229 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

Personally I've never denied that I want an option for a relatively happy ending - Shepard and crew/LI should survive and reunite in at least 1 of the supposed 17 endings. We've had enough people die (squadmembers and face/nameless alike) and dozens of planets are in ruins, there's no need to try and add some drama by having Shepard sacrifice himself in all of the endings.

And saying EVERY single one of the endings should be dark and Shepard should always sacrifice himself because that somehow makes the ending better is just plain ridiculous.

[Slash1667]

Jack Mackerel wrote...

What the Hell is so wrong with happy endings? I'm tired of this grimderp = better bull**** populating the media.

Just because your life sucks and is emo doesn't mean an ending that doesn't suck up to your stupid, know-it-all viewpoint isn't somehow realistic.

No need for that kind of responce. Attacks aren't needed.

[Exeider]

Amioran wrote...

Diana Kingston wrote...

Here's what I don't understand:

Is there any reason these things need to be mutually exclusive, to the point where people are organizing into factions?

The whole point of multiple endings is that you don't need to force all players to conform to a single standardized conclusion. Ideally, you could determine the type of ending you get based on how you played the trilogy - so, for example, Shepard and Liara can only have their Blue Kids ending if you never cheated on her. If you prefer a more somber and bittersweet ending, you can have that too. Perhaps you'd need a bit of meta-gaming to get the circumstances right, but if the Extended Cut allows clearer representation of player choice... well, why can't enough variations be produced to cover as many bases as possible? You want a happy ending? Work for it. You're okay with something darker? Make some harsh sacrifices and see what happens.

All good and fine (in a sense) but do you imagine how much work on the creator's end that would imply? Just try to understand it.

And anyway there will always be someone not pleased just because the other option exists. Some people simply want things to be as they like and they don't care at all about the rest. Sad, but true.

To not to talk about the fact that in this way you create a thing only to please audience that for the customer can seem a good thing, but it's not at all for what it concerns freedom of experssion and art.

i think people here appreciate the implications of asking for multiple endings, different endings and the work involved in creating them. However I will respond to that with this:

If the creator's were not willing to accep the consequences of actually delivering the true complexity of 16 different endings, with equal range and scope, then they should not have promised us this.

Seems simple enough, if they weren't sure they could do it, then they should of not promised it.

-Æ

[abaris]

Exeider wrote...


If the creator's were not willing to accep the consequences of actually delivering the true complexity of 16 different endings, with equal range and scope, then they should not have promised us this.

Seems simple enough, if they weren't sure they could do it, then they should of not promised it.

-Æ

Exactly.

As for me it would have been this:

1) You have a relatively happy ending depending on your choices and actions - still, the war rages on, probably for cneturies, cause this is the realistic thing to happen with a conflict that large.
2) You have an ending where you have to sacrifice part of your alliance and maybe yourself, again depending on your choices and actions - and the war rages on.
3) You screwed up your choices so badly that only the ultimate sacrifice can turn things around - that would be the closest to the current endings.

[kalle90]

Diana Kingston wrote...

Here's what I don't understand:

Is there any reason these things need to be mutually exclusive, to the point where people are organizing into factions?

I guess the reason is emphasis. Bioware could put the chances of endings towards happy or sad. Like it's almost impossible to fail suicide mission and very easy to get everyone out as well. I would hate if just an usual playthrough would get me back with LI having babies. That is such a cliche and definitely doesn't fit all the apocalyptic feeling.

IMO it should follow Gaussian curve. Most endings are "bittersweet or mildly bad" and it's really unlikely to get the "happy total victory" or "everyone, including Reapers die"

[sabata2]

http://social.biowar.../index/11162661

That's your answer from me.

[Gaddmeister]

Jessica1995 wrote...

I think a happy ending would be too obvious, but the one thing that beyond supports a happy ending is choice...
the Mass Effect series is well known for choice and how it effects the game. So say if someone played 90% paragon in the game did all the good things, saved everyone, why not have a happy ending?
Why not have a worst case scenario ending? (Reapers win or Reapers lose but everyones dead)

The endings IMO just lacked choice, and Bioware kinda lied about the endings =/

I object to this "do paragon stuff, get a happy ending". I don't say I needed a happy ending, but I wouldn't have objectd one either, as long as it would not be for paragons only.

I played this game about 2/3-3/4 parts renegade and the rest paragon. I played battles ruthless, but I did conversations with squad mates, politicians etc like a normal human being and I played diplomacy with the goal of getting as much allies as possible as that would benefit us all. So being renegade should not automatically lead to failure in the end, just like playing paragon shouldn't automatically lead to a happy ending. That would be too simplistic imo, I would have hated it.

Modifié par Gaddmeister, 08 avril 2012 - 09:33 .

[daecath]

Amioran wrote...

Diana Kingston wrote...

Here's what I don't understand:

Is there any reason these things need to be mutually exclusive, to the point where people are organizing into factions?

The whole point of multiple endings is that you don't need to force all players to conform to a single standardized conclusion. Ideally, you could determine the type of ending you get based on how you played the trilogy - so, for example, Shepard and Liara can only have their Blue Kids ending if you never cheated on her. If you prefer a more somber and bittersweet ending, you can have that too. Perhaps you'd need a bit of meta-gaming to get the circumstances right, but if the Extended Cut allows clearer representation of player choice... well, why can't enough variations be produced to cover as many bases as possible? You want a happy ending? Work for it. You're okay with something darker? Make some harsh sacrifices and see what happens.

All good and fine (in a sense) but do you imagine how much work on the creator's end that would imply? Just try to understand it.

Yeah, that would be way too much work. They shouldn't have to work that hard. In fact, you know, it's a lot of work to make sure that a product goes out without bugs. They should just not bother. People will find them eventually and then they can fix them. And you know, trying to program a system that allows a character to react intelligently and somewhat autonamously has got to be pretty hard too. So they should just program your enemies to stand there, and not bother shooting anything. Come to think of it, making a realistic looking and moving and sounding human character is hard too, so they should just make every character into a stick figure. Actually, programming a game is just hard period. They shouldn't have to work that hard, so we'll just give them a bunch of money, and they can give us a pretty box with nothing in it next time.

In case it's not perfectly clear, your argument is ridiculous. That's kinda what they're paid to do, difficult or not.

Amioran wrote...
And anyway there will always be someone not pleased just because the other option exists. Some people simply want things to be as they like and they don't care at all about the rest. Sad, but true.

Yes there will be. However, reasonable people will understand that it's impossible to get everything exactly right for every customer, and will therefore think not in terms of specifics, but rather in terms of generics, so that you can get a larger consensus. If your goal is to have 7 different endings, and in ending one Shepard does this, and then TIM says this, then Shepard says this, and then TIM says this, and then Shepard does this, and then... - you will be disappointed. If your goal is to a) have an ending that doesn't introduce a new protagonist in the last 8 minutes of the story; doesn't discount every other bit of the stories in favor of a "plot" (and I use the term loosely) that appears and resolves all in the span of 14 lines of dialogue; and c) offers users a chance to receive endings that are clearly deliniated, and offer a variaty of outcomes, including the happy ending.

To get back to the topic at hand: just because something is "dark" doesn't necessarily mean that is is more profound, Only a thirteen year old kid who liked to wear too much of his mother's eyeliner, would think that.

Amioran wrote...

Not to talk about the fact that in this way you create a thing only to please audience that for the customer can seem a good thing, but it's not at all for what it concerns freedom of experssion and art.

If the cry was for BioWare to produce a script to certain specific specifications, I would agree. All we're doing is reminding them what they've done right, show them what they did in error. That can only serve to benefit the industry,

[Reorte]

Lyme Eilserv wrote...

I alway pictured the "best" end scene with the galaxy in ruins, Shepard uniting with LI and most of the crew. With the Reaper cycle finally broken, "where do we go from here"?

That's what I had hopes I'd be getting from the start (assuming I played the game well enough). Standing victorious in the ruins with (some of) my friends by my side so there's some personal victory in there too for Shepard. There should also be a scene reminding us of the loss, perhaps quick clips reminding us of all the dead Normandy crew and showing us any now-shattered places we knew.

And I didn't romance a character for the inevitable end of that particular story arc to be them plunged into grief. The way that works out without a happyish ending being possible is "We've put in a means to hurt your favourite character." Nice.

[grimkillah]

I find it odd that anyone would object to a happy ending in a game such as Mass Effect, as far as I am concern, ending is whatever people wanted it to be, this is a role playing game and the ending should depend on the person who plays it, and if you want a bittersweet ending, make choices to reflect that, same if you want a happy ending. I wish there were 16 vastly different endings, instead of that tri-colored ending, then the game could cater to majority of gamers, from happy Disney-like ending, to bittersweet, to even a reaper victory.

Modifié par grimkillah, 08 avril 2012 - 09:24 .

[TheGreenAlloy]

AlanC9 wrote...

MsKlaussen wrote...
Oh that's right. Nobody intends to die nor do people who value life find anything "kewl" about death.

Right. That's why adding a happy ending forces the happy ending on every player who isn't either incompetent or deliberately failing because he's metagaming.

At least there's an option, then.

[TheGreenAlloy]

DiE231 wrote...

OP, I'm assuming you actually played the trilogy, so, what did you think of Priority: Tuchanka? It was awesome, wasn't it? All the choices you made throught all 3 games affecting the final outcome and the way the mission plays, amazing stuff.


Priority Rannoch? Same thing.


Now, take a look at Priority: Thessia, Priority: Earth + the ending and tell me whats wrong with them.

Well said!

Priority Tuchanke ended with a bunch of happy Krogans, a bright future for Eve and Wrex, and Vigil's Theme playing in the background. It was beautiful, it was snowing the genophage cure.

Priority: Rannoch ended with my buddy Legion sacrificing himself to give all Geth true AI, Peace between the Geth and the Quarian, a bright future for them both, a happy Tali, and Vigil's theme playing in the background.

I don't have to tell you how Priority: Earth ended, considering we all got the same gorram thing.

[GambitAce88]

InvincibleHero wrote...

GambitAce88 wrote...

I get an ending after playing 38 hours through ME 3, with imports from 1 and 2, that the person playing 12 hours of the game starting with ME3 will get.

I do not understand this rationale at all except in one of selfishness. They paid $60 same as you. You got your unique experiences in the past game and more content in ME3 (both in time and richness of experience) and you also want to give them a worse ending. We deserve no special privilege from playing the previous games as they already delivered on the experience. They have to treat all their customers equally. Players of previous MEs already got their benefits.

Bioware stated that if you do more you will get a better and different ending from those who did less or the bare minimum. My point being from what I said is that they lied to us about it. By doing everything I did and playing the amount of time I did I should not be getting the same ending as someone who barely played the third game.

Modifié par GambitAce88, 08 avril 2012 - 02:24 .

[Blitzaxt]

At least the option to a happy ending should have been there. What i read most are the ''lots of little blue children'' and the ''house on rannoch'' arguments.

Why put all that dialogue in the game and get the players hopes up if these options dont exist in the end? Many problably started planning theyre perfect ending after having finished ME2 (me included) because all the dialogue pointed that it would be possible.

After tuchanka and rannoch i was pretty damn sure that i can and will have my happy ending. Yeah......

My point i guess is that a lot of things pointed toward the possibility of your ''perfect ending'' and all the hope thats been build up got crushed in the last 10minutes.

also: sorry if my english is bad^^

[Blastback]

I'd like to add, that while I want a happy ending, I can and will accept a more tragic bleak one. But it has to be done better than the current one.

[Chakuura]

I want the option of a happy ending, even though I think most of my Shepards would not get it. There is no reason not to have at least one option for it, if you want grim dark endings then go for the ones that are. I like a bittersweet ending as much as the next person and i think it matches the tone of the mass effect series, but I just don't see why so many people are so against the possibility of a good ending.

[Iakus]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Here's a problem people don't care if Earth burns and every planet because it isn't a real game all they want is Shepard with crew/LI. If there was an option of let reapers win and escape to have your blue or bubble babies and eventually die many would take that. Yet the same people hate destroying the geth go figure.

I don't think you give people enough credit.  People care about the fates of the quarians and turians in the Sol system.  You already pointed out people care about the geth.  People care about the tragic stories you overhear on the Citadel.  Not to mention several of the more popular Mass Effect characters unavoidably die over the course of the game.  Some onscreen, some not.  There's a lot of sorrow and bitterness already in Mass Effect 3

And even if you there are people who care for nothing but SHepard and his/her LI of choice,  I say who cares how those players choose to end their games?  It has nothing to do with my Shepard, your Shepard, or anyone else's  Shepards.  This is an rpg, not a narrative-driven action game.  If we players are, as Casey Hudson said, the cocreators of Mass Effect, then there should be multiple ways to end the game, including "Shepard lives" endings

People do multiple playthroughs to tell different stories.  Paragon Sheps, Renegade Sheps  Male or female.  Romancing different characters, making different choices.  People run ME2's Suicide Mission sugically killing off difffernt characters, Are they "doing it wrong"?  

Personally if I was Shepard I would sacrifice my life and that of the crew or even the entire military force to ensure most life survives the reaapers and the threat is ended. I would not sacrifice Earth just so I could live with my LI as many suggested.

Great!  You got your ending!  You got it in three different colors too!  Pity there are no variations on it.

I never chose my warden to sacrifice himself/herself because the options were presented to you beforehand. I only did them all to get the achievements. Didn't even keep a final state on the sacrifice warden just reloaded from the save before and replayed that bit. If I were the warden dark ritual for me all the way. It was an easy out. If Morrigan was not lying it could mean a return of a pure old god returned. It may also mean the survivng archdemons can also be purified. It could be good or bad. If she is lying trying to control an evil godlike being will probably not work out well for her.

I've only once done the Dark Ritual.  I've also sacrificed Loghan, sacrificed Allistair, and the Dwarf Noble I made is going to do the Ultimate Sacrifice.  All have benefits and drawbacks, depending on how you role play the situation. (Hint, having a Tevinter Old God running around Thedas is probably not a good thing.  Where do you think the magisters first learned blood magic?)

For myself, I think I "prefer" having Loghain sacrifice himself.  I like the thought of a villain redeeming himself. Though this ending cost my Warden his friendship with Allistair and his LI (romanced Morrigan in that playthrough)

I've talked to gamers who play female Wardens and romance Alistair who find the Dark Ritual an abolutely abhorrent choice.  You basically have to force the man you love to sleep with another woman so you two can be together at the end.

It's not about "winning' the game.  It's about finding endings that fit the stories you're trying to tell.  Not everyone likes to get to the final chapter only to find that no matter what you said or did through five years and three games, Shepard's ultimate fate is taken out of your hands.  Particularly given by the end of ME3 Shepard has a long history of coming out on top in seemingly hoeless situationsIt's Bioware saying ":You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it"

[TekFanX]

I would love a happy ending. I admit it.

But that's not the reason I put this banner in my sig.
There are a lot of posts out there, where I broadly explained my concerns with the RGB-ending as it is.

Here I will focus on the "happy-ending-point".

Let's take the current ending as a basis for my explanation.

Right now there are possibilities to keep Shepard alive, given your EMS and color-choice.
Expand that on higher EMS for the other colors and I would say they are happy endings.

But happy doesn't mean good.
There would still be the questions I asked myself before, maybe even more. There would still be a lot of things that make no sense. Things, you can read in the spoiler-section.

So yeah, I'd love a happy ending.

But what I want is a good ending that makes sense and is coherent. That somehow shows, what's happening to the characters and races, after the biggest battle in their history.
May it be sad or happy.

Modifié par TekFanX, 08 avril 2012 - 05:24 .

[Eclipse merc]

I want a happy ending...

[Iakus]

To me happy ending (whatever that is) goes towards the need for varied endings. By definition, some would have to be "happier" than others. Instead what we have is a pretty even distribution of bleak.

I'd love to have varied endings that make sense, but since RGB is still in, that doesn't seem possible. So I'm simply stepping up requesting fro at least more upbeat endings.

@TekFanx I'd have no objection to Shepard somehow surviving in the other endings (Maybe Shep can live in Control, but can never leave the Citadel again, or something) but the EMS for red-live already requires MP, which is causing a lot of resentment in people. The EMS levels you describe would require even more MP to achieve

[PMC65]

iakus wrote...

I don't think you give people enough credit.  People care about the fates of the quarians and turians in the Sol system.  You already pointed out people care about the geth.  People care about the tragic stories you overhear on the Citadel.  Not to mention several of the more popular Mass Effect characters unavoidably die over the course of the game.  Some onscreen, some not.  There's a lot of sorrow and bitterness already in Mass Effect 3

And even if you there are people who care for nothing but SHepard and his/her LI of choice,  I say who cares how those players choose to end their games?  It has nothing to do with my Shepard, your Shepard, or anyone else's  Shepards.  This is an rpg, not a narrative-driven action game.  If we players are, as Casey Hudson said, the cocreators of Mass Effect, then there should be multiple ways to end the game, including "Shepard lives" endings

People do multiple playthroughs to tell different stories.  Paragon Sheps, Renegade Sheps  Male or female.  Romancing different characters, making different choices.  People run ME2's Suicide Mission sugically killing off difffernt characters, Are they "doing it wrong"?  

I agree with this ^^^
 
No matter if you see Shepard walk off into the sunset it would not be a "happy ending". Over the course of all three games Shepard experienced great loss.

What I was hoping for was more than one ending (Shepard dead) and an ending that I freakin' understood.

If I did everything to the best of my ability, did every side mission, invested in Shepard ... she might actually make it out. She might stand on the rubble, pray for those that were lost and help in the rebuilding. Would I see her dance and whistle off into the sunset? No. She would still be a battle-scarred, war-weary soldier but there would be a final moment of hope for the future.

As it stands, I have not been able to replay ME3 ... if that is what Bioware intended with this "artistic ending" then they succeeded. If I'm just too stupid to see the greatness in that ending then so be it. My "stupid" self will leave this franchise with my "stupid" money.

[Rubarack]

Honestly, yes I want some kind of a happy ending at least as a possibility, I want the people I saved to stay saved, I want most of my crew to make it through alive and to have some impact on those that don't. If I failed to make some tough choices I think that should have a grave impact but all round I want the galaxy to pull through this and get the payoff that was built up in the previous hundred or so hours.

However, what I need from the ending is dramatic consistency. If any or all of this doesn't come to be I want the pathos that comes from it to come to fruition. I want to hate the reapers for denying me this. In the same way (Kotor spoilers) that nothing you do on Talos really means anything(end spoilers) I want the lack of relevance to my decisions to be profound. If I replay Mass Effect 1 and I think to the meaningless of everything I'm doing I want the anger I'm feeling about that to be directed at the reapers for thwarting me, not Bioware for sloppy writing.

I want a happy ending, but I need a consistent one.

[PaddlePop]

I want an ending that makes sense for my particular shep, whether it's happy or sad is immaterial.