3841 réponses à ce sujet

[poerksen]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

It's a story, people! It's trying to tell you something and it's not what space-DNA looks like!
If you like that better, you can just pretend Shepard got shot by Harbinger and everything after that was just synapses in his fevered brain firing at random. The Reapers were constantly said to be unstoppable, so of course they win. Everyone else dies. Hurrah, logic.

Seriously, you're playing a game about massive invicbile alien sentient spaceship demons that hide in the 'dark space', people throwing 'biotic' magic around; aliens who EVERYONE finds attractive, mysterious beacons that impart ancient knowledge when you touch them... Should I go on? I mean.. were you REALLY surprised?

Biotics, Prothean beacons etc. is established science within the ME universe. making it just as valid as real science within the game world that is. Synthesis for instance just comes out of nowhere and with no explanation at all. Javik tells you how the beacons work and im sure there are codexpages explaining how biotics work. 

They were forced to defend themselves. They left the Quarians alone after they left Rannoch and they tried multiple times to reassure the Quarians that they were not a threat (during the Morning war). I would not call that a rebellion, they welcomed them back with open arms in my game. That does not sound like someone who refuses alligiance..... In fact they started "serving"/helping the quarians adjust to life on Rannoch. They seem quite fond of their creators...

Modifié par poerksen, 06 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Ryokun1989]

They were AIs, they were created by the Quarians. The Quarians wanted to destroy them, and they fought back. That's an act of rebellion (going against their masters' wishes, i.e. that they are destroyed).

Stop being an idiot.

[poerksen]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

@Ryokun1989 Why would you think you would meet what is behind the Reapers? ME1 clearly has them stating that their purpose is beyond our understanding.

THAT was the correct answer to the Reaper question, NOT some retarded "synthetics made to kill organics so they wouldn't get killed by their own synthetics...cuz starbrat synthetics are way more awsome at doing that than organic-built synthetics would be." THAT was a let down.

THAT answer is perfectly depicted here (I LOVE this one):

You barely get to know anything about the reapers, other than the cycle. Who are they? Who created them? Are they gods? Angels? Demons? From another galaxy? The result of a previous singularity which wiped out all organic life for tens of millions of years? No answer there. Are they even synthetics or are they something else? What does it mean when they 'ascend' species? Is it death? They make a new reaper out of them and they see themselves as 'nations'. What does that mean?
You deny that they have enough mystery about them left?

Funny video though

I think the problem with the reapers is that our view of them does not fit at all with what the starchid is telling us. Sovereign: We are independant, We have no beginning etc. Yet there is the starchild who clearly contradicts these statements made in ME1. He makes them sound like lame pawns and not the supervillains we liked.

[Ryokun1989]

I'll ask BioWare to add a codec entry on space magic and everything should be fine with you, right?

[acrb101]

The Quarians consider it an act of rebellion because the Geth went against their wishes; The Quarians wanted to destroy them. To outsiders, it is more self defense. The Quarians tried to kill them, the Geth defended themselves and chased the Quarians off the planet, and then stopped when the Quarians no longer posed a threat.

Sorry for the off topic-ness. It is my favorite subject of the war. 

Modifié par acrb101, 06 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[RyuujinZERO]

Getorex wrote...

He is lost in magical thinking.  He actually thinks in terms of spirits and essences where magic synthesis beams work (AM or FM broadcast?) to turn organic DNA (there is no other kind...ANYWHERE) into some "new kind of DNA".  There isn't any other kind.  DNA is DNA by definition.  It cannot be different or it wouldn't be, you know, DNA: deoxyribose nucleic acid.  What changes?  The deoxyribose?  The nucleic acid?  Into what?  Strings of magic beams?

I was addressing the BLUE ending numpty. The green ending IS complete nonsense.

Considering the reapers themselves are made out of the broken down matter of entire races, and they demonstratably exist as collective intelligences I don't see how the lack of obvious  "scientificness" invalidates the possibility of Shepard being broken down and merged with the citadel in context.

Eezo violates a bunch've laws but that is ok; it's science-fiction. Science fiction is essentially a socratic philsophy exercise. "What if [this impossible thing were possible]", within the ruels of this exercise we have established that you can wire peoples brains together pretty much to create collective cybernetic intelligences - the reapers. My post you passed off as space magic is jsut a logical extrapolation of the same thought exercise. "What if: Shepard was added to their collective intelligence after being broken down and is guiding them and that technology exists... what can we do with it?"

The green space magic ending I did not touch upon nor would I with a 200ft pole. The question it poses is retarded and the answers it gives us even more so:

Question: "What if we could fuse synthetic and organic life with the push of a button"
Answer: "it'd end all wars"

...total, nonsense.

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 06 avril 2012 - 03:47 .

[raepox]

Not what we asked ehj!

[Ryokun1989]

poerksen wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

@Ryokun1989 Why would you think you would meet what is behind the Reapers? ME1 clearly has them stating that their purpose is beyond our understanding.

THAT was the correct answer to the Reaper question, NOT some retarded "synthetics made to kill organics so they wouldn't get killed by their own synthetics...cuz starbrat synthetics are way more awsome at doing that than organic-built synthetics would be." THAT was a let down.

THAT answer is perfectly depicted here (I LOVE this one):

You barely get to know anything about the reapers, other than the cycle. Who are they? Who created them? Are they gods? Angels? Demons? From another galaxy? The result of a previous singularity which wiped out all organic life for tens of millions of years? No answer there. Are they even synthetics or are they something else? What does it mean when they 'ascend' species? Is it death? They make a new reaper out of them and they see themselves as 'nations'. What does that mean?
You deny that they have enough mystery about them left?

Funny video though

I think the problem with the reapers is that our view of them does not fit at all with what the starchid is telling us. Sovereign: We are independant, We have no beginning etc. Yet there is the starchild who clearly contradicts these statements made in ME1. He makes them sound like lame pawns and not the supervillains we liked.

Consider for instance in Christian mythology the relation between God and angels. They are seperate, act independently (for instance, an angel gives Adam his flaming sword against God's wishes when he is cast out of the Garden of Eden), have no beginning (there is never any mention of when they are created) and yet they are the servants of God and ostensibly under his control.
This relationship seems to me to be echoed in the Reapers/Starchild.

Sovereign's speech is another example of 'space magic' though.

[poerksen]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

I'll ask BioWare to add a codec entry on space magic and everything should be fine with you, right?

Sure
Introducing new concepts and characters in the last couple of minutes of a game is lousy writing. Oh by the way you also have this option.... how convinient.

[shepLJ]

LDSJediMaster wrote...

While I will try to refrain from too harsh of a judgement until release, I highly doubt this is the end of the controversy the Bioware/EA was hoping for. Either way your still stuck with dooming the galaxy into a new dark age and never seeing your friends and loved ones as is. All in all the ending seems to be a giant insult to what I feel is the spirit and message of the series, that is you can overcome any challenge, no matter how hard the obstacles or how long the odds. The only message I get from the ending of what should be the most epic sci-fi saga to date is that no matter how hard you try, no matter what you overcome, you ultimately have no choice, or control, your still screwed.

mmm seems pretty much what is happening to the fan base by EA/BW - :

You the fan base hate our lies and our false advertsing.
You hate that after a 100 plus hours journey of two previous games we give you non choice in a conclusion of A/BC in the final game.

We ,the company thank you for your great detailed and intelligent analysis of plot holes. space magic: inconsistencies - in story arches, character misplacement and pure non logical choices.

We have your money now and we happen to love our creation - we are the creators - you are just the customers -
So it doesn't matter what you do, say, think, analyse, protest or publish - your screwed.

you forget EA/BW - we are the customers and its is our money that buys your product....

[Ryokun1989]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Getorex wrote...

He is lost in magical thinking.  He actually thinks in terms of spirits and essences where magic synthesis beams work (AM or FM broadcast?) to turn organic DNA (there is no other kind...ANYWHERE) into some "new kind of DNA".  There isn't any other kind.  DNA is DNA by definition.  It cannot be different or it wouldn't be, you know, DNA: deoxyribose nucleic acid.  What changes?  The deoxyribose?  The nucleic acid?  Into what?  Strings of magic beams?

I was addressing the BLUE ending numpty. The green ending IS complete nonsense.

Considering the reapers themselves are made out of the broken down matter of entire races, and they demonstratably exist as collective intelligences I don't see how the lack of obvious  "scientificness" invalidates the possibility of Shepard being broken down and merged with the citadel in context.

Eezo violates a bunch've laws but that is ok; it's science-fiction. Science fiction is essentially a socratic philsophy exercise. "What if [this impossible thing were possible]", within the ruels of this exercise we have established that you can wire peoples brains together pretty much to create collective cybernetic intelligences - the reapers. My post you passed off as space magic is jsut a logical extrapolation of the same thought exercise. "What if: Shepard was added to their collective intelligence after being broken down and is guiding them and that technology exists... what can we do with it?"

The green space magic ending I did not touch upon nor would I with a 200ft pole. The question it poses is retarded and the answers it gives us even more so:

Question: "What if we could fuse synthetic and organic life with the push of a button"
Answer: "it'd end all wars"

...total, nonsense.

I don't think it ever claimed to end any wars.. after all, there are plenty of wars between just organics in the Mass Effect universe.

[Shockpix]

Honestly, I can appreciate artistic integrity. It's nice to see game companies take that kind of liberty with their storytelling. The problem is that this is not the correct series to do that with. Bioware promised a diverse array of endings based on 5 years of playstyle choices, but instead pidgeonhole all of them into one ending because they felt like playing Shyamalan.

They've already declared that this DLC will not address any of the concerns the majority of the fanbase has with the one ending they produced... why are they bothering to work on it? It won't make them any money (silver lining I guess, though I wouldn't have paid for it after an announcement like that anyway), and it won't fix the problem. So why?

I was hoping Bioware would use that "artistic integrity" to create more diverse endings for such an incredibly unique series. The fact that they've chosen to drop the ball in such a astonishingly self-absorbed way is just incredible - I'm still in disbelief.

I've said it before: The ending was fine, if it was one of many. In an ending where you played not Paragon, not Renegade, but Indecisive Shepard would have made sense to have your story lead to those 3 decisions and that conclusion. But what about the rest of us? The majority of us? They can't make that the only ending and honestly expect anyone to be ok with that. That's just stupid.

Please fix this while you still have fans that care about it - because soon it won't even matter and everyone will move on to other developers that walk their talk.

[Noelemahc]

Having slept on the thought of what this DLC will bring, I still stand by my point: unless it contains an option to refuse to use the Crucible from the moment it is revealed to be of Reaper origin (i.e. from the moment you get to talk to Vendetta on Cronos Station), it will be viewed as a failed attempt at shutting up the fans.

For most Shepards, accepting ANY of the Catalysts options is an OOC moment. Synthesis is unacceptable because it invalidates all of ME1 (Saren was... right?) and most of ME3's peace efforts; Control is hilariously vague and invalidates Casey Hudson's promises of there not being a Reaper "OFF" switch (as well as everything and anything Sovereign and Harbinger EVER said -- is that why Harbinger never speaks in ME3? For fear of breaking the story FURTHER?), Destroy is only acceptable to Shepards who have genocided the geth. Which, while numerous, are not the largest part of the fanbase, with all due respect.

And it still does nothing to alleviate the A/B/C nature of the ending, the fact that resorting to Deus Ex Machina is still a cop-out, and that BioWare didn't pay enough attention to what the fanbase is saying.

I'm afraid that you will find this space station to be fully ope-- oh, wait, wrong cue card.

I'm afraid that BioWare failed the moment they did not say "Oh, crap, we totally forgot we promised sixteen diverse and choice-reflecting endings instead of the single ending with a color wheel attached we put in! It's totally on the THIRD disc of the game which we simply forgot to ship". Or a variation thereof, I'm really not picky about it.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 06 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Ryokun1989]

Shockpix wrote...

Honestly, I can appreciate artistic integrity.

Then why is the rest of your post about undermining the story BioWare wanted to tell?

[Gaviteros]

Not that it matters to the horde of people who feel betrayed, but I absolutely loved the whole game including the endings. Pretty much all of them.

I felt a serious sense of loss, and sadness. Sure I want more closure, so I welcome this DLC.

[Fezztheeelite2]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Shockpix wrote...

Honestly, I can appreciate artistic integrity.

Then why is the rest of your post about undermining the story BioWare wanted to tell?

Ryokun, stop being a troll. I have seen nothing but you dissagreeing with people just to disagree. Let people b**ch if they want too. A lot of people are upset about their Shep mistreatment. I include my self in that. And I get that you are just objecting to get something started. <_<

[CerberusCheerleader]

Sidney wrote...

CerberusCheerleader wrote...
This is getting old ...
Yes, it is their story and no, as a writer you can't just write anything. You have an obligation to write something that makes sense, that is plausible and logical, that follows established rules and respects the lore, something that is consistent with what came before.
All of this is violated by the ending. It disrespects the invested player and is an insult to anyone who is interested and pays attention.

So much basically wrong in the article:

"In contrast to the exquisite, if occasionally opaque, ways the player's
decisions dictated the outcome of Shepard's suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3's finale is essentially a railroad." No, the problem in ME3 is that you get almost exactly the same effect except instead of your lack of preparation killing Jack it kills the earth. Just like in ME2 there is a math formula that tallies up live and die options. The amazing thing is the author doesn't see that when, unlike ME2, Bioware puts the $%^&# number right on the screen for you to see.

"is a minor problem compared to what the game itself states will be the result of the exploding relays." When will people stop with this. It is like they cannot see what is in front of their eys. A "ruptured relay" is bad. A relay that fires off all its enegery and then collapses isn't.

I don't know if I can explain it better than the guy in the article, but here goes.

I ME2 you had to have several squad members to be loyal and the Normandi fully upgraded, while in ME3 everything boils down to just one big number. And this number isn't even particularly hard to get. One complain that players had I think is that you can get the amount of points necceassary to not blow up earth even if you did the worst renegade playthrough possible and deliberatly made every decision as 'false' as possible. Also, in the ending mission in ME2 you had to make some tactical decisions (see, that's important) something that is comletely missing in ME3.

As for what happens when a mass relay color-exlodes: lots of speculation?
We know that the destruction of a Mass Relay results in a supernova explosion. Is it different here? We don't know for sure. What we do know is that Shepard should have asked the ghost child that, to make sure she doesn't blow up half the galaxy. What do you think is more likely? That the writers were like: "Shouldn't we tell the player at this point that blowing up the mass relays here isn't as bad as it used to be? - Nah, they will assume that anyway, lets just skip that."? Or isn't it more likely that they just didn't think this through? Which is an insult to a player who does. I have to admit, I didn't immediatly realize this possible implication of destroying the mass relays. Which is exactly the articles point: the more you think about it and the more you know the worse the ending becomes.

Modifié par CerberusCheerleader, 06 avril 2012 - 04:16 .

[poerksen]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

poerksen wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

@Ryokun1989 Why would you think you would meet what is behind the Reapers? ME1 clearly has them stating that their purpose is beyond our understanding.

THAT was the correct answer to the Reaper question, NOT some retarded "synthetics made to kill organics so they wouldn't get killed by their own synthetics...cuz starbrat synthetics are way more awsome at doing that than organic-built synthetics would be." THAT was a let down.

THAT answer is perfectly depicted here (I LOVE this one):

You barely get to know anything about the reapers, other than the cycle. Who are they? Who created them? Are they gods? Angels? Demons? From another galaxy? The result of a previous singularity which wiped out all organic life for tens of millions of years? No answer there. Are they even synthetics or are they something else? What does it mean when they 'ascend' species? Is it death? They make a new reaper out of them and they see themselves as 'nations'. What does that mean?
You deny that they have enough mystery about them left?

Funny video though

I think the problem with the reapers is that our view of them does not fit at all with what the starchid is telling us. Sovereign: We are independant, We have no beginning etc. Yet there is the starchild who clearly contradicts these statements made in ME1. He makes them sound like lame pawns and not the supervillains we liked.

Consider for instance in Christian mythology the relation between God and angels. They are seperate, act independently (for instance, an angel gives Adam his flaming sword against God's wishes when he is cast out of the Garden of Eden), have no beginning (there is never any mention of when they are created) and yet they are the servants of God and ostensibly under his control.
This relationship seems to me to be echoed in the Reapers/Starchild.

Sovereign's speech is another example of 'space magic' though.

Well, wouldn't the angels know when they themselves were created?
The fact that sovereign states otherwise just sounds like a lot of hubris and an attempt to make themselves seem more intimidating etc. 
Maybe they can't count the number of years 

Independant, yet under control mmhhhh :/ You are not really independant, when you are doing your master's bidding. That is just my oppinion. We are arguing semantics. The godchild still de-mystifies the reapers, I would rather have kept them a mystery. Makes all the more intimidating. Their origin would have made for a good post-game discussion or speculation.

Thx for the discussion folks. Have to leave my pc now, so I will not be back for a while. Glad that we could discuss these topics in a civil fashion, eventhough one guy called me an idiot at one point  English is not my native language, so i apologise for my poor use of the language in some cases. It can be difficult to present an argument in a foreign language, if you are not used to it.

[AndrewRogue]

I want to express my sympathy for Bioware's writers. It is my relatively sincere belief that this was not really the ending they had in mind.

Honestly, there are ways the three choices ending could have been handled that were palatable. There were ways a lot of the concepts could have been palatable. Unfortunately, these were not them.

I will continue to believe that the people who did the first two games, and the majority of the third, are not particularly proud of this.

[FanHarel]

Great, now can you please fix the face import patch? The ending was never my issue. Not being able to play through the entire trilogy as my original Shepard was my biggest concern.

[floppypig]

Phew. good to hear Chris. I also thought there wasn't enough closure at the end and this seems to be exactly what is required to fix that.

I'm glad you guys didn't cave and change the endings - there's nothing wrong with them except the fact that they're not "fleshed out" enough.

I do agree with someone above who said fix the import thing first though lol. That really should take priority. If I may ask, really just out of curiosity, how does a bug like that get through? Did not one person test an ME1 save??

Annnyway, I look forward to the extended cut. From what I've been reading in the thread, I am in a serious minority, but for what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing

Good luck!

[Shockpix]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Shockpix wrote...

Honestly, I can appreciate artistic integrity.

Then why is the rest of your post about undermining the story BioWare wanted to tell?

As soon as they insisted that their singular ending encompass all possible endings in a universe of possibilities (that we were led to expect both through amazing gameplay and constant reassurance) they failed at their goal.

It's not that it's a terrible ending (I would aim to avoid it every single play-through, but I can see why someone might enjoy it I guess?), it's that it's the only one and it doesn't reflect my Shepard, the universe, or anything that was part of my campaign for all 3 games. Why would they create only one ending when there are at least 3 different ways to play a Shepard - and 3 is being extremely conservative.

What they've accomplished isn't artistic integrity, it's holding the series hostage and stifling its potential - it was destined for greatness but they fell short... they fell short a lot.

Like I said, I can appreciate artistic integrity, but they'd need to display some first. Right now they're just knowingly destroying the series and its fanbase.

It's really not even about Mass Effect at this point though. My faith in the gaming industry as a whole has been shaken, I need to know there's still hope out there, but it doesn't look like Bioware wants to be the one to rekindle that.

[VictorVRN]

 If Bioware said that it would be only a couple of movies with no additional gameplay,there is a chance that everything will be the opposite. Because I do not remember any of Bioware promises over the past couple of years, which turned out to be true. Until I see with my own eyes - I will not believe. Well, if everything said is true, is another matter. They say: "BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise". They say they believe in their artistic choices. In this case, I believe in my choice (which all the other players really want to) and do notbuy any of their games or DLC, because of the boorish attitude toward yourself as afan of the series of Mass Effect and Bioware (second - up to the recent past). Sorry for my bad English.

[Brian.V3]

in the words of the late eddard stark...

WINTER IS COMING.

if Extended Cut fails to deliver on the closure of the characters we have grown to love in the three games... then, BioWare clearly did not listen or hear their fans.