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Guys, you're being a little unreasonable now.


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#201
Lendorien

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Just a comment...

"Clarifying" a pile of dog dung might just reveal that the dog has worms. Just saying.

I do not think it's unreasonable for people to hold Bioware to the expectations THEY created in numerous interviews where they talked about the ending and how player choice would affect it.  In essence, they lied. Clarifying the ending doesn't fix the fact that they lied to their consumers, intentionally or not. Nor does it give the consumers what Bioware promised in those interviews.

I think that as a consumer I have every right to be dissatisfied with Bioware for refusing to give me what they promised the game would contain.

Modifié par Lendorien, 06 avril 2012 - 06:53 .


#202
Grimskull89

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Thalorin1919 wrote...



You cannot change the ENTIRE ending to a game. You know how much money and time that would cost? It would also discount the endings of before - endings a group of people liked - while also having to keep the story jointed with the past events of the game, particularly matters involving the Crucible, the Citadel, the Illusive Man, and the whole motivation of going to Earth in the first place.


/rant

See that bold part above in your comment? the current ending failed to do this.

War Assets that barely effect seconds of cutscenes. Seconds. And no cutscenes that feature anything any achievements you accomplished during the game.

Everything before Starchild was ok, everything during and after talking to Starchild is a complete disconnect from almost everything, everything in the game. I would have been happy wtih Shepard dying with Anderson, the Crucible destroying reapers etc.

Hell the current ending also doesn't make sense with the ending of ME1. If the Starchild controls the reapers, and the Citadel is part of him --- why are the keepers necessary in activating the Citadel? Seriously... PLOTHOLES.

#203
Cyren

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Grimskull89 wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...



You cannot change the ENTIRE ending to a game. You know how much money and time that would cost? It would also discount the endings of before - endings a group of people liked - while also having to keep the story jointed with the past events of the game, particularly matters involving the Crucible, the Citadel, the Illusive Man, and the whole motivation of going to Earth in the first place.


/rant

See that bold part above in your comment? the current ending failed to do this.

War Assets that barely effect seconds of cutscenes. Seconds. And no cutscenes that feature anything any achievements you accomplished during the game.

Everything before Starchild was ok, everything during and after talking to Starchild is a complete disconnect from almost everything, everything in the game. I would have been happy wtih Shepard dying with Anderson, the Crucible destroying reapers etc.

Hell the current ending also doesn't make sense with the ending of ME1. If the Starchild controls the reapers, and the Citadel is part of him --- why are the keepers necessary in activating the Citadel? Seriously... PLOTHOLES.


Well ranted.

The ending doesn't have to change in it's entirety, it needs to be tweaker rather badly.
There are various plotholes and inconsitencies in the entire Starchild conversation and his explanation. Also if you got the Quarians and the Geth to work together, his entire explanation to the 'solution' is BS.
As for those who say that he was right and the Geth rebelled, you aren't paying attention or skipped a mission or two. The Geth were forced to protect themselves when the Quarians began attacking and killing them. That isn't rebellion, that's self defence.

Another thing, if he was the Catelyst and the Catelyst is the Citadel, then how come he didn't know about the Conduit? And if he did know about the Conduit, then why didn't he tell the Reapers about it?
And my personal favorite; Mass Relays explosion? Didn't one of them alone wipe out an entire Solar System back in Arrival? So how come the entire galaxy and it's civilizations are still standing. Yeaaaaah, that doesn't work.

So yes they could try to reason it away with the extended Cut, but the chance that it'll blow up in their faces will be huge. And how exactly does asking and demanding for a tweaked ending, a better one at that, make us unreasonable?
This is about more then closure, this is about a story that deserves a decent ending. It shouldn't go out with a hiss, but with a bang. Doesn't all of us deserve that, after playing days of Mass Effect?

#204
Tony208

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You wanted closure, you're getting it, and now the rest of us are unreasonable all of a sudden.

Another "I got what I wanted" thread.

Modifié par Tony208, 06 avril 2012 - 10:58 .


#205
daecath

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It's simple. The ending is broken. I won't support any ending with the starbrat. The inclusion of that one element is an example of bad writing that doesn't do justice to the rest of the series, and no amount of expansion will change that fact.

#206
DJBare

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thinicer wrote...

Ville L wrote...
I'm calm, but I still have my right so say that explaining garbage doesn't make it smell less.

Garbage or not, it's the ending so it's time to just let it go and accept it.

And will you accept it the next time they do it?
As far as I'm concerned they have got until summer, if I'm not satisfied then I take my custom somewhere else, no offense to Bioware but I'm not a fan, I'm a consumer of entertainment.

#207
earthonline

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 for reference, here are the game's current endings:
ME3 Endings List

#208
MicMaky

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The only reason it is free is because it will require very little to make it, they will get one voice actor and just make up a few animations and also no "clarification" can fix this mess/

#209
Guest_OrangeLazarus86_*

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No. Keep pressure on them. It's not the majority wanted. A new ending, not polish for their turd.

#210
Relwyn

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Cypher61 wrote...

Agree with you. I was really surprised they made this free for everyone. Great move on Bioware's part. People who are continuing to complain after this.....just stop.


1) You were surprised? You do realize that had they charged for this, they would have committed PR-suicide, right? Effectively hurting their company's good name (or whatever's left of it) with a stain that would be incredibly hard to wash off.

2) Actually people have every right to complain, from what we can gather from the announcement, they can make 3 extra cutscenes and they'd have "kept their promise", or so they would think.

3) people have every right to take whatever they say with a fistful of salt considering they have already lied about their product before the game was released. To be skeptical and say that "eh...you want to polish a turd...but it'll still be a turd damnit" is nothing but natural. Bioware can claim that they've "listened" to their fans all they want, but their work will eventually speak for itself. 

We'll for now have to wait and see, but I'm fully within my rights to call bull**** and be skeptical as hell on their latest "assurances", considering what they've said before about their game and what the end result was. Why should I settle for anything less than what they've promised pre-release? Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Eh...<_<

Modifié par Relwyn, 06 avril 2012 - 11:21 .


#211
TweedleDee66

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Thalorin1919 wrote...

I really don't think you guys get it.

You cannot change the ENTIRE ending to a game. You know how much money and time that would cost? It would also discount the endings of before - endings a group of people liked - while also having to keep the story jointed with the past events of the game, particularly matters involving the Crucible, the Citadel, the Illusive Man, and the whole motivation of going to Earth in the first place.

What you guys are "demanding" for is unreasonable. You should take what you get and I'm surprised Bioware is even doing this - FREE DLC that will give closure, epilogue, and more cinematic scenes to the player.

Jesus Christ this is pathetic.


It is actually quite simple from a download point of view. As for the money, what do you think they took in from all the ME3 games that were sold?

If you use the indoctrination theory (feasible and realistic idea with merit) then in 2 versions Shepard is dead and you continue the mission as Anderson and either your squad mates you took or two of the military fighters we saw in London like that British sniper (forgot his name). this new squad gose up to the Citadel and activates the Crucible thing and destroys the Reapers.

If Shepard lived then he/she can finish the mission either alone, with Anderson, or your squad. In this version you might actually have various choices on how to stop the Reapers.

A paragon choice would be to destroy them.
A renegade choice would be to control them.
(funny how in the game you don’t even get a paragon or renegade choice unlike the previous games)

From there you go into the actual ending of the game where you get an epilogue ending the story perhaps a bit like how Dragon Age Origins ended where Shepard talks to all the surviving friends and crew before meeting up with their love interest to end the story properly.

It is really that simple and reasonable. But nope, we get some filler stuff that will try and explain the craptacular ending of the game. They wont even try and do something like what I came up with in minutes, from a dialog with someone about a week ago.

The resolution with TIM could be easily (and should be) handled by a download story. Would he be trying to rebuild Cerberus somehow? Could you get him to repent somehow or just go renegade and kill him?

Oh and take what we get? Seriously? Games cost to much these days to waste on some insulting joke of an end that we got with ME3. Plot holes aside, it fails to come close to the ending of ME1 or ME2 and this is the end of the trilogy. You don’t end a epic story with unresolved questions and with a huge cliffhanger ending leaving the player to wonder what happened.

That would be like if Return of the Jedi ended right when Luke is getting electrocuted by the Emperor as Vader thought about what to do and then suddenly we get random scenes showing the Death Star blowing up and Han and Lea on Bespin with Chewie holding Vader’s helmet. Then months later Lucas release a final cut version that adds some extra content and an epilogue of sorts to “explain” what the hell happened. Wonder how many Star Wars fans would have “taken what they got” with that. This is no different.

#212
Hihoshi101

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RPG fans are scary... Self included for a time... Now I have hope... I will be waiting and watching

#213
jeff359

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I'm going to wait to see what the extended cut brings to the table but, I've learned you can't trust them.

#214
Acidrain92

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*insert crappy metaphor explaining why clarification doesnt work here*

in all seriousness though, this DLC has a huge chance of getting rid of all of the plotholes that we had problems with in the first place before everybody became obsessed with starchild.

Joker's escape and the Normandy Crash will make sense. The Mass Relays exploding will make sense. The remaining alien races will be given closure as to how they will survive without mass relays. there could be more LI closure. Shepard will meet up with his crew if he survived, voice actors are coming back. It wont be "just a few cutscenes."

at least this all what one can ASSUME what will happen from what the good folks on twitter/bioware are saying.

either way I shall remain optimistic till the end.

#215
AIR MOORE

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Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Hahahaha, EA just crushed the line with that release. Divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book. They're damn good marketers.


This.
Without any substance too.

#216
apieros

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Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Guys, you're being a little unreasonable now.

I think you're wrong. But let's say you're right. Retakers are unreasonable.

It won't matter. Either Bioware's business will be hurt, or it won't.

I think it will. Pissing off a large portion of your customer base has repercussions, and not good ones. They stop spending money on you.

And you (and others like you) hectoring them, belittling them, condescending to them won't magically make them spend more money. So rage if you must, but you're not helping Bioware.

#217
moonlightwolf

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 Explaining something with no narrative coherence doesn't make things better it just adds more layers to the mess. It not unreasonable to ask for the ending to maintain the narrative quality of the rest of the game. They are still pretending that has that quality rather than admitting its a rushed, ill thought out rip of the ending to Deus Ex.

#218
Grudge_NL

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OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

No. Keep pressure on them. It's not the majority wanted. A new ending, not polish for their turd.


What majority ? What statistics proof that the haters are a majority ?

#219
apieros

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Grudge_NL wrote...

What majority ? What statistics proof that the haters are a majority ?

Where's the proof otherwise? (See how easy that was? And how meaningless?)

And what does it matter one way or the other. Suppose Retakers are a strict minority... 49% of the fanbase. Pissing them off, and condescending to them will have repercussions. Would it really make a difference if they were 51%, a strict majority?

Majority/minority is a red herring. It's a straw anti-Retakers grasp at to try and say "None of this anger matters. YOU don't matter."

Actions have consequences. And anti-Retakers efforts to personally insult each and every Retaker, individually and en masse, only hurts Bioware. If you anti-Retakers loved Bioware as much as you claim, you'd be striving to mend the fanbase, not demean other fans, thus splitting it further.

Modifié par apieros, 06 avril 2012 - 01:09 .


#220
EvilMind

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Grudge_NL wrote...

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

No. Keep pressure on them. It's not the majority wanted. A new ending, not polish for their turd.


What majority ? What statistics proof that the haters are a majority ?


For starters 
http://social.biowar...08/polls/31420/ 

#221
OriginalTibs

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The point is: Aesthetics must guide Art, not Marketing.

#222
OriginalTibs

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Grudge_NL wrote...

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

No. Keep pressure on them. It's not the majority wanted. A new ending, not polish for their turd.


What majority ? What statistics proof that the haters are a majority ?


Statistics, by their nature, cannot prove anything. Statistics only indicate a probability.

#223
PsyrenY

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BadlyBrowned wrote...

krukow wrote...

Agreed. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and see what details emerge. Fer frack's sake, this DLC is FREE! They're trying, let's be appreciative!


Imo, hard to give the benefit of the doubt when I was burned the first time.


Bet you saved the Rachni Queen though.

#224
NReed106

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I think it is more disappointment and doubt that BW will ever make anything good with the current ending, it seems downright impossible

#225
Renew81

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I dont see the point in sitting back and relax
all i know is new dlc will come out that in some way will extend / clarify
the ending how they are going to do this however is unknown and until
its actually downloaded and i have seen / played it i cannot and will not
relax , not because iam a whiner , but because i do and still care , off course
i can only hope that this dlc wll be enough for me and everyone else but
yeah.. "godchild" still being in it doesnt give me much hope.

so in short , no i will not relax and if thats unreasonable then thats the
corner you can place me in , i know better then that.