180 réponses à ce sujet

[Vromrig]

I realize the underlying reasons for your reactions, believe me. All that's been claimed in any substantial fashion is plot-holes, though, but you probably don't understand the plot well enough to argue those, so you're keeping your opinion ambiguous to avoid being cornered.

My opinion is very clear and I've always made it clear:

You cannot give us victory over the Reapers, while having us be defeated. You cannot give us defeat to the Reapers without victory. This paradox was exactly what we got.

You cannot change the entire dynamic of the entire series at the eleventh hour. You cannot introduce new characters and say "Everything up until now was a lie" and have a solid ending.

There's a reason people don't do this, it makes for bad endings.

But, the entire universe doesn't get destroyed in any ending.

Sure did.

[Ekyri]

Gigamantis wrote...

I realize the underlying reasons for your reactions, believe me.  All that's been claimed in any substantial fashion is plot-holes, though, but you probably don't understand the plot well enough to argue those, so you're keeping your opinion ambiguous to avoid being cornered. 

It's alright, most people espousing your view are all bark and no substance.  That's probably part of the reason why Bioware didn't take the movement seriously. 

"You're too stupid to get why its awesome"

[Baronesa]

Vroming.. I couldn't have said it better.

100% agree

[crimzontearz]

harsh but mostly right

[Vromrig]

And in a short cutscene with the flashback images of some of your crew (as is in game now), and this would be a perfect ending. Might still be nice ot have an epilogue of sorts in the victory case, but perfect ending to Shepard's story. The quiet moment on the Citadel was excellent.

Short epilogue. Your love interest stands over your memorial, pan out, explain where each of your squad members went on in life based on the decisions you made.

It's not hard, at all. Even if you did little more than a slide screen akin to Dragon Age: Origins.

Brief explanations of how you shaped the galaxy.

How the galaxy is a different place because you existed.

Modifié par Vromrig, 05 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[Allasae]

Thanks alot brother, this is a great read.

[Ariq]

Vromrig wrote...

Short epilogue. Your love interest stands over your memorial, pan out, explain where each of your squad members went on in life based on the decisions you made.

Yeah. That would do it. Perfect.

[Vromrig]

Ariq wrote...

Vromrig wrote...

Short epilogue. Your love interest stands over your memorial, pan out, explain where each of your squad members went on in life based on the decisions you made.

Yeah. That would do it. Perfect.

To hell with it I'll fix the ending in 15 minutes when I go into work.

[Gigamantis]

Aurvant wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

It's cute that you think that.

I saw a little girl that really strongly believed that the kitten she drew was good.

That little girl was probably a retaker and the kitten was the indoctrination theory.

You retakers threw a fit and it didn't work. There was never a reasonable case for your side of this, just a lot of butthurt fans rambling about plot-holes that are painfully easy to dissprove.

How about you take a minute to list out why you loved the ending and how it appropriately fits in with anything from the first two games.

Then, explain to all of us that didn't "get it" how the Crucible is able to do anything that it does. It can magically give synthetic life DNA to merge them with organics to create a new life-form? What? How does it do that?

How about you explain everything we didn't "get" and I'm sure that you're arguments will be SO GOOD that we won't be able to poke all sorts of holes in it, right?

I found everything in the ending appropriate. 

The crucible was a new weapon capable of unfathomable feats of destruction; meaning it was a new implement in the ME universe.  When something beyond the scope of the established science in the game is introduced in the beginning of the next game it can be capable of new and amazing things. 

A scientific explanation for it's capabilities would be fun but is hardly necessary. 

Tell me the things you didn't get and I'll explain them.  I'm not going to just list every inane argument I've heard on these forums and respond to it.  Make YOUR case and I'll deconstruct it.  

[I am KROGAN]

Bump for great JUSTICE

[Vromrig]

I found everything in the ending appropriate.

The crucible was a new weapon capable of unfathomable feats of destruction; meaning it was a new implement in the ME universe. When something beyond the scope of the established science in the game is introduced in the beginning of the next game it can be capable of new and amazing things.

A scientific explanation for it's capabilities would be fun but is hardly necessary.

Tell me the things you didn't get and I'll explain them. I'm not going to just list every inane argument I've heard on these forums and respond to it. Make YOUR case and I'll deconstruct it.

I don't care about a scientific explanation for the Crucible. That never mattered to me.

I care that the plot went like this:

________REAPERS KILL PEOPLE ____________ REAPERS INTENT ON DESTRUCTION __________ASK REAPERS WHAT THEY WANT THEY WANT TO KILL ____________BAND TOGETHER ______________MAKE GALAXY BETTER PLACE__________UNIFY FACTIONS_________________MAKE PEACE WITH SYNTHETICS________________EXPLORE PHILOSOPHY OF SYNTHETIC LIFE COMPARED TO ORGANIC LIFE ____________>>>>>

Come to ending, this straight line stops. Immediately and goes in a different direction

|
|
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Reapers actually good guys
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You lied to yourself, synthetics aren't life, Legion was an ****
|
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Everything you did up until now is undone.

Though I'm getting side tracked here.

My thread is about the lie we were told about artistic integrity and why we have to swallow why our investment ind ollars, time, and emotion don't matter.

There was no artistic integrity in this ending.  Artistic integrity suggests that your ending stays true to the vision you had at the beginning.

This, however, is not the case.

Modifié par Vromrig, 05 avril 2012 - 05:56 .

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

Aurvant wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

It's cute that you think that.

I saw a little girl that really strongly believed that the kitten she drew was good.

That little girl was probably a retaker and the kitten was the indoctrination theory.

You retakers threw a fit and it didn't work. There was never a reasonable case for your side of this, just a lot of butthurt fans rambling about plot-holes that are painfully easy to dissprove.

How about you take a minute to list out why you loved the ending and how it appropriately fits in with anything from the first two games.

Then, explain to all of us that didn't "get it" how the Crucible is able to do anything that it does. It can magically give synthetic life DNA to merge them with organics to create a new life-form? What? How does it do that?

How about you explain everything we didn't "get" and I'm sure that you're arguments will be SO GOOD that we won't be able to poke all sorts of holes in it, right?

I found everything in the ending appropriate. 

The crucible was a new weapon capable of unfathomable feats of destruction; meaning it was a new implement in the ME universe.  When something beyond the scope of the established science in the game is introduced in the beginning of the next game it can be capable of new and amazing things. 

A scientific explanation for it's capabilities would be fun but is hardly necessary. 

Tell me the things you didn't get and I'll explain them.  I'm not going to just list every inane argument I've heard on these forums and respond to it.  Make YOUR case and I'll deconstruct it.  

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 05:55 .

[Gigamantis]

You cannot give us victory over the Reapers, while having us be defeated. You cannot give us defeat to the Reapers without victory. This paradox was exactly what we got.

Victory was the universe surviving.  You wanted complete victory with hand-holding, cake and dancing.  The ending was bitter-sweet with pretty much any option, but the reapers were defeated with substantial loss to the galaxy. 

You cannot change the entire dynamic of the entire series at the eleventh hour. You cannot introduce new characters and say "Everything up until now was a lie" and have a solid ending.

There's a reason people don't do this, it makes for bad endings.

You can introduce a new character at the end and he didn't change the entire dynamic of the series.  He said synthetics would overtake organics, which was already an established possibility. 

[The Angry One]

Well said OP.

[Gigamantis]

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

[UndeadTRex]

You're all just angry because you aren't smart enough to understand the artistic brilliance of the ending. I mean, would they really get all those great scores if it wasn't the best thing ever? Who really cares about what the fans say anyways?

[Yokokorama]

Its not just the plot-holes of teleporting squadmates that people here are considered about. Its about the absolute disregard of what the series had been building up to for the entire trilogy.

[alx119]

Vromrig, don't feed the troll, it's becoming painful to see you getting worked up because of the chicken.

[Vromrig]

alx119 wrote...

Vromrig, don't feed the troll, it's becoming painful to see you getting worked up because of the chicken.

I'm hardly worked up.

But I'd rather make my points clear and consistent and easily tracable.

[Mcfly616]

Bump for the OP ...

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

Which kills the franchise because it's no longer the universe fans cared about in the first place.  They torched it and made you pull the trigger, killing any enjoyment of past or future games (already confirmed to be prequels) with the cloud of inevitable grimdark end of the universe hanging over them.  Plain and simple. 

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[The man of myth]

I don't understand how people say every choice is pointless. Many choices of the previous games were applied/resolved during the course of the game. For good or bad so people had expectations that were set too high for what Bioware was able to accomplish. Bottom line, you think the story isn't intellectual, and has no cohesion. Maybe, maybe not.

[SirBob1613]

Gigamantis wrote...

There are no facts. All of the plot-holes you people try to invent are very poorly constructed speculation.

The ending was good and Bioware should be proud of it. You didn't get your way and you're upset.

Yes you are right i am upset am upset becuase my shepard believed that the star childs bull**** logic was good
Am upset becuase my choices didnt matter
Am upset becuase shepard just commited mass murder
Am upset because i was introduced to a child telling me what to do
Am upset because bioware didnt listen to us and thought they where right
Am upset becuase space magic is a dumb ending
Am upset because the 16 endings turned out to be green red a blue
Am upset because all the relays blew up sending us to a dark age of death
Am upset becuase supporters of the ending fail to explain why its good
Am upset becuase i put time and effort into a series based on choices to be put on rails at the end

Modifié par SirBob1613, 05 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Vromrig]

The man of myth wrote...

I don't understand how people say every choice is pointless. Many choices of the previous games were applied/resolved during the course of the game. For good or bad so people had expectations that were set too high for what Bioware was able to accomplish. Bottom line, you think the story isn't intellectual, and has no cohesion. Maybe, maybe not.

The first two games set up three main choices in the third game that were told in acts:

1. The fate of the Quarians
2. The fate of the Krogan
3. The fate of the Geth

Guess which of these matter.

[Jassu1979]

Gigamantis wrote...

There are no facts. All of the plot-holes you people try to invent are very poorly constructed speculation. 

Don't be ridiculous. Even you can't possibly miss that your ground team could not possibly be on the Normandy, and that there's ZERO reason for Joker to turn tail.