132 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Not bothered by race, but when I start the game, I want to go straight to character creation.

ME3 actually got that right, so perhaps there's hope on that score.

[upsettingshorts]

Mermaid Claire wrote...

I never really thought of Varric having full control over the accepted "image" of Hawke. I saw him as helping to build the legend, but perhaps losing control over large parts as it went along. I suppose I could see it happening like this: 1) Varric describes Hawke's attributes during the stories and perhaps even gives a real account of what she looked like, 2) People hear the stories and immediately believe Hawke to be an attractive person whether she was or was not as their minds would tend to create an attractive image of the hero, 3) an artist who is a fan of the story creates a painting without Varric's input as to how they believe Hawke looked without any research at all, 4) people accept this painting as true and it becomes popular with fans of the legend. So when Varric goes to tell the story of Hawke from then on, he allows that legendary image to stay not because he necessarily wants to but it isn't like he will ever change the way Hawke is perceived once it is believed by the masses. This is how I always thought of it in my mind at least!

Yup.

Wulfram wrote...

Not bothered by race, but when I start the game, I want to go straight to character creation.

ME3 actually got that right, so perhaps there's hope on that score.

 

Mechanically speaking that IS annoying.

They could still have put the CC first, shown "canon" Hawke during the exaggerated sequence, then returned to your custom one as normal.  Players might have thought they were bugged though, so some kind of warning might have been necessary.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 avril 2012 - 12:52 .

[Lucy Glitter]

^ Yes, but that was never explained properly. So it just comes off as a little strange. That's the issue, here. 

I didn't like it either (that Hawke was assumed to be an attractive caucasian) but we can't change that now. 

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 06 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[berelinde]

As for the "iconic" Hawke in the very beginning, I thought Varric was just lying. He didn't want to give away a single thing about Hawke, not even appearance, so he just repeated back what was in front of him.

"What did he look like? What kind of question is that? He was big, heroic. He looked a lot like you, actually, except for being male. Same hair color, same eye color. And he had this awesome beard. I'm telling you, the thing had a life of its own!"

"What did she look like? What kind of question is that? She was magnificent. A bit like you, actually, except that she had eyes like sapphires. I swear, they just about glowed in the dark!"

Had Cassandra been Rivaini, iconic Hawke probably would have had darker skin.

[LobselVith8]

uknowitbeb wrote...

Coming from a person of color, I don't see the reason why you felt this "issue" needed to be addressed. It's the default Hawke, I don't see anything wrong with starting off as a white character. And it could easily be explained as what Varric wants people to think Hawke looks like.

You don't understand why I shared my opinion on a matter that I think warrants attention?

I already explained my position in the original thread. I don't see why you having a different opinion should supercede my right to share my own. There is no story reason for Hawke being white; he isn't white as a social commentary, he is white for the same reason The Warden's family is always Caucasian, even if he (or she) isn't. I simply don't think it is necessary to continue this trend into Dragon Age III.

Mass Effect 2 managed to avoid this issue. I think Dragon Age III should, too.

[Ladybright]

I wasn't particularly comfortable with it either. It's possible that Bioware intended it as social commentary on our society -- I can't recall any overt racism against darker-skinned people in-game, though I could be wrong? -- or that Varric decided to make Hawke white for whatever reason, but those explanations don't hold water with me. I understand them perfectly, but it -does- feel more like an oversight (i.e. white Couslands) than social commentary. It added an unlooked-for and unwanted undercurrent to the beginnings of my games.

I would prefer not to see this in DA3.

[LolaLei]

Hopefully they won't pull that stunt again. They should have just stuck a helmet on Hawke during the first scene before we got to the customisation screen (like they did with the beginning of ME2 when the Normandy goes to ****)... Though why they didn't let us customise Hawke straight off like they did in DA:O is beyond me.

It threw me off a bit, especially since my canon male Hawke is always dark skinned.

[Adanu]

Of all the things to **** about, this is about the lowest on the list and really a non issue.

Caucasian people the go to for most games, deal with it.

[Dejajeva]

Re: Framed Narrative.

I thought it was one of the best parts of the game- and everyone I know who played it outside of the forums thought it was a great addition. I have no opinion on the opening character being white, because as I played Default Fem!Hawke every single time, it didn't affect me.

I don't mind having the prologue first, at least on my first play-through, but I wish I could skip it on subsequent play-throughs. When a game is new and menus and controls are new, it's good to get a feel of how it works. Since I play these games regularly (or these types of games) I have no real preference as to what comes first.

[Gosia]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Gosia wrote...

Is this a serious thread? Because you know you weren’t forced to start DA II as a white person (unless we had different game versions) you could change your skin tone to any you wished. I have no idea what you are talking
about  as I had characters with the fairest to the darkest possible skin tone in that game.

You were forced to start as a white Hawke when Varric is telling the tale, remember? When Hawke and his (or her) sibling are fighting the darkspawn at the beginning of the game?

Hawke and his (or her) sibling are white, and then we get into the character creation soon afterwards. That's what I'm addressing specifically. I really don't understand the need for it in Dragon Age II when there was armor avaliable to hide Hawke's features, and I don't see a reason to start the protagonist of Dragon Age III as a white protagonist before making the character creation avaliable.

But it was only to give you a sense of your class fighting ability - at least that's how I got it, I have no issues with colour of the skin because I pay no attention to it really - white, black, red, yellow, green bring them on . You could miss drow skin colour really, I personally love it, but complaining that you were forced to start a game as a white character, seriously I would never come up with such an idea even if my Hawke in the beginning was green, I simply treated it as a form of testing your class abilities.

[CuriousArtemis]

Reading all the excuses given and explanations given in this thread is rather amusing lol

Don't worry, OP, I agree with ya. And thanks for bringing this issue up; I hadn't thought of it before.

[Lilaeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I decided that the iconic Hawke was a combination of Verric's storytelling and Cassandra's image of Hawke. Hawke is from Ferelden, a land of mostly fair skinned people, so she assumed Hawke was white. That doesn't speak highly of Cassandra's intelligence gathering, however, and she also has a book with accurate images of your companions.

So, yeah, there's no reason for a non-white Hawke to be white in the prologue.

This is the assumption I also made.  Though it is irritating to sit throught the prologue stuff and then get to the character design options.

As for 'White Jesus', he's based on the statue of Zeus the Christians stole from Olympia and took to Byzantium, where his face entered Orthodox iconography.  So really he's 'Greek/Hellene Jesus'!  

Modifié par Lilaeth, 06 avril 2012 - 09:29 .

[Baelyn]

berelinde wrote...

As for the "iconic" Hawke in the very beginning, I thought Varric was just lying. He didn't want to give away a single thing about Hawke, not even appearance, so he just repeated back what was in front of him.

"What did he look like? What kind of question is that? He was big, heroic. He looked a lot like you, actually, except for being male. Same hair color, same eye color. And he had this awesome beard. I'm telling you, the thing had a life of its own!"

"What did she look like? What kind of question is that? She was magnificent. A bit like you, actually, except that she had eyes like sapphires. I swear, they just about glowed in the dark!"

Had Cassandra been Rivaini, iconic Hawke probably would have had darker skin.

Best explanation in this thread.

[esper]

berelinde wrote...

As for the "iconic" Hawke in the very beginning, I thought Varric was just lying. He didn't want to give away a single thing about Hawke, not even appearance, so he just repeated back what was in front of him.

"What did he look like? What kind of question is that? He was big, heroic. He looked a lot like you, actually, except for being male. Same hair color, same eye color. And he had this awesome beard. I'm telling you, the thing had a life of its own!"

"What did she look like? What kind of question is that? She was magnificent. A bit like you, actually, except that she had eyes like sapphires. I swear, they just about glowed in the dark!"

Had Cassandra been Rivaini, iconic Hawke probably would have had darker skin.

You know what. Default Hawke does look a lot like Cassandra. It is a very good point.

[FKA_Servo]

Adanu wrote...

Of all the things to **** about, this is about the lowest on the list and really a non issue.

Caucasian people the go to for most games, deal with it.

I don't think I'm alone when I say that this is an issue, and one that a lot of people have problems with. Defaulting the hero to a white (usually) male has all kinds of problems. Beyond the obvious (it's stale, overdone, and usually effing lame), it reinforces lousy stereotypes about race (and sex, but that's another discussion) that need to be torn down.  The fact that you can control the race and sex of your PC in many Bioware games is fantastic - and still more unusual than it should be, in games but in popular culture overall. Go look at a DVD shelf. See how many science fiction or fantasy movies even have a person of color or a woman as the lead? You won't find many.

Honestly, "caucasion people" as the go to for games is a stupid status quo, and that's a crappy attitude to have. We shouldn't have to deal with it, we should evolve.

Modifié par TommyServo, 06 avril 2012 - 03:54 .

[Teddie Sage]

I hope so and I hope it will be human. I couldn't stand the origins from DAO.

[esper]

Adanu wrote...

Of all the things to **** about, this is about the lowest on the list and really a non issue.

Caucasian people the go to for most games, deal with it.

Causian makes sense for the da2 opening as have been explained, but that attitude is just not justifiable at all.

[JimmyTheProthean]

OOH BOOHO man! your like the people complaining why there are no Black people in the lord of the rings. The setting is based on Medival Europe and the closest you will get to a black person would be the rivaini people.Hawke is from ferelden which is based on Saxon England,Celtic Ireland and Scotland and back in the day there certainly would not have been Other coloured people there.

[FKA_Servo]

JimmyTheProthean wrote...

OOH BOOHO man! your like the people complaining why there are no Black people in the lord of the rings. The setting is based on Medival Europe and the closest you will get to a black person would be the rivaini people.Hawke is from ferelden which is based on Saxon England,Celtic Ireland and Scotland and back in the day there certainly would not have been Other coloured people there.

This is a staggeringly ignorant post. You should take a history course.

[TobiTobsen]

Depending on how you want to describe Isabela and the other Antivians & Rivaini, I never saw a single black person in Thedas.

So it actually wouldn't surprise me if everbody thought Hawke was white instead of something exotic.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 06 avril 2012 - 05:35 .

[San Diego Thief]

add it to the list of fails for Dragon Age 2 - having the character creation AFTER the prologue

[syllogi]

Adanu wrote...

Of all the things to **** about, this is about the lowest on the list and really a non issue.

Caucasian people the go to for most games, deal with it.

No.

And it's not a non issue.  White folks are a minority on this planet, making "white" the default needs to be put in the past permanently.  Deal with it.

It's very easy to put the character creator at the very beginning, and it doesn't break immersion.  If you're playing an RPG, you expect a character creation screen.

This was not my biggest issue with DA2, by far, but it was the first annoyance I had, since it was the first thing I saw when I started the game.  I'd be very happy to never see this mechanic used again.

[FKA_Servo]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

This is quite logical.
The klimat in Thedas is not so that you would expect black people there.

Like has been said earlier on this thread the setting of the game is european medievel.

And like I said before to another poster, you would do well to take a history course. Otherwise, you run the risk of embarrassing yourself with uninformed statements.