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EA announces Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut


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#1626
greggm2000

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Kanner wrote...
They have been *very* firm and insistant in their declarations about the ending.

It is 'art' and for their own integrity they can't be bullied into changing it.

Even if it's particularly terrible art that ruins the ME franchise. =/


Yes, they definitely aren't going to change it publically... but that doesn't mean that they won't veer off in a new direction than they had otherwise planned, in the DLC. They have to save face.. I get that. That doesn't mean that they can't reinterpret/redialogue certain parts of the ending, in order for it to make sense (which they almost have to do)..

Let's give them a chance. See what they come out with. If it really is bad, or worse than the current ending, I'm sure the furor will rise again... but we should also give them public applause if they do a really good job as well. It doesn't really matter what they say, it's what they do that counts. We'll know how things stand in a few months.

#1627
steej

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What is it you people actually want?
You all grumbled, and they tried to fix it.

They can't possibly pay the thousands of dollars to re-hire all the voice talent, art directors, programmes and script writers just a new ten minute section in a game.
It's not at all feasible.

You should all feel luky they are even bothering with this!
i'm done.
<..unsubscribe..>

#1628
hmedon

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duno about you guys but i an't buying the next mass effect will not sure i wana buy anything ea anymore, the ending was that painfull f....... robots made me wana change my major xD

#1629
greggm2000

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steej wrote...

What is it you people actually want?
You all grumbled, and they tried to fix it.

They can't possibly pay the thousands of dollars to re-hire all the voice talent, art directors, programmes and script writers just a new ten minute section in a game.
It's not at all feasible.

You should all feel luky they are even bothering with this!
i'm done.
<..unsubscribe..>


Sure they can. It's not THAT expensive, not when they have already got employees hired and all the rest that goes along with that, in order to make more (paid) content.

We know it won't be a matter of just a few cutscenes. I'm hoping it will turn things around for them.... besides, if they bring out something that's lacklustre or even worse than what we have now, people aren't going to buy DLC... whereas if it is, they probably will. They have incentive to do it well.

#1630
Cannonarm758

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greggm2000 wrote...

steej wrote...

What is it you people actually want?
You all grumbled, and they tried to fix it.

They can't possibly pay the thousands of dollars to re-hire all the voice talent, art directors, programmes and script writers just a new ten minute section in a game.
It's not at all feasible.

You should all feel luky they are even bothering with this!
i'm done.
<..unsubscribe..>


Sure they can. It's not THAT expensive, not when they have already got employees hired and all the rest that goes along with that, in order to make more (paid) content.

We know it won't be a matter of just a few cutscenes. I'm hoping it will turn things around for them.... besides, if they bring out something that's lacklustre or even worse than what we have now, people aren't going to buy DLC... whereas if it is, they probably will. They have incentive to do it well.



Two thing about prioritizing cost.  

1) They are shuffling the DLC schedule to work on this.  That means that there is already talent available that was going to work on Paid DLC A, but now they are working on Free Ending DLC A.  So we don't know who needs to be re-hired vs just re-prioritized

2) It depends on who they have to hire and how much they have to spend per contract per person.  I personally believe the cost will be higher than thousands of dollars though.  For the sake of argument lets assume 100k away from fiscal projections. (Costs, delayed paid dlc...)

Average cost of dlc estimated at $10.  If  more than 10,000 people are upset enough that they would have bought DLC but won't because of the ending, than Bioware loses money.  I believe one poll has over 60k people part of retake.  Granted many of them will buy DLC even with the distaste but there will be others not part of it that won't buy it.

So if we factor in the 60k people not buying it, than in it is in Biowares best interest to make this work.  Plus they will release more than one dlc.  I personally won't buy any of the dlc at least not at $10, maybe on sale for like 2 or 3 bucks.

Also they sold 1.5 million copies from the last report I saw but shipped over 3.5 million copies from their press release I believe.  If stores can't clear out inventory that would add to costs.

Fixing the ending has to be their highest priority.  Even if you enjoyed it, there is a core sample of your base that will normally buy everything you put out and are going to hold back right now.  How big it really is, would be up for debate without a completely accurate set of statistics, but this is the kind of number crunching they have to factor in when deciding how much to invest in the free ending.

#1631
Dakota Strider

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Cannonarm758 wrote...

greggm2000 wrote...

steej wrote...

What is it you people actually want?
You all grumbled, and they tried to fix it.

They can't possibly pay the thousands of dollars to re-hire all the voice talent, art directors, programmes and script writers just a new ten minute section in a game.
It's not at all feasible.

You should all feel luky they are even bothering with this!
i'm done.
<..unsubscribe..>


Sure they can. It's not THAT expensive, not when they have already got employees hired and all the rest that goes along with that, in order to make more (paid) content.

We know it won't be a matter of just a few cutscenes. I'm hoping it will turn things around for them.... besides, if they bring out something that's lacklustre or even worse than what we have now, people aren't going to buy DLC... whereas if it is, they probably will. They have incentive to do it well.



Two thing about prioritizing cost.  

1) They are shuffling the DLC schedule to work on this.  That means that there is already talent available that was going to work on Paid DLC A, but now they are working on Free Ending DLC A.  So we don't know who needs to be re-hired vs just re-prioritized

2) It depends on who they have to hire and how much they have to spend per contract per person.  I personally believe the cost will be higher than thousands of dollars though.  For the sake of argument lets assume 100k away from fiscal projections. (Costs, delayed paid dlc...)

Average cost of dlc estimated at $10.  If  more than 10,000 people are upset enough that they would have bought DLC but won't because of the ending, than Bioware loses money.  I believe one poll has over 60k people part of retake.  Granted many of them will buy DLC even with the distaste but there will be others not part of it that won't buy it.

So if we factor in the 60k people not buying it, than in it is in Biowares best interest to make this work.  Plus they will release more than one dlc.  I personally won't buy any of the dlc at least not at $10, maybe on sale for like 2 or 3 bucks.

Also they sold 1.5 million copies from the last report I saw but shipped over 3.5 million copies from their press release I believe.  If stores can't clear out inventory that would add to costs.

Fixing the ending has to be their highest priority.  Even if you enjoyed it, there is a core sample of your base that will normally buy everything you put out and are going to hold back right now.  How big it really is, would be up for debate without a completely accurate set of statistics, but this is the kind of number crunching they have to factor in when deciding how much to invest in the free ending.


Very well put.  I would add, that I have a feeling that Bioware/EA has a very good idea how well their game is being received.  Due to the registration process with Origin, they can gather statistics on how many people are replaying the game, and how often.  Comparing that to statistics from previous games, and they have a very good idea what the interest level will be for DLC's.  If their info-harvesting is showing that far fewer people than normal are replaying ME3 for a 2nd or 3rd time, they have to know that any future DLC is in trouble, unless they recapture enthusiasm.

I would love to see that data, but I am pretty sure that is a closely guarded secret.

#1632
Emzamination

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Dakota Strider wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Kanner wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Don't  get me wrong, I'm very grateful to everyone who fought, all I'm saying is maybe you guys could ease up on the assault till we see what this extended cut actually delivers.It makes absoloutely no sense to call for a boycott of something that hasn't even manifested itself.This civil war seems to be turning into a witch hunt on bioware.:?


They have been *very* firm and insistant in their declarations about the ending.

It is 'art' and for their own integrity they can't be bullied into changing it.




Even if it's particularly terrible art that ruins the ME franchise. =/


Bioware has no choice but to work the middle ground with this compromise.You give in to the angry mob and your controlled by the angry mob.


I really hope that the way you just referenced the customers of Bioware, is not the way that we are being considered at Bioware HQ.  I know you are just making an analogy, but if this is how we are referred to here (by people that say they have sympathies for those of us that feel we did not get what we paid for),  I am afraid it is probably also the attitude of those that are trying to handle PR and decide what next to do with this franchise at Bioware/EA.

What ever happened to the code of "The customer is always right"?  This is still a business isn't it?  I am sorry, but I just cannot buy this "artistic integrity" argument, that suddenly has become prevalent, when a company decides that they do not want to spend any more money to polish off a product to make it meet its very own claims.  I have played computer games for well over 30 years, and other rpg's before that.  I have never heard them referred to as "art" before.  I have never heard those that created them, call themselves "artists" before.  They called themselves game devs, programmers, or gamers....and proudly.   If this suddenly has become art, and not games, then it may become time for myself, and many others to find new places to spend our entertainment dollars.  Because while "art" may be interesting to look at, I do not wish to spend my time or money on a bunch of paint that was thrown at a canvas, and then called art.

It may be too late for them to fix ME3 in any meaningful way.  I am not unrealistic in that regard.  However, the reason I believe in continuing this discussion, in a passionate manner, is that I really feel that Bioware needs to acknowledge that what they did was wrong (for whatever reason, rushed, budget, voice actors all got strep throat), and that they will redouble their efforts to return to the type of rpg's that built their franchise.  As long as Bioware keeps holding their line, that this was the artistic vision of ME3 all along (despite a trail of interviews prior to the release to the contrary), then I believe we cannot go silent.  Our silence is what they want, that is why they announced we would get some free DLC, even though in the same announcement they told us, it would not change anything, just clarify what was already clearly wrong to begin with.

My fix:  Not Indoctrination....War Injury.  Shepard takes a blow to the head, after landing on Earth.  (I would prefer before they linked up with Anderson, and the rest of the Normandy squad, but flexible on that).  He is an coma for a short period, but during that time, he dreams the sequence we all thought was the ending.  Since he has had previous dreams/nightmares, where the kid appeared, this links together nicely with what has happened before.  Shepard wakes up in a cold sweat, and realizes he has just had the worst nightmare of his life, and that the battle to retake earth is just beginning.   If Bioware were to make this their free DLC extended clarification, and announce following DLC will be the Battle for Earth, that would resemble what they promised in the first place, I think they can recover.

However, if they insist on keeping an ending that forces Shepard to accept one of three horrible choices, (as well as horrible circular logic), I think many of us will just give up on the company.


No, the customer is always right in theory but in reality the customer's satisfaction comes first until the customer ecomes unreasonable then you tell said customer to keep their money and get out your store but I digress.

The core of the argument over the ending at first was that many did not understand it and felt it made absoloutely no sense at all which is all well and dandy.Bioware offers to "CLARIFY" (keyword) the ending so the consumer understands it better which is a answer to the original argument which is great.The argument crosses over into unreasonable when you tell bioware don't bother explaining how god boy fits in, just get back in the kitchen and keep redoing that sandwich till you get it right.

I think its great they're not only compromising but doing it for free and besides Looking at it from the company's Point of view, if they give in completely now, whats to stop other uprisings and shake downs because people don't like the ending to Da3 or other future titles.You give the mob a egg and they'll be back to take the whole henhouse, Best for bioware to stand their "artistic" ground a little.:)

#1633
greggm2000

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Emzamination wrote...

No, the customer is always right in theory but in reality the customer's satisfaction comes first until the customer ecomes unreasonable then you tell said customer to keep their money and get out your store but I digress.

I think its great they're not only compromising but doing it for free and besides Looking at it from the company's Point of view, if they give in completely now, whats to stop other uprisings and shake downs because people don't like the ending to Da3 or other future titles.You give the mob a egg and they'll be back to take the whole henhouse, Best for bioware to stand their "artistic" ground a little.:)


Not only that, but that saying "the customer is always right" isn't even true... and why people put so much stock in an advertising slogan invented by a guy who ran retail stores a century ago, is beyond me.

I understand the company's POV. Bioware knows it's messed up, it knows it has to fix this, but at the same time it knows that it can't let itself be seen to roll over and capitulate totally... hence, the execs say some things to save face, and there's a tacit understanding of the realities of the situation among everyone, and Bioware gets to work on making the DLC. If they mess this chance up, they know they'll have twice the mess. They'll fix this. We know they have the talent, and the knowhow. They'll do it.

#1634
Kanner

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It depends what you mean by fix? Will they still have the eavesdropping planet scanning quests with the *awful* questlog? Is there still going to be a star-child?

There is an incredible amount of fixing that needs to be done to satisfy the people who are actually upset. Meanwhile, the clarification DLC is aimed at explaining to confused fans why Shepard blew up the entire galaxy and why Joker ran away from the battle. Y'know, some of the smaller yet still incredibly significant stuff they stumbled into while creating their speculation fueled sci-fi bible study session.

The clarification DLC is not a game fix. It does not replace the ending with something that is fun to play and appropriate for the mass effect universe - if it did, they in all likelyhood would have been hella happy to tell us that.

Ergo, it does not solve the basic problem. And it should not make anyone who is *upset* about the ending happy.

#1635
Dakota Strider

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greggm2000 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

No, the customer is always right in theory but in reality the customer's satisfaction comes first until the customer ecomes unreasonable then you tell said customer to keep their money and get out your store but I digress.

I think its great they're not only compromising but doing it for free and besides Looking at it from the company's Point of view, if they give in completely now, whats to stop other uprisings and shake downs because people don't like the ending to Da3 or other future titles.You give the mob a egg and they'll be back to take the whole henhouse, Best for bioware to stand their "artistic" ground a little.:)


Not only that, but that saying "the customer is always right" isn't even true... and why people put so much stock in an advertising slogan invented by a guy who ran retail stores a century ago, is beyond me.

I understand the company's POV. Bioware knows it's messed up, it knows it has to fix this, but at the same time it knows that it can't let itself be seen to roll over and capitulate totally... hence, the execs say some things to save face, and there's a tacit understanding of the realities of the situation among everyone, and Bioware gets to work on making the DLC. If they mess this chance up, they know they'll have twice the mess. They'll fix this. We know they have the talent, and the knowhow. They'll do it.



@Emzamination:  Your belief seems to be, that if Bioware was to admit it was wrong, and make the fixes that a very large amount of fans have been asking for (who are mostly asking that Bioware delivers on its pre-release promises), that this will just make things worse for them.  I would offer, that if Bioware just makes a token fix, that does not address any of issues regarding plot holes, as well as making choices in the game have some consequence, that is what would make the "mob" continue to rage at them.  The best way to keep the fans from complaining, is to give them what they want.  And in the future, when they announce a new game, and go out and hype it, all they have to do, is deliver on the promises that they make.  If they have doubts that they cannot deliver on a promise, then they should not make the promise in the first place.  That is all any reasonable person can ask for.

@greggm2000:  I certainly hope you are right.  But, I for one, find it hard to have faith that Bioware is going to make the fixes that we want, when in the limited amount that they talk to us, they are telling us, that they are not going to give us what we want, but are only going to clarify things which many of us feel do not need clarifying, they just need replacing.

And why cannot the company be seen to roll over and do what its fans/customers want?  I cannot think of one successful business model that runs on the concept that the customer is wrong, and the company knows what is best for them.  If somebody wants to make video games as art, just to share them with friends and family, thats fine.  But do not go out and pay for advertising, and make press releases about the product to make people think the product is actually something people want, and then when you get called on broken promises, do not cry "artistic integrity", and "we cannot cave in to people that want something different."

For those that say it is impossible, or way too costly for Bioware/EA to fix in a manner that would please most fans, I disagree.  The thing that they should do, that would get many of the fans back on their side, is if they were to apologize.  If they were to do that, people would be much more willing to give them time (and silence) to make the fixes that will restore our confidence in them.  And if they were to announce that the last 30 minutes of the game was just a bad dream Shepard had, after he had a wall crash onto his head, and that upcoming DLC would make a proper and epic ending, I think most of us would even be willing to pay for it.  But it is their attitude in which they refuse to take responsibility that probably has made this situation so much worse than it has to be.

#1636
Kanner

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... and there are a lot of long posts here that just say 'The only thing more expensive than fixing your mistakes is not fixing them.'

#1637
Larryboy_Dragon

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Looking forward to this. Cheers, Bioware.

#1638
Guest_The PLC_*

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Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Looking forward to this. Cheers, Bioware.

No! You can't! We need new endings! Because I say so! And my 60$ are way more important than your 60$! The endings needs to be chaaaaangeeed!!! For meeeee!

Nah, I agree.

#1639
Andromidius

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All the pro-enders seem to be resorting to childish strawmen. How sad.

If Bioware do this 'clarification', I can't see them recovering for a long while afterwards. Trust takes time to gather, and no time at all to waste.

#1640
OneWithTheAssassins

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Andromidius wrote...

All the pro-enders seem to be resorting to childish strawmen. How sad.

If Bioware do this 'clarification', I can't see them recovering for a long while afterwards. Trust takes time to gather, and no time at all to waste.

All the pro-ender's minds were so blown away and tramatized by how horrable the endings were that there minds turned into mush and they can no longer think with reason.

It's rather quite sad.

#1641
Farbautisonn

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Hahaha.... unstickied in the vain hope that come "summer" people will have forgot about this...

#1642
Cannonarm758

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Dakota Strider wrote...

Very well put.  I would add, that I have a feeling that Bioware/EA has a very good idea how well their game is being received.  Due to the registration process with Origin, they can gather statistics on how many people are replaying the game, and how often.  Comparing that to statistics from previous games, and they have a very good idea what the interest level will be for DLC's.  If their info-harvesting is showing that far fewer people than normal are replaying ME3 for a 2nd or 3rd time, they have to know that any future DLC is in trouble, unless they recapture enthusiasm.

I would love to see that data, but I am pretty sure that is a closely guarded secret.


Lets just hope they can divide out multiplayer from their totals.  I still play multiplayer (not as much once I finished the end)

#1643
Adanu

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OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

All the pro-enders seem to be resorting to childish strawmen. How sad.

If Bioware do this 'clarification', I can't see them recovering for a long while afterwards. Trust takes time to gather, and no time at all to waste.

All the pro-ender's minds were so blown away and tramatized by how horrable the endings were that there minds turned into mush and they can no longer think with reason.

It's rather quite sad.


ANd this is exactly why I have zer orespect for any of you idiots anymore.

**** you too.

#1644
ZajoE38

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I'd love to see release date. I think it will be august.

#1645
greggm2000

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Dakota Strider wrote...

And why cannot the company be seen to roll over and do what its fans/customers want?  I cannot think of one successful business model that runs on the concept that the customer is wrong, and the company knows what is best for them.


Apple. They're known for doing what they think is right, even if it contradicts what the customers seem to want, and they're very very successful at it.

Dakota Strider wrote...
If somebody wants to make video games as art, just to share them with friends and family, thats fine.  But do not go out and pay for advertising, and make press releases about the product to make people think the product is actually something people want, and then when you get called on broken promises, do not cry "artistic integrity", and "we cannot cave in to people that want something different."

For those that say it is impossible, or way too costly for Bioware/EA to fix in a manner that would please most fans, I disagree.  The thing that they should do, that would get many of the fans back on their side, is if they were to apologize.  If they were to do that, people would be much more willing to give them time (and silence) to make the fixes that will restore our confidence in them.  And if they were to announce that the last 30 minutes of the game was just a bad dream Shepard had, after he had a wall crash onto his head, and that upcoming DLC would make a proper and epic ending, I think most of us would even be willing to pay for it.  But it is their attitude in which they refuse to take responsibility that probably has made this situation so much worse than it has to be.


I think if Bioware had said something like: "We're sorry. We messed up in not providing you the closure you wanted, in a way that you found satisfying. We acknowledge that many of you have problems with the ending, and we're going to address that in a patch, free of charge for you, that will address your concerns.  Please give us a chance to make this right, and we'll do our best to make ME3 the best Mass Effect ever"

Something like that, while not admitting anything about the ending, while at the same time being apologetic but not submissive, would have gone a long way. It's too late for that now, of course, but at least one can hope that Bioware has learnt something from this mess, and in a few years when ME4 is out, all this will be a distant memory.

You're right, accepting responsibility and making an effort to fix it, even if the story is on their terms, is all most of us want.

#1646
ScorpioCurse

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Uwe Boll also "strongly believes in the artistic vision" of his "films", but no matter how hard he would to try "clarify" them, they still suck.

#1647
Guest_The PLC_*

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ScorpioCurse wrote...

Uwe Boll also "strongly believes in the artistic vision" of his "films", but no matter how hard he would to try "clarify" them, they still suck.

That's just your opinion.

#1648
earthonline

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 there are some more details on the announcement from PAX East:
PAX East 2012 Bioware and Mass Effect 3 Panel Part 2: Extended Cut DLC

#1649
Emzamination

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earthonline wrote...

 there are some more details on the announcement from PAX East:
PAX East 2012 Bioware and Mass Effect 3 Panel Part 2: Extended Cut DLC


Bioware is beast mode ^_^.