53 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedrak]

One of the things I disliked about DA2 was the lack of the origins, one of the best, most interesting features of DAO.
However, there was a reasonable choice behind this: Hawke's family and background played a rather important part in the story, and multiple origins would have been difficult to include.

Now, I personally hope DA3 will follow DAO's model rather than DA2's, and include the origins. But some people keep saying: you can't have different races with a voiced PC! And since the voiced PC seems inevitable for DA3 (whether it's a good idea or not, it's another matter), so obviously we can't have origins in DA3.

Well, I totally disagree.

You can totally have a voiced PC with different races and origins. It's a clichè that each Dwarf has to sound like Brian Blessed and each Elf like a tenor.


Ex. Brandon Keener (Garrus in Mass Effect) and Grey DeLisle (Viconia in Baldur's Gate) have pleasant voices with an interesting quality to them, which I think would fit each race. 

Any other suggestion or comment is welcome.

Modifié par Pedrak, 05 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[Cultist]

It is impossible to avoid damage Voiced Protagonist will do to DA3 now. We can only hope that BioWare will manage to avoid DA2-style approach to the series. At least low male voice is fitting for human, elf and dwarf. Harder with female voices, sadly.

[WardenWade]

I completely agree with all of this. One voice could work for all races...even a little change in tone or pitch could serve to differentiate, if needed. I for one am for it if that's what it takes to get races back. And as you touched on, Faerunner, more than a few elves in DA:O and DA2 for example, had deeper voices (Cyrion or Paivel, for example)...and some dwarves like Zerlinda or even Bhelen had higher-pitched voices. If tone can be adjusted for Hawke's chosen personality in conversation, it could certainly work here, in my opinion. Likewise, surface dwarves, city elves and humans all would share some similar life experiences, despite each race's prejudices...enough where I think providing race options could be doable and not break the game, story-wise.

As the OP mentioned, I too want origins back so badly. It was a blow to realize it wouldn't be an option in DA2, and limiting us to one race--whatever one it may be--in future DA games is the problem, in my opinion, of "human only" perpetuated. Many will be displeased however Bioware jumps on that point, so why not give us back the chance to be whatever we prefer? Likewise, we don't know the identity of our PC in DA3...in DA2 Hawke's perspective was needed but here it appears fluid thus far, and in that case there's no reason to my mind not to return races.

Modifié par WardenWade, 06 avril 2012 - 12:47 .

[PinkShoes]

Lets be honest and say that one of the most interesting things about DAO was your Origins somewhat made a bit of a difference in the story. Now i'm sure what many people expected in DA2 was we had those origins again but our race made more of an impact. Anyway, yes i would like a voice per race. I mean i would like multiple voices for each race but that not gunna happen, at least that way not all my characters would sound the same and if i disliked the human male voice (which i did in DA2) i could play a male elf, hoping his voice is good.

[Taritu]

I'm pretty sure they won't do Origins. Gaider has often noted that 80% of the players just played humans anyway in DA:O (don't get me wrong, I hope they do. My city elf females were my favorite, for the awesome terminatrix sequence, but...)

[BubbleDncr]

I don't know if I need an DA:O style Origin - a Mass Effect style "pick your back story" would be fine for me. I would just like the opportunity to play something other than a human. So, sharing the same voice for a human, city elf, or dwarf would be fine with me if it gets me that.

But at the same time, I can easily see how they would have to do at least some kind of Origin to get those 3 characters all to the same place in the storyline. At minimum, I would think there would have to be at least 4 Origins: city elf in whatever the starting city is, human in whatever the starting city is, surface dwarf in whatever the starting city is, and human/elf mage in the circle of whatever the starting city is.

Even if they limited us to just humans, I think we would still need 2 origins - one for rogue/warrior, and one for mage, just because of the current political state.

Honestly, the more I think about it, I have a hard time seeing how a mage character could have any sort of similar "beginning state" or character motivations as a warrior/rogue - unless the player is a Grey Warden. Hmmm...

[slashthedragon]

Taritu wrote...

I'm pretty sure they won't do Origins. Gaider has often noted that 80% of the players just played humans anyway in DA:O (don't get me wrong, I hope they do. My city elf females were my favorite, for the awesome terminatrix sequence, but...)

Why does the % ever matter?  And furthermore, where are they getting the numbers--does their downloader spy on you???  ugh.  Every RPG I've played I've always played different races.  When I played the MMORPG DnD  I had one human, two elves and a dwarf.

Modifié par slashthedragon, 05 avril 2012 - 11:49 .

[BubbleDncr]

slashthedragon wrote...

Taritu wrote...

I'm pretty sure they won't do Origins. Gaider has often noted that 80% of the players just played humans anyway in DA:O (don't get me wrong, I hope they do. My city elf females were my favorite, for the awesome terminatrix sequence, but...)

Why does the % ever matter?  And furthermore, where are they getting the numbers--does their downloader spy on you???  ugh.  Every RPG I've played I've always played different races.  When I played the MMORPG DnD  I had one human, two elves and a dwarf.

Well, this website actually kept track of all your achievments and what plot points you reached for Origins, so yea, they pretty much do spy on you. And the sad truth is the video game companies sometimes have to make decisions based on what majority of the players will see.

So, if 80% of players will play as a human, should the put some resources towards the 20% who will play as an elf or dwarf, and keep those resources on the main plotline that more people will see?

I personally don't understand why 80% of people would play as human tho. I mean, in Origins, I eventually did, because I wanted a character that could marry the queen at the end, but otherwise, whenever I'm given the option to make a human or something else, I always make something else.

[Yrkoon]

The fact that they'd scrap origins simply because most people only played one of the 6 seems like a lazy excuse and not the real reason at all. This same Data gathering also shows that 80% of those who play a game don't finish it. So does that mean they shouldn't bother putting endings to their games?

Personally, If they refuse to give us different races then I think the solution would be to still have Origins, just make them career based instead of race based. (Mages get their own, Warriors get their own, Rogues get their own)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 06 avril 2012 - 01:20 .

[Pasquale1234]

I think the protag voicing is one of the reasons we won't see race origins again anytime soon, although it is for different reasons than what some of you are citing.

From my perspective, what made the different origins meaningful in DAO were the different characterizations and personalities implied by those different backgrounds.  For example, my human noble Warden was bold, confident, authoritative, and part of Ferelden's political establishment while my dwarf commoner Warden was somewhat bashful and uncomfortable with a leadership role, and my city elf Warden was terse and bitter.  A single VA cannot capture all of these different personality styles and presentations.

Furthermore, DAO gave us different scenarios that allowed us to fully roleplay each of these different Wardens in situations that were significant to them individually.  For example, going to Orzammar felt very different to a dwarf commoner versus a dwarf noble versus any other origin, facing Howe was different for the human noble, going to the alienage was different for the city elf, dealing with Connor and Jowan was different for a circle mage.

When a protagonist is going to be fully voiced and animated, it has to be partly to fully pre-defined.  Oh, I suppose they could do different versions of that pre-defined protagonist, but would have to cut down a lot of other game content in order to do so.  Since they have stated their intention to continue in this more cinematic, fully voiced presentation style, I would expect the protag will continue to be (mostly) pre-defined, without much variety in characterization, only "tone".

The bottom line here, for me anyway, is what real difference would it make to have a different avatar if the protag still behaves the same way?

[BubbleDncr]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I think the protag voicing is one of the reasons we won't see race origins again anytime soon, although it is for different reasons than what some of you are citing.

From my perspective, what made the different origins meaningful in DAO were the different characterizations and personalities implied by those different backgrounds.  For example, my human noble Warden was bold, confident, authoritative, and part of Ferelden's political establishment while my dwarf commoner Warden was somewhat bashful and uncomfortable with a leadership role, and my city elf Warden was terse and bitter.  A single VA cannot capture all of these different personality styles and presentations.

Furthermore, DAO gave us different scenarios that allowed us to fully roleplay each of these different Wardens in situations that were significant to them individually.  For example, going to Orzammar felt very different to a dwarf commoner versus a dwarf noble versus any other origin, facing Howe was different for the human noble, going to the alienage was different for the city elf, dealing with Connor and Jowan was different for a circle mage.

When a protagonist is going to be fully voiced and animated, it has to be partly to fully pre-defined.  Oh, I suppose they could do different versions of that pre-defined protagonist, but would have to cut down a lot of other game content in order to do so.  Since they have stated their intention to continue in this more cinematic, fully voiced presentation style, I would expect the protag will continue to be (mostly) pre-defined, without much variety in characterization, only "tone".

The bottom line here, for me anyway, is what real difference would it make to have a different avatar if the protag still behaves the same way?

Because I think elves are cooler?

But yes, I agree, you make very good points. But the same logic could but put on, "how can the same voice actress do the voice for my nice, squishy mage but also for my battle-hardedn, jerk of a warrior?" Cos that's how it was in DA2, and it seemed to work out fine, in my opinion.

So, if they used the same "tone" set up in DA3, my bashful city elf would probably mostly use the "nice" tone, my resentful surface dwarf use the "aggressive" tone, and my arogant human use the "snarky" tone.

[Pasquale1234]

BubbleDncr wrote...
Because I think elves are cooler?

But yes, I agree, you make very good points. But the same logic could but put on, "how can the same voice actress do the voice for my nice, squishy mage but also for my battle-hardedn, jerk of a warrior?" Cos that's how it was in DA2, and it seemed to work out fine, in my opinion.

So, if they used the same "tone" set up in DA3, my bashful city elf would probably mostly use the "nice" tone, my resentful surface dwarf use the "aggressive" tone, and my arogant human use the "snarky" tone.

I guess I don't see so much differentiation in characterization or personality based only on tone.

Most of the people I know IRL are quite capable of being diplomatic, snarky, assertive, or aggressive in different situations depending largely on their current state of mind or mood - and a lot of that can depend on how well they slept, how much coffee they've had, how stressed they are feeling, etc.  As a result, I don't see distinctly different Hawkes based only on tone selections.  Of course, I also believe that a genuinely bashful character would not deliver a "nice" line the same way that an outgoing character does.  And a deeply bitter, resentful character might use diplomacy to achieve his/her ends, but would say the words in a very different way than a character who generally seeks compromise in all things.  Different motives, same line delivered in the same way by the same VA.

YMMV - and apparently does. 

[MICHELLE7]

Taritu wrote...

I'm pretty sure they won't do Origins. Gaider has often noted that 80% of the players just played humans anyway in DA:O (don't get me wrong, I hope they do. My city elf females were my favorite, for the awesome terminatrix sequence, but...)

They could still have origins to some extent with a human only protagonist...I mean they did have different backstories for human's in DAO depending on whether they were a mage/warrior/rogue.

Personally I prefer my character voiced...I like the banter when she joins in with the other companions.

[BubbleDncr]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...
Because I think elves are cooler?

But yes, I agree, you make very good points. But the same logic could but put on, "how can the same voice actress do the voice for my nice, squishy mage but also for my battle-hardedn, jerk of a warrior?" Cos that's how it was in DA2, and it seemed to work out fine, in my opinion.

So, if they used the same "tone" set up in DA3, my bashful city elf would probably mostly use the "nice" tone, my resentful surface dwarf use the "aggressive" tone, and my arogant human use the "snarky" tone.

I guess I don't see so much differentiation in characterization or personality based only on tone.

Most of the people I know IRL are quite capable of being diplomatic, snarky, assertive, or aggressive in different situations depending largely on their current state of mind or mood - and a lot of that can depend on how well they slept, how much coffee they've had, how stressed they are feeling, etc.  As a result, I don't see distinctly different Hawkes based only on tone selections.  Of course, I also believe that a genuinely bashful character would not deliver a "nice" line the same way that an outgoing character does.  And a deeply bitter, resentful character might use diplomacy to achieve his/her ends, but would say the words in a very different way than a character who generally seeks compromise in all things.  Different motives, same line delivered in the same way by the same VA.

YMMV - and apparently does. 

I get your point.

Even if DA:O and DA2 has the same three dialog options, that could come off as "nice, snarky, or aggrassive," - in DA:O, since there character's voice is in your head, your city elf would say the nice response differently than your dwarf, because of their personality and cultural differences.

One thing to consider tho, is how the NPC's interpret your response.

Say an NPC is trying to convince you to do a job for them.
Your happy, enthusiatic human says, "I'll do it."
Your bitter dwarf grumbles, "I'll do it."

Both picked the same response, but the voice in your head is very different, and any normal, living person would pick up on the fact that the dwarf doesn't really want to do it, but just wanted the NPC to go away. But the NPC will always interpret it the same way.

[Pasquale1234]

Faerunner wrote...

The way I see it, there doesn't have to be several elaborate cultural backgrounds that significantly alter the main character like in the first game, (not that Bioware would do it anyway,) but a quick prologue and some throwaway lines here and there to acknowledge the difference. Or maybe it's too much effort to ask the writers to extend, I don't know. I just feelt that just having the option to choose multiple races was such a staple to Bioware fantasy rpg games for so long that it would be a shame to lose it. =(

Yes, I suppose they could minimize the racial distinctions, but I have to wonder how satisfying it would be.  For me, the different cultural backgrounds give me very different perspectives in defining the character I am playing - but, again, when we're talking about a (mostly) pre-defined character, I just don't see much point in it.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't want other people to have that opportunity if it would please them.

BubbleDncr wrote...

One thing to consider tho, is how the NPC's interpret your response.

Say an NPC is trying to convince you to do a job for them.
Your happy, enthusiatic human says, "I'll do it."
Your bitter dwarf grumbles, "I'll do it."

Both picked the same response, but the voice in your head is very different, and any normal, living person would pick up on the fact that the dwarf doesn't really want to do it, but just wanted the NPC to go away. But the NPC will always interpret it the same way.

'Tis true, and one of the reasons why the non-voiced protag has so much more replay value imho.  Because the NPCs react the same way regardless of how the line is delivered, you can expose different nuances in the NPC's personalities when you play a protag with an entirely different personality.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 06 avril 2012 - 10:15 .

[Sharn01]

I dont think it has anything to do with who plays what, it all boils down to what the devs want to do.

Almost no one sided with the Templar's in Origins so they went out of the way to make mages look insane in DA2. By the same logic they should have gone out of their way to make elves and dwarves more appealing to play.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, you could have the same voice for the different races. It would be an interesting trick to find a voice that matched both a kossith and an elf.

PinkShoes wrote...

Lets be honest and say that one of the most interesting things about DAO was your Origins somewhat made a bit of a difference in the story.

The most interesting thing about DA:O was the various companions. Same is true for DA II.

Yrkoon wrote...

The fact that they'd scrap origins simply because most people only played one of the 6 seems like a lazy excuse and not the real reason at all. This same Data gathering also shows that 80% of those who play a game don't finish it. So does that mean they shouldn't bother putting endings to their games?

David Gaider said that 80% of players only played humans. He never said that's why they made Hawke human only. That's something your fellow forumites have come up with.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 06 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Don't you mean that you can have races and a voiced PC? I agree. Bioware could try that but I doubt they will. They could give origins to a human PC though and make them more unique and diverse and have further consequences in the story.

From what I've heard though, it seems classes and specializations are the new "origins":

http://social.biowar...ndex/11133804/1

"Q6: Will we see more class-specific stuff? Mage only storylines, etc.

A6: Yes. In general, more exclusive content based on how you play / choices you make on all fronts.

A6b: Considering more story impact for specializations, for instance. (Blood Mage, especially.)"

But they could still add Origins to playthrough. I mean the world is on the brink of a war (or is it already in one?). They could easily introduce the new character into the game via several different means. A mage should certainly have a unique prologue to the game.

[warriorrc]

just wondering why did almost everyone play as a human in Dao? its just a question dont get angry

[Maria Caliban]

warriorrc wrote...

just wondering why did almost everyone play as a human in Dao? its just a question dont get angry

Human is default.

[Iosev]

Instead of reintroducing "origins", I would rather that Bioware create playthroughs that dramatically differed between the mage, rogue, and warrior archetypes; instead of just being slightly altered campaigns, they would separate and intersect at different points of the storyline.

As far as including other races as the protagonist, I wouldn't mind the idea of the same actor voicing different races.

Modifié par arcelonious, 07 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[andraip]

If you can voice a game in 3 different languagues you also can have 6 VA for the PC instead of 2, seriously.

DA:O had a lot more spoken words then DA2, and DA:O sold over expectations (= it would have been profitable with a higher budget).

They could use lower quality (or not that high a quality) VAs as for the Human PC since most only play humans anyway.

There simply is no reason why BioWare can't or won't use different races in DA3 with different VOs each. Except if EA still hasn't learned their lesson that quick buck =/= profitable in the long run.