the pill taste less bitter.
#44
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:41
FortissimoDS
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- Members
- 27 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
---
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
I romanced Liara the first time, and decided to stay faithful in the second
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Not really. It wasmore because they could be saved that I did. Otherwise, Jacob could die for all I cared, though I strived to save him anyway.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Sort of. I couldn't bring myself to do some choices, like taking Mordith over Samara, if that is what you mean.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
(Understand that it's hard for me to pull out good memories from within the ink cloud the ending has overcast the entire experience for me)
1. Conversing with Soverign.
2. Discovering Leigon and learning about the Geth
3. Tali's court hearing
The common theme is that they all develop characters and cultures, like learning about the reapers in general with Soverign, Learning about the peaceful Geth, after fighting mostly heraticks for a full game, and seeing how the Quarians actually live.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
This is a difficult question for me. I believe videogames when done right is art, but I don't understand what is meant by static or fluid. The beauty of Mass Effect is that the game itself was supposed to be somewhat fluid based on the choices made, and in some ways it is still, but it ended up being static like the famous painting of a soup can. It's a soup can now, it will be a soup can in three hours, and it will be a soup can in fifteen years.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
The only character I noticed being rewrote myself is Shepard. Renegade Shepard was always a jerk, but in this, he is pretty much evil. And at the end, his inquizitive personality disappears as he just accepts whatever he is told.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Not really. The Reapers wanted an Adam and Eve ending, in that organic life was harvested to make way for new beginnings for lesser creatures to evolve, and to rid us of that pesky synthetic life. The entire fight of ME3 was about preserving their own existance. They won the battle, but they have to start over.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Most humor came from Joker, who is just Joker, and by the end, the ending has a way to make you forget the jokes, and no amount of jokes would be able to cover up what it was.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
They already compromised their decisions and artistic integrity when they promised us 16 unique and different endings, and gave us one ending with color variances and differences of about 5 seconds of video a piece.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
The fact that we were promised that no questions would be left unanswered in the months before release, and that being changed to "Lots of speculation for everyone" after it's been released. Being stranded tends to raise a lot of questions. I think they made a whole show about something simmilar. It was called Gilligan's island.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
They did promise to answer questions, so I'm happier to have that answered, rather than it being another part of a broken promise, though I really don't like the route they took it, and it has flawed logic.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
The biggest reason is because our choices were supposed to matter in the end game. In our ending, did it make any kind of distinction if Wrex/Wreave and/or Eve lead the cured/uncured Krogan after the Reaper war? No. Did it explain what the Quarians and/or Geth did after the war on Ronnach? No. Did it matter if the original counsel or the human counsel was in power in the ending? Not really. (We did get to see the Destiny Assention in one cutscene at the beginning of Earth, but that was more like the beginning of the Fifth Act, rather than the ending, so I say don't count it). All the ending choises were pretty much made in a vaccume outside what you did through the game. If Bioware took the time to create a clip show showing what your ending choise had ten years down the line on the people you affected, even with Star Child, that would have been enough to shut me up, but now they really got to work to get me back on their side and give us a revamped ending.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I've beaten it once within the first week, and have really been dragging my feet with the second playthrough. Haven't even rescued Eve yet.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I think they are junk, and thuroughly with the movement. Everything else in the game, as well as the other two games, were well done, just it feels like it was tacked on. Granted that creating multiple different endings for all choises is no simple feat, and I can symphasise, they made some very big promises. If they were politicians, I wouldn't expect them to follow through with, but I had faith in Bioware, which has been shaken.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
ME3 has no replayability for me because of the endings. I know that no matter what, the end has that kid waiting for me with a nonsensical choice to make, completely spitting in the face of what I know from game lore and what the game was trying to accomplish.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I know nothing of Kai Leng from the book, so moving on. I kind of expected Garrus to do something like this since he had the mindset of "The last day alive", and I assume Tali had the same mindset as well. The difference is that with Tali, I didn't know what would go through her head with that mindset. Always thought of her as a bit shy for that route, though I'm not upset. Though, I have no idea what Joker was doing in a Mass Relay jump, so that may be a good example.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
It ground to a halt for me as soon as you made it to the chamber with the dead Human Reaper in the Cerberus base for me.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I don't think I should pay for a new ending, since what they delivered was NOT what they originally promised us when I bought the game. That being said, between the two, I would take the free text epilogue, simply because I do not want to reward Bioware/EA for their poor judgement call by awarding them money for fixing their mistake, which they should correct for free out of obligation.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Ah, the Indoctrination Theory. The plot holes are certainly there to allow it to survive, but the reason why I don't support it personally is because if it turns out to be the case, then we are still owed an ending, and Bioware really did sell us an incomplete product. It would be nice if they released content where Shepard woke up, and if he chose Control, The Illusive Man becomes his squadmate as he leads him through the citedel and activate the catalyst to control the Reapers, and depending on if you destroyed the collector base or purged it, TIM turns around and kills you. If you chose Synthesis, you gain a Maurader squadmate as you wipe out the rest of the army you brought with you and the Reapers harvests everyone, and if you Destroy, you gain Anderson and finish the fight. I'll even forgive Bioware if they prove that clever, and just needed more time to finish the content than the deadline provided, and for some reason couldn't extend. As it stands, I think the indoc theory is wrong and that was the ending, however.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought Lair of the Shadow Broker and Kazumi: Stolen Memories, because I was interested in the SB arc, and I had the points left over for Kazumi.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I'm not prepared to really deal out congratulations just yet over EA's stock prices dropping, and the game decreasing in value. The market is funny like that, but I think it will be mostly exclusive to the gaming industry, if at all. There have always been lousy movies and books, and TV shows with confusing endings, like Lost. The book industry might take a lession, but other than that, the rest of the industries will have to test their own limits.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I did not purchase From Ashes, nor do I plan to until the ending changes. Why wake up Javik so he can have a vague and indefinite future along with the other poor, unfortunate characters who were developed and left with no epilogue? As for making us pay for Day 1 DLC, I don't see how it could have possibly been so bad for EA to push the release back a week to fit the content that "Was developed by a second team" (Even though the actual character data was on the original disks).
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
---
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
I romanced Liara the first time, and decided to stay faithful in the second
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
Not really. It wasmore because they could be saved that I did. Otherwise, Jacob could die for all I cared, though I strived to save him anyway.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
Sort of. I couldn't bring myself to do some choices, like taking Mordith over Samara, if that is what you mean.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
(Understand that it's hard for me to pull out good memories from within the ink cloud the ending has overcast the entire experience for me)
1. Conversing with Soverign.
2. Discovering Leigon and learning about the Geth
3. Tali's court hearing
The common theme is that they all develop characters and cultures, like learning about the reapers in general with Soverign, Learning about the peaceful Geth, after fighting mostly heraticks for a full game, and seeing how the Quarians actually live.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
This is a difficult question for me. I believe videogames when done right is art, but I don't understand what is meant by static or fluid. The beauty of Mass Effect is that the game itself was supposed to be somewhat fluid based on the choices made, and in some ways it is still, but it ended up being static like the famous painting of a soup can. It's a soup can now, it will be a soup can in three hours, and it will be a soup can in fifteen years.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
The only character I noticed being rewrote myself is Shepard. Renegade Shepard was always a jerk, but in this, he is pretty much evil. And at the end, his inquizitive personality disappears as he just accepts whatever he is told.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
Not really. The Reapers wanted an Adam and Eve ending, in that organic life was harvested to make way for new beginnings for lesser creatures to evolve, and to rid us of that pesky synthetic life. The entire fight of ME3 was about preserving their own existance. They won the battle, but they have to start over.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
Most humor came from Joker, who is just Joker, and by the end, the ending has a way to make you forget the jokes, and no amount of jokes would be able to cover up what it was.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
They already compromised their decisions and artistic integrity when they promised us 16 unique and different endings, and gave us one ending with color variances and differences of about 5 seconds of video a piece.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
The fact that we were promised that no questions would be left unanswered in the months before release, and that being changed to "Lots of speculation for everyone" after it's been released. Being stranded tends to raise a lot of questions. I think they made a whole show about something simmilar. It was called Gilligan's island.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
They did promise to answer questions, so I'm happier to have that answered, rather than it being another part of a broken promise, though I really don't like the route they took it, and it has flawed logic.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
The biggest reason is because our choices were supposed to matter in the end game. In our ending, did it make any kind of distinction if Wrex/Wreave and/or Eve lead the cured/uncured Krogan after the Reaper war? No. Did it explain what the Quarians and/or Geth did after the war on Ronnach? No. Did it matter if the original counsel or the human counsel was in power in the ending? Not really. (We did get to see the Destiny Assention in one cutscene at the beginning of Earth, but that was more like the beginning of the Fifth Act, rather than the ending, so I say don't count it). All the ending choises were pretty much made in a vaccume outside what you did through the game. If Bioware took the time to create a clip show showing what your ending choise had ten years down the line on the people you affected, even with Star Child, that would have been enough to shut me up, but now they really got to work to get me back on their side and give us a revamped ending.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I've beaten it once within the first week, and have really been dragging my feet with the second playthrough. Haven't even rescued Eve yet.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I think they are junk, and thuroughly with the movement. Everything else in the game, as well as the other two games, were well done, just it feels like it was tacked on. Granted that creating multiple different endings for all choises is no simple feat, and I can symphasise, they made some very big promises. If they were politicians, I wouldn't expect them to follow through with, but I had faith in Bioware, which has been shaken.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
ME3 has no replayability for me because of the endings. I know that no matter what, the end has that kid waiting for me with a nonsensical choice to make, completely spitting in the face of what I know from game lore and what the game was trying to accomplish.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I know nothing of Kai Leng from the book, so moving on. I kind of expected Garrus to do something like this since he had the mindset of "The last day alive", and I assume Tali had the same mindset as well. The difference is that with Tali, I didn't know what would go through her head with that mindset. Always thought of her as a bit shy for that route, though I'm not upset. Though, I have no idea what Joker was doing in a Mass Relay jump, so that may be a good example.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
It ground to a halt for me as soon as you made it to the chamber with the dead Human Reaper in the Cerberus base for me.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
I don't think I should pay for a new ending, since what they delivered was NOT what they originally promised us when I bought the game. That being said, between the two, I would take the free text epilogue, simply because I do not want to reward Bioware/EA for their poor judgement call by awarding them money for fixing their mistake, which they should correct for free out of obligation.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
Ah, the Indoctrination Theory. The plot holes are certainly there to allow it to survive, but the reason why I don't support it personally is because if it turns out to be the case, then we are still owed an ending, and Bioware really did sell us an incomplete product. It would be nice if they released content where Shepard woke up, and if he chose Control, The Illusive Man becomes his squadmate as he leads him through the citedel and activate the catalyst to control the Reapers, and depending on if you destroyed the collector base or purged it, TIM turns around and kills you. If you chose Synthesis, you gain a Maurader squadmate as you wipe out the rest of the army you brought with you and the Reapers harvests everyone, and if you Destroy, you gain Anderson and finish the fight. I'll even forgive Bioware if they prove that clever, and just needed more time to finish the content than the deadline provided, and for some reason couldn't extend. As it stands, I think the indoc theory is wrong and that was the ending, however.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought Lair of the Shadow Broker and Kazumi: Stolen Memories, because I was interested in the SB arc, and I had the points left over for Kazumi.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I'm not prepared to really deal out congratulations just yet over EA's stock prices dropping, and the game decreasing in value. The market is funny like that, but I think it will be mostly exclusive to the gaming industry, if at all. There have always been lousy movies and books, and TV shows with confusing endings, like Lost. The book industry might take a lession, but other than that, the rest of the industries will have to test their own limits.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I did not purchase From Ashes, nor do I plan to until the ending changes. Why wake up Javik so he can have a vague and indefinite future along with the other poor, unfortunate characters who were developed and left with no epilogue? As for making us pay for Day 1 DLC, I don't see how it could have possibly been so bad for EA to push the release back a week to fit the content that "Was developed by a second team" (Even though the actual character data was on the original disks).
#45
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:44
BEAR-IRON
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- Members
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1 yes
2 na
3 yes
4 liara
5 yes
6 no, there were times as a paragon i felt renegade was better and vice versa
7 a kaiden/ashley choice first one. Hard and surprising.
b the entire collector base mission in me2 (expect the human reaper boss, broke the immersion)
c Tuchanka mission in me3, awesome to see everything come together
The first stands alone because it was hard, but the second were because of the reward of all the effort and the choices I made to bring it all together for the best ending (imo) possible
1 yes, but I also think they can be both static and fluid. Mass Effect defines fluidity in the way of character choice. A game like Red Dead Redemption, which has a tragic ending as well, doesn't but does well in that context.
2 I don't really know much about this. I think for the most part the characters in this game were very well done.
3 I'm not a fan of synthesis, as I think it ties too closely to eugenics. But yes, there is a connotation to a new begining and etc.
4 Yes, but I don't think it was some weird scheme to cover the ending. To say that would be to conclude that the developers thought the ending sucked, which would bring the question why they didn't just write a new one. I think the humor was for the most part a nod to fans. The tali and Garrus scene is a nod off to the investment of the romance plots to the fans. I think they really did love this game and tried hard, but just lost perspective at the end.
5 No, not really. I think the major issue besides pride over the ending is the resources it would require to retcon a new ending in. Artists and writers constantly update their "universes" with different ways of connectivity. Conan Doyle is an obvious example, but many modern authors retcon previous novels into an overarching "multiverse" to tie their novels together in some grand drama (Dark Tower series comes to immediate mind).
6 The character deaths in the story had meaning and impact to them. Kaiden/Ashely had to die because only one could be saved. The squadmates at the collector's base died fighting to rid the galaxy of a horrible threat. Mordin, Thane, and Legion died either to protect or redeem themselves. They were all sacrifices that meant something. In many ways, it would have been better to have them been sacrificed by the Beam from Harbinger: it would make sense to the plot and add depth to the story. What we have, the scene of escape and landing just raises questions and confusion.
7 I'm on the fence with this one. I would have preferred the mysteriousness of the Reapers to the weird synthetic vs organic solution, but that isn't to say that other motivations wouldn't have worked. I just think that it was a poor motivation and presented poorly
8 Mass Effect has always been about choice, and that's what it boils down to. Other games have had this, but not as immersively as Mass Effect has managed to do. When I play Deus Ex, I don't truly identify with JC as much I do with Shepard in Mass Effect. As well, games with similar ending to Mass Effect, where there isn't a "good" option, just different shades of gray, tend to have the entire story depicted in shades of gray, and where morality is hard to judge. Mass Effect is basically black and white (or blue and red) and this along with the lack of options at the end breaks the immersion and confuses the player.
9 I felt Jessica Chobot was a poor choice for an actress, but I don't really think too much about if it was for better reviews. Game review sites are always biased to big publishers, but that's the way the entertainment business always works. I was disappointed with Tali's face, but I was always in the minority where i felt that her face should have stayed hidden. The photoshop does feel like an insult, I'll admit.
1 Yes, and twice.
2 I was disappointed. I don't think it absolutely ruined the series completely, but I've dealt with this thing with book series before so I've learned to deal with disappointment. Authors make decisions sometimes that readers don't understand, but that doesn't make all their work utterly useless. I love the Mass Effect series despite its endings, and I'm sad sometimes that people can't see past that. I would like to see it worked on more or perhaps completely retconned, but it won't ruin Bioware for me if they don't do much.
3 Well, I know I won't replay it as much, but that's also a factor of it being the last in the trilogy. I replayed me1 and 2 so much because I wanted to see how the different choices would effect each following title. I won't be doing the same for 3, but I'll probably beat it one more time just to get everything I want out of it.
4 I think much of what people are picking apart are minor things. I personally was a fan of the Garrus and Tali paring, and while Kai Leng was an admittedly boring villain, he wasn't the worst I've encountered in a game or literature. Joker's little thing at the end is just another part of the bad ending that I could live without, but i tend to ignore that part.
5 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to ask here, but ME3 overall was a much more cohesive game plotwise than ME2. While ME2 was all about the characters, the main plot wasn't all that inspiring. Mass Effect 3 had I felt proper pacing for the most part, though that weird scene of running around on that outpost on Earth always jars me a little.
6 A text epilogue vs. more content? I guess I'd pay instead, but I'd make sure it was worth it first. As I said, I can live with the endings, but I would like more. I won't pay 10 bucks for 10 more minutes of dialogue and cutscenes.
7 Three weeks ago I was on the fence. Now, I don't think so. If Bioware had something waiting, they would have released it pretty soon afterwards, not a month later. Honestly, I would like this to be true, but it's pretty evident at this point that it isn't. The difference between this and a new ending would be that Bioware would be changing the ending while keeping the artistic integrity folks happy.
1 I bought most. The weapon packs and outfits I didn't touch but I really enjoyed Shadow Broker and Arrival was alright. I did buy everything story content wise for both me1 and me2. I enjoyed the story and wanted more of it.
2 Meh, stocks are fickle animals. The retake movement may have had a small impact, but in the overall scheme of things, I don't really see a big difference. The stocks were already falling before Mass Effect 3. I do think that this issue has opened the eyes to media over whether games are an art form and what exactly that means.
3 I had the collectors edition, so i recieved it as additional content. I do think that a better plan would have been to make it free for everyone publicity-wise. I feel this was just plain greed, honestly, but it's not related just to bioware and EA, but gaming dlc in general.
2 na
3 yes
4 liara
5 yes
6 no, there were times as a paragon i felt renegade was better and vice versa
7 a kaiden/ashley choice first one. Hard and surprising.
b the entire collector base mission in me2 (expect the human reaper boss, broke the immersion)
c Tuchanka mission in me3, awesome to see everything come together
The first stands alone because it was hard, but the second were because of the reward of all the effort and the choices I made to bring it all together for the best ending (imo) possible
1 yes, but I also think they can be both static and fluid. Mass Effect defines fluidity in the way of character choice. A game like Red Dead Redemption, which has a tragic ending as well, doesn't but does well in that context.
2 I don't really know much about this. I think for the most part the characters in this game were very well done.
3 I'm not a fan of synthesis, as I think it ties too closely to eugenics. But yes, there is a connotation to a new begining and etc.
4 Yes, but I don't think it was some weird scheme to cover the ending. To say that would be to conclude that the developers thought the ending sucked, which would bring the question why they didn't just write a new one. I think the humor was for the most part a nod to fans. The tali and Garrus scene is a nod off to the investment of the romance plots to the fans. I think they really did love this game and tried hard, but just lost perspective at the end.
5 No, not really. I think the major issue besides pride over the ending is the resources it would require to retcon a new ending in. Artists and writers constantly update their "universes" with different ways of connectivity. Conan Doyle is an obvious example, but many modern authors retcon previous novels into an overarching "multiverse" to tie their novels together in some grand drama (Dark Tower series comes to immediate mind).
6 The character deaths in the story had meaning and impact to them. Kaiden/Ashely had to die because only one could be saved. The squadmates at the collector's base died fighting to rid the galaxy of a horrible threat. Mordin, Thane, and Legion died either to protect or redeem themselves. They were all sacrifices that meant something. In many ways, it would have been better to have them been sacrificed by the Beam from Harbinger: it would make sense to the plot and add depth to the story. What we have, the scene of escape and landing just raises questions and confusion.
7 I'm on the fence with this one. I would have preferred the mysteriousness of the Reapers to the weird synthetic vs organic solution, but that isn't to say that other motivations wouldn't have worked. I just think that it was a poor motivation and presented poorly
8 Mass Effect has always been about choice, and that's what it boils down to. Other games have had this, but not as immersively as Mass Effect has managed to do. When I play Deus Ex, I don't truly identify with JC as much I do with Shepard in Mass Effect. As well, games with similar ending to Mass Effect, where there isn't a "good" option, just different shades of gray, tend to have the entire story depicted in shades of gray, and where morality is hard to judge. Mass Effect is basically black and white (or blue and red) and this along with the lack of options at the end breaks the immersion and confuses the player.
9 I felt Jessica Chobot was a poor choice for an actress, but I don't really think too much about if it was for better reviews. Game review sites are always biased to big publishers, but that's the way the entertainment business always works. I was disappointed with Tali's face, but I was always in the minority where i felt that her face should have stayed hidden. The photoshop does feel like an insult, I'll admit.
1 Yes, and twice.
2 I was disappointed. I don't think it absolutely ruined the series completely, but I've dealt with this thing with book series before so I've learned to deal with disappointment. Authors make decisions sometimes that readers don't understand, but that doesn't make all their work utterly useless. I love the Mass Effect series despite its endings, and I'm sad sometimes that people can't see past that. I would like to see it worked on more or perhaps completely retconned, but it won't ruin Bioware for me if they don't do much.
3 Well, I know I won't replay it as much, but that's also a factor of it being the last in the trilogy. I replayed me1 and 2 so much because I wanted to see how the different choices would effect each following title. I won't be doing the same for 3, but I'll probably beat it one more time just to get everything I want out of it.
4 I think much of what people are picking apart are minor things. I personally was a fan of the Garrus and Tali paring, and while Kai Leng was an admittedly boring villain, he wasn't the worst I've encountered in a game or literature. Joker's little thing at the end is just another part of the bad ending that I could live without, but i tend to ignore that part.
5 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to ask here, but ME3 overall was a much more cohesive game plotwise than ME2. While ME2 was all about the characters, the main plot wasn't all that inspiring. Mass Effect 3 had I felt proper pacing for the most part, though that weird scene of running around on that outpost on Earth always jars me a little.
6 A text epilogue vs. more content? I guess I'd pay instead, but I'd make sure it was worth it first. As I said, I can live with the endings, but I would like more. I won't pay 10 bucks for 10 more minutes of dialogue and cutscenes.
7 Three weeks ago I was on the fence. Now, I don't think so. If Bioware had something waiting, they would have released it pretty soon afterwards, not a month later. Honestly, I would like this to be true, but it's pretty evident at this point that it isn't. The difference between this and a new ending would be that Bioware would be changing the ending while keeping the artistic integrity folks happy.
1 I bought most. The weapon packs and outfits I didn't touch but I really enjoyed Shadow Broker and Arrival was alright. I did buy everything story content wise for both me1 and me2. I enjoyed the story and wanted more of it.
2 Meh, stocks are fickle animals. The retake movement may have had a small impact, but in the overall scheme of things, I don't really see a big difference. The stocks were already falling before Mass Effect 3. I do think that this issue has opened the eyes to media over whether games are an art form and what exactly that means.
3 I had the collectors edition, so i recieved it as additional content. I do think that a better plan would have been to make it free for everyone publicity-wise. I feel this was just plain greed, honestly, but it's not related just to bioware and EA, but gaming dlc in general.
#46
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:45
Zofiya
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- Members
- 204 messages
Consumers have a right to demand that the product they pay for be what they were told they were buying. "Artistic integrity" is a misleading concept in this case. Commercial art, while it can have artistic integrity, is meant to be sold, and so it functions a lot like commissioned art: the patron, not the artist, has final say over the end product.Infinityphoenix wrote...
Does the Public Good have the right to affect the Artistic Integrity of the Private Sector Entertainment Industry?
#47
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:49
wright1978
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- 8 114 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Miranda
Yes LI's are part of the experience
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
A mixture of affection for the characters gained from getting to know them and Shep just wanting to be the best he could be.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No I played paragade in my main playthrough.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Suicide mission, being pulled on board by Miranda
Defeating Saren, crashing a Mako into the Citadel
Bringing peace between Quarians and geth
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
No, they are an entertainment product.
Art is fluid anyhow.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I think there was too much autoshep which gave Shep too much of a canon approach rather than having the character reflect the players shep through choices at times.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No it is sloppy forced symbolism that should have no place in the game.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No i think previous games had the same level of humorous moments
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No, Taking feedback during the good times is easy, doing it during the hard times is a sign of whether you are serious about teh endeavour or if it is a sham.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Railroading is bad. In a choice driven game not allowing the player to have any influence over the fate of people he/she cares about is unacceptable.
Coupled with this is the plothole of the normandy's flight from battle where the only plausible reason is that joker became a yellow bellied coward and fled yet somehow managed to pick up crew members fighting on the ground.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
I think it would have been better to leave their purpose more mysterious. Maybe that is just a reaction to how poorly they implemented the spacechild with his nutty logic and the fact he diminished the reapers by his very presence.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
The fit of an ending matters. In a game all about choice to in effect to railroad players into one vision of a galactic dark age is bad. Also Shep is the protaganist and the ending removes him from this role. The Deux ex machina takes control of the game offering solutions to the problem which shep just mind boggingly accepts. A game which has been all about fighting and resisting evil ends with a whimper as the protaganist accepts evil was right all along and trots with tail between his/her legs to an a,b or a c ending said evil entity offers. The ending is disengaged from all that comes before and throws in conceptual ideas that are disengaged from all the personal aspects of the universe the player is engaged with.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Jessica Chobot shouldn't have been in the game as she didn't have the acting chops for the role. I think it was a stunt to try and bring her sex appeal across. I think EA's advertising dollars had an impact on IGN's review not jessica's presence.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
0. I refuse to replay the game again in its current state. What motivation is there when the game's ending invalidates all that came before. Considering how many ME2 saves i've got waiting in line that's disappointing.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Despise the ending
It should be changed
The ending destroys everything about the series and may very well destroy the franchise.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Yes the ending is the factor why peopel aren't replaying.
MP was added because it is the latest fad and EA wanted it in this big launch.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I didn't have a problem with the Garrus-Tali thing as i thought it was a natural pairing. I didn't romance either though.
Kai Leng could have done without his mask but other than that i though he was ok.
I had more of a problenm with some of the characterisation of ME2 characters made in order to sideline them. Miranda is a particularly glaring examaple of this.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I think the game begins to feel rushed from Sanctuary onwards which affected the quality.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
No. The endings need a much more fundamental rework. An epilogue would be like rubbing salt into the current wound. I would pay for a proper reworking of the ending though.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I think people are clutching at straws. All evidence coming out suggests what is there was what they planned to be there. It is just a truly staggeringly awful ending.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all the story DLCs(Arrival, LOTSB, Overlord, Normandy crash etc)
I bought them because i loved the game and the story. I wanted more and rewarding the company that gave me the game was also a factor.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think if the stock price stuff is real then it is down to the fears over future sales. If you anger your customer base that you need to keep coming back to to sell future games that is a big problem.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I bought the DLC. I didn't join in the furore over it as i just considered it part of the real price for the complete game.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Miranda
Yes LI's are part of the experience
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
A mixture of affection for the characters gained from getting to know them and Shep just wanting to be the best he could be.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No I played paragade in my main playthrough.
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
Suicide mission, being pulled on board by Miranda
Defeating Saren, crashing a Mako into the Citadel
Bringing peace between Quarians and geth
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
No, they are an entertainment product.
Art is fluid anyhow.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I think there was too much autoshep which gave Shep too much of a canon approach rather than having the character reflect the players shep through choices at times.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No it is sloppy forced symbolism that should have no place in the game.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
No i think previous games had the same level of humorous moments
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No, Taking feedback during the good times is easy, doing it during the hard times is a sign of whether you are serious about teh endeavour or if it is a sham.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
Railroading is bad. In a choice driven game not allowing the player to have any influence over the fate of people he/she cares about is unacceptable.
Coupled with this is the plothole of the normandy's flight from battle where the only plausible reason is that joker became a yellow bellied coward and fled yet somehow managed to pick up crew members fighting on the ground.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
I think it would have been better to leave their purpose more mysterious. Maybe that is just a reaction to how poorly they implemented the spacechild with his nutty logic and the fact he diminished the reapers by his very presence.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
The fit of an ending matters. In a game all about choice to in effect to railroad players into one vision of a galactic dark age is bad. Also Shep is the protaganist and the ending removes him from this role. The Deux ex machina takes control of the game offering solutions to the problem which shep just mind boggingly accepts. A game which has been all about fighting and resisting evil ends with a whimper as the protaganist accepts evil was right all along and trots with tail between his/her legs to an a,b or a c ending said evil entity offers. The ending is disengaged from all that comes before and throws in conceptual ideas that are disengaged from all the personal aspects of the universe the player is engaged with.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
Jessica Chobot shouldn't have been in the game as she didn't have the acting chops for the role. I think it was a stunt to try and bring her sex appeal across. I think EA's advertising dollars had an impact on IGN's review not jessica's presence.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
0. I refuse to replay the game again in its current state. What motivation is there when the game's ending invalidates all that came before. Considering how many ME2 saves i've got waiting in line that's disappointing.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
Despise the ending
It should be changed
The ending destroys everything about the series and may very well destroy the franchise.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
Yes the ending is the factor why peopel aren't replaying.
MP was added because it is the latest fad and EA wanted it in this big launch.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
I didn't have a problem with the Garrus-Tali thing as i thought it was a natural pairing. I didn't romance either though.
Kai Leng could have done without his mask but other than that i though he was ok.
I had more of a problenm with some of the characterisation of ME2 characters made in order to sideline them. Miranda is a particularly glaring examaple of this.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
I think the game begins to feel rushed from Sanctuary onwards which affected the quality.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
No. The endings need a much more fundamental rework. An epilogue would be like rubbing salt into the current wound. I would pay for a proper reworking of the ending though.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
I think people are clutching at straws. All evidence coming out suggests what is there was what they planned to be there. It is just a truly staggeringly awful ending.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought all the story DLCs(Arrival, LOTSB, Overlord, Normandy crash etc)
I bought them because i loved the game and the story. I wanted more and rewarding the company that gave me the game was also a factor.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I think if the stock price stuff is real then it is down to the fears over future sales. If you anger your customer base that you need to keep coming back to to sell future games that is a big problem.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I bought the DLC. I didn't join in the furore over it as i just considered it part of the real price for the complete game.
#48
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:59
Laughing_Man
-
- Members
- 3 663 messages
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
A. Yes.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
A. Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
A. Liara (as the picture in my profile may suggest..), and overall I enjoyed the handling of her story.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
A. Hmm... I guess that was part of it.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
A. I wouldn't say forced me, but I did generally play mostly as paragon, with some renegade actions and answers here and there. The pure renegade just came off as a jerk, rather than pragmatic and practical.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
A. I saw some changes here and there, but I don't have strong feelings about it.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
A. I guess it was supossed to be poetic, but I was to dismayed with the ending to notice.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
A. I don't think ME 3 had more humor than 1 or 2, if anything it had more doom & gloom.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
A. I don't know.
But personally, I think that it has less to do with artistic integrity, and more to do with pride and the unwillingness to admit that a mistake was made.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
A. Because like other things in the ending, it dosn't make much sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
A. I don't know what should have been. But I certainly don't like the current explanation, due to the fact that it makes no sense.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
A. I only found a similarity to DeusExHR's ending, but while it was similar, DE's ending made some sort of sense, even if I can't say that I liked it very much.
ME3's ending Had too many problems to list here in a short answer.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
A. I think you need to be very naive to believe that IGN will be neutral considering.
About Tali's face, I was disappointed, because aside from lore reasons,
it feels like a cheap try to placate the fans.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
A. Yes.
I started a replay, but stopped after the first mission.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
A. I didn't like it. At all.
Why? because star-child's "logic" is ilogical.
Because alot of what we did didn't matter one bit.
Because while I think "Synthesis" ending is the lesser evil, it is completely implausible.
Because the only reason not to chose "Destroy " felt artificial, a tiny deus-ex-machina if you will,
so that the player won't choose the most natural option.
And because of other reasons, but I won't list them all here, if you are interested try searching the forums.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
A. The Ending is probably a large part of it.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
A. I think It's more like a death by a thousand cuts, none of this is horrible on it's own, but together and coupled with the ending...
Personally I didn't see anything outright wrong with garrus and tali, but I did think that Kai Leng felt abit cliche, and I did find the normandy escape rather strange - I think that it was forced so we could get the "Lost" ending.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
A. I'm not sure.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
A . I will have to know more about said DLC to decide.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
A. I don't know.
I think that the ending was bad, but I don't think they wanted to leave us with the impression that it was all a dream / indoctrination, if anything the fact that it's possible to explain the ending in this manner even though
It is quite clear (to me) that this wasn't what they meant - is another testimony to It's dubious quality.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
A. In general, I buy dlc's if I'm sufficiently intrigued by them, and \\ or like the original game.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
A.
Maybe.
Personally, I think that any stigma against poor products is a good thing.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
A. I did buy it, and I can't say i'm happy about this.
However, I cant say that I'm surprised, after all we are talking about a company who thinks that it's legitimate to sell ammo clips to players in the middle of the game.
All In all, while ME3 had the potential to be an amazing game, the whole experiance left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
A. Yes.
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
A. Yes.
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
A. Liara (as the picture in my profile may suggest..), and overall I enjoyed the handling of her story.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
A. Hmm... I guess that was part of it.
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
A. I wouldn't say forced me, but I did generally play mostly as paragon, with some renegade actions and answers here and there. The pure renegade just came off as a jerk, rather than pragmatic and practical.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
A. I saw some changes here and there, but I don't have strong feelings about it.
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
A. I guess it was supossed to be poetic, but I was to dismayed with the ending to notice.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
A. I don't think ME 3 had more humor than 1 or 2, if anything it had more doom & gloom.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
A. I don't know.
But personally, I think that it has less to do with artistic integrity, and more to do with pride and the unwillingness to admit that a mistake was made.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
A. Because like other things in the ending, it dosn't make much sense.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
A. I don't know what should have been. But I certainly don't like the current explanation, due to the fact that it makes no sense.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
A. I only found a similarity to DeusExHR's ending, but while it was similar, DE's ending made some sort of sense, even if I can't say that I liked it very much.
ME3's ending Had too many problems to list here in a short answer.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
A. I think you need to be very naive to believe that IGN will be neutral considering.
About Tali's face, I was disappointed, because aside from lore reasons,
it feels like a cheap try to placate the fans.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
A. Yes.
I started a replay, but stopped after the first mission.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
A. I didn't like it. At all.
Why? because star-child's "logic" is ilogical.
Because alot of what we did didn't matter one bit.
Because while I think "Synthesis" ending is the lesser evil, it is completely implausible.
Because the only reason not to chose "Destroy " felt artificial, a tiny deus-ex-machina if you will,
so that the player won't choose the most natural option.
And because of other reasons, but I won't list them all here, if you are interested try searching the forums.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
A. The Ending is probably a large part of it.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
A. I think It's more like a death by a thousand cuts, none of this is horrible on it's own, but together and coupled with the ending...
Personally I didn't see anything outright wrong with garrus and tali, but I did think that Kai Leng felt abit cliche, and I did find the normandy escape rather strange - I think that it was forced so we could get the "Lost" ending.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
A. I'm not sure.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
A . I will have to know more about said DLC to decide.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
A. I don't know.
I think that the ending was bad, but I don't think they wanted to leave us with the impression that it was all a dream / indoctrination, if anything the fact that it's possible to explain the ending in this manner even though
It is quite clear (to me) that this wasn't what they meant - is another testimony to It's dubious quality.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
A. In general, I buy dlc's if I'm sufficiently intrigued by them, and \\ or like the original game.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
A.
Maybe.
Personally, I think that any stigma against poor products is a good thing.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
A. I did buy it, and I can't say i'm happy about this.
However, I cant say that I'm surprised, after all we are talking about a company who thinks that it's legitimate to sell ammo clips to players in the middle of the game.
All In all, while ME3 had the potential to be an amazing game, the whole experiance left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
#49
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 09:24
Ieldra
-
- Members
- 25 180 messages
Infinityphoenix wrote...
[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Have you completed Mass Effect 3?
Yes
2. If not, do you know how the trilogy ends?
3. Have you played the previous 2 installments of the Mass Effect franchise?
Yes
4. If you have, which character was your LI in each installment? Did this affect how you enjoyed the game?
Ashley, Miranda, Miranda and yes.
5. In Mass Effect 2, presuming you saved every team member during the final chapter, was the overlying stories of the characters the main influence in saving them?
No
6. Did the reactions of renegade choices in the franchise forced you to play one way over the other?
No, but only because I cheated
7. What are your favorite 3 memories of the story’s franchise? Is there a common theme among them?
(1) Talk with Sovereign in ME1
(2) First encounter with Miranda in ME2
(3) Making peace between the quarians and the geth in ME3
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Do you believe video games are a form of art? Do you believe art is static or fluid?
Yes, and art can be static or fluid. However, since interpretation of the same work varies over time, and art is nothing without appreciation, I'd say art is best defined as fluid.
2. Throughout the third installment, some fans believed that Bioware /EA rewrote specific characters during important sequences. Do you have a similar opinion? If so, which characters do you have a problem with?
I do not understand this question. I have a problem with the way Miranda was written, but rewritten compared to what?
3. Do you think the Adam and Eve reference at the end of the game made sense, given the theme of co-existence between organic and synthetic organisms?
No.
4. Do you think Mass Effect 3 had more humorous moments than previous installments? If so, do you think it was to cut the theme of war and death in the game, or was this an attempt to detract fans from over thinking the ending?
I think there was more humorous content in ME3, and it was to offset the bleakness of the war scenario.
5. Given Bioware’s previous experience with incorporating player feedback into the series, do you think changing the ending all together would compromise Bioware / EA’s previous decisions and artistic integrity?
No. What's good enough for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle shouldn't be beneath Bioware to consoder.
6. With the death of well accepted characters in Mass Effect 3 as a part of trying close that character’s story, what makes stranding the crew any different?
(1) That their unpleasant fate doesn't achieve anything, as opposed to Mordin's and Legion's death which were meaningful and heroic. (2) That it doesn't make any sense. (3) That it feels like a deliberate kick in the face by the writers.
7. Do you think Bioware made the right choice in explaining the antagonist’s role in the series, or should it have been left alone?
It was the right choice, but the exposition itself was a major failure.
8. A lot of fans found the ending of Mass Effect 3 to be reminiscent of the ending’s of other franchises. Despite various amounts of plot holes in these franchises, they did well. What makes Mass Effect 3 different?
(1) The ME3 endings feel disconnected from the rest of the game.
(2) The ME3 endings all destroy the ME universe as a fictional setting, in the other franchises we had a choice about that.
(3) In DX1, achieving the different endings was realized in gameplay, in ME3 it's just press a button.
(4) By destroying the universe, the ME3 endings destroy the closure already achieved.
(5) By destroying the universe, the ME3 makes many choices in the trilogy irrelevant.
9. Bioware used 3-dimensional facial rendering for voice actress Jessica Chobot’s character Diana Allers, but photo-shopped a picture of Miss England 2005 Hammasa Kohistani for the character Tali’Zorah vas Normandy. Why do you think Bioware didn’t do something similar for a character synonymous with the franchise itself? Given IGN’s defense of the game and its endorsements, do you think Jessica’s role had an influence in the site’s score of the game? Do you the upset fans correct in making this presumption, or is it biased by looking for a scapegoat?
No idea.
Section 3: The Endings
1. Given that the game has been released since March 6 (in North America) have you beaten the game? How many times have you replayed the game?
I have completed two playthroughs.
2. What did you think of the ending? What is your position on it? Why do you have that opinion?
I think the ending is a roleplaying failure, an intellectual failure and an emotional failure. it is an ending that ruins dreams, a betrayal of everyone who is emotionally invested in the ME universe.
3. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were both known for their replay-ability value, what about Mass Effect 3? Do you think the ending is the main factor in this inability to replay the game, or do you think it’s because Bioware has been largely quiet about these reactions? Do you think this is why they added multiplayer capabilities?
The ending alone reduces replayability almost to zero.
4. Some pivotal moments in Mass Effect 3 have fans debating whether or not Bioware is degrading the values and quality of known characters in the franchise. For the most part, fan opinion of Cerberus assassin Kai Leng’s portrayal in Mass Effect 3 has been negative, mostly described by fans as being due to having multiple authors since the character’s introduction in the novels creating inconsistence’s in his personality. Others examples are the pairing of Garrus and Tali if the player does not romance them in the previous installment of the franchise, and Joker (the pilot of the character’s ship) abandoning the fight during its climax. What is your opinion of this? Are these accurate examples?
(1) Joker is an accurate example. He's totally out of character.
(2) Miranda has been mutilated as a character.
(3) Kai Leng appears a a generic character in ME3, not very interesting, but I do not know the reasons.
5. At which point do you think the quality of the writing changed the pace and feel of Mass Effect 3?
After Rannoch, and then again after Cronos Station.
6. Despite the popularity of the Shadow Broker text files in the Mass Effect 2 DLC [Lair of the Shadow Broker], would you pay for a new ending over a free text epilogue of the current endings?
Yes.
Apart from that, I hate the LotSB dossier of my favorite character.
7. Another point that fans argue about is whether the end game sequence of Mass Effect 3 was real or whether it was a dream. What is your opinion of this, where do you stand? Do either have good claims to support, or is this just a part of Bioware desiring speculation amongst fans? How is this different from the people who support a rewrite of the last sequence?
The ending of ME3 is real. All the inconsistencies are much better explained as bad writing, rushed development and the determination of the lead writers to railroad the story towards an ending that realizes a specific vision at the expense of the fans' enjoyment.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. Mass Effect 2 was known for having lots of Down-Loadable Content (DLC). Did you buy all of them? If not, which ones did you buy, and what was the reasoning behind buying them?
I bought almost everything but AAP1 (I thought it insulting to pay for an armor repair job). I bought the story-based DLC because I found them interesting, one weapon pack because it made Insanity easier, and the rest because they were cheap enough and I wanted a complete collection.
2. The Retake Movement has claimed responsibility over the recent decrease in EA stock prices, as well as causing the price of the game to decrease by 25%. In these instances, do you think the stigma against poor writing in entertainment will be a factor in the future aspects of entertainment, or will it be exclusive to the gaming industry?
I don't think it will have much effect except in the small part of the gaming industry who develops story-based and character-driven games.
3. Did you buy the “From Ashes” DLC? Given the premise of the plot, do you think the produces alienated themselves from their consumers by making them pay extra for a character that plays a crucial role in the history of the franchise, and have caused another rallying point for players upset about the vagueness of the ending?
I have "From Ashes" as part of the CE. And since it is now totally clear that Javik was suppposed to be part of the core team but removed, yes, I resent that Bioware ripped him out of the game to sell as DLC. It is a separate issue though, not connected to the ending. From Ashes is an insult to me as a customer, the endings are insulting to me as a reasonably intelligent human being and as a fan who is emotionally invested in the ME universe.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 avril 2012 - 09:29 .
#50
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:09
Ziggeh
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- Members
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[Section 1 – Prior Gameplay Experience]
1. Yep
2. N/A
3. Both
4. Liara, (sort of Samara) / Liara, and Liara. The question there has a very long answer, but the concise version is: yes, it gave me an additional relationship type that affected my decisions.
5. In most cases I cared enough that it was important that they lived, but essentially I'm a completionist and simply did everything available, which results in them living.
6. I suspect I would have been slightly more neutral if certain renegade options had not been as extreme, but I feel these options are an important part of replayability.
7. Sovereigns reveal, headbutting a Krogan and Garrus' talk at the memorial wall. Not much a common element, beyond the fact that they all changed the way I saw the in game universe in various way.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Yes and yes, but that second one is another long response. All art is fluid in the sense that an important aspect is context and context is never static, but whether pieces themselves should change would be a case by case question. "Art" is too large an umbrella to be described by a simple set of rules.
2. Not sure what the question is. I suspect conspiracy theories. If the question is do I believe that certain characters fell outside of their established personality, then no. Can't think of a case.
3. Perfect sense. Can't beat a biblical reference.
4. Bit of a leading question there. I think that while it does have more humour than previous installments (Though not a lot more than 2), it has two good reasons: It's more maudlin and this needed balance and Joker became more central due to his relationship with EDI. He's called Joker. An increase in jokes should not have been a suprise.
5. Yes. I don't place a lot of value in that integrity, but it would represent artistic compromise. There's a difference between writing new things to appeal directly to fans and removing old things.
6. It raises more questions than it answers. Which is what I'd call "The Problem". Conclusions to several storylines were broken, taking existing closure and reopens it.
7. You have to explain the antagonists motivation. "Unknowable" is a framing device. It was the central question of the franchise, failing to answer it would have been daft. Almost as daft as what we got.
8. Are we talking about Battlestar? Because I thought that was a great ending. Can't think of another comparison, but in general terms: it's a computer game, an interactive experience with different methods of engagement and investment.
9. Not a clue about the photoshop, don't really care one way or another. I think it had a subtlety a full reveal wouldn't have had, which feels important. As for the other: Game reviewing is a political business. Sad but true. Her appearance probably did have an effect, but I don't see why it matters. Who cares what they think?
Section 3: The Endings
1. Half way through a second run, having started from ME1
2. It's not a conclusion, it's just stopping. It replaces the central questions with more questions and doesn't try to answer or conclude them.
3. A little leading there. But yes, despite the game itself being a joy to play, replaying is a little galling knowing that it's not really going anywhere in terms of the overall narrative. The last part of that question presumes they believed the ending was awful far enough back to build large parts of the game.
4. I entirely disagree Joker was "running away", don't see how the garrus/tali thing degrades anything (and indeed found it a great example of crew interaction) and havene't read the novels and can't really comment on Kai Lang. In a more general sense I find the extent to which people feel they "own" the characters a bit odd. Not that we don't own some of them, the process if collaborative, but the author has a larger role than most people suggest they would like (which isn't the same thing as actually like)
5. Pace and feel? I think it's perfectly legitimate for both of theose to change in a stories ending. If you mean the point at which I started questioning what the duece was up: around the time we're told to "wake up". That said, having invested so much I was already cautious and critical, as far back as the saying of the goodbyes.
6. I'd pay for a new ending. I would likely not read a free text epilogue. That's not the way I've chosen to consume this narrative.
7. It's an interesting idea that if true is still horrible. The bad writing is still there, imaginary or not. Awful dialogue is not a clue. It's grasping at straws, holding up the absence of disbelief as evidence (Gun that doesn't overheat, must be a clue it's not real. Magically appearing/dissappearing guns in cutscenes, just fine), which is understandable but a bit silly.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. All of it. It's possibly the best game ever made. I wanted more of it. Was willing to pay.
2. The vast majority of games have horrible writing. Stories are glued on near the end just as something to string all the killing together. If anything the effect of this will be to limit the number of ongoing stories people will invest in, for fear of what will be percieved as unwarranted and fickle backlashes. As much as I'd like to see a new ending, we're really just hurting ourselves.
3. As above. Will pay more for further good game. I loved the character and am glad I paid. I'd be happier if they just charged more for the game and included such things, but don't have any real issue. I like buying stuff that I like. That said, I value the complaints as they at least limit the tide of gouging that would precede without them.
1. Yep
2. N/A
3. Both
4. Liara, (sort of Samara) / Liara, and Liara. The question there has a very long answer, but the concise version is: yes, it gave me an additional relationship type that affected my decisions.
5. In most cases I cared enough that it was important that they lived, but essentially I'm a completionist and simply did everything available, which results in them living.
6. I suspect I would have been slightly more neutral if certain renegade options had not been as extreme, but I feel these options are an important part of replayability.
7. Sovereigns reveal, headbutting a Krogan and Garrus' talk at the memorial wall. Not much a common element, beyond the fact that they all changed the way I saw the in game universe in various way.
Section 2: Bioware and Artistic Integrity
1. Yes and yes, but that second one is another long response. All art is fluid in the sense that an important aspect is context and context is never static, but whether pieces themselves should change would be a case by case question. "Art" is too large an umbrella to be described by a simple set of rules.
2. Not sure what the question is. I suspect conspiracy theories. If the question is do I believe that certain characters fell outside of their established personality, then no. Can't think of a case.
3. Perfect sense. Can't beat a biblical reference.
4. Bit of a leading question there. I think that while it does have more humour than previous installments (Though not a lot more than 2), it has two good reasons: It's more maudlin and this needed balance and Joker became more central due to his relationship with EDI. He's called Joker. An increase in jokes should not have been a suprise.
5. Yes. I don't place a lot of value in that integrity, but it would represent artistic compromise. There's a difference between writing new things to appeal directly to fans and removing old things.
6. It raises more questions than it answers. Which is what I'd call "The Problem". Conclusions to several storylines were broken, taking existing closure and reopens it.
7. You have to explain the antagonists motivation. "Unknowable" is a framing device. It was the central question of the franchise, failing to answer it would have been daft. Almost as daft as what we got.
8. Are we talking about Battlestar? Because I thought that was a great ending. Can't think of another comparison, but in general terms: it's a computer game, an interactive experience with different methods of engagement and investment.
9. Not a clue about the photoshop, don't really care one way or another. I think it had a subtlety a full reveal wouldn't have had, which feels important. As for the other: Game reviewing is a political business. Sad but true. Her appearance probably did have an effect, but I don't see why it matters. Who cares what they think?
Section 3: The Endings
1. Half way through a second run, having started from ME1
2. It's not a conclusion, it's just stopping. It replaces the central questions with more questions and doesn't try to answer or conclude them.
3. A little leading there. But yes, despite the game itself being a joy to play, replaying is a little galling knowing that it's not really going anywhere in terms of the overall narrative. The last part of that question presumes they believed the ending was awful far enough back to build large parts of the game.
4. I entirely disagree Joker was "running away", don't see how the garrus/tali thing degrades anything (and indeed found it a great example of crew interaction) and havene't read the novels and can't really comment on Kai Lang. In a more general sense I find the extent to which people feel they "own" the characters a bit odd. Not that we don't own some of them, the process if collaborative, but the author has a larger role than most people suggest they would like (which isn't the same thing as actually like)
5. Pace and feel? I think it's perfectly legitimate for both of theose to change in a stories ending. If you mean the point at which I started questioning what the duece was up: around the time we're told to "wake up". That said, having invested so much I was already cautious and critical, as far back as the saying of the goodbyes.
6. I'd pay for a new ending. I would likely not read a free text epilogue. That's not the way I've chosen to consume this narrative.
7. It's an interesting idea that if true is still horrible. The bad writing is still there, imaginary or not. Awful dialogue is not a clue. It's grasping at straws, holding up the absence of disbelief as evidence (Gun that doesn't overheat, must be a clue it's not real. Magically appearing/dissappearing guns in cutscenes, just fine), which is understandable but a bit silly.
Section 4: Economic Input
1. All of it. It's possibly the best game ever made. I wanted more of it. Was willing to pay.
2. The vast majority of games have horrible writing. Stories are glued on near the end just as something to string all the killing together. If anything the effect of this will be to limit the number of ongoing stories people will invest in, for fear of what will be percieved as unwarranted and fickle backlashes. As much as I'd like to see a new ending, we're really just hurting ourselves.
3. As above. Will pay more for further good game. I loved the character and am glad I paid. I'd be happier if they just charged more for the game and included such things, but don't have any real issue. I like buying stuff that I like. That said, I value the complaints as they at least limit the tide of gouging that would precede without them.
Modifié par Ziggeh, 05 avril 2012 - 10:11 .
