1648 réponses à ce sujet

[Rafficus III]

I can't wait to roll around laughing hysterically when someone creates a thread asking for a refund. I say this jokingly, but we are talking about a crowd that asked for refunds from a charity and for a game they "loved," but weren't willing to wait it out to see it fixed. I'd like to be proven wrong.... but it's plausible. I mean who else here predicted that the very fans prematurely accusing Bioware for charging for this ending DLC would completely overlook the kind gesture of giving it for free and instead rabble about them not getting exactly pin point what they asked for? I know I did in other forums. I'm just happy Bioware listened to what I said, or implemented something completely identical to what I asked for, you know... free ending DLC clarity 

Modifié par hornedfrog87, 06 avril 2012 - 05:55 .

[mauro2222]

alek2702 wrote...

Sure they do, but I think something as big as the ending of their story should be up to them to decide.

Never again...

[alek2702]

Major Nemesis wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Major Nemesis wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Major Nemesis wrote...

Extending? So they aren't changing it... Thats a bad choice. We don't want an explanation, we want the option of having a good ending. You can keep all the existing endings in the game but we also want an actual good ending where the mass relays don't explode, the Reapers get destroyed, and Shepard lives. Oh yeah, and no ghost child... As an extended cut, this is only going to make people more angry at why you decided to kill Shepard. It will also only show everyone sad that they lost Shepard. Why do we want to see that?

Newsflash: you don't always get what you want.
It's not your story to say what you want it to be.

Newsflash: about a million people agree with me

That only means there are 'about a million' (i'd say about 60,000) more entitled whiners out there.

We can agree to disagree. Thank you for your opinion.

Sorry if I sounded rude, I didn't mean that.
But, what I mean is get over it already. It's been a month since the game's out, Bioware just announced a free DLC and there's still all the "That's not what I wanted" talk...

[staindgrey]

BusterHighman wrote...

Except a burger wasn't on the menu.

Using your same terrible analogy: A box was on the menu. You had the option of consuming the contents of said box. You didn't know if you were going to enjoy the contents of this box, but you decided to finish it anyway. You could have chosen not to.

The "burger" in this case is an ending that actually follows what the rest of the franchise-- and the company's history-- established. ME is a story-driven franchise created by a company founded on its quality story-telling. It's advertised as a game in which your decisions matter in visible ways, and you create your own story. All of this is changed in the current ending. The quality of the storytelling drops significantly (you should never alter the laws of the canonical universe in the waning moments, nor should you introduce a deus ex machina to cause the ending, nor should you trump established themes for a new one in the eleventh hour, nor should you betray the main character's personality, etc.), the decisions you've made become moot points, and ultimately, anything and everything the ME franchise was is upended in favor of... something else entirely.

So I came to a burger joint expecting a burger, because this restaurant is known for making burgers. They're good at making burgers. Burgers are what they do best. But when I got my order, it wasn't what I ordered, or expected, or wanted. So when I asked for it to be redone, they redid the thing I didn't want. Regardless of its price, I still don't want it, and my expectations based on the history of the company and the product in question still weren't met.

It's fine to have different opinions. But don't belittle mine as whining just because it varies from yours.

[alek2702]

staindgrey wrote...

So I came to a burger joint expecting a burger, because this restaurant is known for making burgers. They're good at making burgers. Burgers are what they do best. But when I got my order, it wasn't what I ordered, or expected, or wanted. So when I asked for it to be redone, they redid the thing I didn't want. Regardless of its price, I still don't want it, and my expectations based on the history of the company and the product in question still weren't met.

It's fine to have different opinions. But don't belittle mine as whining just because it varies from yours.

Comparing storytelling to food won't get you far.
Sometimes writers (artists:O) want to try new things, you know...

[staindgrey]

alek2702 wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

So I came to a burger joint expecting a burger, because this restaurant is known for making burgers. They're good at making burgers. Burgers are what they do best. But when I got my order, it wasn't what I ordered, or expected, or wanted. So when I asked for it to be redone, they redid the thing I didn't want. Regardless of its price, I still don't want it, and my expectations based on the history of the company and the product in question still weren't met.

It's fine to have different opinions. But don't belittle mine as whining just because it varies from yours.

Comparing storytelling to food won't get you far.
Sometimes writers (artists:O) want to try new things, you know...

The artist label doesn't free them of quality expectations. There are specific rules to crafting a narrative that are not meant to be broken. THAT is what I find wrong with the ending, not that it "isn't what I like".

Think of it this way: If you paid someone to build you a house, and the house wasn't built right, would you just say, "Oh, well, they're the construction experts, not me"? The ending in question goes against established rules of conventional storytelling. That's not a matter of artistic freedom; that's a matter of messing up. I'm asking for them to fix the mess up instead of clarifying the mess up so it may seem a little less messy.

[vania z]

"Q:Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
A:No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I don't understand what is wrong with redoing ending. It has been done many times in movie industry by great directors, like Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

Modifié par vania z, 06 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[mauro2222]

vania z wrote...

"No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I don't understand what is wrong with redoing ending. It has been done many times in movie industry by great directors, like Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

Pride and arrogance, my friend. When you are so full of it, you believe that anything you do is perfect, and if it's bad then you blame the ones who think is bad.

[Kya]

GREAT!!!

Now can I have my FACE fixed so I can START playing BEFORE discussing the END? Thank you.



Also not interested in spending any more money on this franchise. The disappointment has been too great.

What's the point of more content if the ending remains the same?

Modifié par Kya, 06 avril 2012 - 06:13 .

[staindgrey]

vania z wrote...

"No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I don't understand what is wrong with redoing ending. It has been done many times in movie industry by great directors, like Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

Not to be the conspiracy theorist here, but it's a misdirection attempt. They're labeling their reasons as "artistic freedom", when really, they can't change the ending because they already planned to continue the franchise with this ending in place. That's why they're all so similar, much like how ME2 had to end with you wiping out the Collectors one way or another, in blue or red versions.

So even though the shoehorned ending is awful for a list of quality reasons, they can't actually change it due to their future plans for ME as a franchise. That's just my theory, anyway. If it's true, that means no matter what we do, the ending will never become something reasonable. It'll always be what it is, just with free coats of paint on top.

[vania z]

mauro2222 wrote...
Pride and arrogance, my friend. When you are so full of it, you believe that anything you do is perfect, and if it's bad then you blame the ones who think is bad.
That's sad if true. 

2 staindgrey
Well, I know one thing that can do the trick - it is not buying anything from bioware until they fix it. I haven't myself finished ME3 yet, but godchild is nonsense no matter how they will present it and in which context. 

Modifié par vania z, 06 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[Major Nemesis]

alek2702 wrote...

Major Nemesis wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Major Nemesis wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Major Nemesis wrote...

Extending? So they aren't changing it... Thats a bad choice. We don't want an explanation, we want the option of having a good ending. You can keep all the existing endings in the game but we also want an actual good ending where the mass relays don't explode, the Reapers get destroyed, and Shepard lives. Oh yeah, and no ghost child... As an extended cut, this is only going to make people more angry at why you decided to kill Shepard. It will also only show everyone sad that they lost Shepard. Why do we want to see that?

Newsflash: you don't always get what you want.
It's not your story to say what you want it to be.

Newsflash: about a million people agree with me

That only means there are 'about a million' (i'd say about 60,000) more entitled whiners out there.

We can agree to disagree. Thank you for your opinion.

Sorry if I sounded rude, I didn't mean that.
But, what I mean is get over it already. It's been a month since the game's out, Bioware just announced a free DLC and there's still all the "That's not what I wanted" talk...

That's great that you have your opinion. I just finished the game a few days ago. So this is all new to me. And if you don't want to sound rude, you might not want to tell people "get over it already."

[iDeevil]

vania z wrote...

"Q:Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
A:No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I don't understand what is wrong with redoing ending. It has been done many times in movie industry by great directors, like Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

You're going to have to tell me when these directed rewrote, reshot and reedited a new ending for the public because people complain.  Because I can't think of that happening knowing how expensive and difficult it'll be to do that.

Truth is we don't know what exactly will be added to these endings.  They just might make everyone happy.  It's like judging a book the crappiest sequel ever because it doesn't have a pretty cover.

For all we know between now and the release of this DLC they'll come up wih something more substantial.  They might announce a new game in the franchise to help answer the questions left after the extended ending.  There are many possibilities.  I'm not going to assume he worst here.  I admit to the journey being more important than he destination though so the ending affected me different than some.  

Can I also remind folks, for an assure, not all fans are onthe same page with the ending so can we quit with the 'this is not what *we* want' talk and only speak for ourselves?
C

[alek2702]

vania z wrote...
(...) It has been done many times in movie industry by great directors, like Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

The only time I remember them changing endings is when they were forced by the studios to make endings more people will like (sounds familiar?) and then, years later they went back to their original vision.

[vania z]

alek2702 wrote...
The only time I remember them changing endings is when they were forced by the studios to make endings more people will like (sounds familiar?) and then, years later they went back to their original vision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner
And not only endings were changed, some other scenes too
http://en.wikipedia..../Han_shot_first
It is quite common for directors to review their work, add something/change/etc.

I'm not sure if there are any books that were changed after publishing though. 

Modifié par vania z, 06 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[alek2702]

vania z wrote...

alek2702 wrote...
The only time I remember them changing endings is when they were forced by the studios to make endings more people will like (sounds familiar?) and then, years later they went back to their original vision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner
And not only endings were changed, some other scenes too
http://en.wikipedia..../Han_shot_first
It is quite common for directors to review their work, add something/change/etc.

I'm not sure if there are any books that were changed after publishing though. 

The 'happy ending' of Blade Runner was forced upon Ridley by the studio and he hated it. A couple of years later he went back to his original version and that's the version most viewers and critics believe to be superior.
Same story with "The Kingdom of Heaven" and Spielberg's "Close Encounters".

And Lucas is hated exactly for changing the movies.

I don't think you'll find one example of their movies changed for the better.

Modifié par alek2702, 06 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[iDeevil]

When the movie goes to the public no director will reshoot anything to make another ending. New ending are filmed durin production, or they are edited together from stuff they already have.

Bladerunner's biggest change was the VoiceOver. An yes, sometimes we'll get a directors cut edition of a movie, or an extended edition but it's still from stuff teu'vr already filmed. It's just a spit, polish and reedit. Hell most movies today are designed to have multiple editions released and additional scenes are filmed for it.

This is MUCH different than having a movie released, like Harry Potter, and the audience complains they don't like Ron Weasley so much that they decide to reshoot the final movies ending to kill him off. As I said before, once a movie goes to the audience they aren't goin to film anything additional for it.

[vania z]

alek2702 wrote...

The 'happy ending' of Blade Runner was forced upon Ridley by the studio and he hated it. A couple of years later he went back to his original version and that's the version most viewers and critics believe to be superior.

And Lucas is hated exactly for changing the movies.

Do you think after 25 years his vision has not changed? 
Lots of movies every year are changed in diffrent releases, I don't see what is so special about Lucas here. 

[staindgrey]

alek2702 wrote...

vania z wrote...

alek2702 wrote...
The only time I remember them changing endings is when they were forced by the studios to make endings more people will like (sounds familiar?) and then, years later they went back to their original vision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner
And not only endings were changed, some other scenes too
http://en.wikipedia..../Han_shot_first
It is quite common for directors to review their work, add something/change/etc.

I'm not sure if there are any books that were changed after publishing though. 

The 'happy ending' of Blade Runner was forced upon Ridley by the studio and he hated it. A couple of years later he went back to his original version and that's the version most viewers and critics believe to be superior.
Same story with Spielberg's "Close Encounters".

And Lucas is hated exactly for changing the movies.

I don't think you'll find one example of their movies changed for the better.

But those situations are different. The cut endings in question were quality endings in terms of narrative and fitting the rest of the movie in general, but were changed to expand the potential audience.

ME3's ending, instead, is an objectively bad ending from a narrative standpoint, and a subjectively bad ending from an enjoyment standpoint. The others mentioned were only subjectively bad, not objectively. Not everyone understands this, but my whole schooling/career revolves around literature and criticism of it. There's a lot wrong with the current ending that people experience but don't fully understand in a way they can put into words, so they grasp at other reasons or convince themselves it's not actually bad, or it's just "artistic freedom" at work.

Artisitc freedom walked out the door when nobody revised the rough draft of this ending.

[alek2702]

vania z wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

The 'happy ending' of Blade Runner was forced upon Ridley by the studio and he hated it. A couple of years later he went back to his original version and that's the version most viewers and critics believe to be superior.

And Lucas is hated exactly for changing the movies.

Do you think after 25 years his vision has not changed? 
Lots of movies every year are changed in diffrent releases, I don't see what is so special about Lucas here. 

What are you on about? The studio forced Ridley to change the ending that was already written to something more people will like and understand (again, sounds familiar?). His vision was the same since the beginning (see the workprint version from before the theatrical release).

And name one film where the director added obvious CGI 25 years after the original release.

Modifié par alek2702, 06 avril 2012 - 06:53 .

[Lincoln MuaDib]

Star Wars.

[alek2702]

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

Star Wars.

Jesus, read the posts first, will you?
I already mentioned how Lucas is hated for the changes, vania said there was nothing special about them so I asked him/her to name one film (other that Star Wars) where such changes were made.

[Emzamination]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

I can't wait to roll around laughing hysterically when someone creates a thread asking for a refund. I say this jokingly, but we are talking about a crowd that asked for refunds from a charity and for a game they "loved," but weren't willing to wait it out to see it fixed. I'd like to be proven wrong.... but it's plausible. I mean who else here predicted that the very fans prematurely accusing Bioware for charging for this ending DLC would completely overlook the kind gesture of giving it for free and instead rabble about them not getting exactly pin point what they asked for? I know I did in other forums. I'm just happy Bioware listened to what I said, or implemented something completely identical to what I asked for, you know... free ending DLC clarity 

Yeah, the whole asking for refunds from a kids charity was low we'll just sweep that under the rug and let time cover up that shame.

[iDeevil]

staindgrey wrote...


But those situations are different. The cut endings in question were quality endings in terms of narrative and fitting the rest of the movie in general, but were changed to expand the potential audience.

ME3's ending, instead, is an objectively bad ending from a narrative standpoint, and a subjectively bad ending from an enjoyment standpoint. The others mentioned were only subjectively bad, not objectively. Not everyone understands this, but my whole schooling/career revolves around literature and criticism of it. There's a lot wrong with the current ending that people experience but don't fully understand in a way they can put into words, so they grasp at other reasons or convince themselves it's not actually bad, or it's just "artistic freedom" at work.

Artisitc freedom walked out the door when nobody revised the rough draft of this ending.

Thank you!!!

I agree that the endings needed more editing.  It has less to do with the end game, and more to do with the build up that takes us there.  They just didn't figure out the context of the endings, if they had of the 'end game' (by that we mean where we ended up) would have objectively from a narrative stand-point held up.

From an enjoyment standpoint perhaps not, but that's always a harder sell.

Although, objectively, the Mass Effect series has had a number of huge narrative problems that were never addressed.  While people are complaining about the end, they ignore many of the other narrative issues that have plagued the series since the beginning.  But unlike in a book and a movie, given that we are an active participant in this universe, they are often overlooked.  It was hard for the ending to be completely overlooked because we stopped intereacting.

[AngryFrozenWater]

What was again? More than 25,000 lines of voice acting rerecorded for TW1? The game was horrible at release. The gamers made sure that CDPR understood that. So, they changed lots of things. Not only the voice acting. It was a complete overhaul. The gamers loved the company for taking the effort and making the new version available for free to registered users. I don't think they felt it as a defeat or giving in. The company merely felt it as the right thing to do. BW could do something similar with the ending. Good for their image.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 avril 2012 - 07:03 .