53 réponses à ce sujet

[Freckle Face]

I only ever play humans anyway, so I don't care about the race options. But even if they only give an option to play as a human, I hope there'd be different origins. OP is right, that was one of the most interesting parts of DA:O for me

[Yrkoon]

warriorrc wrote...

just wondering why did almost everyone play as a human in Dao? its just a question dont get angry

Because it was one of the races... and accounted for 2 origins.

That's my Reason.  I played tons of Humans in DA:O.  But I also played an elf and a couple of  Dwarves.  And  DA:O would have only been half as good had I not been able to play and Elf or a Dwarf.

And see, this is what happens when Designers worship their metrics.  They unwittingly add unnecessary limitations to a game, at the cost of their own creativity.  People WANT choices/options, even if  they already  know which one they'll likely pick.  Give them options anyway.  Makes for a better game.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 07 avril 2012 - 10:46 .

[AlexJK]

Yrkoon wrote...

This same data gathering also shows that 80% of those who play a game don't finish it. So does that mean they shouldn't bother putting endings to their games?

The Mass Effect 3 team certainly thought so...

Personally, If they refuse to give us different races then I think the solution would be to still have Origins, just make them career based instead of race based. (Mages get their own, Warriors get their own, Rogues get their own)

Sounds like this is what they're thinking of doing, at least with class-specific quests during the story, if not an origin chapter.

Begemotka wrote...

I am one of the curious exceptions from the rule in that, although I have registered my DA games, I have never played them online. I have multiple playthroughs on each DA title, but for a long time, have only been lurking around the forums. Now I felt the need to register,but for technical reasons,I could not upload and sync my DAO profile (DAO PC Steam version), so BW will never have my statistics.

As far as I know, the data-gathering system is entirely separate to the social site profile-uploading one, so BW may still have your game stats even if you don't have the right character profiles here. I hope so anyway, as the social site upload is bugged beyond belief.

[WardenWade]

Begemotka wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Well, this website actually kept track of all your achievments and what plot points you reached for Origins, so yea, they pretty much do spy on you. And the sad truth is the video game companies sometimes have to make decisions based on what majority of the players will see.

So, if 80% of players will play as a human, should the put some resources towards the 20% who will play as an elf or dwarf, and keep those resources on the main plotline that more people will see?

I personally don't understand why 80% of people would play as human tho. I mean, in Origins, I eventually did, because I wanted a character that could marry the queen at the end, but otherwise, whenever I'm given the option to make a human or something else, I always make something else.

I am one of the curious exceptions from the rule in that,although I have registered my DA games,I have never played them online. I have multiple playthroughs on each DA title,but for a long time,have only been lurking around the forums.
Now I felt the need to register,but for technical reasons,I could not upload and sync my DAO profile (DAO PC Steam version),so BW will never have my statistics.I played every origin,and for example,in all those playthroughs,killed Loghain only once:ph34r:(which-offing him,I mean-one would think is the popular choice,no?).

Using only BSN data for analysis would also exclude many thousands of those other "unregistered" forum lurkers.
And even when registered,not everybody plays online and many ppl do not update their gamer profiles.
Just saying that the BSN gamer data is by no means representative.

As for the majority / minority (aka 80 % vs. 20%) : suppose that the 20% figure is accurate,and only 1/5th of players played as elves or dwarves - does that invalidate their choice and means that the possibility to play those races again be scrapped?
Allocating resources is one thing,but that is just...not fair.Besides, 20 % is not bad - I have no idea how many copies of DAO they sold worldwide,but that 1/5 could mean well over a million players.

I'm in the same boat as far as sending data to Bioware, Begemotka   I initially played DA:O on a PS3 that wasn't connected to the PSN, and though I've since begun playing it on PC I too was unable to send preference data or profile information (all non-human playthroughs in my case) when Origins came out.  

Mr. Gaider has noted that Bioware is aware that many gamers enjoyed race customization, however, and it is under discussion for DA3.  And IIRC he has noted the value of adding these sorts of options for customization whether an individual gamer chooses to use them or not.  I missed choosing a race in DA2 terribly and personally it was the greatest stumbling block for me, in terms of enjoying the game...I hope Bioware will take opinions like yours and others to heart and include races once again in DA3. 

Additionally, I don't personally believe voiced protagonists need be an obstacle to races returning...Hawke had three "personalities" available in DA2 and each of his/her conversations had to be recorded multiple times as it was.  With certain groups--city elves, (surface) dwarves, many humans and even kossith (Tal Vashoth perhaps?)--having similar basic "accents" a single voice actor for each gender could, IMO, certainly be workable here.  Likewise, these groups could conceivably have similar enough backgrounds to make it work.

Modifié par WardenWade, 16 avril 2012 - 08:48 .

[WardenWade]

Begemotka wrote...

WardenWade wrote...

Begemotka wrote...

I am one of the curious exceptions from the rule in that,although I have registered my DA games,I have never played them online. I have multiple playthroughs on each DA title,but for a long time,have only been lurking around the forums.
Now I felt the need to register,but for technical reasons,I could not upload and sync my DAO profile (DAO PC Steam version),so BW will never have my statistics.I played every origin,and for example,in all those playthroughs,killed Loghain only once:ph34r:(which-offing him,I mean-one would think is the popular choice,no?).

Using only BSN data for analysis would also exclude many thousands of those other "unregistered" forum lurkers.
And even when registered,not everybody plays online and many ppl do not update their gamer profiles.
Just saying that the BSN gamer data is by no means representative.

As for the majority / minority (aka 80 % vs. 20%) : suppose that the 20% figure is accurate,and only 1/5th of players played as elves or dwarves - does that invalidate their choice and means that the possibility to play those races again be scrapped?
Allocating resources is one thing,but that is just...not fair.Besides, 20 % is not bad - I have no idea how many copies of DAO they sold worldwide,but that 1/5 could mean well over a million players.

I'm in the same boat as far as sending data to Bioware, Begemotka   I initially played DA:O on a PS3 that wasn't connected to the PSN, and though I've since begun playing it on PC I too was unable to send preference data or profile information (all non-human playthroughs in my case) when Origins came out.  

Mr. Gaider has noted that Bioware is aware that many gamers enjoyed race customization, however, and it is under discussion for DA3.  And IIRC he has noted the value of adding these sorts of options for customization whether an individual gamer chooses to use them or not.  I missed choosing a race in DA2 and personally it was the greatest stumbling block for me, in terms of enjoying the game...I hope Bioware will take opinions like yours and others to heart and include races once again in DA3. 

Additionally, I don't personally believe voiced protagonists need be an obstacle to races returning...Hawke had three "personalities" available in DA2 and each of his/her conversations had to be recorded multiple times as it was.  With certain groups--city elves, (surface) dwarves, many humans and even kossith (Tal Vashoth perhaps?)--having similar basic "accents" a single voice actor for each gender could, IMO, certainly be workable here.  Likewise, these groups could conceivably have similar enough backgrounds to make it work.

I concur,good Ser:)   Warden Wade...as in..."...and if you have any more scales..." Wade ?

I agree with you on both counts,i.e. race selection and one VA for all races.Obviously they will not be returning to the silent protagonist,but one VA would be fine with me,if it meant more varied PC backgrounds.
I had this problem with Hawke...I was FORCED to be Hawke.As in...somebody called Hawke.

In DAO,the only immutable "identity" the player got was their faction - Grey Warden.That aside,you could be any one of those origins.I could chose one I most identified with,then tried all the others.I felt I had as many game copies as there were origin choices.Please,BW,we need that back.

Heh, actually that's just my main Tabris Warden's name  *points at avatar*...I already had it picked out and didn't know armorer Wade was in the game at the time!  Worked out well IMO 

And I agree, I enjoyed the silent PC a great deal and had no issue with it personally, but I can accept a single voice if that's what it takes for us to have a return of all races, and origins.  As you mentioned, the crafting of your character is vital and I feel we lost a lot of that in DA2.  I loved all the origins in DA:O and having that choice, and as the concept of "customization" seems to be something Bioware is looking at very seriously for DA3, race options fit very well here IMO and are to me the only way to truly tell Thedas' story.

I second this...I miss races terribly, and I hope we'll hear more from Bioware on this point soon.

Modifié par WardenWade, 16 avril 2012 - 02:19 .

[WardenWade]

Begemotka wrote...

WardenWade wrote...

Heh, actually that's just my main Tabris Warden's name  *points at avatar*...I already had it picked out and didn't know armorer Wade was in the game at the time!  Worked out well IMO 

And I agree, I enjoyed the silent PC a great deal and had no issue with it personally, but I can accept a single voice if that's what it takes for us to have a return of all races, and origins.  As you mentioned, the crafting of your character is vital and I feel we lost a lot of that in DA2.  I loved all the origins in DA:O and having that choice, and as the concept of "customization" seems to be something Bioware is looking at very seriously for DA3, race options fit very well here IMO and are to me the only way to truly tell Thedas' story.

I second this...I miss races terribly, and I hope we'll hear more from Bioware on this point soon.

Oh,ok,lol *points at Warden Wade`s avatar* - although armorer Wade is a true inspiration for the eccentric artisan everywhere.
Actually,I would have loved to have him at my party camp,alongside Bodahn and Sandal.

It is encouraging to hear the devs are looking into the race selection issue,and can hardly wait what they come up with.I understand they do not want to promise anything until they make sure it works - and to be honest,I`d rather they did not,either.Confirming anything before it is 100% in the shipped game is shooting yourself in the foot.You can tell I`m the patient sort:)

Absolutely!  I thought Wade and Herren were great...I would have gladly taken them along myself!  Hopefully we haven't seen the last of them...or their patron the Warden for that matter...

Yes, I'm hungry for more news on this and other issues as well.  Bioware seems to be standing by a "show" rather than "tell" policy on DA3, and that does indeed make sense.  It's hard to wait, but hopefully this is a sign the devs plan to take the time necessary to make DA3 great...and, hopefully, to re-implement these facets we miss so much, and that enrich the story so

Modifié par WardenWade, 16 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[SeanMurphy2]

I think choice of background seems good for the DA series.

DA is meant to be about the diversity and depth of the Thedas world. So it is good to be able to choose different backgrounds and have a different perspective on the world.

I wonder whether Kirkwall would have been more interesting if you got to experience from the perspective of characters with different backgrounds. Hawke seemed to be a combination of Ferelden refugee, dispossessed nobility and apostate mage.

Full origin stories would take up too much resources. Maybe they could focus on a few backgrounds and plan out some reactivity to it. Have some backgrounds you choose at the start of the game similiar to the origin stories. And some like the blood mage that occur during the game.

Even if they don't like having Elf/Dwarf main characters for cinematic reasons. It is still preferable to have human characters with a choice of backgrounds to give different perspectives on Orlais.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 16 avril 2012 - 07:19 .

[Eyeofanger]

I don't get it why couldn't elves dwarfs and human have the same voice in the end voice actors are humans in case you didn't notice

[Bizantura]

It would be nice to have choice of race and background but I rather have one good fleshed out protagonist in a well put gripping sensible storyline. If they have the budget and time then please go for it.

[LobselVith8]

Cultist wrote...

It is impossible to avoid damage Voiced Protagonist will do to DA3 now. We can only hope that BioWare will manage to avoid DA2-style approach to the series. At least low male voice is fitting for human, elf and dwarf. Harder with female voices, sadly.

Gaider has already stated that the paraphrasing and the auto-lines will continue, so it doesn't seem that they are going to change the style of the series.

[cindercatz]

Pedrak wrote...

You can totally have a voiced PC with different races and origins. It's a clichè that each Dwarf has to sound like Brian Blessed and each Elf like a tenor.

Totally agreed. Thanks. :-) If possible, it's ideal to have two voice actors for each gender, just to cover potential accents, etc., but a good solid voice for the male and the usual strong female va would do the job well enough if cost is a concern. Especially between elf and human, there's no real need for a difference in voice pitch with the male, and any female voice works for all three races. If you want to make Qunari playable at some point, you'd definitely need two VAs per gender, but I doubt that's an issue.

edit:
If it's not clear by now to anybody who's read my posts, the multiple origins and multiple race selection are two of the most important aspects of the Dragon Age franchise to me. They provide a lot of extra gameplay, far stronger immersion into the Dragon Age world and all its settings, and immensely more replay value, which is crucial to what makes Dragon Age different and valuable against anything else out there on the market. These are what make Dragon Age special.

Modifié par cindercatz, 18 avril 2012 - 04:25 .

[brushyourteeth]

Agree completely with OP. I'd be happy with even just a few Origins choices. In a competitive industry where your best bet is to make a game that stands out from the crowd, it's a shame to see DA:O's stand-out signature feature go by the wayside.

I still loved DAII, and I understand the developer choice to highlight Hawke's story, but the origins are really something special. Anything else will always feel like a downgrade to me.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 18 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[Pedrak]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Agree completely with OP. I'd be happy with even just a few Origins choices. In a competitive industry where your best bet is to make a game that stands out from the crowd, it's a shame to see DA:O's stand-out signature feature go by the wayside.

.

Exactly. In fact, DAO's Origins were the one feature that every review mentioned as unique and interesting and that, judging by internet forums, even people who overall didn't like the game found intriguing.

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 avril 2012 - 03:00 .

[5trangeCase]

I don't think multiple actually playable origins is necessary, but background decisions and races would be nice without having to play them out.

In regard to voice acting, have you ever played a game called Soul Calibur IV? That had a character creation system that had multiple voices to choose from. Yes, they had far less to talk about, that's not my point. My point is, that you could alter the pitch and tone of the voices, to the extent that they sounded almost entirely different. You could still have one male and one female voice actor, but by being able to alter the pitch and tone (or having it auto-altered depending on your race) you could still have characters who sound more appropriate to their race.

[5trangeCase]

Faerunner wrote...

But that's just it. The idea that different races have to have universally different voice pitches is old, cliche and out-dated for a lot of people. It makes them feel more like cookie-cutter stereotypes than fleshed out characters.

I agree with you to an extent, but it is a compromise.

In the end however, Indian people and English people sounding different is not cookie-cutter stereotyping, they naturally sound different and they aren't even different races. Consequently, the argument that Elves and Dwarves should sound different from humans has merit.

Also, Qunari absolutely without a doubt do sound different from the other races.

[TheShadowWolf911]

why don't they just have the same voice regardless of species, SWTOR did it, i see no reasons not to do it here, just add a remark or 2 with some NPCs and that will do it.

i just want to be a bloody Kossith!

[Joy Divison]

AlexJK wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

This same data gathering also shows that 80% of those who play a game don't finish it. So does that mean they shouldn't bother putting endings to their games?

The Mass Effect 3 team certainly thought so...

That's actually funny

[Vovea]

Thinking of Sigrun's voice I can easily imagine her as an elf or human.

[WardenWade]

I agree. IMO it could easily work to have one VA each for male and female PCs, no matter the race. As has been mentioned, many groups from various races have similar accents as it is (kossith, many humans, city elves and dwarves). Some pitch/tone changes could easily be done to differentiate as much as needed, although as Faerunner mentioned above there are also plenty of deep-voiced elves, dwarves with higher-pitched voices and so on.

IMO the voiced PC is not an obstacle to multiple races and origins.