1648 réponses à ce sujet

[METALPUNKS]

How did I know that this would not be good enough for some people. Geesh you wanted a new ending and now you have it. I think it's pretty darn cool they are doing what they're doing. Some of us will enjoy every second of this. I just want to play more Mass Effect no matter how we get it and when. Also what did you think it was gonna be released next week. It's this summer that is not that far away. This stuff takes time and money, plus Bioware had no clue they were going to be working on a new ending. In a way it sucks because this crap is probably taking away from some serious dlc we would of had otherwise. They are going to listen to you, you'll the ending you wanted all along, why complain seriously!?

[SetecAstronomy]

ArthurBDD wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

There are other narratives besides massive space epic. Plenty of games have been popular without the context of saving the universe from overwhelming evil.

This.

Hell, don't have the next villain be an entire race (that's a skeevy enough them in itself), have them be a particularly bad apple from one of the existing civilisations with a dangerous scheme that could disrupt the whole galaxy. It can easily be done.

Exact-ly. [/garrus]

[Corbinus]

Lightice_av wrote...
There are other narratives besides massive space epic. Plenty of games have been popular without the context of saving the universe from overwhelming evil. A good storyteller can make an excellent storyline even out of minimalistic components. Personally I'd be extremely dissappointed if Bioware kept following the same plot-structure forever just because it's epic.

That being said, I suspect that the sequel will revolve around the questions and conflicts that emerge with the rise of transhumanism, repeatedly hinted at during ME3.

Yes, there are the other narratives. The whole problem that we are talking about ME games, which always were exactly  about saving the universe from overwhelming evil.
Transhumanism? Where did we see it rise? Cerberus goons? Not good enough I am afraid..
EDI and Joker? Well, its only  a single example... Synthesis? Well, if they will make it canon, then yes...

[Blarty]

Fenderbaum wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Good luck with that one without Relay travel.

Why people still imagine that it's impossible to build new Relays, I have no idea.

I'm sure they can't build a relay over night and then they need to travel to another systme which may take years and build another relay.......ect. Meanwhile, in fighting and whole spieces starve to death since a lot of then were already dealing with small caches of supplies.

Liara also put blueprints of the Relays in her information storage unit that she planted on several locations....

And AGAIN....the ending cutscene is set a very long way in the future...Shepherd has 'passed into legend'....so AGAIN...it's obvious no one has done anythign for God knows how long...thus...relays have not been rebuilt etc etc etc....

The ending cutscene is an old man talking to a child, in a fashion that the child understands nothing more. My word, that very last bit with the Stargazer doesn't have to be many, many years into the future 

[Fenderbaum]

I think a lot of people have totally failed to see just how damaging this is. This is EAs latest Label. BioWare was going to be their main label that didn't have EA slapped on it. Its barely off the ground and three of its four releases have seen crashing player reviews and major crushing issues that were never present when BioWare was solely BioWare.

Sure, I'm being melodramatic, but I think BioWare as a game company is suffering a slow painful death right now.

Icinix...spot on.

[BurnOutBrighter]

Marauder Shields did not give his life just so we could spend MORE time in that awful ending! #RetakeMassEffect

[crazyrabbits]

Persephone wrote...

Where does it state that they don't know how to USE it?

Shepard asking Hackett what to do just before he tries the controls. He doesn't know. No one told him how to use it.

Magic elevator? No more magical than say....Biotics?

Biotics had a (ridiculous, but explained) justification. The magic elevator comes out of nowhere.

The Catalyst has been hinted at throughout the game

No, it wasn't. Shepard's guilt over the child was. Not the controller of the Reapers.

Don't care about DE. Not a plot hole but an abandoned storyline.

Many do. It would have had prior explanation. They abandoned it for something much, much worse.

"Starchild" looking like that is manipulation, plain and simple. Psychological torture for Shepard. Love that, actualy.

Headcanon. Nothing is explained about it in-game, and it shows up in the last ten minutes.

The synthetics rebelling against organics etc. is an old conflict.

Aside from the Geth-Quarian conflict, it was not present anywhere else in the trilogy, nor was it ever indicated to be part of the Reapers' motivation.

Choices being similar to Deus Ex doesn't bother me. Greater authors than Bioware's team have blatantly stolen entire plotlines. Ever heard of Shakespeare? Pushkin?

Doesn't make it right, especially when there was a game released last year that gave you almost the exact same choices (with better explanation).

Mess Relays being lost isn't a plot hole. It's a consequence. And I think they remain intact if you have a big enough EMS score and choose Control. (I've seen it)

Starchild says they'll be destroyed no matter what option is picked. Same stock footage for all three endings.

Cutscenes/Colors being re-used is an old tradition. Blue/red in M1&ME2. Not a plothole either. A cosmetic issue.

I never said it was a plothole. I'm saying it's lazy.

Strongest indication that what we see past Harbinger is a dream/illusion/desperate hope of a dying/indoctrinated soul.

Oh good, more fanwank.

Let me know when you come back down to Earth.

[garf]

Lightice_av wrote...

Sorry, no ME4 in the future without a big antagonist of some type. Point of fact. NO game except crap like Secondlife, Sims, etc, have no major antagonist(s). Those that do NEVER go from BIG antagonist to a bunch of piddly little minor antagonsts. Isn't done for good reason.

A pathetic opinion all things considered. You've never, ever watched a movie that isn't a SUPER BLOCKBUSTER with huge explosions and saving the world from ULTIMATE EVIL, right? Because I can assure you that there's plenty of great stories that can be told that don't include the threat of the galaxy blowing up in your face.

Frankly the Reapers are somewhat lacklustre antagonists, for all the threat they pose. They have no face and no purpose beyond destroying organic life. They are not personal enemies, and you can't hate them as individuals. This is the biggest problem of the ME narrative, I think. An enemy you can look in the face and whose motivations you can sympathize with is always better than a giant deathmachine of doom.

Got to agree with you. I've always thought the the Mass Effect universe had endless possibilities for all kinds of stories from the freebooting tramp fighter of misfits, each with their own pasts (and NO I don't JUST mean Firefly) to hell.. I'd even give Vaenia a try.

[nikki191]

fern222 wrote...

Man in the summer? If  this is true that means that none of this was planned. They expected that people would love the endings.

from a quote before release they expected "SOME" fans would be angry with the ending. they however underestimated the number and level of hated.

while ill add this dlc to my account at this stage its not worth reinstalling the game for it.. i might watch it on youtube but yeah too little way too late.

after seeing what happens at pax thats it for me on this forum and my interest in bioware

Modifié par nikki191, 05 avril 2012 - 03:02 .

[Lightice_av]

Name the games that started out epic and big and then continued as nitnoid and minor and were successful. Name a game that had big, bad enemy to...no real enemies, no real trial, no real problem to defeat, just a bunch of petty criminals or mercs.

Who says anything about "petty criminals or mercs"? Transhumamism is an issue that can divide the galaxy in two and create grounds for a giant war where both sides have a point and can be sympathized with, but neither can tolerate coexistence with the other.

Lets take Doctor Who for an example by the way; the Doctor can be saving the entire multiverse in one episode, and then be saving five people from a crashing spaceship the next, and both can be equally compelling and fascinating stories.

[Persephone]

nikki191 wrote...

fern222 wrote...

Man in the summer? If  this is true that means that none of this was planned. They expected that people would love the endings.

from a quote before release they expected "SOME" fans would be angry with the ending. they however underestimated the number and level of hated.

while ill add this dlc to my account at this stage its not worth reinstalling the game for it.. i might watch it on youtube but yeah too little way too late

Nikki, it's FREE. You might as well get it.

[Estelindis]

f1r3storm wrote...

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer of the Mass Effect series added, “We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player.”

Even more context and clarity than we already have?  How is such a thing possible?  

Seriously, sarcasm off, he's implying that the ending already has a lot of context and is already quite clear...  If he genuinely believes this, then he doesn't understand the objections being made to the ending and, thus, there's no way he can actually resolve the horrendous internal contradictions.

I really wanted Bioware's next press release to make me feel more optimistic than this.  

[StarAce905-2]

If this is true, and it really is free, I'd say it's a good compromise. At least try to stuff those plotholes a bit.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

in the Galaxy new species come to travel :

the Varren and the Pijaks

[cgvhjb]

Icinix wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

As an interesting aside, DLC usually has a pretty low take up for gamers, wonder if this will set new records.

Be interesting to see how many people download it, I mean, if you're truly happy with the ending you won't want it.

By then how many people will care? This is just a PR bid to avoid an unpleasent PAX. They may even turn around after a couple of months and say the plans have been dropped, like they did with DA2 DLC.

I imagine they'll have something to whet the appetite a little more immediately at Pax - otherwise they're going to be pushing a train full of crap uphill for sure.

I think a lot of people have totally failed to see just how damaging this is. This is EAs latest Label. BioWare was going to be their main label that didn't have EA slapped on it. Its barely off the ground and three of its four releases have seen crashing player reviews and major crushing issues that were never present when BioWare was solely BioWare.

Sure, I'm being melodramatic, but I think BioWare as a game company is suffering a slow painful death right now.

What gets me about all of this is Dr Muzyka's comment "With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have
struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for
while maintaining the team’s artistic vision for the end of this story
arc in the Mass Effect universe" which seems to say "We want to do our part to shut everyone up but we're not willing to sacrifice our pride and admit we made a TERRIBLE ending, this will give us an opportunity to find a way to cover up the steaming pile of an ending we made".

So to me at least this just means little to nothing at all as I'm not looking for any more space magic or an ending based all around that. I'm looking for an ending where my choices matter and have a direct result in how London and the ending play out, not more exposition based on some inane plot device thrown in at the very end of the game.

Say it with me Bioware "We messed up, we know we did and we're working to make this right by including a new ending that will allow our players to wrap up Shepards story in a direct, feasible way that takes into account the choices made through out the game and offers the closure players have so desperately been asking for"

[rizuno]

Persephone wrote...

crazyrabbits wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I have yet to see the "MANY irrevocable plotholes and illogical nonsense" (Bloody hyperbole, I am so sick of this being repeated at nauseam.... it has no more plot holes than ME2 ending(s)...)

-- Shepard doesn't know how to operate the Crucible. Does anyone? They didn't tell him???
-- magic space elevator?
-- Character introduced from nowhere in last 10 minutes to explain the plot (macguffin)
-- Dark Energy foreshadowing from previous games tossed out the door
-- Starchild somehow looks like the kid you've been dreaming about the entire game
-- "Synthetics have to kill organics to save organics" hogwash
-- Ending ignores choices you've made through game; synthetic-organic cooperation is pointless
-- endings seem to be a direct lift of the final choices from the original Deus Ex
-- the "best" ending (the one that needs the highest amount of EMS to obtain) is "Synthesis" (Saren's plan)
-- "Synthesis" ending is ridiculous, uses unexplained technology and amounts to forced changes for all of galaxy
-- "Destroy" ending has Shepard walk up to exploding generator for no real reason
-- endings betray the themes set up throughout trilogy (free will, overcoming the odds, unity)
-- despite giving us hope in the prior games, endings all end with galaxy in hopeless situation
-- Mass Relay system is destroyed in all endings; no evidence to the contrary
-- Cutscenes pretty much look the same (with a couple small differences)
-- different coloured explosions (in three delicious flavours!)
-- No closure or resolution for squadmates, NPC's, Normandy, etc.
-- Liara or A/K flashback - any other love interest? Liara flashback for you!
-- squadmates teleport back to Normandy, even if they were shown lying dead on the ground after Harbinger attack
-- Normandy is inexplicably fleeing during Shepard's decision? Really?
-- unexplained "Shepard Lives" scene (is he on the Citadel? In London? In space?)
-- bizarre "Stargazer" scene that has no real point

You're ignorant if you think there are no problems with it. This list is only scratching the surface.

Where does it state that they don't know how to USE it?

Magic elevator? No more magical than say....Biotics?

The Catalyst has been hinted at throughout the game

Don't care about DE. Not a plot hole but an abandoned storyline.

"Starchild" looking like that is manipulation, plain and simple. Psychological torture for Shepard. Love that, actualy.

The synthetics rebelling against organics etc. is an old conflict. A lot of movies have the same premise (Synthetics wanting to erase their creators) and it's not illogical either. Just because of ONE peaceful scene at Rannoch all the geth/synthetics are fluffballs now? I think not. It's more complicated. NEITHER extreme logic works out in the end.

See above

Saren never wanted synthesis. He want collaboration. Making yourself useful to the Reapers.

Choices being similar to Deus Ex doesn't bother me. Greater authors than Bioware's team have blatantly stolen entire plotlines. Ever heard of Shakespeare? Pushkin?

The next few "plot holes" are just a selection of "I didn't win against all odds! RAGE!". Irrelevant.

Mess Relays being lost isn't a plot hole. It's a consequence. And I think they remain intact if you have a big enough EMS score and choose Control. (I've seen it)

Cutscenes/Colors being re-used is an old tradition. Blue/red in M1&ME2. Not a plothole either. A cosmetic issue.

No closure isn't a plot hole. There are plenty of great stories where you aren't served everything on a platter in the end.

As for the last few "problems": Strongest indication that what we see past Harbinger is a dream/illusion/desperate hope of a dying/indoctrinated soul. Including that she'd want her LI to be safe on the Normandy, finding some sort of paradise.

That is how the ending came across to me.

I believe there are several conversations in game that go something like..."we don't even know what it does..."  And HOW is Shepard supposed to know how to activate/work it?  The crucible is a big clunky PlotDevice.  We know nothing about it.  

Telekinesis is a well established psuedo-scientific phenom in scifi

Not until thessia and then it's all...'there is something out there...duh duh duh"

yes abandoned

get looking like the kiddo...still a humongoid PlotDeviceofExplanation

HOW is 'synthetics harvest (another way of saying kill, i mean, wheat becomes bread but it's still, you know...dead and not wheat anymore) organics so they won't create synthetics that will kill them.  Self defeating logic.  circular.  

But the worst one for me is that Shepard breathing scene.  Blow up self on Citadel, Citadel explodes, DESCENDS INTO THE ATMOSPHERE CRASHES ON EARTH and Shepard STILL ALIVE?  That's worse than all the fires burning IN SPACE.  How do you clarify that s***? 

[Getorex]

Blarty wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

There cannot be a ME4 in the future. No relays. Also, no antagonist. ALL games require a real antagonist. The ONLY games that dont have them are realtime strategy games and crappy MMOs. ALL games have a big antagonist in one form or another. The Reapers were THE antagonist of the ME universe. They leave them gone in ME3 one way or another. They tossed out dark energy so there is NOTHING to step into the Reaper position.

New Relays can always be built. The Conduit proves that organics are capable of building Mass Relays, the quantum entanglers still communicate in all major population centers and the finest minds of the galaxy are OK in the Crucible project.

And you really lack imagination if you think that no new antagonists can be invented for the Mass Effect universe. There's no need for a sequel to try to one-up the previous game with bigger bad guys. The focus can be shifted totally to a more morally ambigious war between two factions, or even a personal story of one guy who is not out to save the galaxy, but just themselves and their loved ones from a villain of smaller scale. I've speculated for awhile of a game set entirely on the Citadel or Omega giving a more grassroot perspective of the Mass Effect universe.

Ugh...you don't understand how quantum entanglement actually works.  It is NOT (and cannot be) like some regular radio but with fancy quantum tech stuck on it.  To ENTANGLE something means that it has to be in direct communication/contact with that which you want to entangle it.  You have to first entangle atoms/molecules, then separate them and THEN use them for communication...and while doing this you CONSUME them.  They cannot be used again.  Once you use entangled atoms/molecules for measuring or communicating, they are done.  Their entanglement ceases.

There cannot be ongoing quantum entanglement communication across the galaxy unless there is a way to transport half of the entangled atoms/molecules to the recipient.  NO RELAYS.  

Forget quantum entanglement communication.  It isn't what you think it is and cannot do what you think it can.

And you clearly don't understand how QEC actually works - it's based on two particular particles that occupy dual states 

I DO know how real life quantum entanglement works and how it COULD be used (not is, but COULD be used) for comm.  It does require that the entangled atoms/molecules first be entangled.  They have to be associated.  You cannot simply entangle an atom of xenon over there with your atom of xenon over here.  Can't be done.  Quantum entanglement requires intimate association first.  THEN all the magic of entanglement can be discerned.  Once.

[Lightice_av]

But You have to admit that for fantasy universe Mass Effect is very logical.
So there should be some logic or as You may wish "ME-logic".

The quantum entanglement as explained in Mass Effect is perfectly logical. It ties two points together to instantaneous two-way communication, and these points can be moved as far away from one another as desired without losing the effect. No third parties can be attached into the communication however, it has to be with only two points. This is perfectly consistent and logical within the context of the ME universe.

[Fxnris]

My Shepard survived, will the extended cut take this into account or will it be canon he died?

I got every war asset in the game, I want to be rewarded for that.

[Merilsell]

Still haven't played ME3, so I'm pretty cool with that new ending business and all that. Even for free, though I do believe it will be used as a hook to BUY MOAR DLC, later on. Ah well *shrug*

[Shadowtirs]

http://www.g4tv.com/...mander-shepard/

Just remember folks, all along it seemed like they reserved to keep Shepard around. My guess? They wanted to create a cliffhanger ending for 3, to then lead into the conclusion of the story through DLCs. They did a terrible job with the "cliffhanger" though, hence all the outrage.

If the ending wasn't so filled with plot holes and inconsistencies, it would have been masterfully done. They took a shot and they missed, and now they're taking steps to fix it. I reserve all judgement until this epilogue is downloaded and I've played through it. I will also not buy any DLCs (for 2 or 3) until I judge that the game was finished to my satisfaction.

And again, for all those people criticizing ME3 fans for being "entitled", you forget that we are CONSUMERS. So yes, we are entitled, because as consumers we have a right to be satisfied for a product we purchase. If ME3 was free then nobody could complain. But it's not, and we as consumers have rights!

[Lightice_av]

I DO know how real life quantum entanglement works and how it COULD be used (not is, but COULD be used) for comm. It does require that the entangled atoms/molecules first be entangled.

One little thing: Mass Effect does not run on real world physics, and in it quantum entanglement works just as long as you like. You are never told "we ran out of particles to entangle" while talking with Anderson or the Illusive Man. Mass Effect is not realistic, as you may have noticed.

[Vanni127]

Don't be fooled people. The wording clearly states it won't alter the ending in any way. And the "Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes." bit?

We don't want deeper insights into Casey and Mac's circlejerk of an ending. We wanted a new one. One that actually made sense and didn't throw everything about the last 2 3/4 games out the damn window.

Sadly...we won't get that. And EAware doesn't care about us one bit. Only our money. So there you have it people. Keep fighting. Keep holding that line. This changes nothing.

Our choices matter! Hold the line!