259 réponses à ce sujet

[viperabyss]

 The more I think about it, I feel that clarification is such a bad idea. There are just way too many stuff in the ending that require a lot of "clarifications".

[OldSwede]

viperabyss wrote...

 The more I think about it, I feel that clarification is such a bad idea. There are just way too many stuff in the ending that require a lot of "clarifications".

Yes, I believe that is what I'm leaning towards, too --- and also, another reason for me to want a Mass Effect 4, which would be for everyone - not just benifitting Multiplayers (mutters...) Well.... I just do not like ME3 that very much, at all, unfortunately. :'-(

(edit: PS:  I need good games! I have loved Mass Effect so much, I built up my own hype around ME3 - and it is very hard for me to find good games, like Mass Effect and TES. I looked so much forward to ME3...)

Modifié par OldSwede, 09 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[Cogneter]

OldSwede wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

 The more I think about it, I feel that clarification is such a bad idea. There are just way too many stuff in the ending that require a lot of "clarifications".

Yes, I believe that is what I'm leaning towards, too --- and also, another reason for me to want a Mass Effect 4, which would be for everyone - not just benifitting Multiplayers (mutters...) Well.... I just do not like ME3 that very much, at all, unfortunately. :'-(

Oh, I'm sure you will enjoy Mass Shift.

[OldSwede]

Cogneter wrote...

OldSwede wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

 The more I think about it, I feel that clarification is such a bad idea. There are just way too many stuff in the ending that require a lot of "clarifications".

Yes, I believe that is what I'm leaning towards, too --- and also, another reason for me to want a Mass Effect 4, which would be for everyone - not just benifitting Multiplayers (mutters...) Well.... I just do not like ME3 that very much, at all, unfortunately. :'-(

Oh, I'm sure you will enjoy Mass Shift.

Oh yeah (scared smiley here LOL) I saw that on a paste-thing (I don't know the name for such) a couple of weeks ago. I didn't know all the things around the Same-Day-DLC and the leaks and was curious what it was all about, and that one popped up in a google search. I thought they, or the guy/girl were talking about ME3, before the release (I wasn't very informed...I've been offline very, very long and built up my own hype around ME3) 

Modifié par OldSwede, 09 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[Cogneter]

So, here's a quote from another thread:

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Community Manager- They will not make a new ending, because that would be unfair to the people who liked the ending. The way they explained it was basically this: There are three groups, people who liked the ending, those who were just confused and didn't get answers so they got angry, and people who were angry because they didn't like the ending. In the closure DLC, they are aiming to make the people who were confused happy. They know they can't make everyone happy, so they want to please as many people as possible.

Do I miss something, or are they doing the opposite of what they intend?

Modifié par Cogneter, 09 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[reeot]

Cogneter wrote...

So, here's a quote from another thread:

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Community Manager- They will not make a new ending, because that would be unfair to the people who liked the ending. The way they explained it was basically this: There are three groups, people who liked the ending, those who were just confused and didn't get answers so they got angry, and people who were angry because they didn't like the ending. In the closure DLC, they are aiming to make the people who were confused happy. They know they can't make everyone happy, so they want to please as many people as possible.

Do I miss something, or are they doing the opposite of what they intend?

Dunno... But i think the 3 groups of people are more like:
- People who don't care about the story at all ("Who needs a coherent story? This is so nerdy...":?).
- People who were just confused and didn't get answers so they got angry.
- People who were angry because they didn't like the lack of decision impact
(which is the bigger group, if you believe in the pool results).

Modifié par reeot, 09 avril 2012 - 09:10 .

[Cogneter]

reeot wrote...

Cogneter wrote...

So, here's a quote from another thread:

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Community Manager- They will not make a new ending, because that would be unfair to the people who liked the ending. The way they explained it was basically this: There are three groups, people who liked the ending, those who were just confused and didn't get answers so they got angry, and people who were angry because they didn't like the ending. In the closure DLC, they are aiming to make the people who were confused happy. They know they can't make everyone happy, so they want to please as many people as possible.

Do I miss something, or are they doing the opposite of what they intend?

Dunno... But i think the 3 groups of people are more like:
- People who don't care about the story at all ("Who needs a coherent story? This is so nerdy...":?).
- People who were just confused and didn't get answers so they got angry.
- People who were angry because they didn't like the lack of decision impact
(which is the bigger group, if you believe in the pool results).

The third group also includes people who, no matter how many decisions, would still like a coherent story.

I would be ok with 2 endings or even a single ending as long as the starkid is removed. Though some additional scenes on how my choices throughout the trilogy affected the galaxy would be nice as well.

[ZenJitsu]

Cogneter wrote...

1) That is obvious. Note how many people agree to PAYING for a "Fixed Ending" DLC rather that get a "Extended Ending" DLC for FREE. It is not because they have been fooled into buying content which should have been in the game in the first place, but rather because they realise that BioWare MADE A MISTAKE and they, being devoted fans who wish a sensible ending for their favourite series, are willing to financially assist BW with fixing it.

Also, any attempt to make ANY ("Mass Shift" anyone?) ME-related series based on the current ending will be a financial fiasco - that much is obvious for everyone, BW hopefully included.

Agreed, I would definitely pay for DLC that fixed things and rewrote poor writing than have more of the Same! for FREE! I always envision them throwing free products in the air and the dissenters with the least amount of integrity scrambling wildly for it.

I think that's the problem with BioWare...it's the selective hearing where they heard the 'closure' part we wanted and decided the best course of action was to stubbornly adhere to their poor writing.

Essentially, if Starchild is still there and Normandy's off on another world somewhere...yah, no amount of clarification will make that better writing. As MrBtongue said, you're just throwing good writing after bad at that point. There should be an award for Missing the Point.

[harrier25699]

The very need for clarification DLC suggests a failure of design, however the fact that BW are not just breezing over the issue says they do have some integrity.

Modifié par harrier25699, 10 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[gcabiat]

No, too much left unaswered.

[Alamar2078]

It's too bad more people aren't responding to the poll so the 4-1 against "clarification & closure" would potentially be more meaningfull.

[Cogneter]

Alamar2078 wrote...

It's too bad more people aren't responding to the poll so the 4-1 against "clarification & closure" would potentially be more meaningfull.

Well, all we can do for now is place the link in our signatures and spread the word around.

However, I'm sure, the poll's results are enough as they are to show BioWare the errors of their ways. The tricky part is actually demonstrating these results to them...

[TheRognik]

I would like to see more votes in this poll. If it is true that there are 5 times as many people who think more needs to be done than those who do not, Bioware is in a sad position indeed. I have to say, I wish the OP had stayed completely neutral just to be absolutely sure it did not influnce the poll at all.

Personally I agree that an "extended cut" is not enough, unless "the last part was an hallucination" counts as an extension.

Much has already been said about what's wrong with the endings - plot holes, lack of clarity, lack of consequences for our many decisions. But for me, the most important problem with the endings is the rejection of key themes from the rest of the series.

Control represents what the Illusive Man wanted, which was shown to be categorically wrong on numerous occasions. Plus, if the Reapers were controlling him while he sought to control the Reapers, it just verifies that choosing control is what they want you to do. It also rejects the Mass Effect theme that enslaving a sentient being is morally wrong.

Synthesis is nearly indistinguishable from what the Reapers wanted in the first place (isn't melting people down to make a Reaper just a form of synthesis?). It's also a flat-out rejection of what being a paragon in Mass Effect stands for - the idea that we can all get along if we just tolerate (or even embrace) each others' differences. Synthesis forces us to eliminate those differences.

Destruction is the only ending that does not blindly accept everything the Reapers ever wanted, so to me, it's clearly the best ending. However, it forces us to commit genocide against the Geth and murder EDI, a character we learn is capable of embracing everything that is beautiful about sentient life. This is obviously a terrible sacrifice, and genocide once again violates the idea of peace through tolerance.

Therefore, every ending is a rejection of what every write should strive for - including a meaningful theme in their story that can make your audience feel emotionally cleansed. No amount of "clarification" can fix this problem.

On a personal (and humorous) note, when I finished the game I raged so hard that I alt-f4ed during the credits and immediately canceled my SWTOR subscription. True story.

[Cogneter]

TheRognik wrote...

I have to say, I wish the OP had stayed completely neutral just to be absolutely sure it did not influnce the poll at all.

Can't advance the poll without caring. And can't care while being neutral.

TheRognik wrote...

On a personal (and humorous) note, when I finished the game I raged so hard that I alt-f4ed during the credits and immediately canceled my SWTOR subscription. True story.

That's more sad than humorous, actually. For BioWare, at least.

[DonnieJ]

My friend KRHamilton just posted this wish list: (http://www.holdtheli...-3-wishlist.42/).  I would also like to see the changes in Mass Effect 3.

"This is my wish list of things that can vastly improve Mass Effect 3 :

1. Add a final mission for an epic battle between Harbinger and the military might of all the assets commander Sheppard gathered.  Give Shepard a real chance to be the hero, let him fight and kill more reapers in a new creative ways, not with space magic.  The crucible should be more like a giant gun and less of a magical device.

2. Give Shepard a chance for happiness; it can be one of several choices.  If you have accumulated every possible war asset, have 100% military readiness, and over 7,000 in effective military strength, enable Shepard to get a hero's parade on earth after defeating the reapers and a well-deserved vacation with his friends that survived all
three games.  If Shepard goes into the final mission with insufficient assets, let him die fighting like a hero not being controlled like a puppet.

3. For fans that still prefer the indoctrination ending, keep it, but provide some clarification to make it a credible outcome.  Also give Shepard a true chance to fight it and still achieve the ultimate happy ending, if the player choses to make the effort.

4. Provide an epilogue that shows what happens to each of the most important characters that we have come to admire and love.

5. Let us fight Illusive Man since he is an indoctrinated puppet just like Saren and should be able to put up a good fight. For a bitter enemy that my Shepard despised, it was a lost opportunity for an epic battle.  If the indoctrinated husk of any civilian can put up a fight, why can't TIM?

6. Get rid of the teleport beam to the Citadel; it's too much like the conduit in Mass Effect 1.  This would be an excellent spot to insert an epic final battle, something that will be remembered for the ages as a shining example of the Mass Effect trilogy.  This was already achieved in the epic battles in Tuchanka and Rannoch.  Take it to
another level of epic gameplay, show us fans what you can do while finding a better more creative way to get inside the Citadel.  Up to this point in the game, my adrenaline was through the roof; it all goes downhill from the race to the beam, in more ways than one.

7. Replace at least some of the boring planet scanning fetch quests with missions letting you land on the planets and use either the Mako, the Hammerhead, or alternate between the two depending on the planet's terrain.  The missions could enable you explore the area with in the vehicle, including some vehicular combat like in ME1 and 2, and when you get close enough to the intended destination continue exploring and fighting on foot with your squad until you achieve the objective.  This would add some variety to missions and make galactic exploration more fun.  The explanations for not using the shuttle to fly in could be that the area has too many anti-aircraft defenses or that there is too much interference and low visibility to fly safely.

8. Give us back the ability to holster Shepard's equipped weapon.  Shepard shouldn't be forced to point her gun at allies.  Also when you holstered your gun in ME 1 and ME 2, it was possible to better appreciate the beautiful environments in the game and see how cool your armor looks from every angle.

9. Fix the quest journal bugs, provide more details for each quest showing the stages that are completed and the ones that still pending, and give us back the journal hotkey.

10. Give Shepard a chance to take an active role in at least one space battle, get creative with it.

Implementing just the top 3 items, would undisputedly provide at least 3 truly distinct endings and add a massive amount of replay value to a series I adore.  Implementing all 10 could make the game the best RPG of all time, but this is just my personal wish list.

What do you think of this list?  Anyone have suggestions for changes or additions?  It would be cool if there was a way to have a live steaming wish list web page with polling features to show BioWare what people want in real time.":)

Modifié par DonnieJ, 12 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[xenu101]

RAGE!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, I'm done with Bioware. ME3 was such a giant let down, screw this. I was so pissed off over the sh*tball ending and crappy gameplay that I've been coming to this lousy forum to vent my anger for an entire month. THIS GAME IS SERIOUSLY THAT BAD! And no, it's not just the ending, the whole thing sucked.

I'm done. I hope the rEApers burn in hell. And i'm never buying another Bioware game again.

Go suck Big Gay Steve Cortez's d*ck Bioware. Your f*ggotry is beyond belief.

[MidnightRaith]

While I can't really say what I believe before the actual Extended Cut releases, I went with my gut feeling on this one. No, I do not believe this "clarification" DLC will be enough. The ending has so much that needs to be addressed, that I can't say I'm hopeful that BW can address it in a manner that is acceptable. They already shot themselves in the foot last time around, what's to say they won't aim a little higher this time? Adding a useless character in the final minutes of the game, abandoning many of their themes in favor of one that is directly contradicted in-game, mistaking sad and depressing for "profound" and the Normandy tomfoolery. Only parts of many larger problems..... Can they really "clarify" all of these things?

The fact that they use the words "clarification" and "closure" to describe the Extended Cut comes across as condescending. No, Bioware, it is not "clarification" that we need. The ending was rather clear and it was terrible. What we need is a fix, one that you are unwilling to provide out of some sense of false pride, in my opinion.

This... mess is completely unneeded. That's what makes me angry about this whole thing. The fact that there shouldn't even be an issue here. It's like Bioware became possesive of their toys and decided to take them while we were playing with them and proceeded to break them in front of our eyes. It seems almost childish. They know how to end a story. They've done it many times before. What in high heaven changed?? I very nearly believe that supposedly "false" rumor that Casey and whatisname took over the writing process for the ending. What else could have happened otherwise? The rest of the series doesn't have this horrid stench to it.... The whole thing just gives me a headache....

[Cogneter]

DonnieJ wrote...

"This is my wish list of things that can vastly improve Mass Effect 3 :

...

5. Let us fight Illusive Man since he is an indoctrinated puppet just like Saren and should be able to put up a good fight. For a bitter enemy that my Shepard despised, it was a lost opportunity for an epic battle.  If the indoctrinated husk of any civilian can put up a fight, why can't TIM?

6. Get rid of the teleport beam to the Citadel; it's too much like the conduit in Mass Effect 1.  This would be an excellent spot to insert an epic final battle, something that will be remembered for the ages as a shining example of the Mass Effect trilogy.  This was already achieved in the epic battles in Tuchanka and Rannoch.  Take it to
another level of epic gameplay, show us fans what you can do while finding a better more creative way to get inside the Citadel.  Up to this point in the game, my adrenaline was through the roof; it all goes downhill from the race to the beam, in more ways than one.

I agree with most points, but disagree with two:

5. It was mentioned somewhere that TIM was planned as a final "physical" enemy in a very deformed huskified form. However, I agree with BioWare's decision of not fighting with him - he is a cunning and intelligent opponent, so it is only fitting that the fight with him is a battle of wits. Physically engaging him would feel... wrong.

6. Much of the game's plot evolves around this beam, so removing it would prove... problematic. A final fight with Harbinger would be nice, but perhaps with a forced defeat? Because I can't say I didn't like the scene with TIM and Anderson.


Other than that, really nice points and I hope they're implemented at some point through DLCs/patches.

[Cogneter]

MidnightRaith wrote...

The fact that they use the words "clarification" and "closure" to describe the Extended Cut comes across as condescending. No, Bioware, it is not "clarification" that we need. The ending was rather clear and it was terrible. What we need is a fix, one that you are unwilling to provide out of some sense of false pride, in my opinion.

Apparently, "fixing" something requires first admitting that it's broken - in this case, admitting that the current ending is a mistake. But that would hurt BioWare's "artistic integrity". I'm not even entirely sarcastic here - putting much effort into something, then finding out what you've done is a mistake, admitting it and remaking it, requires a lot of nerve.

MidnightRaith wrote...

This... mess is completely unneeded. That's what makes me angry about this whole thing. The fact that there shouldn't even be an issue here. It's like Bioware became possesive of their toys and decided to take them while we were playing with them and proceeded to break them in front of our eyes. It seems almost childish. They know how to end a story. They've done it many times before. What in high heaven changed?? I very nearly believe that supposedly "false" rumor that Casey and whatisname took over the writing process for the ending. What else could have happened otherwise? The rest of the series doesn't have this horrid stench to it.... The whole thing just gives me a headache....

I'm more horrified with the "Mass Shift" rumor. Did they actually butcher the whole Mass Effect trilogy just to have a "fitting prologue" for the new series? The very thought makes me shudder.

Modifié par Cogneter, 12 avril 2012 - 09:39 .

[Gwtheyrn]

If it makes it make sense, it might help, but the underlying problem of the use of a deus ex machina still exists. You don't introduce a brand new all-powerful god character at the end of a story to bring everything to an end. That's awful writing.

[Gwtheyrn]

harrier25699 wrote...

The very need for clarification DLC suggests a failure of design, however the fact that BW are not just breezing over the issue says they do have some integrity.

That's not integrity. That's being scared for their very continued existence as a studio.

[Cogneter]

Gwtheyrn wrote...

If it makes it make sense, it might help, but the underlying problem of the use of a deus ex machina still exists. You don't introduce a brand new all-powerful god character at the end of a story to bring everything to an end. That's awful writing.

Ancient Greeks might not agree with you here.

But, in all seriousness, bringing a deus ex machina in a series, which is based upon gradually accounting your multiple choices, seems like the worst possible idea. Even if Casey Hudson and/or Mac Walters wrote the ending themselves, I still can't see how they could possibly think that kind of ending would be a good idea.

[MrRag]

I'm not surprised to see that 85% of the people who voted would like new endings instead of the Extended Cut DLC. Who did BioWare ask when they claimed that most players are fine with the endings? I think most people moved on and only the fans of the series are still here arguing for a better outcome.

[Cogneter]

MrRag wrote...

I think most people moved on and only the fans of the series are still here arguing for a better outcome.

That is likely the case. "It's just a video game" argument was already used by everyone who could bring themselves to not care.

[Cogneter]

Bumping.