3841 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepard108278]

TheDarkShape wrote...

Yeah, I don't know if I'm following there. Mass Effect 3 is very much a refined Mass Effect 2. It adds multiplayer, but there's hardly a real shift in terms of gameplay or design objectives. It's a refinement of ME2, not a major play at being something else.

Not to mention, the audience *is* expanding.  Mass Effect 3 will end up outselling both previous games (it already has outsold the first).

Agreed. Just curious what's your take on the ending?

[o Ventus]

TheDarkShape wrote...

Not thinking ME3 is a refined ME2 is being a total fanboy who blindly denies ME3's strengths.   Thank God I live in a world where something isn't either "Awesome" or "Worst Thing Ever!!!!"

ME3 only refines ME2 in gameplay (Meaning combat in this context). Otherwise, it's a stark downgrade on numerous fronts.

[Raphamon]

Estelindis wrote...

I don't see how this is going to give most of those who were disappointed in the ending what they're actually looking for.  Bioware may be proud of the ending, but the "passionate" fans referenced in the press release are not.  Given that these are the fans to whom, presumably, you're responding, I sincerely doubt that this will do much to improve relations.  Like so many others, I wanted additional endings, for Shepard to be able to object to the last-minute antogonist.  If the Extended Cut does not provide this, it will not satisfy its intended audience.

For the record, I think that Bioware has every right to be proud of the main game.  Most of those protesting at the ending agree.  However, I think that it's possible to make deep mistakes in the art of storytelling, and, when one does that, hiding behind the label of "art" is not a demonstration of integrity.

People may say: why can't you wait and see?  Why not give Bioware a chance?  It's not an entirely unfair response.  It's exactly what I would have said before I experienced the ending of ME3.  I had faith in Bioware then.  But it's very difficult to maintain such faith after having been so deeply disappointed by the ending and having seen no indication that Bioware feel the ending was a mistake.

Bioware, it's not too late to change your minds about this.  You still have months before this DLC is going to be released, months in which to reconsider.  Changing your mind after making a mistake is not a weakness; it's a strength.  If nothing else, ask yourself how likely it is that fans who loved Mass Effect will be interested in any new franchises you create.  If the loving work of years can be squandered in a few minutes, it discourages us from investing in another new world and new characters.  After all, you could just do to them what you've done to Mass Effect with the ending of ME3.  Please, please reconsider.

I agree with you. And also let me just say this: yes, the main game in Mass Effect 3 is amazing. I can understand how Bioware can be proud of that. The thing that is a complete failure in my honest opinion is the last 20 minutes of the game. That is where the problem lies. Everything before the final 20 minutes of the game is amazingly well done. Having said that I can't believe Bioware can say that they are proud of the final 20 minutes of the game. Any sane person would be ashamed for creating that 20 minutes of nonsense. The final 20 minutes of the game is what needs to be changed. It needs to be CHANGED, not extended. No amount of extra content will ever be able to explain what is going on in the final 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3.

I hope Bioware understands that we are not trying to be difficult and we are not trying to make trouble. We love the Mass Effect series. Which is why we are so disappointed with the way the series ended. Nothing about the last 20 minutes of the story make any sense in any way, shape or form.

If you don't understand what is wrong with the final 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 then take a look at this video (be sure to have finished Mass Effect 3 first): www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=caAqFFhBn2U

That video outlines exactly everything that is wrong with the final 20 minutes of this game.

Modifié par Raphamon, 03 juin 2012 - 04:32 .

[TheDarkShape]

Shepard108278 wrote...

TheDarkShape wrote...

Yeah, I don't know if I'm following there. Mass Effect 3 is very much a refined Mass Effect 2. It adds multiplayer, but there's hardly a real shift in terms of gameplay or design objectives. It's a refinement of ME2, not a major play at being something else.

Not to mention, the audience *is* expanding.  Mass Effect 3 will end up outselling both previous games (it already has outsold the first).

Agreed. Just curious what's your take on the ending?

I like the choices presented -- absolutely love that there's a cost to everything, and there isn't an easy "Hey, this super-weapon just kills Reapers!  Good thing we found it!" -- but the execution and sense of logic were lacking. 

o Ventus wrote...

ME3 only refines ME2 in gameplay (Meaning combat in this context). Otherwise, it's a stark downgrade on numerous fronts.

The gameplay's tighter, you have more custimization options, there are more consequences for your actions through the bulk of the game, and your squad feels considerably more alive with the extra banter/scene dynamics.  The improvements extend to more than just shootin'.

Modifié par TheDarkShape, 03 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[I-AM-KROGAN]

All i honestly want is to explain what happens with the fleets, squadmates, and other characters.

And please tell me what my LI is doing about my sheps death or if he lives or something.

[Rhalle]

DaJe wrote...
These business practices and design decisions driven by market trends are hurting EA and Bioware. Gamers don't like to be fooled and treated like statistics.

I agree: they will appreciate not being thought of as a slice of the consumer base for which something has been altered to their tastes to get them to buy it.  It's inherently insulting.

And yet, for some reason, the decision to make the ending what it was is clearly not influenced by some desire to please the fans that all the other comprimises were made for.        

It's almost as if the ending was a giant trollface designed to ****** off everyone.

It reminds me of the same mistakes Bioware made with Dragon Age:Origins.  They really got the ball rolling popularizing RPGs as a cool genre and touting how it would be a definitive and old-school RPG experience, and yet they **** all over that by paring away at its RPG elements. They set it up and then they knocked it down.  They sort of did the opposite with the ending of ME3.

The gameplay's tighter, you have more custimization options, there are more consequences for your actions through the bulk of the game, and your squad feels considerably more alive with the extra banter/scene dynamics.  The improvements extend to more than just shootin'.

Character movement in combat may be a little tighter.  Acrobat Shepard isn't perfect, though-- and maybe not to everyone's taste..  

There are fewer customization options than there were in ME1, which had 3 upgrade slots and mods for both weaopons and armors.  That stuff was removed in ME2, and likely only came back in ME3 because weapon modding has become a staple of the COD experience.  

I agree that party banter did make a bit of a return this time, having gone AWOL in ME2, but it is rare and is restricted to missions, since the only hub was the Citadel, and for the first time in any of the games you could not take any party members with you when you disembarked the Normandy.  The conversation options that you could get with squadmates populating various places on the citadel was pretty cool.  But it needed to have been more of an addition than a complete replacement.

And I still can't figure out how such a garbagey quest log made it into a Bioware game.  It's atrocious. I can't think of one in any RPG remotely on the same level as ME3 that has one as bad.  There are freeware and junky, scammy cash-shop MMOs that have better ones.

Modifié par Rhalle, 03 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[Dariansarr]

So release date yet?

[ShadowAussie]

it may be free but will they pull it off?

[CaptainRegor]

ShadowAussie wrote...

it may be free but will they pull it off?

Now that is the question, they already ditched Indoctornation theory, but since they are having Hackett back (the actor have comfirmed this his name escapes me right now) 
But having Hackett back shows promise since he is the leader for the battle and when Shepard is on the crucible he has been told Shepard and everybody else is dead so how the heck does he know Shepard is up there? That is one of the reasons it's bad they said no to indoctornation since that explained it all

[AlanC9]

Rhalle wrote...
There are fewer customization options than there were in ME1, which had 3 upgrade slots and mods for both weaopons and armors.  That stuff was removed in ME2, and likely only came back in ME3 because weapon modding has become a staple of the COD experience.  

But the ME3 skill system offers much more variation than ME1's. My take is that ME3 is quite a bit more customizable than ME1 -- though honestly, that might have something to do with me disliking loot in CRPGs in the first place.

And I still can't figure out how such a garbagey quest log made it into a Bioware game.  It's atrocious. I can't think of one in any RPG remotely on the same level as ME3 that has one as bad.  There are freeware and junky, scammy cash-shop MMOs that have better ones.

Probably because nobody thought players would actually try to work from the quest log. Anyone you need to deliver something to shows on the Citadel map, and outside of that a log couldn't help you anyway  -- there are only a couple of sidequests where you're actually told where to go. I'm guessing all the testers figured out what to do and assumed everyone else would too.

[AlanC9]

CaptainRegor wrote...

But having Hackett back shows promise since he is the leader for the battle and when Shepard is on the crucible he has been told Shepard and everybody else is dead so how the heck does he know Shepard is up there?

They didn't find the body?

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Probably because nobody thought players would actually try to work from the quest log. Anyone you need to deliver something to shows on the Citadel map, and outside of that a log couldn't help you anyway  -- there are only a couple of sidequests where you're actually told where to go. I'm guessing all the testers figured out what to do and assumed everyone else would too.

And you know what happens when you make an assumption 

[FFinfinity1]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Probably because nobody thought players would actually try to work from the quest log. Anyone you need to deliver something to shows on the Citadel map, and outside of that a log couldn't help you anyway  -- there are only a couple of sidequests where you're actually told where to go. I'm guessing all the testers figured out what to do and assumed everyone else would too.

And you know what happens when you make an assumption 

I never used the map ONCE if i got lost in all the mass effects, if what your saying is true Alan then that makes things slightly easier but still, the quest log was incredibly shotty. The ME2 quest log was great it updated and everything, why did they make it crap in the third.

[AlanC9]

FFinfinity1 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Probably because nobody thought players would actually try to work from the quest log. Anyone you need to deliver something to shows on the Citadel map, and outside of that a log couldn't help you anyway  -- there are only a couple of sidequests where you're actually told where to go. I'm guessing all the testers figured out what to do and assumed everyone else would too.

And you know what happens when you make an assumption 

I never used the map ONCE if i got lost in all the mass effects, if what your saying is true Alan then that makes things slightly easier but still, the quest log was incredibly shotty. The ME2 quest log was great it updated and everything, why did they make it crap in the third.

I didn't mean to imply it was a good design. I'm just saing that a better journal wouldn't tell you anything you need to know.

Well, except for that one sidequest where you're asked to go to the volus homeworld and you have no idea where it is... that's just dumb

[Belhawk]

 well, to me the game felt un-polished.  the static journal system, u can't holster your weapon, skimpy romances, u can't take squad-mates to citadel.the ending felt like a whole different team did the ending for the game.And they aren't going to fix anything, because it is all "Artistic":(

[ztemplarz]

Well, I'm not going to read through 145 pages of previous posts. I don't understand what all the fuss is about, regarding the ending. I personally liked it quite a lot. I appreciated that they didn't make it "easy", and really made you make a choice. I like that it was closely tied in to the overall "readiness", because that really made sense in this context. I would have to say that tactically, this was definitely the hardest of the ME games for me. There were a couple hard fights in the previous games, but nothing to compare to some of these, especially as you neared the conclusion.

I'm happy that we will get more information regarding what happened to everyone on the crew, since I am, of course, "curious" what the writers will say. I didn't see it as being necessary, given how the game concludes, but it will be "nice".

[DanaScu]

ztemplarz wrote...

Well, I'm not going to read through 145 pages of previous posts. I don't understand what all the fuss is about, regarding the ending. I personally liked it quite a lot. I appreciated that they didn't make it "easy", and really made you make a choice. I like that it was closely tied in to the overall "readiness", because that really made sense in this context. I would have to say that tactically, this was definitely the hardest of the ME games for me. There were a couple hard fights in the previous games, but nothing to compare to some of these, especially as you neared the conclusion.

I'm happy that we will get more information regarding what happened to everyone on the crew, since I am, of course, "curious" what the writers will say. I didn't see it as being necessary, given how the game concludes, but it will be "nice".

What choice? Unless you have a favorite color, there wasn't much difference in the "choices".  No choice really mattered in ME or ME2. That is leaving out that you have to do something/play multiplayer to get an ending, after there were statements that playing multiplayer would NOT be necessary in any way shape or form.  Anyway, in a nutshell covers most of the things people have issues with.

Modifié par DanaScu, 03 juin 2012 - 11:40 .

[TheDarkShape]

This "unless you have a favorite color" thing is silly. Yes, it's the same cinematic, but the meaning is entirely different. Does Priority: Tuchanka suck as well? After all, it always ends with the exact same cinematic of the Shroud dispersing "the cure."

[Rhalle]

AlanC9 wrote...

Rhalle wrote...
There are fewer customization options than there were in ME1, which had 3 upgrade slots and mods for both weaopons and armors.  That stuff was removed in ME2, and likely only came back in ME3 because weapon modding has become a staple of the COD experience.  

But the ME3 skill system offers much more variation than ME1's. My take is that ME3 is quite a bit more customizable than ME1 -- though honestly, that might have something to do with me disliking loot in CRPGs in the first place.

I played a little ME1 for the first time in a long time last night.  One thing for sure is that the cover and shooting mechanics are vastly improved in ME2/3.  They are really clunky and flabby in ME1. That said I prefer the skill-and talent building system of ME1 by a long shot; it really is lots better.  That certain types of Ammo are a "skill" since ME2 is stupid (and is another form of cutting away at customization and complexity of game mechanics) and driven by combination of pandering and laziness.  

I've always thought that "Shotgun;Assault Rifle; Pistol; Sniper Rifle; SMG" was pretty weak, but I guess I can live with it.  But I downright hate that all the different cool "sciency" stuff having to do with weapons and armor-- i.e.,  mods like "kinetic exoskeleton"  or "ablative coating" that existed in ME1-- were removed likely because someone deemed they were too heady. (Apparently Bioware's desired audience didn't pay attention in 7th grade science class.)  So, instead of "Frictionless Mateirals", "Scram Rail"-- and so on, we get weapon mods that you could cut and paste right into Call of Duty and nobody would notice.  Sad.

Modifié par Rhalle, 04 juin 2012 - 12:16 .

[visionazzery]

BIOWARE AND ESPECIALLY EA who is raising many fans suspicions of their involvement and influence here, both SERIOUSLY need to not just say scripted press releases but PROVE TO US THEIR OWN LOYAL FAN BASE they will listen to what a whopping overwhelming majority of 145 pages of posts are saying- Bioware say they value our feedback but is anyone convinced posting here that their specific and justified concerns are being carefully considered in the forming of the extended ending? DO most agree here if you were in BIOWARE'S shoes that you would make note and not just say it but seriously consider AND apply the feedback we all giving them in shaping the new ending?

 Is it me or would it just be plain embarassing for any game company in the current situation from their point of view that the changes that are going to be made after they say they listen -and yet we already know that they atm are not listening or taking our concerns seriously as the 'changes' their fan base ask for are not atm being considered by that same very company that directly told fans 'we value singleplayer and our loyal  fans?' is it just me here or are we all feeling already a biy dudded knowing that all the choices we make will not be reflected in the grand climax of the trilogy?

IT IS NOT TOO LATE BIOWARE AND EA TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT AND RESTORE PUBLIC FAN BASED CONFIDENCE WE DO NOT WANT THE ABOVE TO COME TO PASS YOU BIOWARE AND MASS EFFECT SERIES DESERVE A BETTER MORE FAVOURABLE OUTCOME THAN I FEAR YOU GET ATM. 

[Zujilin]

visionazzery wrote...

BIOWARE AND ESPECIALLY EA who is raising many fans suspicions of their involvement and influence here, both SERIOUSLY need to not just say scripted press releases but PROVE TO US THEIR OWN LOYAL FAN BASE they will listen to what a whopping overwhelming majority of 145 pages of posts are saying- Bioware say they value our feedback but is anyone convinced posting here that their specific and justified concerns are being carefully considered in the forming of the extended ending? DO most agree here if you were in BIOWARE'S shoes that you would make note and not just say it but seriously consider AND apply the feedback we all giving them in shaping the new ending?

 Is it me or would it just be plain embarassing for any game company in the current situation from their point of view that the changes that are going to be made after they say they listen -and yet we already know that they atm are not listening or taking our concerns seriously as the 'changes' their fan base ask for are not atm being considered by that same very company that directly told fans 'we value singleplayer and our loyal  fans?' is it just me here or are we all feeling already a biy dudded knowing that all the choices we make will not be reflected in the grand climax of the trilogy?

IT IS NOT TOO LATE BIOWARE AND EA TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT AND RESTORE PUBLIC FAN BASED CONFIDENCE WE DO NOT WANT THE ABOVE TO COME TO PASS YOU BIOWARE AND MASS EFFECT SERIES DESERVE A BETTER MORE FAVOURABLE OUTCOME THAN I FEAR YOU GET ATM. 

holy words, I agree!

[Trebor1969]

o Ventus wrote...

TheDarkShape wrote...

Not thinking ME3 is a refined ME2 is being a total fanboy who blindly denies ME3's strengths.   Thank God I live in a world where something isn't either "Awesome" or "Worst Thing Ever!!!!"

ME3 only refines ME2 in gameplay (Meaning combat in this context). Otherwise, it's a stark downgrade on numerous fronts.

+1

[jakal66]

People can suggest all they want,complain all they want,rage all they want and certainly whine all they want, but the fact is the ending as it is,is here to stay, they might explain further and close the gaps,they might even throw in a few surprises and give closure to many fans, perhaps they make the ending make more sense, yes it might be bad business in the end but it's the path they chose and apparently are sticking to it.

Although from some tweets we can see that there might be hopes for improvements, but the fact is that those who want a completly different ending will more likely NEVER get it and the sooner they get this the better for all of us,those who want to remain will remain and those who want to move on will probably do so.

Modifié par jakal66, 04 juin 2012 - 04:27 .

[DanaScu]

TheDarkShape wrote...

This "unless you have a favorite color" thing is silly. Yes, it's the same cinematic, but the meaning is entirely different. Does Priority: Tuchanka suck as well? After all, it always ends with the exact same cinematic of the Shroud dispersing "the cure."

Wouldn't know.

Doesn't matter. No matter what you chose, you have no idea what happens.

Red, blue, green. [Green involves more space magic creating organic/non-organic components instantaneously out of nothing, so its even more special than Destroy and Control.]

Relays blow up with a space magic explosion that doesn't wipe out the whole system even though this whole thing started off with the aftermath of Shepard being in trouble for vaporizing 300,000 people when s/he blew up a relay and wiped out an inhabited system.  Joker/Normandy bail on the "this is the last stand fight" to crash on New Cycle Eden planet somewhere. With the mysteriously teleported squad members aboard who were with you in the last fight  but weren't turned into crispy critters by the beam. No krogan. No quarian. No geth. No rachni. No combined fleet. No idea what happened on Earth/Tuchunka/Thessia/Palavan after your choice of colored explosion. It really makes no difference.

There's another vid with all three colored endings playing in splitscreen. There aren't a lot of differences to point at.   

[Kestrel-]

I'm not sure that an "explanation" will be enough. But it will be interesting to see how you will explain Shep survives a fall from hundred kilometers hight, whilst he last time died of it.