3841 réponses à ce sujet

[RaggieRags]

Grissmin wrote...

Looks like the "artistic integrity" for Bioware means more than their fans and their money.

Bioware and "artistic integrity".

[RaggieRags]

Paying customers are entitled to a product that matches the description of those who made and marketed the thing. Games are no different from any other product in that regard, it's not crazy at all. The ME3 ending wasn't just bad. It was the exact opposite of what Bioware has talked about over and over again. The game industry does this sort of thing all the time and people should complain about it.

magnetite wrote...
The fact they are even making a different
ending proves they do value your input. Otherwise, they would have just
said, the ending we have now is the one you're going to get.

They are not making a different ending, they are going to expand the existing one. Nobody wanted this. See my sig.

Modifié par RaggieRags, 13 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[RaggieRags]

magnetite wrote...

There's that word again "entitled".

Yes. People keep using that word like it's something that shouldn't have anything to do with gaming audiences. Silly people, keep thinking they are "entitled" to actually have a product as advertised. Haha.

Honesty doesn't need a budget. Bioware shouln't make promises they can't keep.

[Drake_Hound]

Entitled , ok lets put that word into perspectief something PR hates .

A right to do or recieve something , wait lets get it clear !!

I have a right to do something , as consumer .
And I have the right to recieve a proper ending to a serie ...

So Is that negative or is PR spinning a postive word into a negative frenzy !

[Common Danger]

My new ending

I can just see it now, the voice of the HAL 9000 will speak out and a monolith will appear in space Shepard will appear as a fetus crying with a Geth holding him in swaddling clothes in the heavens, Garrus will be kicked back on the beach with a beer in hand and a sniper rifle in the other fishing with dynamite. Talli will float in face down with the morning tide. with a seagal siting on her back side. 

Modifié par Common Danger, 13 avril 2012 - 11:45 .

[ShinsFortress]

magnetite wrote...

The truth is no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy.

But as a maker of games, they are supposed to make most people happy.  It sure as heck doesn't seem that way to me.

[kalle90]

ShinsFortress wrote...

magnetite wrote...

The truth is no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy.

But as a maker of games, they are supposed to make most people happy.  It sure as heck doesn't seem that way to me.

Out of whom exactly? The larger audience they are trying to gather to the harder it gets to make them all happy. Please 10 000/10 000 vs 10 000/100 000 and the number of pleased people is the same, but the percentage isn't nor is the profit. Plus even with the current audience there are still billions who don't care for or know ME.

But I agree this gets ridicilous. If people start to rant about Diablo 3, GTAV (?), Max Payne 3, Resident Evil 6, Bioshock Infinite etc. then we can start to call gamers entitled. Because what ME3 has achieved here is unheard of. You can't call something true based on 1 example... Or wait, actually you can - every gamer is a bloodthirsty killer.

Modifié par kalle90, 13 avril 2012 - 02:56 .

[Drake_Hound]

kalle90 wrote...

ShinsFortress wrote...

magnetite wrote...

The truth is no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy.

But as a maker of games, they are supposed to make most people happy.  It sure as heck doesn't seem that way to me.

Out of whom exactly? The larger audience they are trying to gather to the harder it gets to make them all happy. Please 10 000/10 000 vs 10 000/100 000 and the number of pleased people is the same, but the percentage isn't nor is the profit. Plus even with the current audience there are still billions who don't care for or know ME.

But I agree this gets ridicilous. If people start to rant about Diablo 3, GTAV (?), Max Payne 3, Resident Evil 6, Bioshock Infinite etc. then we can start to call gamers entitled. Because what ME3 has achieved here is unheard of. You can't call something true based on 1 example... Or wait, actually you can - every gamer is a bloodthirsty killer.

And what do games validate there claims on , or convince the store that they have to stock up so many units ?
Samples , sorry how do you validate those samples , social medium ?
Billions of people on this planet has beter things to do or not the luxury to play computer game.
So is entertainement for people with luxury ? 

And again entitled see how fast a postive word suddenly lost it meaning .. how fast people are to use hype .
How fast there brains are affected by simple twisting or being manipulated .
I wonder what makes you a individual ? when you cannot reason for yourself anymore ?

So you want to make a statement that is already influenced by outside source , without critical tought process.
So makes your opnion or statement a bit moot , since you already lost a lot of perspectief on the issue .

[sf0749]

From having read the development history of this game, I feel that Casey Hudson and some of his subordiantes were feeling constrained by the genre (rpg) they had chosen for the franchise. They wanted to branch out into other genres (fps shooter, tps shooter), and I feel that by ending the franchise the way they did they gave themselves a way out. Now, in response to fan indignation, they are being forced to do something, anything, to pacify the mob, and I feel they are resentful that they have to do mre with this franchise.

I feel that Casey Hudson was disrespectful of his fans and the franchise. I remember reading that he liked the novel Deception which was later proven by fans as having sevearl canon violations. And, again, like the ending, Bioware was forced to step in, and was forced to repair the novel. Hudson had the ultimate say as the project director on who wrote the ending and who was involved or not involved with the process, and he decided to leave the task to Mac Waters and shut out everyone else. I feel that the flaws in the game were tied to Hudson's weariness with the franchise, and his desire to move on. As the project director, I believe he set the tone for the project.

There were moments of brilliance, Tuchanka, for example. However, most of the game felt tired and worn. This reflected I believe Hudson's feelings perfectly. He was capable of greatness, but he was burned out on the project.

I think artistic integrity requires that the artist be honest with himself, and I don't think Casey Hudson was honest with himself. For that reason, I think the project suffered.

[Drake_Hound]

SF0749 ,that is fair and understandable , since Bioware past and Bioware Present .
Used to be a different company , while they did have success on RPG , there MDK1 and MDK2 aren´t that bad at all , even if half the forum would crucify me for saying that .

But the whole problem is fixing the problems , sorry you cannot leave it at this mess .
And invest more money into a ending , that has nothing to do with Mass Effect .
So if incase it is true , Hudson has to remember , with future of development shifting in the industry.
He doesn´t want to be remembered for killing one of the best sci-fi computer trilogy in this decade.
Even if half of the fans are turning spitefull , he still has to put his ego aside .
And fix the mistakes made , so atleast he can go head high into future project .
Burned out or not , you cannot let millions of people suffer for something you can correct .

[The_Berserker2]

RABicle wrote...

So you didn't get any closure form the missions on Tuchanka and Rannoch then? You didn't see the whole game as an ending Beserker2?

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear - frustration clouds clarity.  The game itself was an ending to the trilogy as a whole, but not unto itself.  In it's own microcosm, it needs it's own ending, which just happens to be the finale for all three games plus all of the other extra literature, etc.  I found no closure from those missions you mentioned for the game itself.  They stand as ramifications and consequences of previous decisions.  As such, they offer conclusions to their particular storylines, not closure to the overarching plotline.

I can't spoil anything, so I can't detail why exactly I feel there is no closure.  Suffice it to say that the final scenes essentially tell me very little.  I'm left with more questions than I had before.

And I still say that getting to the end has been an extreme amount of fun.  I know I'll continue with my current play through (6 or 7) once I can play it again.  Only have a few more character iterations left.  I can't wait to start yelling "Shockwave" again in a panic!

[Naivor]

magnetite wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...
Honesty doesn't need a budget. Bioware shouln't make promises they can't keep.

Then you have no idea how a business works. Fact is, they're going to do this ending DLC one time, and that's it.

Business means honesty. If I went to a customer and told him were gonna be selling a product of our own making that can cut hair, clean ears, trim nosehair and has a DVD player and then the machine didnt have 3/4 of the advertised features, I'd be well out of business before the month is through.

It might be the norm to exaggarate how good your game is going to be these modern days, but that doesnt make it right if the exaggarationg proved to be a flat out lie.

[FutureBoy81]

sf0749 wrote...

From having read the development history of this game, I feel that Casey Hudson and some of his subordiantes were feeling constrained by the genre (rpg) they had chosen for the franchise. They wanted to branch out into other genres (fps shooter, tps shooter), and I feel that by ending the franchise the way they did they gave themselves a way out. Now, in response to fan indignation, they are being forced to do something, anything, to pacify the mob, and I feel they are resentful that they have to do mre with this franchise.

I feel that Casey Hudson was disrespectful of his fans and the franchise. I remember reading that he liked the novel Deception which was later proven by fans as having sevearl canon violations. And, again, like the ending, Bioware was forced to step in, and was forced to repair the novel. Hudson had the ultimate say as the project director on who wrote the ending and who was involved or not involved with the process, and he decided to leave the task to Mac Waters and shut out everyone else. I feel that the flaws in the game were tied to Hudson's weariness with the franchise, and his desire to move on. As the project director, I believe he set the tone for the project.

There were moments of brilliance, Tuchanka, for example. However, most of the game felt tired and worn. This reflected I believe Hudson's feelings perfectly. He was capable of greatness, but he was burned out on the project.

I think artistic integrity requires that the artist be honest with himself, and I don't think Casey Hudson was honest with himself. For that reason, I think the project suffered.

Good post

[Menethra]

What annoys me the most is BioWare being stubborn over this. When i was playing SWTOR BioWare hosted a " Guild Summit " in which they invited players to come meet them face to face and discuss TOR though i no longer play TOR i had to say that was one of those moments you truly feel like the company and the people behind it do care.

Reading Ray Muzyka's thanks for playing post also brought a smile to my face. it felt like they gave a crap what their fans wanted  and valued their support. But now they hide behind excuses such as artist integrity it's disappointing.

I loved the mass effect series and like most i became quite attached to my shepard and the story that was built over the years, did i want a happy ending for him? Yes i suppose i did but that hope was completely taken away when the catalyst appeared and the events that followed.

For the most part of things i loved mass effect 3, some events were very moving such as mordin's death and legions sacrifice and the choices we made were reflected such as the genophege saving melon's data could decide the fate of eve then we had the option to decide if we wanted to cure it or not.

But not at the ending, our choices felt hollow the things we built felt as if it was for naught.

I know bioware are so much better than this, please don't let the story end in such a way.

Modifié par Menethra, 13 avril 2012 - 07:09 .

[GengisKhan]

They already sold theirs souls, dragon age 2 was only the beginning. I cant help but remember the awesomeness of the witcher 2, where you can die depending on the dialog you choose, now thats how you do a game.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Listened to this over dinner:



Excellent summary. "Mass Effect didn't end; it stopped..."

[Sarenator]

Bluko wrote...

You guys really need to spit out what this DLC is or what it's going to do. And a little more then "clarity" or "closure" I might add. You can't just kep tip-toeing around the elephant in the room and hope it will go away. Longer you wait to tell us your plans the more mad everyone is going to be when it does come to light. It's really that simple and your stalling on this is pointless.

Anywho that said I hope this DLC does the following:

-Has a final battle sequence that plays out like the Suicide Mission from ME2, but instead of squadmates involves fleets and armies. So our choices can matter a little more then just being a part of the "Winning Meter".
-Has a conclusion that makes sense and answers at least some very basic questions. Like what was the deal with Human Reaper? You know less space magic and more reasoning based on somewhat sound principles. Also no teleporting characters please.
-Doesn't leave us with a bunch questions and the fate of the galaxy to be completely uncertain. Most everyone who played ME3 did so to see resolution not "speculation".

Otherwise anything else is pretty pointless. I don't need to see an epilogue text saying Garrus opened a Gun Shop on Earth to make me feel better. Mostly I want an ending that makes sense with consideration given to actually fitting themes of the series. Heck Shepard can die in all the endings for all I care. But it has to be a good death and not like the jump off the bridge garbage we have now. Though it might be a good idea to let folks keep their Shepard alive so they too can at least have a sort of pleasant ending.

Either way great job. Not only were your comments prior to launch highly misleading and outright false at times, but you also have the audacity to leave most of your fans in a dark room screaming for a month. Now maybe it's our fault for walking into this room and maybe some of us have "problems". But all you had to do was come in and turn on the lights. But hey just keep letting the baby cry. It'll eventually shut up and go to sleep right? I totally know that's what Parents of the Year award winners do.

Your signature is pretty much how i feel about Bioware right now. At least i didn't get shot in the foot, though 

[jaykingston33]

I've played all three games, and I found the endings of ME3 to be lazy writing. If that's what they call "artistic intregrity" then to each his own. I am curious to see how they will "clarify" the endings, so I will give it a try (hey, it's free!) I liked ME3, but not as much as the other two games. ME3 felt rushed at some points and incomplete at others (The characters you interact with rarely faced you when speaking like in the previous games which makes some interacts seem less personal, what was the purpose of romancing characters from ME2, simplified dialogue options... and the ending). Maybe Bioware/EA should've pushed back the release date just so they could get everything right. I, for one, wouldn't have minded waiting a couple more months for a great game, instead of a good one.

Modifié par jaykingston33, 13 avril 2012 - 09:41 .

[Curious1]

I tried going outside the game for answers...I found comics, and novels etc, and I still draw a blank on the ending. Having some mysterious element to it is fine, but it was just flat out fragmented/vague. Kind of like someone explaining something in 5 steps, but only explain step 1, 3, and 5 lol.

Modifié par Curious1, 13 avril 2012 - 10:13 .

[Trebor1969]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Listened to this over dinner:



Excellent summary. "Mass Effect didn't end; it stopped..."

Excellent Indeed !

[LegendaryBlade]

I'm in the wait and see boat in this, despite how pessimistic I am about it. Hopefully enough will be added to the ending that it will at least be mediocre. I sort of gave up on the hope of good.