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I was afraid this would happen.


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#76
JMA22TB

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Hihoshi101 wrote...

I feel insulted right now. I am an artist and not once in all my years of school did I ever get a passing grade for a piece of work that no one could figure out. The point of art is to speculate yes, but you can't have a beautiful painting of an realistic but alien world and shove stick figure on it and expect any one but people that try to pretend they 'get' art say that the sick figure was a good choice and fits perfectly into the rest of the painting.

The ending is lazy and the need for clarification proves it. So unless ME3's Clarification is IT as many believe or is the best writing they have every done, I don't think they can fix it.

So no we have not won yet...


There is no salvaging a last five minutes introduction to a deus ex machina character that was never foreshadowed that wiped out the entire galactic transportation infrastructure.

This was EA and Bioware wanting a clean slate to tell a new franchise's story on but done in a way that I will never respect.

#77
Baronesa

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The Angry One wrote...

Well, to clarify. (The Angry One Extended Cut)

When I say "we lose", I regarded this whole thing as a fight to save BioWare.
I don't want to lose BioWare, they made games I truly loved, and one of the few companies who actually acknowledge that female gamers exist.
If this continues, then I can't support BioWare anymore, and in that regard... I have lost.


THIS


It feels like we lost Bioware, not just ME3 ending...

The company that created wonderful games, the company that you could blindly say... I recomend their products, they are all great...

That company is dead... right now we just have a shell... a husk of the former Bioware, controlled by the EA overlords. And it hurts...

I loved BioWare... supported them buying games at full price rather than waiting for them to go on sale... now... now not even on sale they deserve my support... it stinks, it hurts.

#78
Sarevok Synder

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Life goes on, nobody's irreplaceable. Bioware have made their choice, now it's my turn.

#79
Velocithon

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Spot on.

#80
Orthodox Infidel

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The OP is awesome, but I especially like this part:

The Angry One wrote...

"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."
If your supposedly deep ending needs a handbook to go along with it, then it has failed.
If you admit your ending needs to be clarified, then it has failed.


I can't wait to see how the hell additonal cinematics that are going to clarify how Shepard is still a hero even though he accepts the logic of and works with the most prolific war criminal in galactic history.

I can't wait to see the cutscene that explains to me how the notion that synthetics will eventually kill off all organics can be predicted as certain even though it's an event that has never happened.

I'm dying to see the epilogue that will explain how the claim that synthetics and organics will always try to extinct each other because of their inherent differences is not racist logic and how this claim doesn't contradict the behavior of every synthetic we see in the trilogy except the Reapers.

Really, I'm soooooooooooo excited, because there's no way this can end except as an even larger embarassment.

#81
NICKjnp

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Bioware has been indoctrinated by the rEApers.

#82
Soulstice88

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double post Image IPB

Modifié par Soulstice88, 05 avril 2012 - 05:53 .


#83
Ashilana

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Orthodox Infidel wrote...
Really, I'm soooooooooooo excited, because there's no way this can end except as an even larger embarassment.


That is a kind of amusing way to think about this summer.  I can't wait to watch the "clarification" on youtube and see why Shep collaborates with the starchild/reaper master.

It might actually be funny....if I drink a bunch of vodka first.

#84
Headcount

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Well said Angry One.

#85
MintyCool

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Lend your voice by Thanking EA and Bioware by giving up what we want: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11037569

#86
Soulstice88

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[

The Angry One wrote...


Why do I always agree with you Image IPB weird

I pretty much expected this to be honest, if they would have admited that the ending was rushed and poorly written (which it is literary speaking, otherwise it wouldn't need "clarification") I would've been ok with this.

I'll wait and see what they do with this but I'm not holding my breath that it's anything beyond "well this is why this thing works, even though it contradicts lore and has no precedence in the universe".

It's really sad. I've been playing BioWare games since i was 10 (Baldur's Gate) and this is the last game of theirs that I'll be pre-ordering atleast.  From the blatant lies a week before release, to not admiting what happened (most people would've understood).  I'll have to completly spoil the entire story of any BioWare game I even want to buy now.

Modifié par Soulstice88, 05 avril 2012 - 05:54 .


#87
Guest_Nachtdämmerung_*

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Well said OP, I agree

I think, we should try to keep the movement alive. Instead of giving up or thinking we'd won/lost/whatever we should endure. As long this Ending DLC isn't finished we can let our voices be heard.

Yeah, I know I might be too optimistic about that...but I think this line is worth holding :)

Stand strong, stand together

#88
DevilBeast

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Leafs43 wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Their product, their decisions.


Our money, our decisions.


Yes, the decision to not buy any of their products.

#89
Rafe34

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The Angry One wrote...

So basically BioWare intend to condescend to us, ignoring the promises made and the fact that the ending violates the themes of the rest of the game.
Exactly as I predicted, people are coming out and saying we should be happy, that we "won", that we'll never be satisfied. It's the worst of both worlds.
Let's go over some of the arguments made by ending supporters and BioWare.

"You got what you wanted and you're still complaining! Some people will never be happy!"
No. I haven't got what I wanted. I wanted endings that fit the tone and themes of the trilogy, that fit the character of Commander Shepard. Not an explanation or extention of the existing endings.
I know a lot of others feel the same way. If I go to a restaurant and order steak and they give me porridge, am I being unreasonable for pointing out that I did not, in fact, order porridge?

"The artistic vision of the Mass Effect team must be preserved!"
I actually agree. It's their vision and their game. But here's the thing. The ending is not their vision. The ending is the vision of one man, the lead writer, who wrote and implimented it without peer review.
The ending as it is completely destroys the artistic vision of the writing team. It contradicts it. It cheapens it. It makes it all irrelevant. Not only ME3, but the entire trilogy.
That's the real dangerous precident here. That we allow one person, who did not create the universe in the first place, to ultimately decide the fate of a team effort.

"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."
If your supposedly deep ending needs a handbook to go along with it, then it has failed.
If you admit your ending needs to be clarified, then it has failed.

"LOL did you seriously expect a new ending?"
Yes. Yes I did. And I will continue to do so, or I won't even bother with BioWare anymore.
The ending as it stands is not just bad. It's broken, and no amount of "clarification" will change that.
How will they clarify the Normandy for example? Add Shepard telling Joker to go? That solves nothing. Why? Because Shepard doesn't have the authority to do so, only Hackett does. That's just one problem out of DOZENS.

"Stop complaining. It's free!"
Many of us have stated we'd rather pay for a new ending, than keep the current one for free. This is a non-argument.

"Retakers have won, shut up already."
No, we haven't won. If this goes through then we have lost. Badly.
Some of you may gain satisfaction from this, and all I have to say to that is... I pity you. You would rather see fans driven off than have BioWare live up to it's potential greatness. You'd rather see BioWare slide into mediocrity than ever admit they're wrong. It is, simply, a shame.
We started this movement because we love and appreciate BioWare but it's becoming increasingly clear that BioWare doesn't appreciate itself.


Completely agree. This is NOT a win, and this is not what we wanted, and if Bioware doesn't give out new endings, not just clarification, I'm done with them.

The fact that it's going to not be released until this summer is designed, I think. At that point, I wonder how many people will still be mad about the ending.

Phange2001 wrote...

The Commander Shepard from ME1 and ME2 would have told Starchild to shove it.

 

Well said. That's the most infuriating thing about the ending, that Shepard just gives up and accepts what the Catalyst offers him.

#90
DanteImprimis

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Very well said, TAO. I'll be watching to see if BioWare gives any additional info on this so-called "clarification" tomorrow at PAX, but I won't be holding my breath. As it is, ME3 (with its patented "Day One DLC"® technology) will probably be the last thing I ever buy from BioWare.

#91
curufinwe03

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I am way to angry to make a post that wouldn't violate the Rules of Conduct, so just say that I concur with the OPs opinion.
Now for something completly different. I'll just quote from of our favourite characters.
"Don't ****** in my ear and tell me it's raining."

#92
Kilshrek

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Yes, I worry that some people are simply impressed by the word free. It's sad to see that our expectations for a fulfilling experience are not reduced to such things.

It's free! Oh wow! They're so great.

I can't add anything else really, it's all been said, it's all been covered. Bioware may not have lied in the truest sense of the word, but they still lied. If the people responsible can look at themselves in the mirror and not feel ashamed at what they've done, then good for them. I can't say I respect any of what they've done here, or how they've handled the situation from start to finish.

I only hope that people can remain civil, I'm trying very hard to remain civil, while being so angry. I had my expectations set though, so there is no disappointment, but there is anger, anger at the whole thing. Anger at how they have cherry picked the feedback and gone for the simplest option.

I would have paid for the DLC that would change the ending, or make it not as **** as it was, but making it free and offering to me what I do not want is no way to win back my opinion.

#93
frylock23

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DevilBeast wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Their product, their decisions.


Our money, our decisions.


Yes, the decision to not buy any of their products.


And you better hope we are the minority; otherwise, there won't be product for anyone.

#94
Pedro Costa

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Baronesa wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well, to clarify. (The Angry One Extended Cut)

When I say "we lose", I regarded this whole thing as a fight to save BioWare.
I don't want to lose BioWare, they made games I truly loved, and one of the few companies who actually acknowledge that female gamers exist.
If this continues, then I can't support BioWare anymore, and in that regard... I have lost.


THIS


It feels like we lost Bioware, not just ME3 ending...

The company that created wonderful games, the company that you could blindly say... I recomend their products, they are all great...

That company is dead... right now we just have a shell... a husk of the former Bioware, controlled by the EA overlords. And it hurts...

I loved BioWare... supported them buying games at full price rather than waiting for them to go on sale... now... now not even on sale they deserve my support... it stinks, it hurts.

Too true, too true.

#95
Aubairjin

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JohnnyG wrote...

BARRAGE 74 wrote...

Only one thing left to do... Vote with your wallet.

I plan to.  It's really sad.  Over the years I have purchased the following from BioWare...

Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age: Origins – Awakening
Dragon Age: Origins - Leliana's Song DLC
Dragon Age: Origins - The Golems of Amgarrak DLC
Dragon Age: Origins - Witch Hunt DLC
Dragon Age II
Mass Effect
Mass Effect - Bring Down the Sky DLC
Mass Effect 2 (the one that already came with a lot of the DLC)
Mass Effect 2 - Arrival DLC
Mass Effect 2 - Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC
Mass Effect 3 Pre-Order
Neverwinter Nights
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

Unfortunately, ME3 will be the last dime I spend on the company (or EA) after this debacle.


My god, that sadden me even more. I'm roughly in the same buylist, removing the DAO DLC and adding NWN addon.

How the hell did this happen ? It feel like if I did just lost a friend.

#96
BecBec

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I agree with everything in the OP!!

#97
LaFawn

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The Angry One wrote...

So basically BioWare intend to condescend to us, ignoring the promises made and the fact that the ending violates the themes of the rest of the game.
Exactly as I predicted, people are coming out and saying we should be happy, that we "won", that we'll never be satisfied. It's the worst of both worlds.
Let's go over some of the arguments made by ending supporters and BioWare.

"You got what you wanted and you're still complaining! Some people will never be happy!"
No. I haven't got what I wanted. I wanted endings that fit the tone and themes of the trilogy, that fit the character of Commander Shepard. Not an explanation or extention of the existing endings.
I know a lot of others feel the same way. If I go to a restaurant and order steak and they give me porridge, am I being unreasonable for pointing out that I did not, in fact, order porridge?

"The artistic vision of the Mass Effect team must be preserved!"
I actually agree. It's their vision and their game. But here's the thing. The ending is not their vision. The ending is the vision of one man, the lead writer, who wrote and implimented it without peer review.
The ending as it is completely destroys the artistic vision of the writing team. It contradicts it. It cheapens it. It makes it all irrelevant. Not only ME3, but the entire trilogy.
That's the real dangerous precident here. That we allow one person, who did not create the universe in the first place, to ultimately decide the fate of a team effort.

"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."
If your supposedly deep ending needs a handbook to go along with it, then it has failed.
If you admit your ending needs to be clarified, then it has failed.

"LOL did you seriously expect a new ending?"
Yes. Yes I did. And I will continue to do so, or I won't even bother with BioWare anymore.
The ending as it stands is not just bad. It's broken, and no amount of "clarification" will change that.
How will they clarify the Normandy for example? Add Shepard telling Joker to go? That solves nothing. Why? Because Shepard doesn't have the authority to do so, only Hackett does. That's just one problem out of DOZENS.

"Stop complaining. It's free!"
Many of us have stated we'd rather pay for a new ending, than keep the current one for free. This is a non-argument.

"Retakers have won, shut up already."
No, we haven't won. If this goes through then we have lost. Badly.
Some of you may gain satisfaction from this, and all I have to say to that is... I pity you. You would rather see fans driven off than have BioWare live up to it's potential greatness. You'd rather see BioWare slide into mediocrity than ever admit they're wrong. It is, simply, a shame.
We started this movement because we love and appreciate BioWare but it's becoming increasingly clear that BioWare doesn't appreciate itself.


Well put.

#98
webhead921

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 I'm sorry but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you.  I think you are mischaracterizing some things in the original post.

"You got what you wanted and you're still complaining! Some people will never be happy!"---> I don't think re-takers got what they wanted, and they should continue to voice complaints about what is on the disc and about what they would like to see in the future.  Still, totally dismissing the free DLC before actually seeing any of the content is just being overly pessimistic.  The fact of the matter is, you don't know exactly what it is going to be.  I think it's reasonable to continue to voice your complaints about what is already on the disc, and to wait and see what bioware gives us.  I'm not saying "you got what you wanted."  Clearly you didn't.  But Bioware could have just done nothing, and instead they are trying to explain something.  The new ending might not be perfect, but who knows?  It might be significantly better.

]"The artistic vision of the Mass Effect team must be preserved!"---> I've never bought the whole "artistic vision" argument.  But I think that Bioware has a right to leave their endings as is if they are proud of their own work.  If you don't like it, you should tell them and if they continue to disappoint you, stop buying their products.  I used to love weezer.  Now I think they suck.  I don't demand that they change their albums to suit my tastes, I just don't buy them anymore. I don't think their recent albums have "artistic integrity," but they can do whatever the hell they want. I still listen to their debut album and Pinkerton, but other than that I don't care.  It sucks, but if you don't like something just don't buy it.  It has nothing to do with "artistic vision." 


"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."--> Regardless of whether or not you think the endings were good, I think clarification could improve the endings.  Your squad suddenly appeared on the normandy and joker ran away.  There is no explanation for this, and it sucks.  If they came up with an adequate explanation for this, it would significantly improve the ending.  A lot of people complain about the inconsistency with arrival.  If Bioware adequately explained why the crucible destroyed the relays without wiping out systems, it would improve the ending.  Some people complain that there is no closure.  An added epilogue could address this concern.


"LOL did you seriously expect a new ending?"-->It takes a lot of time to make video game content, yet people were demanding that bioware address the ending problem soon.  If you expected totally different endings, you should expect to wait a long time.  Also, as I said earlier, Bioware should not have to scrap their ending if they are legitimately pleased with it.  If you don't like it, vote with your wallet.


"Stop complaining. It's free!"-->I agree that this is a non-argument.  But there are posters on the forum who say that "Bioware will not be getting any of my money grr grr" and my response to them is: you can see what Bioware is attempting to do without giving them any more of your money.  And if you see the new ending and still don't like it, feel free to complain and criticize.  I would encourage it.  


"Retakers have won, shut up already."-->Retakers have not won, but at least this is a step in the right direction?  Bioware could have just done nothing.  Or they could have released paid DLC that had nothing but cutscenes (some posters here have already indicated that they would have bought that).  At least there's an attmept to fix some of the problems?  

By all means keep holding the line if you feel that's what you gotta do, but some of the violent reaction here is utterly ridiculous (i'm not referring to you, OP.  I'm just talking about some of the stuff I've seen here today generally speaking).

Modifié par webhead921, 05 avril 2012 - 06:14 .


#99
Vhalkyrie

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After DA2 and now ME3, Bioware doesn't make games that I like to play anymore. I was in denial about the direction they are going, but I can accept the facts now. I'm not their target audience or demographic anymore - the gamer invested in RPG gameplay, stories and characters.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 05 avril 2012 - 06:07 .


#100
Tony Redgrave

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Well said, Angry One. And I agree.