138 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

fwc577 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

ArthurBDD wrote...

This.

In particular, retaining the ending might respect the artistic integrity of those responsible for the ending, but the plot holes and contradictions it opens up shows supreme disrespect for the artistic integrty of what came before, particularly the whole ME1 thing. (For instance, the whole "Why do you need Sovereign? Why not just leave the Starchild AI on the Citadel monitoring things?" point.)

Easily explained that he was blocked by the Protheans did prior to ME1 in the last cycle. Perhaps the keepers were able to repair the sabotage and he is back. He probably did trigger the reapings in the past by observing from the citadel. I am not BW though so this is just speculation I came up with on the spot.

Lol, easily explained by someone who ran through the game and didn't bother to take the time to read and listen to conversations.

Citadel was the first place taken and swarmed by the Reapers, it was the heart of the Prothean empire and proved to be their downfall becuase it cutoff parts of the empire from each other when it was lost.  Protheans were just coming to understand mass relay technology when their empire was attacked.  No way they figure out some god reaper child in the citadel was the key to the Reaper invasion and managed to sabotage it.

If bioware tried to explain it in this matter it would be a slap in the face to those who were into the story and would be a poor retcon.

You are forgetting the scientists from Ilos that went onto the citadel and actually prevented the reaper signal from happening prior to ME. The reaper signal is the star child. Such a simple concept and grounded in ME lore They couldn't stop their end but gave the next life which they knew about asari and humans a chance as a last act of defiance to the reapers.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 06 avril 2012 - 02:28 .

[Smiley556]

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

[InvincibleHero]

Smiley556 wrote...

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

No it does not. It means thing like story is for BW to decide. They allow fan feedback to be incorporated to a point.

[Mx_CN3]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

No it does not. It means thing like story is for BW to decide. They allow fan feedback to be incorporated to a point.

Except that the fans already got the original ending changed?

[Smiley556]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

No it does not. It means thing like story is for BW to decide. They allow fan feedback to be incorporated to a point.

Which is exactly what sacrificing artistic integrity is. Something bioware claims they will not do.

Artistic Integrity means staying integer to your artistic vision, regardless of others opinions on it. The more your stick to artistic integrity, the less you care about others opinions, the more you risk nobody liking your art as much as you do. The more you listen to others opinion to influence your art away from your own perspective, the more you sacrifice artistic integrity. This is usually a very tough subject for artists, because they want to make the art they love but they also have to make a living out of it, which wont happen if people dont buy it.

ie. Bioware claiming they will stick to artistic integrity, pretty much means they dont give a rodents rectum about your opinion on it, and only their artistic vision, and their vision alone, will shape their artpiece product. As a consumer, I find this a very worrying implication.

Edit: I am clarifying what Bioware is saying, not what they are doing. I am pointing out that Bioware is talking complete contradicting gibberish.

Modifié par Smiley556, 06 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[InvincibleHero]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

No it does not. It means thing like story is for BW to decide. They allow fan feedback to be incorporated to a point.

Except that the fans already got the original ending changed?

Not really following you here. if you mean the leak casued Bw to change their product pre-release that was their own choice. Post release fan pressure to make changes then that is up against artistic integrity.

[Smiley556]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

Artistic integrity and listening to customer feedback cant coexist together. Claiming you want to keep artistic integrity and you are listening to our feedback is a huge contradiction. Artistic integrity by definition means you only care about your own opinion on the shaping of your product/artwork, and not that of the consumers. Thanks Bioware for admitting you do not care about our feedback nor our opinions on your product.

No it does not. It means thing like story is for BW to decide. They allow fan feedback to be incorporated to a point.

Except that the fans already got the original ending changed?

Not really following you here. if you mean the leak casued Bw to change their product pre-release that was their own choice. Post release fan pressure to make changes then that is up against artistic integrity.

If you are going to stick to artistic integrity it is a very big thing to point out BEFORE releasing the game. They did not, they are using it as a defense afterwards. Usually in the art world, if an artist is known to stick to artistic integrity that is sadly for most a pretty big pointer to Not commision anything from him, for it means they will envision their own idea over yours. Claiming artistic integrity afterwards is retarded.

Modifié par Smiley556, 06 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[InvincibleHero]

Smiley556 wrote...

Which is exactly what sacrificing artistic integrity is. Something bioware claims they will not do.

Artistic Integrity means staying integer to your artistic vision, regardless of others opinions on it. The more your stick to artistic integrity, the less you care about others opinions, the more you risk nobody liking your art as much as you do. The more you listen to others opinion to influence your art away from your own perspective, the more you sacrifice artistic integrity. This is usually a very tough subject for artists, because they want to make the art they love but they also have to make a living out of it, which wont happen if people dont buy it.

ie. Bioware claiming they will stick to artistic integrity, pretty much means they dont give a rodents rectum about your opinion on it, and only their artistic vision, and their vision alone, will shape their artpiece product. As a consumer, I find this a very worrying implication.

No they are just throwing the fans a bone. They still write the story as they want and it ends how they want. People die as they want it and they only give choices where they want to. Any and all options are created by BW. Their artists rendered krogans hwo they wanted etc. That is the art of the game and it all came from BW creators.

Just because they gave fans Tali as a love interest is no violation of artistic integrity. It's great they do accomodate fans but it just breeds the want for more that caused this whole endings snafu.

They can always use feedback to make a better product. It has its purpose, but they remain the controller of the destiny of the ME IP.

[Smiley556]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Just because they gave fans Tali as a love interest is no violation of artistic integrity.  

Are you trolling now? This is EXACTLY what sacrifing artistic integrity is. They admitted they never intended tali and garrus as a love interest, but added it in ME2 due to populair demand.

I think you misunderstand the fact that artistic integrity isnt necesarily a good or a bad thing and this is not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm making is that Bioware is talking out of their arse using artistic inegrity as an excuse afterwards. Bioware listens to feedback and change their game accordingly. Which means they DONT STICK TO ARTISTIC INTEGRITY. Period. This is why its so retarded of them to use artistic integrity as defense.

[Mx_CN3]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Except that the fans already got the original ending changed?

Not really following you here. if you mean the leak casued Bw to change their product pre-release that was their own choice. Post release fan pressure to make changes then that is up against artistic integrity.

The way I see it, they are saying that their "artisitc integrity" is comprised of their original vision of the series.  That original vision was reviled by fans, and thus was changed.  What we got with the release was not the original vision of the series, therefore claiming that, by not changing the current ending(s), they are keeping artisitc integrity/the original vision, is simply not possible.

[Smiley556]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Except that the fans already got the original ending changed?

Not really following you here. if you mean the leak casued Bw to change their product pre-release that was their own choice. Post release fan pressure to make changes then that is up against artistic integrity.

The way I see it, they are saying that their "artisitc integrity" is comprised of their original vision of the series.  That original vision was reviled by fans, and thus was changed.  What we got with the release was not the original vision of the series, therefore claiming that, by not changing the current ending(s), they are keeping artisitc integrity/the original vision, is simply not possible.

^ exactly. Once you change someting, moving away from your original vision, in response to customer feedback, your are not longer artisticly integer. Its already done. I have no problem with them violating artsitic integrity (infact it would be pretty bad if they didnt, imagine no feedback whatsoever ever having made it into the game? no tali romance? no garrus romance?). Its total contradictory gibberish of them to claim artistic integrity when that has already been lost.

[InvincibleHero]

Smiley556 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Just because they gave fans Tali as a love interest is no violation of artistic integrity.  

Are you trolling now? This is EXACTLY what sacrifing artistic integrity is. They admitted they never intended tali and garrus as a love interest, but added it in ME2 due to populair demand.

I think you misunderstand the fact that artistic integrity isnt necesarily a good or a bad thing and this is not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm making is that Bioware is talking out of their arse using artistic inegrity as an excuse afterwards. Bioware listens to feedback and change their game accordingly. Which means they DONT STICK TO ARTISTIC INTEGRITY. Period. This is why its so retarded of them to use artistic integrity as defense.

No outside influences do not really matter. If I make a painting and someone I know has a shirt of an interesting color I can incorporate that as I will. In fact i can ask their opinion of tow colors and it is still my choice ultimately of what I choose to incorporate. It was entirely my choice just like with BW incorporating what they want. Being forced to compromise their vision after the fact is different. This is the only violation of integrity.

If they went and patched a Tali romance into ME after release then maybe you'd have a point. They didn't. They incorporated it into ME2 asking for feedback from the first game.

Changing the ending is changing their words and vision and yes plans for the whole universe post ME3. Anything intiiated by BW is not a violation of BW's artistic integrity ever. It will be as they want it.

[Mx_CN3]

InvincibleHero wrote...

No outside influences do not really matter. If I make a painting and someone I know has a shirt of an interesting color I can incorporate that as I will. In fact i can ask their opinion of tow colors and it is still my choice ultimately of what I choose to incorporate. It was entirely my choice just like with BW incorporating what they want. Being forced to compromise their vision after the fact is different. This is the only violation of integrity.

If they went and patched a Tali romance into ME after release then maybe you'd have a point. They didn't. They incorporated it into ME2 asking for feedback from the first game.

Changing the ending is changing their words and vision and yes plans for the whole universe post ME3. Anything intiiated by BW is not a violation of BW's artistic integrity ever. It will be as they want it.

This is where we're having a disagreement:

Say, in your painting, you want a red shirt.  You paint in a red shirt, and are using oil paints (they're easy to change).  As you're finishing other parts of the painting, you call in an art critic, and he says "looks great, except that red shirt is terrible.  I'd paint it green."  You haven't officially shown anyone this painting, and you originally wanted it to be red.  But you need to sell this painting, and know that it will not be as likely to sell if the shirt is red, so you change it to green.  You release it, and it sells well (or you messed up and painted it brown and people still don't like it).  It technically was your choice to change the color, but it wasn't what you had planned on doing, and possibly what you didn't want to do.

To you, the breakdown in artistic integrity is only after a release, but to me (and many others), the breakdown occurrs the second that what you original envision is changed, in this case, changing a color before the painting is over.  You didn't release what was your original vision, therefore artistic intergrity is compromised.

[Smiley556]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Just because they gave fans Tali as a love interest is no violation of artistic integrity.  

Are you trolling now? This is EXACTLY what sacrifing artistic integrity is. They admitted they never intended tali and garrus as a love interest, but added it in ME2 due to populair demand.

I think you misunderstand the fact that artistic integrity isnt necesarily a good or a bad thing and this is not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm making is that Bioware is talking out of their arse using artistic inegrity as an excuse afterwards. Bioware listens to feedback and change their game accordingly. Which means they DONT STICK TO ARTISTIC INTEGRITY. Period. This is why its so retarded of them to use artistic integrity as defense.

No outside influences do not really matter. If I make a painting and someone I know has a shirt of an interesting color I can incorporate that as I will. In fact i can ask their opinion of tow colors and it is still my choice ultimately of what I choose to incorporate. It was entirely my choice just like with BW incorporating what they want. Being forced to compromise their vision after the fact is different. This is the only violation of integrity.

If they went and patched a Tali romance into ME after release then maybe you'd have a point. They didn't. They incorporated it into ME2 asking for feedback from the first game.

Changing the ending is changing their words and vision and yes plans for the whole universe post ME3. Anything intiiated by BW is not a violation of BW's artistic integrity ever. It will be as they want it.

Your failure to understand this makes it hard to dispute, and makes you sound like a troll, but Ill bite one more time.

Creating anything not based on your own vision is violating artistic integrity. Asking fans what they want, and implementing that in the game, because that is what the fans want, is violating artistic integreity, wether it is done before hand or afterwards. Bioware admitted that they were not planning on adding tali and garrus as a romance at all, but implemented it because of popular demand.

Any form of comissioned art is usually NOT artistically integer. Artistic integrity is when an artists makes a piece of art of his own volition because its what he wants to make. He is satisfied with the result, and doesnt care about others opinions (well his wallet cares usually if he intends to sell the piece, which is why so many artists violate it, to make money). Bioware is making a product to appeal to consumers, and to do that one does not stick to artistic integerity, and they havent, rightfully so.

Edit: I'm not saying they Should change the ending. I'm saying artistic integrity is wrongly used as an excuse to not change the ending.

Modifié par Smiley556, 06 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Jymm]

I believe that games can be art. Some things that you watch at the local multiplex are art, some are just movies. Games are the same, IMO. And I also believe that 98% of these three games represent outstanding art. And the last 5 minutes of the final game represent really lousy art as the endings stand today. And that inevitably (and tragically) weakens the entire body of work. They can feel free to claim "artistic integrity" and insist defiantly that the ending is the culmination of their entire vision for this sweeping story arc. And they are effectively insisting defiantly that they are not as good of artists as we previously thought they were.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone directly who works for Bioware, but I bet it would be _fascinating_ to see what various people in the company who have worked on the three games have to say about the ending and whether they feel it is true to the vision of what they created. Artistic integrity is far more complicated when the "artist" is actually 200 people... I would be surprised if there isn't a lot of internal debate that we can't observe from the outside.

[InvincibleHero]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

No outside influences do not really matter. If I make a painting and someone I know has a shirt of an interesting color I can incorporate that as I will. In fact i can ask their opinion of tow colors and it is still my choice ultimately of what I choose to incorporate. It was entirely my choice just like with BW incorporating what they want. Being forced to compromise their vision after the fact is different. This is the only violation of integrity.

If they went and patched a Tali romance into ME after release then maybe you'd have a point. They didn't. They incorporated it into ME2 asking for feedback from the first game.

Changing the ending is changing their words and vision and yes plans for the whole universe post ME3. Anything intiiated by BW is not a violation of BW's artistic integrity ever. It will be as they want it.

This is where we're having a disagreement:

Say, in your painting, you want a red shirt.  You paint in a red shirt, and are using oil paints (they're easy to change).  As you're finishing other parts of the painting, you call in an art critic, and he says "looks great, except that red shirt is terrible.  I'd paint it green."  You haven't officially shown anyone this painting, and you originally wanted it to be red.  But you need to sell this painting, and know that it will not be as likely to sell if the shirt is red, so you change it to green.  You release it, and it sells well (or you messed up and painted it brown and people still don't like it).  It technically was your choice to change the color, but it wasn't what you had planned on doing, and possibly what you didn't want to do.

To you, the breakdown in artistic integrity is only after a release, but to me (and many others), the breakdown occurrs the second that what you original envision is changed, in this case, changing a color before the painting is over.  You didn't release what was your original vision, therefore artistic intergrity is compromised.

We'll just have to disagree then. To me there is no integrity until the product is finished. It is changeable until then by whatever whims the creator may have. Slavishly adhering to an idea may make for bad art. I have changed thing while writing because somethingbetter popped into my head later in the process. Creation is not a linear process but a thing of imagination.

You cannot ever say their vision was compromised because you will never know BW's intent for ME3. You cannot read their minds so all you can do is poinlessly speculate. While we can point at the release of art and critique it. That has validity.

[Ivran]

[InvincibleHero]

Smiley556 wrote...

Your failure to understand this makes it hard to dispute, and makes you sound like a troll, but Ill bite one more time.

Creating anything not based on your own vision is violating artistic integrity. Asking fans what they want, and implementing that in the game, because that is what the fans want, is violating artistic integreity, wether it is done before hand or afterwards. Bioware admitted that they were not planning on adding tali and garrus as a romance at all, but implemented it because of popular demand.

Any form of comissioned art is usually NOT artistically integer. Artistic integrity is when an artists makes a piece of art of his own volition because its what he wants to make. He is satisfied with the result, and doesnt care about others opinions (well his wallet cares usually if he intends to sell the piece, which is why so many artists violate it, to make money). Bioware is making a product to appeal to consumers, and to do that one does not stick to artistic integerity, and they havent, rightfully so.

Edit: I'm not saying they Should change the ending. I'm saying artistic integrity is wrongly used as an excuse to not change the ending.

Your argument was by my making changes to my art that I'd be violationg my artistic integrity. You are wrong I determine that with my works of art and BW does with theirs. Their art is their story, their words, their visuals, and how it is delivered to the user. Art is personal you may own a piece I make ,but you did not create it.

I never said they do not have to change the ending. They can if they want to but it would violate their integrity because they caved to fan pressure and changed it post-release. Not very hard to understand.

You are trying for a standard of art that does not exist. Every artist has been influenced by something hence nothing can ever be their pure vision.Hence there is artistic integrity in nothing created is what your argument should be. I am the sum of all my experiences: everything I have heard and seen and that has an impact.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 06 avril 2012 - 04:13 .

[PrinceLionheart]

The Razman wrote...

"Artistic integrity" means that you don't create your works for other people. You can sell them, sure ... but for anything to have artistic integrity, it has to come from you and your exploration of ideas and stories, and not from your desire to please a majority or sell more of the product or anything. Example: Britney Spears has no artistic integrity because her music exists merely to please the mainstream, while Johnny Cash has artistic integrity because he created music because that's what he loved doing.

If Bioware changed their ending, they'd be compromising their artistic integrity by virtue of altering the nature of their story to fit what the mainstream want, rather than letting it stand as the story they wanted to tell and letting it be judged upon that standard. I don't support the destruction of artistic integrity for any reason.

So when Casey went on about how the team didn't initially plan for Tali to be a fulltime squaddie but then changed their minds because of the Tali fans, they comprised their artistic integrity?

[Eterna]

If Bioware didn't care they wouldn't be giving you a extended cut for free. You guys are just making crap up now, it makes you all look very childish.

[o Ventus]

Eterna5 wrote...

If Bioware didn't care they wouldn't be giving you a extended cut for free. You guys are just making crap up now, it makes you all look very childish.

Sense.

You are making none.

The whole "extended cut" is going to be nothing more than a longer cutscene, but no new dialogue. Laughable damage control at best, absolutely pointless at worst.

[Gatt9]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

No outside influences do not really matter. If I make a painting and someone I know has a shirt of an interesting color I can incorporate that as I will. In fact i can ask their opinion of tow colors and it is still my choice ultimately of what I choose to incorporate. It was entirely my choice just like with BW incorporating what they want. Being forced to compromise their vision after the fact is different. This is the only violation of integrity.

If they went and patched a Tali romance into ME after release then maybe you'd have a point. They didn't. They incorporated it into ME2 asking for feedback from the first game.

Changing the ending is changing their words and vision and yes plans for the whole universe post ME3. Anything intiiated by BW is not a violation of BW's artistic integrity ever. It will be as they want it.

This is where we're having a disagreement:

Say, in your painting, you want a red shirt.  You paint in a red shirt, and are using oil paints (they're easy to change).  As you're finishing other parts of the painting, you call in an art critic, and he says "looks great, except that red shirt is terrible.  I'd paint it green."  You haven't officially shown anyone this painting, and you originally wanted it to be red.  But you need to sell this painting, and know that it will not be as likely to sell if the shirt is red, so you change it to green.  You release it, and it sells well (or you messed up and painted it brown and people still don't like it).  It technically was your choice to change the color, but it wasn't what you had planned on doing, and possibly what you didn't want to do.

To you, the breakdown in artistic integrity is only after a release, but to me (and many others), the breakdown occurrs the second that what you original envision is changed, in this case, changing a color before the painting is over.  You didn't release what was your original vision, therefore artistic intergrity is compromised.

We'll just have to disagree then. To me there is no integrity until the product is finished. It is changeable until then by whatever whims the creator may have. Slavishly adhering to an idea may make for bad art. I have changed thing while writing because somethingbetter popped into my head later in the process. Creation is not a linear process but a thing of imagination.

You cannot ever say their vision was compromised because you will never know BW's intent for ME3. You cannot read their minds so all you can do is poinlessly speculate. While we can point at the release of art and critique it. That has validity.

Actually,  yes I can tell you their vision was compromised.  It was compromised the moment EA bought them,  and EA was able to tell them how to design their games.  Project $10.  Online Pass.  It's *really* obvious EA dictated design.

Which is why the "Artistic Integrity" arguement immediately fails,  because they had no problem letting EA compromise the "Artistic Integrity" of their vision.  It's only when fans told them that the ending was ridiculous,  and failed to match what the developers were stating all the way up to release,  that the "Artistic Integrity" thing even came up.

It's a PR tactic,  designed to try and appeal to the uncertainty of "Art" and people's desire to allow art to occur unfettered.  People very seriously need to start learning and thinking,  and recognize when something is designed to manipulate them.

[aberdash]

Eterna5 wrote...

If Bioware didn't care they wouldn't be giving you a extended cut for free. You guys are just making crap up now, it makes you all look very childish.

They care about the bad press this has gotten them not what we want.

Modifié par aberdash, 06 avril 2012 - 04:14 .

[PrinceLionheart]

The Razman wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

The Razman wrote...

"Artistic integrity" means that you don't create your works for other people. You can sell them, sure ... but for anything to have artistic integrity, it has to come from you and your exploration of ideas and stories, and not from your desire to please a majority or sell more of the product or anything. Example: Britney Spears has no artistic integrity because her music exists merely to please the mainstream, while Johnny Cash has artistic integrity because he created music because that's what he loved doing.

If Bioware changed their ending, they'd be compromising their artistic integrity by virtue of altering the nature of their story to fit what the mainstream want, rather than letting it stand as the story they wanted to tell and letting it be judged upon that standard. I don't support the destruction of artistic integrity for any reason.

Re: the bolded.

And that's exactly what they did.  They can't claim artistic integrity now when they changed their vision based on trying to appease the CoD crowd.  They didn't change the focus from ME1's more stat-based combat to ME3's full on shooter combat because it was their "vision" from the start.  They did it to cater to the shooter crowd they hoped to entice (there was a quote about that very thing).

See, that's the problem with this artistic integrity defense.  It seems to only apply to the ending of the game where people defend it saying "they shouldn't cater to fans", yet pretty much all the changes that have gone on in their games (including DA2) was to cater to fans.  MP?  Shooter game?  Those weren't part of their vision when they began ME1.  Those came later when they realized that to get more sales, they had to cater to the shooter/MP crowd.

If BioWare truly wanted to hide behind artistic integrity, then they would have never added MP and they would have stuck with their ME1 combat system, rather than give in to market demand for shooters and MP function.  They lost all right to hide behind artistic integrity when they made changes in order to appease a certain kind of gamer (ie. the CoD crowd).

Because games aren't art. Stories are art. Whenever you talk about artistic things in games, its only ever referring to the narratological aspects of them. The "game" part of games? That doesn't apply to any discussion on artistic integrity.

Except since it's a roleplaying game, the story is just as much a "game part."

[Volus Warlord]

Eterna5 wrote...

If Bioware didn't care they wouldn't be giving you a extended cut for free. You guys are just making crap up now, it makes you all look very childish.

1.) There is no gurantee the extended cut will be released.

2.) If the extended cut is released, there is no gurantee it will be free. 

3.) I won't get into the whole "care or not" deal, but there is an increasingly apparent conflict of interest in Bioware's game design and development.  It seems to have become destructive.

4.) Maturity is a fallacy.