3841 réponses à ce sujet

[Tocquevillain]

kalle90 wrote...
There's way less than 50% of the original Shepard left.

What evidence do you have proving this? 

In ME2's cinematics, all that is shown is Shepard's bone being reknitted and various bones being connected with metal plates, and injections stimulating arteries. There's absolutely nothing that suggests entire body parts were replaced.

[Gatt9]

Getorex wrote...

CommanderDJ wrote...

I know that my voice is just one of many, and so probably doesn't carry much weight. I will still give it if BioWare or anyone can gain something from it: whilst like many I would have preferred to see changed endings, I recognise that a rewrite would be nontrivial in terms of resources, distribution, and cost. Done correctly, an epilogue would at least be able to give the closure that I (and others) seek. I admit I was initially sceptical of an epilogue, but I then found this:
shannon.users.sonic.net/masseffect
It's a (still WIP) fan-made epilogue generator that takes into account your choices and provides closure both in the larger terms of galactic society and in the personal terms of your Shepard and squadmates, friends and LI. It's not perfect, but the quality of the writing is enough that I have head-canoned this. Hopefully BioWare takes inspiration from this and delivers a quality epilogue that leaves us satisfied and does the trilogy justice.

What you are saying is that Bioware is less competent at their jobs than Bethesda, makers of Fallout series.  Bethesda DID find the capability of rewriting/redoing the ending of Fallout 3.  Yes they did.  Bioware is not as good as those developers are.  That is what you are suggesting.

I guess I have to agree.  Ipso facto.

Just for the record,  Bethesda isn't the "Makers of Fallout series",  that would be Black Isle.  Bethesda bought the rights to the series,  and then proceeded to turn it into TES with guns.  Bethesda has been making the same game for 15 years,  with fewer features and bigger bugs in each release.  If that's our measurement of quality,  gaming is in more trouble than every I thought.

[Getorex]

kalle90 wrote...

Getorex wrote...
He was a cyborg the way Adam Jenson was in DE:HR.  He is a HUMAN with biomechanical replacements.  He's a cyborg the same way Darth Cheney was with his pacemaker, the way all people with insulin pumps are, the way all people with robot/mechanic replacement arms or hands are.  In other words, they AREN'T cyborgs.  They are just humans with prosthetics and replacement parts.  

More Human Revolution I see... You must really like it.

Anyway after the beginning of ME2 Shepard was in way, way worse condition than Adam or Cheney are. How much of the original Shepard could they keep and use? He didn't need just a new spine or heart, he needed a complete makeover. Even then thinking he isn't just a clone of the original is a stretch. There's way less than 50% of the original Shepard left.

Yes, I do like it (style, play) but also because I'm replaying now instead of playing anything ME. 

The main reason Shepard was killed/rejuvinated in ME2 was to reset all the powers in a clumsy way, mainly for the dilettantes that came into the series at 2 and ignored/blew off 1.  Any story beyond that is tacked on.  VERY clumsy story point (did I say VERY clumsy?).  If they can clone part of him, they can clone ALL of him (that's how cloning works).  No need for a metal spine, electric kidney, vibrating neumatic extendable  penis, etc.  Very clumsy...but I think I said that already.  Didn't I?  Yeah, I'm sure I did.

Tali is part synthetic (they use implanted synthetic gizmos to interact with their suits and such.  Theee would likely be any number of people roaming around in the game universe with greater or lessor levels of synthetic enhancement. 

[Wolfenrot]

Guys, wait a minute.
There is something wrong here.
Why we had to wait until this summer, if they only want to add some cinematics scenes that would
need nothing but 2 or 3 weeks to be done?
Think about it.
And... Why do we need online pass, xbox gold and all that stuff to get a some minutes in cinematics that we
all know to appear on youtube 10 minutes after?
I think Bioware is hiding something.
I think DLC (or DLCs?) will be bigger than expectations.
Sorry for my bad english, anyway. I'm italian.

Modifié par Wolfenrot, 06 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[kalle90]

SalsaDMA wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

Getorex wrote...
He was a cyborg the way Adam Jenson was in DE:HR.  He is a HUMAN with biomechanical replacements.  He's a cyborg the same way Darth Cheney was with his pacemaker, the way all people with insulin pumps are, the way all people with robot/mechanic replacement arms or hands are.  In other words, they AREN'T cyborgs.  They are just humans with prosthetics and replacement parts.  

More Human Revolution I see... You must really like it.

Anyway after the beginning of ME2 Shepard was in way, way worse condition than Adam or Cheney are. How much of the original Shepard could they keep and use? He didn't need just a new spine or heart, he needed a complete makeover. Even then thinking he isn't just a clone of the original is a stretch. There's way less than 50% of the original Shepard left.

Truth be told, I always thought Project Lazy'R'us was too much spacemagic in ME2.

Yes it was, green ending isn't the only trick there is. That's why I'd be fine if we just got an overhaul and closure. Bioware can explain many of the things away, which leaves a couple I can just deal with it.

[Cantthinkofaname]

Well considering only the minority (as the word 'some' implies) I fully understand why they ignored their fanbase... because, you know, those that don't come on the forum never agree with those that do...

Modifié par Cantthinkofaname, 06 avril 2012 - 03:08 .

[Little Mama]

The ending doesn’t need a clarification, it needs a modification!

(And that [you] BioWare are making it free just tells us fans how much *effort* you'll put into it..)

[Getorex]

DigitalAvatar wrote...

Getorex wrote...
Synthetics (metal/computer type as in ME) do not have DNA so how can there be a "synthetic" form of DNA that makes you part synthetic/part organic?  ALL DNA, RNA, PNA is ORGANIC by definition!

I love your bioscience expertise delivering smackdowns to the concept of the green ending!
My rants about it tend to focus on the lack of mechanism for such a change, what even defines a "synthetic" (software? hardware? an arbitrary combination? do EDI's AI core computer banks on the Normandy convert to organic material or does it only affect her mobile platform for some reason?) , the fact that there wouldn't be any point to changing DNA if it didn't change anything else, and the fact that I don't see how it could be done without effectively changing the subject into a different person entirely.
The entire ending concept is a cluster**** of insanity.

Getorex wrote...
Blue ending kills you so your ghost haunts the Reapers into going back to dark space.  Send in the ghost hunters!

I'd like to call the Ghostbusters to take a shot at Casper the Catalyst.

Hey!  THERE'S an ending!  Bring in the Ghostbusters to take down star-turd while Shepard stands back and watches with his/her arms folded, nodding his head in approval. 

THEN we get to the closing song and dance number!  

[Getorex]

Wolfenrot wrote...

Guys, wait a minute.
There is something wrong here.
Why we had to wait until this summer, if they only want to add some cinematics scenes that would
need nothing but 2 or 3 weeks to be done?
Think about it.
And... Why do we need online pass, xbox gold and all that stuff to get a some minutes in cinematics that we
all know to appear on youtube 10 minutes after?
I think Bioware is hiding something.
I think DLC (or DLCs?) will be bigger than expectations.
Sorry for my bad english, anyway. I'm italian.

I wouldn't read too much into the whole online pass, xbox gold, etc.  Part DRM, part needed to download and authorize the addition. 

As for taking time...they are likely ALSO doing pre-ending DLC work, some people have been shifted to some other project, etc.  So it takes time to do something they didn't originally plan on.  Even a slapdash cut-and-paste ending needs SOME planning and thought.  Just barely...maybe about as much as they put into the ending so no big sweat.

[ChampDude]

I think a lot of people are jumping the gun here. We've given Bioware a chance here and we will just have to wait and see what they do with it. I will remain cautiously optimistic that this Extended Cut will fix many of the problems I have (I would be crazy to think it will fix all of them) but this is a whole lot better than nothing. Anxiously looking forward to summer

[Meara]

Oh come on !

We got one of the best game series ever.
Be content with your experience and
move on. The story is theirs to
write and conclude.

Of course anyone can voice an opinion but
all this moaning feels just like a bunch of
spoilt kids. This is not rl, it´s a game

What will be next ? Craving remake of Lord
of the Rings (aww, Frodo cannot disappear
like that, ´cause I paid the movie tickets
and did not get the closure I wanted!)

Dear God...

[Getorex]

ChampDude wrote...

I think a lot of people are jumping the gun here. We've given Bioware a chance here and we will just have to wait and see what they do with it. I will remain cautiously optimistic that this Extended Cut will fix many of the problems I have (I would be crazy to think it will fix all of them) but this is a whole lot better than nothing. Anxiously looking forward to summer

Sure...to a point.  I'll wait until it hits youtube, take a look, and if it is remotely satisfactory I will install my recently acquired secondhand copy of ME3 (I paid half what ya'll paid for your copies and Bioware didn't get any of it) and try it.  Might even do a replay.  Maybe. 

At any rate, unlike my original plan (or what I anticipated) I played my pre-ordered ME3 precisely ONE TIME.  Unlike both previous games, one time is all I could stomach.  I returned the game and started something else.  So I've moved on to totally different games from totally different developers.  If the change isn't satisfactory then Bioware will simply disappear in the distance on my rearview mirror.  No matter what though, I wont EVER pre-order again.  Once burned twice shy.

Modifié par Getorex, 06 avril 2012 - 03:20 .

[Thanatos144]

Wolfenrot wrote...

Guys, wait a minute.
There is something wrong here.
Why we had to wait until this summer, if they only want to add some cinematics scenes that would
need nothing but 2 or 3 weeks to be done?
Think about it.
And... Why do we need online pass, xbox gold and all that stuff to get a some minutes in cinematics that we
all know to appear on youtube 10 minutes after?
I think Bioware is hiding something.
I think DLC (or DLCs?) will be bigger than expectations.
Sorry for my bad english, anyway. I'm italian.

It takes longer than three week to render scenes.

[Heselrige]

I guess I'm gonna stroke my ego a bit, but It serves a purpose. I'm a writer--I've been nationally recognized for my non-fiction (in America), and I've recently kicked and wriggled my foot between the gates that guard the world of fiction writing. You must really, truly hate yourself--or at the very least admit that you're a masochist--to be willing to drown yourself in a flood of rejections for those small moments of recognition. It eventually gets easier (or so I've been told), but anytime you find yourself criticized, you have the opportunity to hone your art, refine your niche, and work your product to fit your audience and your goals. Criticism--cruel or kind, savvy or boorish--is useful if you know how to take it.

Before anything else is wrote, I need to acknowledge that I am not as well-established as Bioware's writers. That doesn't mean the guidelines that help writers build their reputation no longer apply to them; it just means that they're less likely to listen to criticism because they have the weight of a reputation to throw around. Reputations are dangerous though because there is always the temptation to believe that your reputation is somehow more than glorified opinion.

Bioware has a reputation for writing competent stories for its games. Bioware's writers had a strong core concept when they started work with Mass Effect 3, but when anyone works on something closely for an extended period of time, they'll eventually develop tunnel vision. Mass Effect 3's ending is a result of tunnel vision--the writers reached their intended target, but they didn't (or couldn't; time lines and bottom-line business quotas take precedence, I imagine) stop to see what sort of secondary and tertiary effects their end goal would prompt within the story-universe and they created and the audience they attracted. Now that their work is out, and a significant portion of their target audience is unhappy, Bioware's staff is falling back on their reputation (Bioware's reputation and influence to be accurate, since Bioware is the faceless umbrella entity that encapsulates each individual's work) to defend their work and its aesthetic. Its a perfectly natural reaction, and its completely understandable that the creators are defensive when the fans are unhappy--but there is a fantastic opportunity to be plucked out of all that strife. The Extended Cut is a step in the right direction--I can't weigh in on it until I experience it--but I think Bioware has stumbled onto a kairotic moment in video game history, and its designers and writers and project leads should put aside their prides, and look at the opportunities they could pass up if they don't take a moment to step out and away from their project, and soak in other opinions on their work by people who've experienced it from another angle.

[Thanatos144]

Little Mama wrote...

The ending doesn’t need a clarification, it needs a modification!

(And that [you] BioWare are making it free just tells us fans how much *effort* you'll put into it..)

Then send them money.......

[Wolfenrot]

Getorex wrote...
I wouldn't read too much into the whole online pass, xbox gold, etc.  Part DRM, part needed to download and authorize the addition. 

As for taking time...they are likely ALSO doing pre-ending DLC work, some people have been shifted to some other project, etc.  So it takes time to do something they didn't originally plan on.  Even a slapdash cut-and-paste ending needs SOME planning and thought.  Just barely...maybe about as much as they put into the ending so no big sweat.

I know about DRM. But I think there is too much emphasis this time.
By the way, I know that cinematics requires some time, but... Really, 3 months minimum?
Thats too much even for 20 mins sequence.
They will use actual game graphics, not an incredible avatar-like render.
I don't know what to think.
Imho there is something else here.

[Fenderbaum]

Or...

You're too stupid to understand our art, so we shall spell it out for you.

[Assassin Rex]

I didn't comment much on the mass effect 3 ending because as a loyal bioware fan I was too hurt and bitter and I didn't want to write and say things out of anger and frustration.

But this Bioware, is a new low. There is a saying which goes "polish a turd and it's still a turd". You guys at Bioware are sitting on these ending like you created art. Well guess what you didn't.

You said to us that you are listening and making changes. 90% of your fans want new endings period. Not some extended cut-scene of the same God-Child ending.

Yet you hide behind artistic vision and integrity. if this is art and vision then the industry is doomed and I might as well stop learning Games and Software design. To have created a lovable franchise and universe is not an easy task and it's shameful and painful to see it get destroyed with such cheapness.

Gears 3 finished and I couldn't care less about the ending, the same holds for a million other games out there. I'm pretty sure alot of other people feel that way. We ask you to change your ending because we care about your product.

yet you slap all of us, yes all of your fans with a nonsensical claim to artistic integrity. Anyways I am done. I have collected all mass effect games, comics and all the lot. But no more. I'll sell of what I can, I mean after all the mass relays have been destroyed. What continuity is there in the universe?

Sad thing is that I like many other people would have played mass effect 4 and beyond. If metal gear solid 5 came I would buy it day one because at least Hideo Kojima and Team Fox know how to give the fans an ending they deserved. Knew how to respect the fans and answer all questions.

Mass Effect was MY favourite franchise this gen. It's sad it went down the way it did. But now I know I am NEVER spending this much energy on any video game again ever. It's just something to play and while away time. No more emotional attachement and all that jazz.

Thank you bioware it was good while it lasted but like all great things, they come to and end. I'll continue to play the multiplayer and have fun with that. But as for replayabilty of the single player, it's zero and if mass effect 4 or mass effect: asari chronicles comes out, I'm not interested. My £60 means little to the other people right there.

Have a great day.
God bless.

[Getorex]

Fenderbaum wrote...

Or...

You're too stupid to understand our art, so we shall spell it out for you.

It's a game.  A consumer product.  A MASS MARKET consumer product.  It is as much "art" as the creepy clown paintings you might see in a Motel 8 room or a velvet painting of Elvis.  

Get off the idea that this is even remotely some high form of art.  It is product.


Now THIS is art: u

Modifié par Getorex, 06 avril 2012 - 03:29 .

[DigitalAvatar]

Meara wrote...
What will be next ? Craving remake of Lord
of the Rings (aww, Frodo cannot disappear
like that, ´cause I paid the movie tickets
and did not get the closure I wanted!)

The Lord of the Rings equivalent to the Mass Effect 3 ending would be if Frodo dropped the ring into Mount Doom, the volcano exploded, then we cut to a clip of the rest of the Fellowship stranded on an island (including Sam), then the credits roll.
I think people would be justifiably pissed.

Modifié par DigitalAvatar, 06 avril 2012 - 03:38 .

[Thanatos144]

Getorex wrote...

Fenderbaum wrote...

Or...

You're too stupid to understand our art, so we shall spell it out for you.

It's a game.  A consumer product.  A MASS MARKET consumer product.  It is as much "art" as the creepy clown paintings you might see in a Motel 8 room or a velvet painting of Elvis.  

Get off the idea that this is even remotely some high form of art.  It is product.


Now THIS is art: u[u]

So cause they sell a lot of them it isnt art?

[Matic1093]

Getorex wrote...
Now THIS is art: u[u]

That. Was. AWESOME! Thanks for showing us

[Fenderbaum]

Getorex wrote...

Fenderbaum wrote...

Or...

You're too stupid to understand our art, so we shall spell it out for you.

It's a game.  A consumer product.  A MASS MARKET consumer product.  It is as much "art" as the creepy clown paintings you might see in a Motel 8 room or a velvet painting of Elvis.  

Get off the idea that this is even remotely some high form of art.  It is product.


Now THIS is art: u[u]

Getorax....I never said it was art....Bioware did.  What you having a go at me for?

[METALPUNKS]

So awesome. Bioware did exactly what I said and what they needed to do. I'm so happy they didn't get pushed by the fans. They stood up for their ending just like I thought they would and that is what I wanted. Bioware is the best. Awesome thanks. Although I loves the ending I will be downloading the dlc, I want to see what they do.

[Getorex]

Fenderbaum wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Fenderbaum wrote...

Or...

You're too stupid to understand our art, so we shall spell it out for you.

It's a game.  A consumer product.  A MASS MARKET consumer product.  It is as much "art" as the creepy clown paintings you might see in a Motel 8 room or a velvet painting of Elvis.  

Get off the idea that this is even remotely some high form of art.  It is product.


Now THIS is art: u[u]

Getorax....I never said it was art....Bioware did.  What you having a go at me for?

Apologies.  I thought YOU were saying "we're too stupid to understand their 'art'".

So...nevermind.