3214 réponses à ce sujet

[Geirahod]

Perhaps there's someone in the writing team that told Casey and Mac: "We will lose fans if you go on with this idea" and then "I told you this was going to end bad".
I would like to know if there was someone brave in the team to stand up against the crappy endings....

Because I really doubt that anyone sane and with a decent amount of knowledge of the lore could have supported the endings idea.

[Draconis6666]

The problem with the "wait and see" approach many people expect everyone to take, is that If this is really just PR bull**** like most people expect it is that's exactly what they want. They want three more months of people being quiet and not causing an outrage so they can sell the game to more people. Its an attempt to put off negative press so they can make more money.

The fact that they even used their' Artistic Integrity line again inside the press release, more or less proves its just PR nonsense. The fact that any company could continue to spout artistic integrity on a game that uses stock images and five minute photoshop jobs just proves they have none to begin with. As a game developer myself, I'm ashamed to work in the same industry as these people, more and more the industry is reflecting this kind of thinking and its leading to nothing but crappy and lazy games for the purpose of greed. These people are so blinded by their own imagined greatness that they can't even admit that there are problems with their ending, or that people don't like the ending as a whole. So instead they have convinced themselves that people simply dont get it and explaining it will fix the problem.

There is nothing artistic about the ending, its simply bad writing. Its a badly done M night Shamalayn twist ending with even less foreshadowing than some of his worst examples of twists with no foreshadowing can ever claim to have. If your going to spout support of artistic vison of the ending, the only way to do so is to trash the artistic vision of the rest of the series it destroys. Its not supporting the artistic vision of the team who developed the series, its supporting the vision of the person responsible for the ending, who gets paid more than the rest of them at the expense of the other peoples visions. They aren't promoting artistic vision, they are using artistic vision as a crutch to support lazy art and bad art in the attempt to make more money for less work. You can't support the artistic integrity of something that has no integrity of art.

If they stood by artistic integrity they wouldn't need an extended cut, the extended cut has nothing to do with artistic integrity its a blatant PR way of saying "screw you here's something for free shut up so we can keep selling our game to people". Clarifying and closure will not solve this, simply because it ignores many of the key points, again its just selective PR bullcrap to try and appease people. It ignores most of the total lies consumers were fed about the product even well after the game was gold and being put on discs, it is in fact more insulting that it is helpful. It is basically a way of saying "your too dumb to understand, here we will explain it and give you some text epilogues to shut you up". Its more insulting than had they left it as is.

[t003]

 Is there atleast a way to save the relays? A way to save synthethitcs/tech if you choose destroy?

[Ronnocloki]

Yeah I'm sorry but given the phrasing in this announcement I'm not optimistic about this dlc.

[Phydeaux314]

Well, I took a step back after the initial announcement yesterday, wasn't feeling up to thinking about this. Coming back... well, I wouldn't say that I'm happy but my stomach doesn't feel like the bottom's dropped out of it any more.

[The Divine Avenger]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I think it's time to abandon BioWare. I'll hang on the forums, and try the DLC, yeah. But somehow, I really don't think clarification fixes the issue of the Starchild. I don't think BioWare's future is bright, and I certainly don't trust them anymore.

I will actively disavow any sort of monetary support for BioWare if these 'clarifications' prove insufficient. We asked for new endings that made sense. We did not get that. Hold the line.

This

i don't understand how they think they can "Clarify" STARCHILD I meen come on he's the biggest plot hole of the whole ending.

he's not only cheapend the reapers by making them out to be mindless puppets of some AI STARCHILD with a god complex. He cheapens Shepards character & makes everything we've done up untill now meaningless, not only Shepards actions but the Prothians actions also. Lets go through some of the things that the STARCHILD destroys with his presance.

1, As I've said before what was the point of the whole conversation on Vermire with a certain reaper if he was simply a puppet of STARCHILD. he's cheapend a very mysterious enemy by making them out to be nothing but is own version of a damb action figure that he use's for his twisted game's of war.
 
"you touch my mine fumbbling in ignorance incapable of understanding"  - Sovereign - Mass Effect

Well funny that my friend I think I understand JUST FINE, your a synthetic action figure created by "starchild" as his "SOLUTION" to the "PROBLEM" of organic life, Which leads us to yat another issue.

2,His circuler logic does not make sence, how the hell does he work out that organic life will be wiped out by synthetics that they create. If this were true then wouldn't it have made more sence for him to create the reapers to fight against the synthetics that threatend the balance of life. If this is indeed the reason for the creation of the reapers then why are they destroying all advanced organic life, with him being on the cidadel he would have been aware of the BANN on reasurch into AI technolegy. If this is the reason for the reapers existance it would have made more sence for them to only intervien when organic life went too far & was threatend by something it made.

"The created will always rebel against the creators" - Starchild - Mass Effect 3

If that's true my little psycopath then why the f*** haven't the reapers rebeled against you, I mean you are effectivly using them as slaves just like the Quarians did with the Geth. This will lead to issue no3.

3, If indeed organic life will be whiped out my synthetics they create then explain to me why in the 300 years since the Geths creation they never ventured beyond the vail. It was only when Sovereign approached the Geth with his offer that they discided to join him in his assult on organic life.

"Geth build are own future, the Heratics wanted the old machine to give them a future" - Legion - Mass Effect 2

Leigion proved that Synthetic life is just as diverse as organic in the way thay their way of thinking evolves, The Geth were torn apart by a difference of opinion. Those that thought that they should attempt to live in pease with organics & those that thought that they should go to war. Just like there reators the Quarrians, Tali's Trial on no2 was all over whether or not they should go to war with the Geth, with some wanting peace others war & then others wanting to controle them.

4, Star Child has effectivly cheapend Shepards Character & warped his/her personality with a bunch of retarded choices. The so called "Paagon" blue choice is a load of bulls***, how the hell do you think that giving into the Illusive man is a good thing. As for synthasis ending that is just a stupid option that contradicts the very basics of the Mass Effect story line. As for the destroy ending this one too does not make sence, although it is the only one that has any sence to it & is the least contradictory of the character & stroy.

"Paragon Choice" - The so called paragon choice is an evil choice not a good one, how the hell do you make out trading one master for another a good thing. Star child has just addmited to enslaving the reapers & is now giving you the option of becoming there new master how the hell is that a good thing. Shepards character if you chose the way of the Paragon was one that valued FREEDOM. Not long before the London mission you brokered peace between the Quarians & the Geth, allowing them to coexist on the same planet. That was a choice made on paragon Shepards value of FREEDOM, paragon Shepard understands that every life regardless of being synthetic or organic has the right to choose for themselfs. Although the choice made onboard the Heratic ship to rewrite the geth heratics some may say is in violation of this underlining fact that Paragon Shepard values freedom. This I must point out Leigion was in conflict with himself as to wether or not to destroy them, if you quized him about it he said 49% favour destruction 51% favour rewrite. Paragon Shepard argured that isn't rewriting them taking away thair right to choose for themselfs, this emphasising paragon Shepards value of FREEDOM. The fact that paragon Shepard made the choice to rewrite them rather than destroy them is based off the fact that Leigion was in conflict over it & that he'd come to the conclustion of 51% in favour of rewrite.
Shepards choice to release the Rackni queen on Noveria was also based off of Shepards value of freedom, he/she seen that the queen understood the reason behind why her people were wiped out. Shepard understood that every life has the right to choose for themselfs & gave the queen the chance to make amends for the her people. So I argue that this choice is not one that paragon Shepard would make as it go's against everything that paragon Shepard believes in & stands for.

"We Fight or We Die" - Paragon Shepard - at the begining of Mass Effect 3

"Neutral Choice" - This option like the so called paragon option is an evil choice, considering in Mass Effect 3 we had the option of choosing a neutral choice in conversations taken away from us this choice go's against both Paragon & Renagade Shepards basic character.Some believe this to be the best out of the three choices, they are wrong it is basicly the worst of the three as it is a sly way of saying the reapers win. Paragon Shepard said to the commitee at the start of the game "We fight or we Die" so then how do you come to the conclusion that this is a choice that paragon Shepard would make. considering that Renargade Shepard's basic character is victory at any cost, this choice also violates renergade Shepard character. This choice give's you the option of fusing synthetic & organic life together, which is basicly saying that the reapers win. I say this because if you think back to no 2 we fought a human reaper in the collecter base & the collecters had been kidnaping entire collonys of humans to make this reaper. They were using their genetic code in the creation of this new reaper proving that the reapers are already a combination of synthetic & organic life. So by choosing this option you have effectivly handed victory to the reapers by turning not only galactic civilisation into reapers but all life that has yet to evolve to the level of all involved in citadel community. This option violates paragon Shepard's basic value of freedom & renargde Shepard's victory at any cost nature, so I say how is this a good ending. It also made the sacrifice of many of your formar crew meaningless. Leigions sacrifice for the geth to be free & to have a life of their own being one of the many examples, so I say again how is this a good choice.

"Renergade Choice" - This although the least contradictory is also a badly thought of ending as it is also in violation of much that has happened thus far. The creation of the crucible was based off of a prothian skimatic that was found in the archive on Mars, yet this ending effectivly sc***'s over all advanced civilizations in the galaxy. It effectively says that you can only destroy the reapers by destroying all synthetic life & depending on how you have played till now also destroys all advanced tech such as FTL traval. It is clear from your interaction with Vigil on Ilos & your expiriance during the From Ashes DLC that the prothians relyed heavyly on VI & AI tech. So how does it make sence to disign a weapon that will effectivly kill off what is left of their speices just to achieve victory against the reapers. Although this may fit into renergade Shepards victory at any cost character, at the same time does not because it basicly ensures that there will be no life after this choice. With  the galactic fleet stranded in the Sol system after this choice has been made the massivly devistated Earth will NOT have the reasorces to support it's own population let alone the population of the fleet. Turians & Quarians can not eat human food so they will have to rely on whatever resorces they brought with them. Considering that the Quarians have just recently retaken their homeworld much of the reasorces they had would have been trancfered to the planet in an attempt to rebuild their way of life. So that said then if FTL traval was not destroyed by this choice then they will not have the resorces to make it home so they are affectively s****ed. The Turians also will have a great deal of problems returning to their home, although they do not have to go as far as the Quarians they will still have a long journey ahead which they likely will not be able to make. I have heard arguments that they can just stop off at a colony to get supplys but this is NOT the case, many of the colonys have either been evacuated of devistated by the reaper attacks so the chances of finding an active colony with enough resorces to spare is slim at best. Those of the races that could servive in the human systam of Sol like the humans are also sc***ed, as without reasorces their is no chance of rebuilding. It has already been said that many of the reasorces where used in the creation of the crucible. For Earth to rebuild it would need to send ships out to scan planets for resources, with no mass relays this search could take decades. Time that the people of Earth & the fleet do not have, even if they were able to find the resources by the time they found them, mined them & returned with them a large portion of the population would have died off either through war or starvation. It is human nature to fight for survival so lack of resources would effectivly trigger a civl war on earth, so while thouse people were off trying to find resoures the human race would be killing eachother. Even if this did not happen, by the time the ships that were sent to gather resources returned the need for said resources would have increased ten fould. This choice effectivly ensures that the fleet you gathered was for nothing as you have basicly doomed them all to death.

All three choices have had such an extreame lack of thought put into them it is unreal & considering that these choices came from the mouth of a genocidel AI they are even more unbelieveabl. All AI's do it THINK so how are these the only three outcomes that it can come up with, the very existance of the "STARCHILD" does not make sence. The only way I will be able to except the existance of his annoying & contradictory character is by way of the IT without that there is no way to make his existance viable.

I except & respect the fact that you have a right to your "Artistic Integrity" but I argue that this is not artistic in anyway considering the quallity of the game up untill the London mission.

[Wraithful]

If the ending is anything other than the indoctrination theory or something similiar then I will have no further interest in Mass Effect. I've had a fantastic time playing the hell out of this series but I do not see the point if it was building to the current ending. You can clarify all you want but 'starchild' for me is in the same category as 'it was all a dream' and I had thought the genre was growing out of that sort of thing (whilst the indoctrination theory would be essentially this, it would also provide an escape for the writers to write themselves out of this mess (a reset for the last 10mins)).

[2484Stryker]

Just read the FAQ. Disappointing.

You can't clarify something that is broken and expect it to be fixed.

[Mortifus7]

I love Mass Effect and bioware's titles, but if this DLC isn't EVERYTHING I hope and dream it is, fixing the many, many holes and nonsensical ending (Synthetics killing Organics so Organics can survive, Joker taking off mid-battle, starchild, yadda yadda) I will simply not be purchasing anymore bioware products, or anything EA has had a direct hand in. Only an idiot sticks his hand into the fire twice. That being said, I have faith in the developers ability to give this story an end that is logical, coherent and simply what this series deserves.

To quote W.B. Yeats:
"....I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams."

[Phaedros]

Way too little way too late..

Damage is done.  

[Uriko128]

Since I am one of the presumably few people that like the ending, here I go.

[quote]Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Mass Effect: In with a Bang out with a Whimper

Why the upcoming DLC cant’ fix the ending to Mass Effect 3. 

There are a lot of opinions and thoughts about the ending of Mass Effect 3. The announcement this morning may fill some with hope, but not me. Instead I’m filled with sadness and dread at the realization that BioWare’s artistic vision is for everyone to die at the end and to leave behind a Mass Effect universe in which the galaxy would have been better off if Shepard had let Saren succeed in ME1.  [/quote] 

Yes, Shep dies or their friends die. Get over it. You fought all u could but it was not enough to make everyone happy. What did you expect? The adventure was hard from the begining and probabilities of succes very low. Is this a valid argument to say the ending is bad? Or is just something that says the masses that like a happy ending will hate the ending?

[quote] The Ending Sucks But we Already Knew That

First, there is a lot of talk about how the ending to Mass Effect 3 sucks. It does, you’ll get no arguments from me. It’s full of plot holes, contradictions, it ends abruptly and paints your choices in a confusing light. It doesn’t have the same feel that the rest of the series has. Nothing about it is familiar and it all feels “off” and unfamiliar. Not only does it contradict the nature of the series itself, but it goes against statements made by Casey Hudson himself in interviews. (You know, about the whole A,B, and C thing not being what they were going for.) The worst part is that all your choices essentially all have the same results. I’ll say that I’ve got no clue why a low EMS results in only the destroy ending being available or why the destroy ending is the only one that allows Shepard to wake up in the rubble in London after everything goes to hell. 

Implications………….unpleasant. [/quote] 

It seems the DLC will try to adress those so-called plotholes. So I won't answer this one.


[quote] The Final Mission Sucks and the DLC isn’t Addressing That

But what I rarely see is talk about how the final mission, specifically Priority: Earth sucks so bad. Up until then the game is easily the best of the three in my opinion. Not only graphically or game play wise, but in the way missions and the story are handled. Plotlines from earlier installments are brought to clean and satisfying resolution. The whole game up until the Priority: Earth mission is actually a well crafted masterpiece. Excellent set pieces and backdrops, a sense of urgency, family, and team are all fostered here. I loved seeing all my favorite characters again and the interactions with them are by far the richest and most fulfilling in the whole series. 

Before you can understand why the final act sucks so bad you have to understand why the first games had epic conclusions which were not only satisfying, but had you at the edge of your seat the entire time. 

In the original Mass Effect, one of my favorite parts of the game is going outside the Citadel tower and making my way to the council chambers with Sovereign in the background with Geth and Krogan trying to stop me. You come face to ugly face with Saren and learn that he’s a tragic figure and not necessarily the evil man you believed him to be earlier. He shoots himself if your paragon or renegade score is high enough, and it seems like it will be the end of him. But you don’t want to ignore the body, you want to make sure it’s not a trick. And of course it doesn’t and you have to fight what Saren has truly become. A tool of Sovereign. Nothing more, nothing less. Once he’s defeated the feedback causes Sovereign to lose control of his shields, then the order is given and the combined Alliance and Citadel fleets destroy the Reaper sending pieces of it all over. The music, the dialog, the battle, the cinematics are all well done here. From Ilos on the game is all about your goals and the story. Some of the best looking and most well thought out segments of the game are in the final act. 

In Mass Effect 2 one of my favorite parts of the game is assaulting the Collector base and choosing who leads the second team, who goes into the vents, and literally who will live and die. The long walk music playing in the background really adds ambience to it. I liked fighting within the biotic barrier and cutting down bad guys. While the Reaper battle itself could have been done differently and a whole lot better, all the cinematics and choices in the final act are great. 

In Mass Effect 3 I dread everything after the assault on the Illusive Man's base. The Priority Earth mission just sucks on so many levels.


The Good Bye Sequence

You get to Earth and things fall apart. In fact almost everything after the attack on the Cerberus base is pretty much terrible. We get a nice fulfilling and interesting good bye to Liara, especially if you romanced her. Then you proceed and say good bye to the rest of the survivors of your teams from 1 and 2. These are a bit of a mixed bag. I found many compelling and moving, with some of them feeling a little forced and flat. I think my fondness for some characters makes some more bittersweet than others. All of them are generally pretty good but the entire sequence seems out of place. There is this calm base in the worst area of fighting in which you’ve got time to do all of this? Seems tacked on at the last minute. Though it sets a tone in which Shepard seems to lose hope. The dialog delivered lacks a certain fire after that. Shepard’s own commentary contradict his or her nature from the first two games and even the third up until Thessia. 

Shepard almost seems prepared to fail. I think they were going for an effect in which you can finally see the events of all three games taking their toll on the Galaxy’s greatest hero and soldier. Depending on how you look at it, this is either well done or completely out of character. This segment is essentially the calm before the storm. 
And here is the point where the train really leaves the tracks. It happens well before the games controversial and lackluster ending. 
Problematic……………….

Who Needs Rails?

You gather with all your allies one last time and head to where Anderson is planning the final assault to drive the Reapers back and deliver the Crucibal. I had this silly expectation that they’d at least give us what Mass Effect 2 did and outline objectives in which we’d decide which team members did the deeds. Choosing correctly would lead to success, and choosing poorly would lead to character deaths at the very least. I was sure that we’d probably lose some no matter what being the final game and experiencing so much loss already. While it was just an action set piece, we still had an RPG element to it. In that regard Mass Effect 2 triumphed over the first game. 

But sadly, in Mass Effect 3 none of that happened. We had one objective, and Shepard just picked two people to go with him or her and that’s it. All you do is fight wave, after wave, after wave of frustrating enemies. The same five to be exact. Marauders, cannibals, husks, banshees, and brutes. No where in this mess did we see Krogan protecting our flank, or Asari bombing the enemy positions. We saw no Salarian commandos blowing up Reaper assets in the background. We don’t even see the Mass Effect Allstar team which showed up to help us in our final push do anything. They fade away into the background like common soldiers. Hardly fitting or satisfying. You are told you have one objective. Reach the conduit. A Reaper destroyer comes into sour that plan. The only hope? Thanix missiles. OK, but Shepard once again has to be the one to do this. So you set out to reach the missiles and you fight the endless horde to do it. 

And it is endless. In fact once you are given the go to launch, just run to the truck and do it. Ignore all the enemies at that point. They’ll disappear once you’ve launched the missiles. Yeah, that’s right. You don’t have to wait for a break in the fighting because you won’t get one. 

The run to the conduit itself is almost identical to the one in Mass Effect 1, except that we don’t do it in a Mako and we have Harbinger or another Reaper shooting at us. You run in only to get shot anyway before reaching your final objective. Now again I don’t want to argue for indoctrination theory at this point. I’ll just say that the imagery gets confusing, things feel off and out of place, and everything is abrupt and just out of character for the universe. Shepard in no way seems to question the validity of what the proclaimed Reaper creator says. That last part is important. So far Shepard has never accepted anything anyone has said and went his or her own way knowing what the goal was all along and never losing sight of that objective. To do what needs to be done. Sometimes via compromised morals or an ends justifies the means stance, depending on your choices, but always in the pursuit of a noble goal that is abandoned in the final minutes. [/quote]
 
I think the subjective tastes of each are not the correct way to adress this issue. So ok, u liked some moments of ME and ME2 and disliked some others in ME3. I can't answer you because that's your opinion. Neither can Bioware.


[quote]The DLC Won’t Likely Address the Citadel Content

Other plot holes aside, I’m uncertain how any of the endings themselves could be changed or have added context based on new cinematics. The choices still suck and are presented in a haphazard and akward way with no context really being given, no questions being asked, and nothing profound happening. So without interrupting before Shepard waking up and explaining how Anderson and the Illusive Man ended up there, we won’t get clarity on this at all. Maybe after the choice is made, but the choices are still presented in an amateur hour kind of way. Far sub-par to the way every other choice has been presented to us before. 

This is not to say that every decision in Mass Effect can be made the first play through with an idea of what the consequences will be. I wasn’t sure what the right call to make with the Geth heretics or the with Keji’s greybox. But these choices are presented with context that is easy to follow and more importantly, allow some conjecture on your part which helps you to make a good decision. When I was told my three choices by the Catalyst and it’s some 14 lines of dialog, I really wanted to go back and have it repeat everything because I wasn’t sure I heard everything. Again it’s a huge decision but there is no context as Shepard can’t really ask any questions. [/quote]

Again:  It seems the DLC will try to adress those so-called plotholes. Why don't u wait and see if they satisfy you? Also, I don't think Bioware will explain something like: hey how did the illusive man and Anderson got there before me!!?? Come on, they just got there, maybe not for the same entrance as you or whatever. Are you really complaining about this?


[quote]So the Reapers aren’t Sentient?

One point I fail to see get addressed in forum posts and articles is the fact that this Catalyst AI Starchild thing contradicts the idea that the Reapers are sentient on their own. Sovereign and Harbinger, as well as the unknown Reaper on Rannoch are all clearly sentient. Yet this AI Catalyst supposedly created them? How will the Crucibal force them to do anything? In just a few lines of dialog the conversations with Sovereign and Harbinger become meaningless. It diminishes the Reaper threat by making them into machines which follow the machinations of this other being we know nothing about. We just met him in the last 10 minutes.[/quote]

The reapers are sentient, and the Catalist created them. I don't think he controls them, rather they agree with him. Also they could have some kind of consensus like geth, but led by the starchild. Who knows? I'm happy the reapers are still kind of mysterious even after starchild appearance.

[quote] DLC Won’t Address Shepard’s Complete Trust in the Catalyst

And if it created Reapers, you can trust him. I won’t put complete faith in someone trying to sell me a car, Shepard is distrustful of the Illusive Man who brought him/her back from the dead but this master of the Reapers is totally trust worthy. The fate of the galaxy and trillions of sentient lives are at stake and there is no reason to be sure and ask questions before you do anything. [/quote] 

So what should Sheppard do? Saying: no no you lie!!! While he is dying of hemorrhage? The catalist was not a weapon, the reapers won. The only thing Sheppard could do, was taking advantage of the catalist choices or just stand there and die.


[quote] Not only does Shepard fail to ask questions here for clarification, but Shepard really does take everything presented at face value. The catalyst AI starchild thing tells Shepard that his or her choice will destroy the mass relays. Since Shepard already blew up one, you’d think that would be a point of concern and discussion given what happened the last time. (I would imagine the Batarian legal suit would have still been pending were it not for being wiped out by the Reapers.) Shepard should have taken a lesson from James T. Kirk who never feared to ask anyone anything he wanted an answer for. Important questions which address poor or logically fallible arguments. Questions like; “What does God need with a starship?”  

Often times Shepard hasn’t liked the paths laid out for him or her by others and takes new direction. This was evidenced in all three games a lot of times. Yet this attitude is suspiciously absent in the final moments of the game. Most people would have said on Manae that there was no way to get the Krogan to help the Turians but Shepard never said that. When the new Primarch asked, Shepard made it happen. The catalyst would have you believe that these three ridiculous choices are the only options you have. Why should Shepard accept that?
The Catalyst is part of the Crucibal and this is the same being who supposedly made Reapers to harvest organics every 50,000 years. Yeah, let’s go with what he says.  [/quote]

Yes, that would be intelligent. To start a little chat with the catalist while everyone, including u, are dying. Do u think it would be better if they had some tea, too? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]  
 
[quote]  The Endings are Screwed up Before the Cinematics really Start and BioWare isn’t Addressing That

We all know the part about the Mass Relays blowing up whole star systems, stranding races in places without enough resources to survive and all that. But each ending has its own issues and its own added consequences. I will endeavor to deal with them individually and from the perspective of how the choice is presented and some of the differences vs. the others. 

Control

In the control ending we are led to believe that apparently the Crucibal doesn’t have a real switch and Shepard needs to complete a circuit or something rather than get what he or she needs from the Presidium Commons market or raid the Keeper’s tool box for something which could be used as a switch. So Shepard has to grab these two glowing rods and whilst being vaporized think happy thoughts and wish the Reapers away. 
The biggest issue I have with this is that the Reapers aren’t sentient or are really retarded for not doing something about a back door command signal. Essentially in 50,000+ years no one patched out this critical security flaw? And again if they were truly sentient and were able to rebel against their creators, why are they listening to this Catalyst, and again why does this device compel them to do anything? I also find it odd that the Catalyst endorses this and that Shepard’s eyes look exactly like the Illusive Man’s in the final moments just before disintegration. I’m not advocating indoctrination, but the symbolism of this can’t be ignored. We may lack context, but it’s something you should think about. Something BioWare needs to address.  Interestingly enough, the Citadel is also not destroyed in this ending as I recall. I don’t know what that means. I can only speculate.  [/quote] 

Well, the crucible can somehow control the reapers. However, Sheppard is the first to do it, as the catalist say: "I see other options now". And present those three to Sheppard. So yes, the catalist + sheppard's will are a tool to control the reapers. Do u really need more explanation? Some quantic physics or something? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]


[quote] 
Synthesis

I’ve often heard of this being referred to as the good ending or the best ending. In truth this is nothing of the kind. It’s essentially the ending to Star Trek the Motion Picture, but more convoluted. This isn’t a movie you really want your story to emulate. Fan fiction and non-cannon fiction basically credits this as the rise of the Borg race, despite being somewhat unlikely based on statements made in the series. This choice bugs me because it’s already what the Reapers do anyway. The catalyst confirms that’s how organics live on. As Reapers. This also forces Shepard to go back on what is said a minute earlier. “We’ll keep our form thanks.” Or something to that effect. This is a unilateral decision in which organic and inorganic fusion should be forced on all beings in the galaxy. As another person pointed out I think in one of the Youtube videos, the solution to diversity is mediocrity? Really? I can’t believe anyone supports this ending. It’s the worst. 

Shepard also never asks what this will do to his or her companions and if anyone’s identity will remain intact. Could you imagine waking up and all of the sudden seeing bioluminescent circuitry all over your body. I’d probably freak out and kill myself. Especially if everyone I saw around me looked the same. So Shepard is going to make a unilateral call for the whole galaxy with no context and no questions? Please. At least My Shepard’s don’t do this. And again Shep’s eyes look like the Illusive Man’s just prior to being disintegrated.  

[/quote]

I think u have misunderstood the point of the catalist here. He is concerned about the organics/synthetics war. The point to offer a synthesis ending is this: If there are not two sides to make war, there's no war. 

[quote] Destroy

This is probably the least offensive ending and the most difficult to understand in some ways. The Starchild presents this ending as “oh by the way, you can destroy us if you want, but you are partly synthetic, so don’t do that.” The Starchild also adds that the Geth and EDI will be destroyed with this choice. Now this is the kind of choice that Shepard is used to making. Shepard sacrificed Batarian colonists to delay a Reaper invasion. It would also keep the Quarians, Salarians, Krogan, Asari, Hanar, Drell, Humans, and anyone else I’m missing alive. While Shepard may not like these types of decisions, I think this is the easiest one to take and the most sensible. It’s the only decision that would ensure that the Reaper menace would stay gone. 

But there is a catch. If the EMS score is high enough Shepard wakes up gasping for air in a pile of rubble clearly in London. This tells you that Shepard didn’t die, and that everything above was a lie. Indoctrination theory or not, this tells you that the ending here can’t be taken at face value. In fact it brings into question all of them. Also in this ending Shepard’s eyes do not change. It is the only one where they don’t.  [/quote] 

Far from it, the destroy ending is the worst, unless you take best for "sheppard can survive in this one". Synthesis ending or control ending finish the reaper menace, but destroy ending does not, as the catalist say: someday organics will create synthetics again, and the cycle will begin again.

Anyway, do you have any proof that Sheppard is on London when gasping air?


For the view-points and the message to EA/Bioware, I won't answer since I consider the stuff to subjective and personal, so I respect it.


[quote]TheCinC wrote...

I have at least seven reasons why I am disapponted, ordered as a response to the official announcement...

Reason number1: the condescending tone in the announcement:

"Since launch, we have had time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans [...]"

Are only the most passionate fans turned off by this ending? Judging by the numbers here on this forum alone, I don't think so.[/quote]

That's because the only people who would come to a forum to speak of the ending is the people that don't like it. I liked the ending, but no way I had the intention to come and say: wow, the ending was great. I only do it because there's people atacking the ending which I like. Usually users will come to a forum to complain, not to say things are great.

[quote] Reason number 2: the use of 'artistic vision' to defend an Deus ex Machina ending that doesn't fit with the three games we've played and doesn't fit with the promises made to us before release:

The ending isn't anything like what was promised, so it can't be true that this was the 'artistic vision' of the writers all along. Even if it is, then  that vision is irrelevant, because it isn't what we were promised. But I highly doubt the writers who gave us all those choices spread over  three games would leave us with a choice between red, green and blue.
[/quote] 

That there's a Deus Ex on ME3, can be argued. To me, there isn't. However, I admit Bioware didn't make an ending secuence which showed the importance of your actions, even if they promised so. But ME3 is the end of the saga, and the story of the game itself vary quite much depending of your present and past actions. I'm with u in the sense that the little (but important) changes of the final video sequence are far from satisfactory.

[quote]Reason number 3: we don't want explanations or answers regarding the current ending:

The current ending does not need to be explained to us, like we were  children unable to grasp what we've seen. We want Shepard to either die  in the field because we made a mistake, or dust him/herself off and get  back into the fight and keep fighting until the bitter end. That way we  can go back and try again, making different choices, buy and download DLC to give us new characters, weapons, equipment, allies, you name it.
[/quote] 

So basicly you can't accept there's something in the game (the fate of Sheppard) that isn't entirely under your control. Well, the ending is quite linear since you can scape the options of the godchild. It is a good thing u find that frustrating, I'm sure Sheppard also does.

[quote]Reason number 4: we don't want "additional cinematics and epilogue scenes" because we want to be able to make real choices and decide through those choices how Shepard's story ends.

The three choices we get are simply not choices Shepard could live with.

1) Kill all synthetic beings, including the Geth (in many cases now our allies, which would mean betraying them and would make Legion's sacrifice pointless) and Edi (now a crewmember and love interest of another  crewmember, Joker) despite all the evidence that quite possibly synthetic and biological beings -can- live together. Not an option, especially not for a Paragon, possibly not even for a Renegade as it would mean genocide.

2) Take control of the Reapers, not knowing for a fact that this could work, risking being overwhelmed and not
accomplishing anything but help the Reapers getting rid of Shepard. But even if Shepard remains in control, then what? Take away the freedom of choice for an entire race, no matter how heinous their crimes? Enforce peace throughout the Galaxy by using the Reapers as the ultimate 'big stick'? Sending the Reapers into the nearest star? It doesn't seem like much of a solution to me, much more like a dangerous gamble at best.

3) Fuse all organic and synthentic life, without anyone else having a say in this matter. Yeah, that seems like a nice thing to do to people, nevermind the implications of 'space magic' that really come with that.

In all cases, you furthermore: a) unquestionably accept the premise of the Star Child and of everything he is telling you and  condemn all races to being stranded where they are by blowing up the mass relays. Not every system is going to recover from that in time, no matter how that is solved in the end, millions if not billions will die.

Of course, if the three choices are a fakeout and Shepard really dies or becomes indoctrinated, then all of this is moot anyway.
[/quote] 

You are asuming there's no way for the army to go back. Maybe there isn't. But those soldiers knew they could die or even worse. The three choices of Sheppard are the only way to stop the reapers, if you are frustrated because there isn't another choice, you could also be frustrated because u couldn't save Saren and recruit him on your team, or because you had to kill the Illusive Man in the end (and I wanted him to live! I like him!).

[quote] Reason number 5: it feels like something to keep us quiet:

"Currently the Extended Cut DLC is planned for this summer, no specific date has been announced at this point."

Although I have to admit, getting new content on short notice would probably be far worse, as it would then be of very low quality due to the time constraints, the combination of the statements made regarding the shape of new content and the long lead time, combines to give us something which does not deliver on earlier promises, does not address our concern and may simply be intended to shut us up. Maybe they hope that with this, enough of us will quiet down, at least until summer.
[/quote] 

And then what? When they deliver you some crap on summer you will shout again. Seriously, I doubt they will give u an unsatisfying DLC. But of course, if you want the ending CHANGED rather than explained or extended, then I'm sure u will achieve nothing.

[quote] Reason number 6: their stated goal is not to deliver on what we have been promised and on what we want:

"The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game, rather to offer fans additional context and  answers to the end of Commander Shepard’s story."

So they clearly state there will not be even a single additional ending to the game, they will just take what we have
and provide some more clarity. So, we can't even hope that they will, in the end, deliver on their promises.
[/quote]

Well they have said the conclusion will be more personalized, so I supose they are going to make sure u understand your personal choices did matter. 

[quote] Reason number 7: I paid for this game based on the promises which were made and the quality of ME1 and ME2

I paid full price for a Collector's Edition of ME3, which I preordered. I then expected, at minimum, a full fledged game, with an ending that a) makes sense and  ties up any loose ends. In that respect, ME3 did not deliver. Furthermore, we were promised a whole lot more and EA/Bioware did not deliver on those promises. For an overview of some of the promises made, see here.
[/quote] 

I agree with you in this. Bioware promised too much and now we could call them liers. However the ending makes sense to me (and please don't ask me: then how the party teleported to normandy? Thats a very childish argument to doom the ending). And for the "ties up any loose ends", I don't know if u understand that's a personal preference of yours, some people may like an open ending which it is hard to know what happened to everyone. However, I'm happy Bioware will bring closure.

[quote] Is this a viable option for EA/Bioware? If they want to save a franchise which has made them a lot of money? Sure it is. Is it a viable jumping off point for further content? Of course it is. So why the hell not? Why dig in their heels using 'artistic vision' as an excuse? As a writer myself, yeah, I might be miffed if I wrote an ending which was profound and people didn't 'get it' and started trashtalking it. But that is not what happened. Again, as a writer myself, I'd jump at the chance at showing my creative genius and get to work drawing up several different endings.
[/quote] 

It is clear to me that Bioware didn't want mass effect to have a happy ending. So it is quite "a loss of time" writing several endings which will end always the same: you die or you sacrifice yourfriends, or both. However I also think they could have shown that our choices made at least a little difference in the end, and I hope they show it on the DLC.

But I repeat: Bioware don't want a happy ending for their saga, so there will be no named ending. And I respect this, because yes, this is artistic intrgrity. If they want to make their saga a tragical tale rather than a happy one, then it's up to them. I can apreciatte a bitter story.

That's all. Peace 

Modifié par Uriko128, 06 avril 2012 - 05:35 .

[Mad Cassidy]

Positives:
- Provides better closure
- More personalized endings
- Free


Negatives:
- Doesn't at all address the main concerns of fans, since we are still stuck with an ending 'choice' that makes little sense based on the word of some wonkey Star Kid whom we have no reason to trust, who we were taken to meet through a series of mystical plot holes

Modifié par Mad Cass, 06 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[Novate]

Uriko128 wrote...

Since I am one of the presumably few people that like the ending, here I go.

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Mass Effect: In with a Bang out with a Whimper

The reapers are sentient, and the Catalist created them. I don't think he controls them, rather they agree with him. Also they could have some kind of consensus like geth, but led by the starchild. Who knows? I'm happy the reapers are still kind of mysterious even after starchild appearance.

[So what should Sheppard do? Saying: no no you lie!!! While he is dying of hemorrhage? The catalist was not a weapon, the reapers won. The only thing Sheppard could do, was taking advantage of the catalist choices or just stand there and die.


Control

In the control ending we are led to believe that apparently the Crucibal doesn’t have a real switch and Shepard needs to complete a circuit or something rather than get what he or she needs from the Presidium Commons market or raid the Keeper’s tool box for something which could be used as a switch. So Shepard has to grab these two glowing rods and whilst being vaporized think happy thoughts and wish the Reapers away. 
The biggest issue I have with this is that the Reapers aren’t sentient or are really retarded for not doing something about a back door command signal. Essentially in 50,000+ years no one patched out this critical security flaw? And again if they were truly sentient and were able to rebel against their creators, why are they listening to this Catalyst, and again why does this device compel them to do anything? I also find it odd that the Catalyst endorses this and that Shepard’s eyes look exactly like the Illusive Man’s in the final moments just before disintegration. I’m not advocating indoctrination, but the symbolism of this can’t be ignored. We may lack context, but it’s something you should think about. Something BioWare needs to address.  Interestingly enough, the Citadel is also not destroyed in this ending as I recall. I don’t know what that means. I can only speculate.  

 

Well, the crucible can somehow control the reapers. However, Sheppard is the first to do it, as the catalist say: "I see other options now". And present those three to Sheppard. So yes, the catalist + sheppard's will are a tool to control the reapers. Do u really need more explanation? Some quantic physics or something? 

[How can you control something that is sentient, if the Reapers are Sentient, then how can you control them. You are not their master, why would they even listen to you. And with the answers you provided above on Sentience, in which you stated that the only reason Reapers listens to the Catalyst is because they agree, so how can Reapers agree to destroy organic life, and just because I choose control, i changed their mind immediately without them questioning me.

 
Synthesis

I’ve often heard of this being referred to as the good ending or the best ending. In truth this is nothing of the kind. It’s essentially the ending to Star Trek the Motion Picture, but more convoluted. This isn’t a movie you really want your story to emulate. Fan fiction and non-cannon fiction basically credits this as the rise of the Borg race, despite being somewhat unlikely based on statements made in the series. This choice bugs me because it’s already what the Reapers do anyway. The catalyst confirms that’s how organics live on. As Reapers. This also forces Shepard to go back on what is said a minute earlier. “We’ll keep our form thanks.” Or something to that effect. This is a unilateral decision in which organic and inorganic fusion should be forced on all beings in the galaxy. As another person pointed out I think in one of the Youtube videos, the solution to diversity is mediocrity? Really? I can’t believe anyone supports this ending. It’s the worst. 

Shepard also never asks what this will do to his or her companions and if anyone’s identity will remain intact. Could you imagine waking up and all of the sudden seeing bioluminescent circuitry all over your body. I’d probably freak out and kill myself. Especially if everyone I saw around me looked the same. So Shepard is going to make a unilateral call for the whole galaxy with no context and no questions? Please. At least My Shepard’s don’t do this. And again Shep’s eyes look like the Illusive Man’s just prior to being disintegrated.  

I think u have misunderstood the point of the catalist here. He is concerned about the organics/synthetics war. The point to offer a synthesis ending is this: If there are not two sides to make war, there's no war. 

So synthesis in your opinion is actually the greatest renegade option Shepard can choose. Because not only is he eliminating individuality, he is actually eliminating everyone's uniqueness. Destroying the very fundation that made Humanity stand out from the rest of the Galactic Civilization.  ( Samara said once, that with humans, if you have 3 humans in a room, you will have 6 opinions) This is what made Humanity Unique and a Danger to the Reapers.




[

Reason number 4: we don't want "additional cinematics and epilogue scenes" because we want to be able to make real choices and decide through those choices how Shepard's story ends.

The three choices we get are simply not choices Shepard could live with.

1) Kill all synthetic beings, including the Geth (in many cases now our allies, which would mean betraying them and would make Legion's sacrifice pointless) and Edi (now a crewmember and love interest of another  crewmember, Joker) despite all the evidence that quite possibly synthetic and biological beings -can- live together. Not an option, especially not for a Paragon, possibly not even for a Renegade as it would mean genocide.

2) Take control of the Reapers, not knowing for a fact that this could work, risking being overwhelmed and not
accomplishing anything but help the Reapers getting rid of Shepard. But even if Shepard remains in control, then what? Take away the freedom of choice for an entire race, no matter how heinous their crimes? Enforce peace throughout the Galaxy by using the Reapers as the ultimate 'big stick'? Sending the Reapers into the nearest star? It doesn't seem like much of a solution to me, much more like a dangerous gamble at best.

3) Fuse all organic and synthentic life, without anyone else having a say in this matter. Yeah, that seems like a nice thing to do to people, nevermind the implications of 'space magic' that really come with that.

In all cases, you furthermore: a) unquestionably accept the premise of the Star Child and of everything he is telling you and  condemn all races to being stranded where they are by blowing up the mass relays. Not every system is going to recover from that in time, no matter how that is solved in the end, millions if not billions will die.

Of course, if the three choices are a fakeout and Shepard really dies or becomes indoctrinated, then all of this is moot anyway.

 

You are asuming there's no way for the army to go back. Maybe there isn't. But those soldiers knew they could die or even worse. The three choices of Sheppard are the only way to stop the reapers, if you are frustrated because there isn't another choice, you could also be frustrated because u couldn't save Saren and recruit him on your team, or because you had to kill the Illusive Man in the end (and I wanted him to live! I like him!).

[b]There are parts in the ME3 that I wished I had a choice, Mordin, Thane, Legion were all actions that was out of my control, but they were good.
Imagine, when Mordin decided to go up to the tower. Then the game ended. You were told that he wanted to go up to the top. Then you are back to Normandy, going about your business.
You were never given the scene where he sings and gets cut off as the explosion happens, or where he replys with , "it had to be him, someone else would have gotten it wrong" as he goes up the elevator.

These extra scenes were the ones that makes the story memorable.

Or the scene where thane is about to die, and you were reciting the prayer. These are closure scenes that is missing from the Ending.

Modifié par Novate, 06 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[CharacterizationFail]

Unless this DLC turns out a lot better than it sounds, I'm out. I didn't want a happy ending (I actually wanted to be able to sacrifice my Shepard), but I wanted one that wasn't so full of plot holes that it resembles swiss cheese.

There's no way they can fix that without changing things (Joker running away, every army in existence stranded in the sol system to starve, Shepard suddenly becoming a doormat, why didn't god child just open up the relay in ME1 ect ect ect ect), and since they flat out said they aren't changing anything, just "expanding"... Yeah. No way this is going to be good.

Up until this game bioware was the one company I preordered *everything* from. Not anymore. They're all the way back in the "If other people (not reviewers) think it's awesome then I'll get it when it comes on sale and don't even think about getting DLC" pile.

[Felis Menari]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I think it's time to abandon BioWare. I'll hang on the forums, and try the DLC, yeah. But somehow, I really don't think clarification fixes the issue of the Starchild. I don't think BioWare's future is bright, and I certainly don't trust them anymore.

I will actively disavow any sort of monetary support for BioWare if these 'clarifications' prove insufficient. We asked for new endings that made sense. We did not get that. Hold the line.

This

i don't understand how they think they can "Clarify" STARCHILD I meen come on he's the biggest plot hole of the whole ending.

he's not only cheapend the reapers by making them out to be mindless puppets of some AI STARCHILD with a god complex. He cheapens Shepards character & makes everything we've done up untill now meaningless, not only Shepards actions but the Prothians actions also. Lets go through some of the things that the STARCHILD destroys with his presance.

1, As I've said before what was the point of the whole conversation on Vermire with a certain reaper if he was simply a puppet of STARCHILD. he's cheapend a very mysterious enemy by making them out to be nothing but is own version of a damb action figure that he use's for his twisted game's of war.
 
"you touch my mine fumbbling in ignorance incapable of understanding"  - Sovereign - Mass Effect

Well funny that my friend I think I understand JUST FINE, your a synthetic action figure created by "starchild" as his "SOLUTION" to the "PROBLEM" of organic life, Which leads us to yat another issue.

2,His circuler logic does not make sence, how the hell does he work out that organic life will be wiped out by synthetics that they create. If this were true then wouldn't it have made more sence for him to create the reapers to fight against the synthetics that threatend the balance of life. If this is indeed the reason for the creation of the reapers then why are they destroying all advanced organic life, with him being on the cidadel he would have been aware of the BANN on reasurch into AI technolegy. If this is the reason for the reapers existance it would have made more sence for them to only intervien when organic life went too far & was threatend by something it made.

"The created will always rebel against the creators" - Starchild - Mass Effect 3

If that's true my little psycopath then why the f*** haven't the reapers rebeled against you, I mean you are effectivly using them as slaves just like the Quarians did with the Geth. This will lead to issue no3.

3, If indeed organic life will be whiped out my synthetics they create then explain to me why in the 300 years since the Geths creation they never ventured beyond the vail. It was only when Sovereign approached the Geth with his offer that they discided to join him in his assult on organic life.

"Geth build are own future, the Heratics wanted the old machine to give them a future" - Legion - Mass Effect 2

Leigion proved that Synthetic life is just as diverse as organic in the way thay their way of thinking evolves, The Geth were torn apart by a difference of opinion. Those that thought that they should attempt to live in pease with organics & those that thought that they should go to war. Just like there reators the Quarrians, Tali's Trial on no2 was all over whether or not they should go to war with the Geth, with some wanting peace others war & then others wanting to controle them.

4, Star Child has effectivly cheapend Shepards Character & warped his/her personality with a bunch of retarded choices. The so called "Paagon" blue choice is a load of bulls***, how the hell do you think that giving into the Illusive man is a good thing. As for synthasis ending that is just a stupid option that contradicts the very basics of the Mass Effect story line. As for the destroy ending this one too does not make sence, although it is the only one that has any sence to it & is the least contradictory of the character & stroy.

"Paragon Choice" - The so called paragon choice is an evil choice not a good one, how the hell do you make out trading one master for another a good thing. Star child has just addmited to enslaving the reapers & is now giving you the option of becoming there new master how the hell is that a good thing. Shepards character if you chose the way of the Paragon was one that valued FREEDOM. Not long before the London mission you brokered peace between the Quarians & the Geth, allowing them to coexist on the same planet. That was a choice made on paragon Shepards value of FREEDOM, paragon Shepard understands that every life regardless of being synthetic or organic has the right to choose for themselfs. Although the choice made onboard the Heratic ship to rewrite the geth heratics some may say is in violation of this underlining fact that Paragon Shepard values freedom. This I must point out Leigion was in conflict with himself as to wether or not to destroy them, if you quized him about it he said 49% favour destruction 51% favour rewrite. Paragon Shepard argured that isn't rewriting them taking away thair right to choose for themselfs, this emphasising paragon Shepards value of FREEDOM. The fact that paragon Shepard made the choice to rewrite them rather than destroy them is based off the fact that Leigion was in conflict over it & that he'd come to the conclustion of 51% in favour of rewrite.
Shepards choice to release the Rackni queen on Noveria was also based off of Shepards value of freedom, he/she seen that the queen understood the reason behind why her people were wiped out. Shepard understood that every life has the right to choose for themselfs & gave the queen the chance to make amends for the her people. So I argue that this choice is not one that paragon Shepard would make as it go's against everything that paragon Shepard believes in & stands for.

"We Fight or We Die" - Paragon Shepard - at the begining of Mass Effect 3

"Neutral Choice" - This option like the so called paragon option is an evil choice, considering in Mass Effect 3 we had the option of choosing a neutral choice in conversations taken away from us this choice go's against both Paragon & Renagade Shepards basic character.Some believe this to be the best out of the three choices, they are wrong it is basicly the worst of the three as it is a sly way of saying the reapers win. Paragon Shepard said to the commitee at the start of the game "We fight or we Die" so then how do you come to the conclusion that this is a choice that paragon Shepard would make. considering that Renargade Shepard's basic character is victory at any cost, this choice also violates renergade Shepard character. This choice give's you the option of fusing synthetic & organic life together, which is basicly saying that the reapers win. I say this because if you think back to no 2 we fought a human reaper in the collecter base & the collecters had been kidnaping entire collonys of humans to make this reaper. They were using their genetic code in the creation of this new reaper proving that the reapers are already a combination of synthetic & organic life. So by choosing this option you have effectivly handed victory to the reapers by turning not only galactic civilisation into reapers but all life that has yet to evolve to the level of all involved in citadel community. This option violates paragon Shepard's basic value of freedom & renargde Shepard's victory at any cost nature, so I say how is this a good ending. It also made the sacrifice of many of your formar crew meaningless. Leigions sacrifice for the geth to be free & to have a life of their own being one of the many examples, so I say again how is this a good choice.

"Renergade Choice" - This although the least contradictory is also a badly thought of ending as it is also in violation of much that has happened thus far. The creation of the crucible was based off of a prothian skimatic that was found in the archive on Mars, yet this ending effectivly sc***'s over all advanced civilizations in the galaxy. It effectively says that you can only destroy the reapers by destroying all synthetic life & depending on how you have played till now also destroys all advanced tech such as FTL traval. It is clear from your interaction with Vigil on Ilos & your expiriance during the From Ashes DLC that the prothians relyed heavyly on VI & AI tech. So how does it make sence to disign a weapon that will effectivly kill off what is left of their speices just to achieve victory against the reapers. Although this may fit into renergade Shepards victory at any cost character, at the same time does not because it basicly ensures that there will be no life after this choice. With  the galactic fleet stranded in the Sol system after this choice has been made the massivly devistated Earth will NOT have the reasorces to support it's own population let alone the population of the fleet. Turians & Quarians can not eat human food so they will have to rely on whatever resorces they brought with them. Considering that the Quarians have just recently retaken their homeworld much of the reasorces they had would have been trancfered to the planet in an attempt to rebuild their way of life. So that said then if FTL traval was not destroyed by this choice then they will not have the resorces to make it home so they are affectively s****ed. The Turians also will have a great deal of problems returning to their home, although they do not have to go as far as the Quarians they will still have a long journey ahead which they likely will not be able to make. I have heard arguments that they can just stop off at a colony to get supplys but this is NOT the case, many of the colonys have either been evacuated of devistated by the reaper attacks so the chances of finding an active colony with enough resorces to spare is slim at best. Those of the races that could servive in the human systam of Sol like the humans are also sc***ed, as without reasorces their is no chance of rebuilding. It has already been said that many of the reasorces where used in the creation of the crucible. For Earth to rebuild it would need to send ships out to scan planets for resources, with no mass relays this search could take decades. Time that the people of Earth & the fleet do not have, even if they were able to find the resources by the time they found them, mined them & returned with them a large portion of the population would have died off either through war or starvation. It is human nature to fight for survival so lack of resources would effectivly trigger a civl war on earth, so while thouse people were off trying to find resoures the human race would be killing eachother. Even if this did not happen, by the time the ships that were sent to gather resources returned the need for said resources would have increased ten fould. This choice effectivly ensures that the fleet you gathered was for nothing as you have basicly doomed them all to death.

All three choices have had such an extreame lack of thought put into them it is unreal & considering that these choices came from the mouth of a genocidel AI they are even more unbelieveabl. All AI's do it THINK so how are these the only three outcomes that it can come up with, the very existance of the "STARCHILD" does not make sence. The only way I will be able to except the existance of his annoying & contradictory character is by way of the IT without that there is no way to make his existance viable.

I except & respect the fact that you have a right to your "Artistic Integrity" but I argue that this is not artistic in anyway considering the quallity of the game up untill the London mission.

Typos aside, this is yet another large but well thought out post. It makes enough sense that BW may consider it anathema to their artistic integrity argument. I sincerely hope that the extended cut DLC works in the indoctrination theory to do away with the star child encounter as the definitive ending. As it is stated in The Divine Avenger's post, the star child scene makes little to no sense when compared to the rest of ME3 itself, and the other two games.

The biggest problem I have with the star child is that the reason for his and the reapers' existence is to prevent AI creations from becoming technologically superior to organics and destroying their masters. This idea means diddly squat if the AI creations are reasonable and relatively peaceful unless provoked. And we all know of a particular race of AI beings that fits that description quite nicely. The Geth's existence (as well as EDI's) is anathema to the star child's argument (provided that you brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians). The events that took place on Rannoch (if you obtained peace) render the star child/reapers' reason for existence null and void IMO. The fact that Shepard does not call the star child on his bull **** is absurd.

If the star child and currently existing plot holes remain even after the extended cut DLC is released...we will witness the death of a once beloved franchise.

Modifié par Felis Menari, 06 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[Tirranek]

Bfler wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

If they actively changed the ending, I'm pretty sure a new lot of the mostly silent majority would cry foul, and a whole new wave of criticisms would be thrown in Bioware's direction.

You wouldn't have to download the alternative ending if you are ok with the current one. So where is the problem?

Because I think if you have an ending that was made to fix issues with the previous version, then whatever came previously will seem out of date and no longer canon. I know that's not an issue for a lot of people on BSN, who think it's crap, but it could kick off a whole new wave of dissatisfaction from the other side, who make up an unknown percentage of the quiet majority of players.

[Lurchibald]

Tirranek wrote...

Bfler wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

If they actively changed the ending, I'm pretty sure a new lot of the mostly silent majority would cry foul, and a whole new wave of criticisms would be thrown in Bioware's direction.

You wouldn't have to download the alternative ending if you are ok with the current one. So where is the problem?

Because I think if you have an ending that was made to fix issues with the previous version, then whatever came previously will seem out of date and no longer canon. I know that's not an issue for a lot of people on BSN, who think it's crap, but it could kick off a whole new wave of dissatisfaction from the other side, who make up an unknown percentage of the quiet majority of players.

No longer canon? To quote Bioware "There is no canon"

[Wabajakka]

They're listening!!

[Wiggly]

I think it's a good idea. An extended ending is alot better than nothing, I'd prefer more choices but this works too.

[Controller_B]

It's pointless to complain about a DLC fix that isn't out yet. What's the demand now? We want changes to a DLC we haven't seen yet? That borders on absurdity. I don't think people should stop complaining about the current ending because it still exists and those complaints still need to shape the DLC. But whining about a press release that doesn't really even tell you anything isn't going to be taken seriously.

[Edrick1976]

I dont believe ANYTHING that BioWare said they broken my trust and I will NEVER BELIEVE THEM AGAIN!!!!! We wanted a DIFFERENT ENDING AND ALL WE GOT IS SH*T....

Modifié par Edington, 07 avril 2012 - 07:06 .

[Dr_Hello]

You did it EA, bravo!! --> consumerist.com/2012/04/congratulations-ea-you-are-the-worst-company-in-america-for-2012.html

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 07 avril 2012 - 07:11 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Controller_B wrote...

It's pointless to complain about a DLC fix that isn't out yet. What's the demand now? We want changes to a DLC we haven't seen yet? That borders on absurdity. I don't think people should stop complaining about the current ending because it still exists and those complaints still need to shape the DLC. But whining about a press release that doesn't really even tell you anything isn't going to be taken seriously.

Largely how I feel. We literally know nothing about how this will expand on the endings, let's wait until we get some real details or even the DLC itself, please.

[Drenick18]

they should release this DLC before May 15, because by then a lot of people will be .. somewhere else. like Tristram.

[tyrion55]

Well technically, adding something onto the Destroy option could be defined as "expanding". There would be no need to change the current ending if they carried on from there claiming the IT theory. They said they wouldnt change the current ending, which they wouldnt be doing. Of course if they said they wouldnt "add" anything additional to the ending, then sure.

Either way, Ive been a longtime bioware customer since Baldur's Gate 1. Felt quite letdown by the ending as it really wasnt even close to the normal calibre of Bioware, grossly incomplete really. Basically, I will not be buying any additional content or additional games(at preorder etc, might rent to see if worth buying first).

Also, what was the point of the scene of Shepard at the end of the destroy ending for then? If It theory isnt true, why a scene showing him breathing? It doesnt make any sense unless they planned to add something onto the end. Otherwise they might as well as cut it from the ending.