3841 réponses à ce sujet

[Saint Op]

Great news...Longer stuff can make each one very different and show why most things happened.
It can give more incite into what state the universe & your squad is in...I can find easy ways to clear up most of it with some longer added scenes.
It was never going to totally change and they had almost no chance to make most people happy because everyone wanted something different...even if they all think everyone agrees with them it was obvious that was not true...

[LinksOcarina]

magnetite wrote...

Oransel wrote...

magnetite wrote...

This was Bioware's choice to give us an extended ending. You guys should be thankful they even decided to do it. They could have just left it with the current ending and said that's that. .

Sorry, but you are wrong. The relationship between consumer and producer is always 2 sided, you should know that. Bioware is obliged to listen to us and do what we want if they want our hard work earned money.

So you think customers are allowed to throw temper tantrums until the company gives in and decides to give them what they want? That's manipulation

Considering the EULA was likely signed before the game was put in a system or downloaded...technically the customers have no say in what they do with the product since the product is liscenced to them. The loophole is simple; you don't own the game by legal obligation.

Its a ****ty loophole, but its technically legal. So BioWare and EA didn't have to change anything in the end. 

[Amioran]

SirPetrakus wrote...
Buddy, you got me wrong! I'm 100% right there, with you. People who complain about plot holes are too dumb to understand they are FEATURES! I mean, how dense can you get? People wanting consistensy and good writing. Pffft!

As I thought.

You demonstrated my point perfectly, given your unability to comprehend neither minimally what I said. I'm not perplexed at al about the rest given this.

I said that just because this "ending" is not an ending at all, giving what you call "plot-holes" is a good thing. And since I understand perfectly that you cannot grasp why I will give you an hint: momentum. If you end a story fully and you want to start another with the same background then you have to start from beginning and the momentum of before will be lost.

Think about it, I'm sure you can grasp it if you want.

[Rafe34]

Welp.

So long Bioware. You just lost a life-long customer if this is indeed what you say it is.

If I can't trust what you say about your own games, why should I bother buying them?

[Atalanta]

This isn't what you wanted?

Let them hear it at PAX tomorrow. Be kind but firm; compliment them on an awesome game but let them know what the problems are with the ending, and why this 'clarification' dlc is not going to work.

[ratzerman]

The more I read that blog post, the more it sounds like "let us explain to you why you're wrong for hating the ending."

[vI Demon Iv]

http://www.forbes.co...ica-now-what/2/

"I believe EA is a destructive force in the industry as their goal isn’t to make gaming more accessible and respected as a medium. How can you argue that video games are art, when pieces of the story are cleaved out to be sold separately?"

Modifié par vI Demon Iv, 05 avril 2012 - 05:35 .

[thatbwoyblu]

Im disappointed Biowares.Yo bwoy bwoy is gonna always hold the line.You cant polich dog doo doo.No matter what We out here 100 million zillion strong bwoy bwoy.

[daecath]

The ending did everything wrong. It did everything wrong from a literary standpoint (http://www.writersdi...f-novel-endings), and it did everything wrong in terms of paying service to the rest of the series. I’m sorry BioWare doesn’t see this, and I’m sorry more fans don’t see this.

I don’t think they should produce this. If they are going to stick by their artistic vision, then let them commit to it fully. For most of us, simply expanding on that ending isn’t going to change anything. So let them concentrate on providing content for those that did find it satisfying, and those of us who didn’t will mourn the loss of a beloved franchise.

[Persephone]

Atalanta wrote...

This isn't what you wanted?

Let them hear it at PAX tomorrow. Be kind but firm; compliment them on an awesome game but let them know what the problems are with the ending, and why this 'clarification' dlc is not going to work.

Or ask for more information. Details. Will there be added ending variables (Cutscenes & Epilogues are perfect for that, I.E. DAO) at least?

[Estelindis]

aries1001 wrote...

The 'yes, we're listening speak' is just that 'Bioware are listening'. Like Bioware has always done from its start in 1995. However, while Bioware may listen to the fans, the fans do not always get what they want.

It is sort of like a teacher where the students want one thing and the teacher will listen to the what the students want, but also know that wish a and b can't ve fulfillfed now, because the curriculum demands something else right now, but wish c and d can, and maybe e and f, and g and h and i, if the teacher does this or that.

With this above analogy I'm trying to say that like students we can get ask for what we want, but maybe the teacher aka Bioware in this instance isn't always ready to give us what we want. Being listened to it does not mean that Bioware need or should give us what we want. And want the fans want are many different things - just like students in class want many different things. And the teacher aka Bioware needs to say yes, no or maybe to what the students want based on many things as well, most importantly where the company - or the curriculum - is leading the course - or the game. 

The trouble with this analogy is that it implies that the teacher is wiser and knows better than the students.  However, given that I had an English teacher who claimed that the "Danes" in Act 4, Scene 5 of Hamlet: Prince of Denmark are dogs (great danes) in spite of the fact that they have lines, teachers can clearly make mistakes...  To my mind, when it comes to the ending, Bioware is more like my English teacher than the wise authority figure you describe, and maintaining that the ending only needs clarification and not change is like maintaining that Shakespeare gave dogs lines of dialogue in Hamlet.  For a teacher, to refuse to admit the mistake, and keep on insisting she was right, would further decrease the respect and trust between herself and the students.  For Bioware to maintain that the ending has artistic value makes it less and less likely that those unhappy with the ending will consider them a company worthy of trust and support.

Modifié par Estelindis, 05 avril 2012 - 05:39 .

[ParagonX30]

magnetite wrote...

Oransel wrote...

magnetite wrote...

This was Bioware's choice to give us an extended ending. You guys should be thankful they even decided to do it. They could have just left it with the current ending and said that's that. .

Sorry, but you are wrong. The relationship between consumer and producer is always 2 sided, you should know that. Bioware is obliged to listen to us and do what we want if they want our hard work earned money.

So you think customers are allowed to throw temper tantrums until the company gives in and decides to give them what they want? That's manipulation

Ugh. This happens all the time in SERIOUS industries my friend. Never heard of foodwatch? Or other NGO's monitoring big companies? Heck, these NGO's can create sh*tstorms that can rival the ME3 movement. 

Maybe the momentum of the Retake ME3 movement can be used to create a Videogame industry Watchdog. Seriously, that's not such a bad idea. Even the big players would understand not to mess with a highly organized bunch of Gamers, standing up for their rights. (the ME3 ending is only a symptom. DLC, DRM etc. are other problems)

This whole situation can become a precedent for the whole industry. 

[Dagger]

Thanks Bioware.

[LinksOcarina]

daecath wrote...

The ending did everything wrong. It did everything wrong from a literary standpoint (http://www.writersdi...f-novel-endings), and it did everything wrong in terms of paying service to the rest of the series. I’m sorry BioWare doesn’t see this, and I’m sorry more fans don’t see this.

I don’t think they should produce this. If they are going to stick by their artistic vision, then let them commit to it fully. For most of us, simply expanding on that ending isn’t going to change anything. So let them concentrate on providing content for those that did find it satisfying, and those of us who didn’t will mourn the loss of a beloved franchise.

Literature does not follow aspects from a checklist of an authors opinion on whats right and wrong. If it did, Tolkien's works would be burned because they are terrible stories in that regard. 

[Persephone]

vI Demon Iv wrote...

http://www.forbes.co...ica-now-what/2/

"I believe EA is a destructive force in the industry as their goal isn’t to make gaming more accessible and respected as a medium. How can you argue that video games are art, when pieces of the story are cleaved out to be sold separately?"

FORBES also supports this DLC however.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Glad they are doing something but srsly Artistic view?
Are they joking?

[Andyrew_]

I'm very happy with the response, more clarity is exactly what I'm looking for, i didnt understand and didnt like having to speculate / make assumptions on what happened ... which like others made my experience of the ending poor.

If they can pull this off (if anyone can, Bioware can) i will be happy to replay the whole series, hell, they have enough notes from this forum to pull together a conclusive list of things that people want closure to in order to wrap the story up.

Looks like weve not got a few months worth of speculation to come, but hey i'm a patient person.

Can't wait to see what this brings.

[Khayness]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

Im disappointed Biowares.Yo bwoy bwoy is gonna always hold the line.You cant polich dog doo doo.No matter what We out here 100 million zillion strong bwoy bwoy.

Haha, nice to see you are still around mate.

[Painbastard666]

SPECIAL REPORT: THE TRUTH WHY MASS EFFECT 3 WENT WRONG

Now
we have proof. Some trustworthy sources ( my grandma, a garbageman and
that guy who's always asking for food just around the corner) just told
me what happend at Bioware HQ back in the days.

There was Drew
Karpyshyn writing the whole thing starting back at ME1, but 5 minutes
before he ends ME3 he stopped, and leaves BW with a filthy song on his
lips andhis trainee at his mind (i think it's the same guy who wrote the
4th ME novel).

Now the Management startet to shiver. "Oh, what can we do, we have no end for our much loved space opera?!?"

The trainee came in. "I can do it, remember my skill in writing the shiny novel. I'm sure i can make a better ending than Drew can."

The management thinks about it. "Hmm, 99% are done, he can't do much damage to the series". "Well, ok, start writing Mr. Tranee-guy."

Several days after ME3 release:

90% of all fans: "WAAAAAAAHHHHH what have you done to our beloved game. Its great, but the end is so stupid and meaningless and terrible and full of plotholes."

The management thinks again. "Hmmm, something went wrong. This are not the voices we wanted to hear. Can anybody look for that trainee-guy?"

Trainee-guy comes in. "Yes masters, how can i serve you? ..... What nobody loves my ending? Grrrr, and i gave my heart to it. I even stopped to take my medicine and lockpicked that straitjacket so i can write quicker."

The management thinks more and more. "What can we do, the fans are going to kill us, we need to find more closure. That trainee-guy should write a little more explaning stuff, so the fans will understand our artistic vision."

And now we are here and looking forward to more sh***y closure and more sh***y artistic vison of an insane mind.

[vI Demon Iv]

Amioran wrote...

SirPetrakus wrote...
Buddy, you got me wrong! I'm 100% right there, with you. People who complain about plot holes are too dumb to understand they are FEATURES! I mean, how dense can you get? People wanting consistensy and good writing. Pffft!

As I thought.

You demonstrated my point perfectly, given your unability to comprehend neither minimally what I said. I'm not perplexed at al about the rest given this.

I said that just because this "ending" is not an ending at all, giving what you call "plot-holes" is a good thing. And since I understand perfectly that you cannot grasp why I will give you an hint: momentum. If you end a story fully and you want to start another with the same background then you have to start from beginning and the momentum of before will be lost.

Think about it, I'm sure you can grasp it if you want.

Translation: If you want to sell DLC for the next year or two for the game, you cannot give it a proper ending, otherwise how would you sell DLC and make more money?

[aapiix]

BioWare... you've just fvcked up the end game.

[Arch1eviathan]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Is "artistic integrity" the reason why this company half-a**ed Tali without her helmet by cribbing it from a stock photo website?

Yeah, that was prett disappointing

[crazyrabbits]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Considering the EULA was likely signed before the game was put in a system or downloaded...technically the customers have no say in what they do with the product since the product is liscenced to them. The loophole is simple; you don't own the game by legal obligation.

Its a ****ty loophole, but its technically legal. So BioWare and EA didn't have to change anything in the end. 

North American copyright law clearly states that while the material is still licenced to the copyright holders, the customer still owns the disc they bought (under the agreement that they don't share the material for commercial use).

It doesn't really matter what EA's EULA states, because the actual law supercedes it (along with several other countries treating EULA's as non-binding, regardless of what companies say).

[Beti88]

Sorry for my blatant and rude analogy, but it seems I'm just some whiney, entitled, simpleton gamer:

A polished turd is still a turd.

[LinksOcarina]

crazyrabbits wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Considering the EULA was likely signed before the game was put in a system or downloaded...technically the customers have no say in what they do with the product since the product is liscenced to them. The loophole is simple; you don't own the game by legal obligation.

Its a ****ty loophole, but its technically legal. So BioWare and EA didn't have to change anything in the end. 

North American copyright law clearly states that while the material is still licenced to the copyright holders, the customer still owns the disc they bought (under the agreement that they don't share the material for commercial use).

It doesn't really matter what EA's EULA states, because the actual law supercedes it (along with several other countries treating EULA's as non-binding, regardless of what companies say).

Depends really, since no case has set that precedent yet, although a few came close and were dropped before it went to trial.

In the end, the material in question can be left  to interpreation, hence the loophole.