229 réponses à ce sujet

[jtrook]

The theme I always got from Mass Effect was that you always sacrificed other things. People, resources. alliances. Shepard in a sense never really sacrificed himself/herself throughout the series. It always came down to should I let choice B die/explode/get taken so choice A can keep going. The endings came as a shock because that was the first time Shepard had really made a personal sacrifice. I think in the end if the player worked hard enough, Shepard should live but certain people close to him should die(crew, NPC's etc.) That way it is not a YEAH WE WON moment but a"They sacrificed so the galaxy could continue on." just my 2 cents

[InvincibleHero]

PiEman wrote...

Slash1667 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Bump, cuz now its truer than ever. A significant chunk of pro-Disney enders are masking themselves under the Retake movement. Why would you ever want a super happy ending to Mass Effect?!

Quick. Name five current active duty military members that you know who signed up to the military so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

I'll wait......

Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

I'm not a part of any movement. However I did start with ME and stuck with it believing that there was a path to Shepard's survival. No amount of mockery from COD lames is going to make me feel ashamed about that. Shepard has loved ones praying she'll come back alive. Had I known that was deliberately made impossible I would never have started this series.

Mind if I rephrase that slightly?

Name 5 current Military members or First Responders (police, fire, etc...) that you know who signed up so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

Good point.


On the police one, I believe most badges say something like "Protect and Serve" not "At Least I Can Die in an Explosion".

And yet like Shepard they go and do their job knowing it may require the ultimate sacrifice. Shepard knows he might not have a happy ending but many players expect one.

[Slash1667]

InvincibleHero wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Slash1667 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Bump, cuz now its truer than ever. A significant chunk of pro-Disney enders are masking themselves under the Retake movement. Why would you ever want a super happy ending to Mass Effect?!

Quick. Name five current active duty military members that you know who signed up to the military so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

I'll wait......

Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

I'm not a part of any movement. However I did start with ME and stuck with it believing that there was a path to Shepard's survival. No amount of mockery from COD lames is going to make me feel ashamed about that. Shepard has loved ones praying she'll come back alive. Had I known that was deliberately made impossible I would never have started this series.

Mind if I rephrase that slightly?

Name 5 current Military members or First Responders (police, fire, etc...) that you know who signed up so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

Good point.


On the police one, I believe most badges say something like "Protect and Serve" not "At Least I Can Die in an Explosion".

And yet like Shepard they go and do their job knowing it may require the ultimate sacrifice. Shepard knows he might not have a happy ending but many players expect one.

Yes Shepard know he MIGHT not have a happy ending which means that he might very well have one. That's all most of us want. We want BOTH extremes and a couple inbetween depending on things you did or didn't do in game.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

I feel sorry for anyone who feels thier ending would be cheapened by someone else's Shepard having the option to survive. 

[MsKlaussen]

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

What you just said means nothing to me. I don't know what metagaming means.

As to forcing a happy ending on anybody, I don't know where you're getting that from. This game was supposedly capable of concluding in any of several ways. I started it under the assumption that ONE of those ways was going to encompass Shepard's survival. The actual defeat of the Reapers with someone of significance, meaning Shepard and a few others, moving on to life after seemingly certain annihilation.

If you are somehow able to make that one possibility out of several a compulsory happy ending, then I don't know what to tell you. I only know that there is nothing awesome about an honorable death. Nobody with something to live for picks up a gun and goes looking for one.

And it's a pretty sad state of affairs when the concept of people actually returning from a war alive in a story is something to be disgusted by.

[MsKlaussen]

InvincibleHero wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Slash1667 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Bump, cuz now its truer than ever. A significant chunk of pro-Disney enders are masking themselves under the Retake movement. Why would you ever want a super happy ending to Mass Effect?!

Quick. Name five current active duty military members that you know who signed up to the military so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

I'll wait......

Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

I'm not a part of any movement. However I did start with ME and stuck with it believing that there was a path to Shepard's survival. No amount of mockery from COD lames is going to make me feel ashamed about that. Shepard has loved ones praying she'll come back alive. Had I known that was deliberately made impossible I would never have started this series.

Mind if I rephrase that slightly?

Name 5 current Military members or First Responders (police, fire, etc...) that you know who signed up so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

Good point.


On the police one, I believe most badges say something like "Protect and Serve" not "At Least I Can Die in an Explosion".

And yet like Shepard they go and do their job knowing it may require the ultimate sacrifice. Shepard knows he might not have a happy ending but many players expect one.

No, we just don't dance around giddy and touching ourselves when the ultimate sacrifice is made by someone, and would like to know that it was not a foredrawn conclusion that it would have to be.

[RyanPun1991]

Have always wanted one of the endings to be a happy ending.
Call it disney or mainstream or whatever you want, happy endings are still awesome in my opinion

[LegendaryBlade]

Because removing the chance for us to have even a remotely positive ending is bull****.

A lot of players, like myself, are completionists. When we do literally.everything in the game, work towards the best ending, and make sure we're prepared to the maximum it's a kick in the pants to get an identical ending to someone who did just above the bare minimum, just enough to get the cheering soldiers scene.

I don't even really want a happy ending, i'm find with Bioware thinking Grimdark = Artistic like every other twelve year old. I see where people are coming from though, some people worked hard and put a lot of time in to these games. The same people who made sure everybody survived the suicide mission. There's no equivilant to that here at all, there's no reward for going the extra mile.

[Buffy-Summers]

I absolutely want a happy ending

Whats wrong with happiness?

Is bitter the new "in" thing

Should vader win?

Should the shark eat everyone?

Should the blight win?

Come on people its a game, most people want a happy ending, war or no war.

I proudly admit. I wont give Bioware another dime because of how they ended ME3.

Not one red cent.

[AlanC9]

MsKlaussen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

What you just said means nothing to me. I don't know what metagaming means.

It's one of those terms RPG players toss about a lot. Essentially, it means making certain role-playing choice because you're trying to make the game perform some function, rather than making those choices because that's what your character would do. So, making Shepard screw up because you want to get the unhappy ending is metagaming.

It's generally used to mean that someone's a bad RPG player-- though in all honesty everyone engages in this behavior to some extent after the fourth or fifth playthrough.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[mcsupersport]

1) Thane dead.
2) Mordin dead.
3) Virmire casualty.
4) Billions of humans dead/husked.
5) Billions of Asari dead/husked.
7) Billions of Turians dead/husked.
8) Elcor almost extinct.
9) Hanar?? Drell?? possible extinct.
10) Anderson dead.
11) Edi possibly dead.
12) Geth, Quarians or Both dead.
13) All major trade cut off, Relays destroyed.
14) Legion or Tali dead or both....
15) Many others can die depending on choices, ie, Virmire survivor, Wrex, Kelly, and Miranda....
16) Shepard survives and gets with his LI, and this is a happy ending??? You have weird ideas of happy endings people.

[Sable Phoenix]

I absolutely want a happy ending (as happy as could be possible with hundreds of millions of humans, turians, and asari being slaughtered before you get there). I also want an ending of complete and utter failure, where everyone dies and the Reapers harvest the whole galaxy. I want endings for many points in between those two extremes.

So yeah. Your characterization, OP, is specious and incomplete.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

I feel sorry for anyone who feels thier ending would be cheapened by someone else's Shepard having the option to survive. 

If you've got a way for their Shepards to have the option without my Shepards having it, I'm listening. If Bio wants to release a DLC with only a happy ending in the package, that works fine for me. But I haven't heard that's going to happen.

And if Shepard only survives in the red ending, that's fine too.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 avril 2012 - 06:23 .

[MsKlaussen]

Slash1667 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

OutlawTorn6806 wrote...

Bump, cuz now its truer than ever. A significant chunk of pro-Disney enders are masking themselves under the Retake movement. Why would you ever want a super happy ending to Mass Effect?!

Quick. Name five current active duty military members that you know who signed up to the military so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

I'll wait......

Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

I'm not a part of any movement. However I did start with ME and stuck with it believing that there was a path to Shepard's survival. No amount of mockery from COD lames is going to make me feel ashamed about that. Shepard has loved ones praying she'll come back alive. Had I known that was deliberately made impossible I would never have started this series.

Mind if I rephrase that slightly?

Name 5 current Military members or First Responders (police, fire, etc...) that you know who signed up so they could achieve the worst ending possible...

Absolutely no I didn't mind. It applies to them too. I mentioned military because this game involves it and because the concept of soldiers returning alive is very close to home for me. No pun intended.

Firemen, police, etc. go out every day knowing they may not come back. But they certainly plan to do so. Whether they would still go if they KNEW they weren't coming back is I guess dependent on them. But there can be no misconception about how that affects those who wait for them.

I lack a certain ability to turn that on and off depending on circumstances. Life is never not the goal.

[Sabariel]

ME2 was about a suicide mission. Suicide missions usually don't have happy endings. However, it was completely possible for the suicide mission to have a happy ending. "A happy ending isn't possible because it's a big bad war" holds no water with me.

However, I didn't wish for the happy ending to be the only ending. I thought there would be endings that ranged from "Oh damn, we're screwed. Reapers win. Sob." to "Happy. Shepard retires and starts up a varren farm with their LI/best friend/Kai Leng's mum".

ALSO, even if there was a "happy ending" where Shepard retires and lives on a farm with Kai Leng's mum, it would still have a bitter note to it, it wouldn't be all rainbows and kittens, because Reaper-attacked planets would still be devastated and certain characters would still be dead.

Modifié par Sabariel, 08 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[DeinonSlayer]

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

What you just said means nothing to me. I don't know what metagaming means.

It's one of those terms RPG players toss about a lot. Essentially, it means making game choice because you're trying to make the game perform some function, rather than making those choices because that's what your character would do.. So, making Shepard screw up because you want to get  the unhappy ending is metagaming.

It's generally used to mean that someone's a bad RPG player-- though in all honesty everyone engages in this behavior to some extent after the fourth or fifth playthrough.

It took me a while to understand where you were coming from, Alan, but now I absolutely agree with you. Everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a "happy ending." I think outcomes should exist where Shepard reunites with his/her love interest and crew, but there should be a certain price for it. If we're going off of the red ending where Shepard lives at present, that price would be the extermination of all synthetic life. Question is, is that a price people are willing to pay?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[MsKlaussen]

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

What you just said means nothing to me. I don't know what metagaming means.

It's one of those terms RPG players toss about a lot. Essentially, it means making certain role-playing choice because you're trying to make the game perform some function, rather than making those choices because that's what your character would do. So, making Shepard screw up because you want to get the unhappy ending is metagaming.

It's generally used to mean that someone's a bad RPG player-- though in all honesty everyone engages in this behavior to some extent after the fourth or fifth playthrough.

OIC. Well I guess if there were three stupid variations of survival that would be just as lame. But there was no problem with this in ME2. You could very well have everyone live. Or any number of people might not make it, including Shepard, and it was all based on choices and execution of the missions. ME3 was nothing like that, and to even get a crumb in the way of something positive you literally had to be some sort of seer that could divine every single right choice for three games and then you STILL couldn't do it without multiplayer. None of that was understood,  because it was expressly denied that these were the reality.

Why get everyone emotionally involved in the characters then? Why even cultivate relationships and in fact, love affairs that will never be realized? It comes off as a huge goof and a waste of time. 

Ther are no "happy endings" in war. Plenty of people died in this game that we care about. Where do people get "Disneyland" from? The game sucks if anybody we spent 6 years getting to know actually survives? That's poo.

[PiEman]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

I feel sorry for anyone who feels thier ending would be cheapened by someone else's Shepard having the option to survive. 

If you've got a way for their Shepards to have the option without my Shepards having it, I'm listening. If Bio wants to release a DLC with only a happy ending in the package, that works fine for me. But I haven't heard that's going to happen.

And if Shepard only survives in the red ending, that's fine too.

Again, you keep bringing this up while ignoring the fact that your absolutism means that I have to accept what you want for your Shepard, but you refuse to have even the possibility of me having what I was promised.

[InvincibleHero]

MsKlaussen wrote...

No, we just don't dance around giddy and touching ourselves when the ultimate sacrifice is made by someone, and would like to know that it was not a foredrawn conclusion that it would have to be.

Lose the insults next time you will be reported.

You insult the 911 responders they knew they had a high chance of not coming back. They went in. Heroes one and all.

You are grousing because BW decided there is no happy ending (in agreement with your definition) for a character they created. It is like in the movies a person chooses to sacrifice for the greater good. Shepard has accepted that and such dialog is througout the series.

Did you digest the opening speech everyone has to be willing to die to survive? The man saying it was Shepard.

I would have liked a happier ending, but I am mature enough to accept the options BW gave for the game because it is their story and their vision not my dream simulator. it is a game in their world and for entertainment. Maybe you don't like that fine but that is the reality of the situation.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

I feel sorry for anyone who feels thier ending would be cheapened by someone else's Shepard having the option to survive. 

If you've got a way for their Shepards to have the option without my Shepards having it, I'm listening. If Bio wants to release a DLC with only a happy ending in the package, that works fine for me. But I haven't heard that's going to happen.

And if Shepard only survives in the red ending, that's fine too.

Again, why is Shepard's survival automatically a "happy" ending rather than a "bittersweet" ending?   I do't think I have to mention again the number of people, including friends of Shepards who have already died at this point.  One of who dies mere minutes before the ending.  Unicorns went extinct the moment Reapers hit Earth.  Rainbows got sucked into the multicolored endings and haven't been seen since.

As to sacrfice, I again repeat Dragon Age Origins.  The Warden can die.  Loghain can die, Allistair can die.  Or you can risk some blood magic Dark Ritual which will have unknown long term consequences for Thedas.  CHoices, chocies everywhere.  Plenty for everyone to choose from!

[InvincibleHero]

iakus wrote...

Again, why is Shepard's survival automatically a "happy" ending rather than a "bittersweet" ending?   I do't think I have to mention again the number of people, including friends of Shepards who have already died at this point.  One of who dies mere minutes before the ending.  Unicorns went extinct the moment Reapers hit Earth.  Rainbows got sucked into the multicolored endings and haven't been seen since.

As to sacrfice, I again repeat Dragon Age Origins.  The Warden can die.  Loghain can die, Allistair can die.  Or you can risk some blood magic Dark Ritual which will have unknown long term consequences for Thedas.  CHoices, chocies everywhere.  Plenty for everyone to choose from!

Here's a problem people don't care if Earth burns and every planet because it isn't a real game all they want is Shepard with crew/LI. If there was an option of let reapers win and escape to have your blue or bubble babies and eventually die many would take that. Yet the same people hate destroying the geth go figure.

Personally if I was Shepard I would sacrifice my life and that of the crew or even the entire military force to ensure most life survives the reaapers and the threat is ended. I would not sacrifice Earth just so I could live with my LI as many suggested.

I never chose my warden to sacrifice himself/herself because the options were presented to you beforehand. I only did them all to get the achievements. Didn't even keep a final state on the sacrifice warden just reloaded from the save before and replayed that bit. If I were the warden dark ritual for me all the way. It was an easy out. If Morrigan was not lying it could mean a return of a pure old god returned. It may also mean the survivng archdemons can also be purified. It could be good or bad. If she is lying trying to control an evil godlike being will probably not work out well for her.

[Slash1667]

InvincibleHero wrote...

You insult the 911 responders they knew they had a high chance of not coming back. They went in. Heroes one and all.

You are grousing because BW decided there is no happy ending (in agreement with your definition) for a character they created. It is like in the movies a person chooses to sacrifice for the greater good. Shepard has accepted that and such dialog is througout the series.

Did you digest the opening speech everyone has to be willing to die to survive? The man saying it was Shepard.

I would have liked a happier ending, but I am mature enough to accept the options BW gave for the game because it is their story and their vision not my dream simulator. it is a game in their world and for entertainment. Maybe you don't like that fine but that is the reality of the situation.

We aren't insulting first responders or military (retired Air Force btw). We know they put themselves knowingly in harms way for our benefit. I appreciate and respect each and every one of them.

Yes in movies characters choose to sacrifice themselves for the greater good and honestly I find them damn depressing and don't normally see them. However, Mass Effect has never been about "Shepard's gonna die and you have no choice in the matter".

I would love a happier OPTION for an ending. I also am mature enough acknowledge the options BW gave us. I'm also old enough to know that a company needs to listen to and acknowledge it's customers. It seems that game developers are loseing sight of customer service. If toward the middle or end of March EA/Bioware would have flat out said "This is what we put out. This is what you are getting." I would have been fine with it. They didn't do that. All they did was bunker down and feed the comunity PR speak. Leaving people up in the air is not a good way to conduct business, not art but business.

Sorry about that rant.

[InvincibleHero]

Slash1667 wrote...

We aren't insulting first responders or military (retired Air Force btw). We know they put themselves knowingly in harms way for our benefit. I appreciate and respect each and every one of them.

Yes in movies characters choose to sacrifice themselves for the greater good and honestly I find them damn depressing and don't normally see them. However, Mass Effect has never been about "Shepard's gonna die and you have no choice in the matter".

I would love a happier OPTION for an ending. I also am mature enough acknowledge the options BW gave us. I'm also old enough to know that a company needs to listen to and acknowledge it's customers. It seems that game developers are loseing sight of customer service. If toward the middle or end of March EA/Bioware would have flat out said "This is what we put out. This is what you are getting." I would have been fine with it. They didn't do that. All they did was bunker down and feed the comunity PR speak. Leaving people up in the air is not a good way to conduct business, not art but business.

Sorry about that rant.

No need to apologize you are being reasonable. It was mainly at the person who responded to my post in a crass manner.

I see it different Shepard is resigned to sacrifice to save everyone just he came out aces the first two games. However, there is a Shepard lives option and I am OK with that. I do believe canon will be Shepard lives but they cannot just say that.

I just don't get bothered with PR speak, because actions speak louder than words. they are spending months making free patches/dlc to address this at the expense of paid DLC that would earn them money. They are doing a great deal. Maybe people don't get the exact thing they are looking for, but it is something to be appreciative of and give them a chance to see what they do.

[Slash1667]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Slash1667 wrote...

We aren't insulting first responders or military (retired Air Force btw). We know they put themselves knowingly in harms way for our benefit. I appreciate and respect each and every one of them.

Yes in movies characters choose to sacrifice themselves for the greater good and honestly I find them damn depressing and don't normally see them. However, Mass Effect has never been about "Shepard's gonna die and you have no choice in the matter".

I would love a happier OPTION for an ending. I also am mature enough acknowledge the options BW gave us. I'm also old enough to know that a company needs to listen to and acknowledge it's customers. It seems that game developers are loseing sight of customer service. If toward the middle or end of March EA/Bioware would have flat out said "This is what we put out. This is what you are getting." I would have been fine with it. They didn't do that. All they did was bunker down and feed the comunity PR speak. Leaving people up in the air is not a good way to conduct business, not art but business.

Sorry about that rant.

No need to apologize you are being reasonable. It was mainly at the person who responded to my post in a crass manner.

I see it different Shepard is resigned to sacrifice to save everyone just he came out aces the first two games. However, there is a Shepard lives option and I am OK with that. I do believe canon will be Shepard lives but they cannot just say that.

I just don't get bothered with PR speak, because actions speak louder than words. they are spending months making free patches/dlc to address this at the expense of paid DLC that would earn them money. They are doing a great deal. Maybe people don't get the exact thing they are looking for, but it is something to be appreciative of and give them a chance to see what they do.

Don't get me wrong. Now that they are responding I have less of a problem with Bioware as a company. I still have a problem with the  game but that's just me. I appreciate that they are working on a free DLC and I truely hope that they can appease more people than they ****** off with it.

Modifié par Slash1667, 08 avril 2012 - 07:31 .

[Jack Mackerel]

What the Hell is so wrong with happy endings? I'm tired of this grimderp = better bull**** populating the media.

Just because your life sucks and is emo doesn't mean an ending that doesn't suck up to your stupid, know-it-all viewpoint isn't somehow realistic.