3841 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkitekt]

AxisEvolve wrote...

I think "expanding" a plot-hole filled ending will actually make it worse, but I'll wait and see.

To educate the audience, a "plot hole" is when the plot moves from point A to C without any clue of what happened at the necessary point B. IOW, a plot hole is not an inconsistency, but a part of the plot that was simply skipped.

Now, people use that word to say "inconsistencies". However these are different criticisms.

A plot hole is worrying because it is quite probable that the "hole" was disregarded as such and that "point B" wasn't even thought out. To close plot holes, either (a) it's rather easy because point B was thought out it just wasn't exposed to the audience or ( it's rather convoluted and fugly because the writers suddenly see themselves scratching their little heads wondering how they'll manage to cover the hole without destroying the entire narrative logic in the process.

For instance, I have hope that the Normandy going throughout the network is a plot hole type (a), not type (. A dead crewmate coming out of the Normandy was probably just a mistake of the design of the algorithms.

[MegaBadExample]

You know, if Joker and the crew still crash on that damn plannet I'm still gonna be pissed. That was just when the wheels completely fell off IMO. You can't fix the ending by adding another short scene with Shepard and his/her LI and expect things to be fine. The relays blew up... Ain't everyone supposed to be dead? And stranded in the Sol system? Bioware have gotta address that.

Ignore all the fanboys and girls whining about their love interests and little blue babies.

[ParagonX30]

Can anyone access Jessica Merizans Twitter??? 

Modifié par ParagonX30, 05 avril 2012 - 06:37 .

[Persephone]

zoompooky wrote...

Persephone wrote...

zoompooky wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Super.Sid wrote...

Ms Merizan has said a few good things that are expected. But if we are deceived like before then the outcome will be far worse.

Jessica is a smart lady. I doubt she'd be saying these things without authorization.

So?  Casey said all KINDS of things that ended up being completely false.

Jessica is NOT Casey Hudson. Individual people deserve individual treatment.

It's not just an individual.  Many people (including Casey) made many promises on game features or scope which turned out to be false. 

At this point, BioWare is BioWare.

Sure, generalize all you like.

[Oilking72]

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

Soooo, finally some news and it's the second to worst thing you could have done which is to attempt to "clarify" the current endings.

Firstly, you cannot clarify an ending which makes absolutely no goddamn sense, so releasing this DLC will not help the issue at all, even if it is free.

Secondly, WHO THE HELL...SERIOUSLY...HELL decided to call this the Extended Cut?!? Whoever it was should get fired quicker than a ball out of a cannon. The extended cut in movies usually comprises of incomplete parts which have been cut then completed later to add to the film in order to add more content (in other words DLC, or in the case of Javik, part of the actual game.) Adding an unwanted extension is stupid when replacing the broken part of the game should have been the priority!!!

RetakeME3, I implore you, hold the goddamn line, this is ridiculous and insulting to the entire Mass Effect franchise and BioWare fans!

You can hold your little line, but this is it.  This is what they're doing whether you like it or not.  And don't presume to speak for Bioware fans.  You speak for yourself and no one else.

If you don't like it you and others can actually follow through and stop supporting Bioware in the future and please stop hanging around here bombarding everyone with the same repetitive nonesense over and over.  I'm seriously sick of the word "ending" at this point.

[Dreadstruck]

I am suprised. And for free? Double suprised, let's see how that turns out.

Boobs, torture and cleavage?

Don't forget,emphasis on the word "ploughing"

and sex cards.

Also excellent writing, non-cliché characters, interesting world and a plot and ending that doesn't suck.
Course, people who can't see past the stuff mentioned above will be naturally missing out.

And lol, there are still people throwing around the word misogynist?

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 05 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[Super.Sid]

zoompooky wrote...

Persephone wrote...

zoompooky wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Super.Sid wrote...

Ms Merizan has said a few good things that are expected. But if we are deceived like before then the outcome will be far worse.

Jessica is a smart lady. I doubt she'd be saying these things without authorization.

So?  Casey said all KINDS of things that ended up being completely false.

Jessica is NOT Casey Hudson. Individual people deserve individual treatment.

It's not just an individual.  Many people (including Casey) made many promises on game features or scope which turned out to be false. 

At this point, BioWare is BioWare.

But they do know the implications of lying a 2nd time. They have already experienced it first hand.You don't make the same mistake twice.

[Lassiveran]

Seriously, If we just do not get your artistic vision ending why don't you just answer all our speculative questions in a post and be done with it. This is getting rediculous with the PR spin. I do not need this level of frustration with a video game aimed at providing me with entertainment. I'll just uninstall Mass Effect 3 head canon the ending and be done with the series. There is plenty of other developers providing me with less frustrating entertainment value for my dollar.

[Mmw04014]

Persephone wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

I'm glad a lot of people are happy about this. I'm not one of them.

I won't be downloading this at all because it isn't what I wanted or what I think the ending of Mass Effect deserves. I expected this however. They lied all throughout development, they are continuing to lie now, so when they claimed they were "listening," I didn't believe a word of it.

So....you are judging content you know nothing about yet?

Ok.

I know exactly the same you do. 1) There will be no new endings. 2) There will only be more cutscenes. I can extrapolate that there will be no new dialogue.

Both of those things are what I didn't want, so I think I have enough information to make a judgement.

There will be more cutscenes and there will be EPILOGUES. Loads of potential there.

No, you don't. You cannot judge something you don't know.

I'll repeat it again. That isn't what I wanted. If it's what you wanted, good for you. You see potential. I see potential for things I didn't want.

I can judge whatever I want. They presented information about the product and I don't feel it's for me, so I won't download it. Don't act like all they said was "THIS IS DLC" and stopped there. They gave us information.

[PiEman]

Arkitekt wrote...

novaova wrote...

The content of the announcement will fracture the fanbase, enabling Bioware to divide and conquer. By making it free, the people who were demanding only that it be free are satisfied. By providing closure, the people who only wanted closure will be satisfied. By doubling down and standing by the existing ending, the people who argued on the side of "artistic integrity" will be reinforced.

This will pit all of the above against the most important group: the ones who said that the ending is terrible, for reasons which have been already established in countless epic forum posts and video deconstructions. (And make no mistake, the ending is terrible, and clarifying it is like polishing a coprolite.) Those who insist that the ending is terrible will be increasingly marginalized.

Instead of seeing this as the "us vs them", you should probably reread what you wrote there in a less cynical fashion, and realize that it is a compromise. They clearly want the game stand as it is now, they believe in their ending. Perhaps they are dumb, perhaps they are morons, perhaps they are right. However, it's their choice, we should respect it.

However, they did concede that there was a major problem in the reception of the game, and so they are willing to give to many players what they wanted, as you put it, closure, being free, and maintaining artistic integrity.

You can view this as a battle technique of "divide and conquer" if you are cynical enough, but if you put those glasses of venom aside, you will realise that it was inevitable that a good chunk of the player base would be unhappy no matter the decision they would take.

Of course, some people will think that it's either their way or the high way, that BioWare is just WRROOONG because they do not cater to everything they want from them. Well, though luck. I count myself among those who thought out what I think are much better endings than they are right now, better mechanics at the end, better framing, etc. I know I would love to see a better designed ending and that is not gonna happen. I see that BioWare caved and is providing a lot of material work for free to give us half of what has been asked. I am not extremely happy, but sufficiently pleased.

It isn't because "they didn't cater to everything we want from them" it's because they BLATANTLY LIED about what the endings would be like.

For the millionth time, we were told by Casey Hudson (and several others who have been quoted on this very site in this very forum) that the endings would be different based on our choices throughout the games. We were even specifically told that it would not be an "A, B, C" ending...right before being given an ABC ending.

But once again, lowered standards and disregard for anyone who cares about video games will apparently prevail...

[zoompooky]

Persephone wrote...

There will be more cutscenes and there will be EPILOGUES. Loads of potential there.

No, you don't. You cannot judge something you don't know.

That works both ways.  You're telling the negative posters that they can't judge because it's not out yet, but telling positive ones that it's exactly what you wanted.  How do you know it's "EXACTLY" what you wanted if you can't judge?



Nobody knows what it is yet.  So I'm going on the information at hand and BioWare's track record to form my opinion.

[TheMadLieut]

who needs to change all the actual 6 endings? just add a few more that makes sense...so all the community will be happy and none will have any problem...this is starting to get really lame....

[XMasterPrime]

Can't wait for all these people claiming to never buy Bioware games to actually leave the Bioware forums.

[Persephone]

[quote]Avalla'ch wrote...

[quote]LinksOcarina wrote...
Boobs, torture and cleavage?[/quote]
[quote]Don't forget,emphasis on the word "ploughing"
[quote]and sex cards.[/quote]

Also excellent writing, interesting characters and a plot and ending that doesn't suck.
Course, people who can't see past the stuff mentioned above will be naturally missing out.
[/quote]

Eh. TW2 promised 16 endings. It has three at best. (Yet nobody calls CDPR out on that LIE)

I thought that TW2's endings, no, the entire third act, was a letdown. They are EXPANDIN it now....hmmmmm.....

[N7Infernox]

You think that they'd at least tell us which ending plotholes they are planning to address.

You know... as proof that they were actually listening.

[DDG4005]

I'm glad it's free, at least until April 2014, and despite everything regarding the ending I have hope it will satisfy.  Thank you BW.

[Noelemahc]

Zujiro wrote...
No. Thats not how it works. We need to made noise NOW. And I mean so much noise that they stop to consider the ramifications of not replacing the entire ending completely. Right now they are sitting comfortably on the "Meh they'll suck it up" level. We need to take it to a point where they actually apologize to the fans and not take a firm "hurr durr artistic integrity" stance.

An apology - an acceptance they they made a mistake and that fans do, in fact, know what they want and that they (BW), for reasons that are known only to themselves, utterly and completely failed to deliver this - is the only way they will even bother to consider their future decisions.

I say we need to make noise. And that it should be loud enough to give giants pause.

Wonderful points there!

As it stands, the Deus Ex Machina is a cop-out. Promises to expand ON IT, despite it being pointed out specifically as THE reason for the dislike of the ending, shows willingness to resort to more cop-outs instead of admitting artistic error and retconning it away entirely. Yes, I'm aware that it's costly, and will take time. Provided the hypothetical "Properly Planned Out and Almost As Good As Dragon Age Origins Ending DLC With More Than One Real Ending" is what it says on the tin, I would be willing to shell out real live money for it, if only to pay the wages of the voice actors and the composers who are the unwitting pawns in this sordid affair. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Where and when did someone tell Mr. Hudson that resorting to a Deus Ex Machina resolution, especially so blatantly trifold one (after all it is, a) a Deus Ex Machina plot device; an actual God From The Machine; c) a rip-off of the Deus Ex ™ Traditional Ending Options ®), is a good solution, instead of telling that it is not only indicative of artistic impotence, but also simply plain wrong and unkind to the viewers/players?

[Persephone]

N7Infernox wrote...

You think that they'd at least tell us which ending plotholes they are planning to address.

You know... as proof that they were actually listening.

PAX might yield those answers. If, rather than complaining, people would actually ASK constructive questions.

[MaldororAzrael]

Persephone wrote...

MaldororAzrael wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MaldororAzrael wrote...

Ok, that's it.

Call me "an eternally unhappy, impossible to please, entitled fanboy" but the extended cut is not what I've been hoping for... I think the description they provided makes it clear enough that there is nothing there for me to wait for. Current endings possess bargain bin quality of writing, few extra cutscenes won't fix those enormous plotholes.

Thank you for all these years and games Bioware, but it's time for us to part our ways. I'm taking my money elsewhere, I think I like CD Project's "artistic vision" better.

Boobs, torture and cleavage?

I take it you prefer Miranda's bum zoom ins, Diana Aller's cleavage and a universe where everyone is bisexual and fancies your character? You seem to have a very limited view of The Witcher series, I recommend reading the books it's based on.

Er... not everyone is bisexual AT ALL.

Jack, Miranda, Thane, Garrus, Tali, Jacob....all straight.

Bi: Diana, Kaidan, Ash, Liara (I guess)

Gay: Traynor and Cortez

And seriously, TW is way more boobtastic than ME ever was. Look at Triss' outfits!!

Sorry, I was exagerating for the comparison purposes. You are of course right, but I am definitely tired of "everyone out to get Shepard" thing... Hardly a Bioware's fault in itself though, romance options tend to pretty cheesy in most games these days.

Regarding Triss's outfits - true, but again, its based on the book depiction of the character... Anyway, that's enough of CD Project comments from me, as this becomes off topic. 

[BouncyCaitian]

Time Lord 117 wrote...

It was a fun ride, but all good things have to come to an end and BioWare has come to an end for me. good luck your going to need it. "artistic integrity"
I think Dragon commander  will be the next game I move on to and hope they dont pull a BioWare at the end.

Wouldn't that be pulling a 'George Lucas'?

[zoompooky]

Super.Sid wrote...

But they do know the implications of lying a 2nd time. They have already experienced it first hand.You don't make the same mistake twice.

What implications are those again?  Buckets of money?  Totally getting away with it?  Legions of fanboys defending their every move?

[Mylia Stenetch]

Zujiro wrote...
No. Thats not how it works. We need to made noise NOW. And I mean so much noise that they stop to consider the ramifications of not replacing the entire ending completely. Right now they are sitting comfortably on the "Meh they'll suck it up" level. We need to take it to a point where they actually apologize to the fans and not take a firm "hurr durr artistic integrity" stance.

An apology - an acceptance they they made a mistake and that fans do, in fact, know what they want and that they (BW), for reasons that are known only to themselves, utterly and completely failed to deliver this - is the only way they will even bother to consider their future decisions.

I say we need to make noise. And that it should be loud enough to give giants pause.

No it is done. They will not be going back and scrapping an ending complety. Also they are not sitting there telling "you" to "suck it up" and 
"hurr durr artistic integrity" . They would not of done this without complaints, this is what is has brought us the building of closure and smoothing out some wrinkles. They wrote the story and are proud of what the did in the long run. You have to eventually learn when to fold them.

A company will NEVER appolgise for a mistake, that is a common past of history. As I said earlier doing this you will be playing into the people that have been dispised so much here recently (IGN, Gamespot, Esacpist, etc), cause it will be looked like an entitled whiner.

Also to state that you did do something where you made them "fix" the ending, people can spin it like that and say "that's nice we will no wait for you to make this a true work of your standards". This is how you put a precendent on them that you expect the best out of this, not screaming to the mountains.

[AVPen]

ParagonX30 wrote...

Can anyone access Jessica Merizans Twitter??? 

https://mobile.twitter.com/jessicamerizan

 

Modifié par AVPen, 05 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[Dreadstruck]

Persephone wrote...
Eh. TW2 promised 16 endings. It has three at best. (Yet nobody calls CDPR out on that LIE)

I thought that TW2's endings, no, the entire third act, was a letdown. They are EXPANDIN it now....hmmmmm.....

I don't agree.

Ended in a cliffhanger, but still, take a look at this:
http://witcher.wikia...itcher_2_ending

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 05 avril 2012 - 06:44 .