28 réponses à ce sujet

[TearsoftheForest]

I've just reached the dwarven under grounds, I'm playing a human noble, trying to take a more heroic path on this play through and don't know which noble family to side with.

I thought I knew but now Bhelen seems the good guy. Can someone offer me some key truths on these two parties so I can make a decision?

I'm hearing about bribery accusations and murder on both siders, I don't know whose lying. I know thats part of the fun, but on this I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks

[BoscoBread]

They're both pretty awful - politically speaking. Both are lying. Both are corrupt. There really isn't a lesser of two evils option. Bhelen framed his sibling and murdered his older brother. I'm almost positive Harrowmont killed the king.



So either you want jackass #1 who wants outside trade or jackass #2 who wants to keep things as they are.

[B33ker]

Yup, there's really no "winning" there, no matter who you choose.



I personally usually side with Harrowmont (on my 4th playthrough now and have chosen Bhelen in the past as well).



If you've played the Dwarf Noble origin, you'd probably go for Harrowmont as well, as that origin gives you some insight into whats going on in Orzammar when you first get there.

[Enoch VG]

I played it pragmatically.

Bhelen wanted me to go deliver some illicitly-acquired evidence about Lord H's double-dealing, before he would trust me enough to work with me. Sneaky, sure, but easy enough and not too unreasonable.

Lord H wanted me to enter into gladitorial freakin' combat in his name before I could be trusted enough that he would deign to meet with me. Umm.. What??! Would anybody who doesn't have the "Power Word: Reload" ability even think about agreeing to do that?

[GregorLightbringer]

Play the Dwarven Noble origin and you'll think about KILLING Bhelen. Unless you really did kill Trian. Then it wouldn't matter that much.

[Taleroth]

Enoch VG wrote...

I played it pragmatically.
Bhelen wanted me to go deliver some illicitly-acquired evidence about Lord H's double-dealing, before he would trust me enough to work with me. Sneaky, sure, but easy enough and not too unreasonable.
Lord H wanted me to enter into gladitorial freakin' combat in his name before I could be trusted enough that he would deign to meet with me. Umm.. What??! Would anybody who doesn't have the "Power Word: Reload" ability even think about agreeing to do that?

Bhelen's line requires you to venture into the Deep Roads to accomplish your task.  At least the Proving isn't too the death.

[Enoch VG]

Taleroth wrote...
Bhelen's line requires you to venture into the Deep Roads to accomplish your task.  At least the Proving isn't too the death.

Yeah, but that's a surprise complication that pops up along the way.  It doesn't top the chutzpa inherent in Harrowmount's first task.

[Dark83]

TearsoftheForest wrote...

I've just reached the dwarven under grounds, I'm playing a human noble, trying to take a more heroic path on this play through and don't know which noble family to side with.

I thought I knew but now Bhelen seems the good guy. Can someone offer me some key truths on these two parties so I can make a decision?

I'm hearing about bribery accusations and murder on both siders, I don't know whose lying. I know thats part of the fun, but on this I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks

Bhelen = good ending for the dwarves. New Golden Age, etc.

[freethegoatpeople]

I chose Harrowmont and in the epilogue, it said Orzammer folded cause of Harrowmont's weakness. So yeah, choose Bhelen if you want a happy ending for the dwarves.

[Nowaysis]

I did Bhelen's task, delivering the letters and taking me into the Deep Roads to look for the anvil, but then gave the crown to Harrowmont on a whim when I returned. Would I be correct in assuming that I can do the opposite as well – fight for Harrowmont in The Proving and later give the crown to Bhelen anyway (I'm assuming I have to go into the deep roads and find the anvil either way)?

[Tonya777]

Bhelen killed both of his own brothers , you find that out if you do a dwarven noble origin playthrough

So side with Harrowmont if you want to have a righteous character

Plus free xp for killing Bhelen once its all over with too

Edit : Side with Bhelen the whole time but then when it comes down to it betray him and pick Harrowmont

This maximizes your xp because you get to kill both Bhelen and Harrowmont fanatics in addition to Bhelen himself

Modifié par Tonya777, 03 décembre 2009 - 10:44 .

[HotChix69]

Nowaysis wrote...

I did Bhelen's task, delivering the letters and taking me into the Deep Roads to look for the anvil, but then gave the crown to Harrowmont on a whim when I returned. Would I be correct in assuming that I can do the opposite as well – fight for Harrowmont in The Proving and later give the crown to Bhelen anyway (I'm assuming I have to go into the deep roads and find the anvil either way)?

Yes. I originally went for Harrowmont in the Provings then sided with Bhelen to betray him by planting evidence against Harrowmont. Afterward, both rivals gave me the Deep Roads quest. So you can switch sides back and forth right up until you decide who gets the crown. Be prepared for fanatics of the noble you didn't choose to (random encounter) attack you at least once after the coronation!

[ogreballerina2]

Bhelen is the best choice for a good ending ...( Trade, fighting Darkspawn etc )



Personally I should get the throne and have Bhelen publicly skinned alive....

[Blaisey]

I'm at this part of the game now and making the decision on who to side is really really hard. I'm in such a delimma that I can't decide who to give the crown to....Bhelen is such an ass but Harrowmont makes for a bad ending for the dwarves...bleh....very tough choice.

[rayvioletta]

Bhelen does have his good points. play through as a Dwarf commoner and he's the obvious choice to be King

Harrowmont is fair (Bhelen's evidence against him turns out to be forged) and honest, but ultimately as Bhelen says himself, not a good leader. Bhelen is ruthless and untrustworthy, but also something of a visionary, bringing much needed change and equality to the Dwarves

[Joey Foster]

Really Bhelen isn't a bad choice. Hes a true Dwarf, the dwarf nobles have murdered, planted fake evidence on other houses, framed rivals, bullied and intimidated others into voting for them etc for centuries, its all *fair* dwarf politics.

I've only ever played a Dwarf Noble, Bhelen framed me of my brothers death, Trian.

I was exiled into the deep roads and wrote off the memories and had my house stripped from me, sure I was pretty ticked off but he played the game and won, he deserves to be king.



Also, Bhelen allows change for the best of Orzammar and the Dwarfs, more open trade with the surface dwarfs, the opening and taking back of tunnels and Thaids in the deep roads, pushing dawkspawn back, more rights for castless dwarfs and creating a better community between the different classes.



Harrowmont on the other hand keeps things the same, there either little to no change in Orzammar, there little to no push to take back parts of the deep roads, nothing comes good out of him being king.

[Ponce de Leon]

Don't forget your father's letter if you are a dwarf noble, where he clearly says that Bhelen shouldn't ever get to the throne. And besides, even if you place Harrowmont to the throne as dwarf noble, it says that you should be the next king/queen in line, if something happens to Harrowmont. Or so I understand it...

[sinosleep]

Honestly, unless you play as a dwarf noble, you have absolutely no reason to side with Harrowmont. Just walk around Orzammar and listen to the idle chatter as well as talking to anyone who'll actually speak with you. Support or Bhelen is practically 10 to 1 every where you go. The only people I remember that support Harrowmont are the either family members, already work for him, or are being bribed with holdings. You go to the provings though, and ask around everyone there not working for Harrowmont supports Bhelen, whether they work for him or not. Most of the shop keepers you talk to support Bhelen. If you listen to the criers and the idle chatter you'll hear that Bhelen is marrying a casteless a woman and as such supports expansion of casteless rights. He supports more trade with the outside world. He has the support of most of the warrior caste as well as the entirety of the Legion of Dead. Bhelen is clearly the front runner as far as the bulk of Orzammar is concerned, only the council seems to be dead locked on picking a leader.

The only things he has against him really are his political misdeeds which even Duncan isn't the least bit surprised about when he recruits you as a dwarf noble. He outright says something along the lines of "the brutal intrigue of the dwarven court strikes again."

The first time around even as a dwarf noble I picked Bhelen, every other playthrough I've picked him as well. I have another dwarf noble about 1/3 of the way through the game that will be picking Harrowmont even though I know it's the wrong choice based strictly on revenge. He'll be damning Orzammar in the process but he's so mad he doesn't care.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:06 .

[swk3000]

On a personality basis, Harrowmont is the better person. He's much nicer than Bhelen is. However, he's also rather set in the Dwarven Tradition.



Bhelen is an *ss. There's no getting around that. However, if you're playing a Dwarven Noble and don't take the whole 'I'm going to kill you for this' approach, he'll actually tell you point blank that you didn't have what it took to be a ruler. His exact answer compared politics to war, and mentioned that there are always going to be casualties, no matter what. Bhelen isn't afraid to p*ss people off, and that works in his favor. Hell, the game clearly states that Harrowmont came up with numerous compromises in the Assembly. On the one hand, that says he's good at getting people to agree, but it also means that he's afraid to say, 'No, we need it to be this way, and you can go to hell.'



Personally, I'd rather have an *ss of a ruler who isn't afraid to defy tradition, as opposed to a wishy-washy king who can't make up his own mind.

[TheRealIncarnal]

So you would rather have a Stalin over a Charlemagne?

[Ponce de Leon]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...

So you would rather have a Stalin over a Charlemagne?

Well, games do not affect reality. It would be of course far more difficult to give the title to someone in real life.

[westiex9]

Bear in mind if you side with harrowmont a rather big choice later in the dwarf quest(not to give it away) will affect how effective harrowmont is as king in the end. That said unless your a dwarf noble bhelen is politically always the better king.

[Ponce de Leon]

westiex9 wrote...

Bear in mind if you side with harrowmont a rather big choice later in the dwarf quest(not to give it away) will affect how effective harrowmont is as king in the end. That said unless your a dwarf noble bhelen is politically always the better king.

With my dwarf noble, I still got the same message at the ending on how well would Harrowmont rule. Did I miss something big?

[Tew2213]

So my theory about the 2 Dwarven Nobles is this... based off of my Dwarven knowledge. Harrowmont seems to be the "Just" & favored of the "old ways". Where as Behlen is about "change" and being like a past Paragon "forget name but if you read the books in his family house it mentions the guy." In short dictatorship like a Napolian. As it is said, Behlen knows how to play the political game. Wrong or right is your choice to decide. I know dwarfs to be about honor, war like, not compasionate (shows weakness), blunt, direct. In the game the Nobles seem to play politics via payoffs, bribes and popular vote. It is this that makes me think Behlen seems to be the better choice, though I personally do not agree with it. I have to finish my dwarven noble chick "almost done" maybe I can change things with her path.

[interesting03]

dark-lauron wrote...

With my dwarf noble, I still got the same message at the ending on how well would Harrowmont rule. Did I miss something big?

Preserve the anvil and you'll get a rather different Harrowmont ending.

Anyway, both successors were created to represent the origins. The Dwarf Commoner will naturally choose Bhelen and the Dwarf Noble will naturally choose Harrowmont. There is enough evidence to support the opposite, however most Dwarf Commoners aren't going to betray their sister and Bhelen for Harrowmont and most Dwarf Nobles aren't going to dishonour the memory of their father by picking Bhelen.

Modifié par interesting03, 21 décembre 2009 - 05:17 .