180 réponses à ce sujet

[Gigamantis]

Vromrig wrote...

I found everything in the ending appropriate.

The crucible was a new weapon capable of unfathomable feats of destruction; meaning it was a new implement in the ME universe. When something beyond the scope of the established science in the game is introduced in the beginning of the next game it can be capable of new and amazing things.

A scientific explanation for it's capabilities would be fun but is hardly necessary.

Tell me the things you didn't get and I'll explain them. I'm not going to just list every inane argument I've heard on these forums and respond to it. Make YOUR case and I'll deconstruct it.

I don't care about a scientific explanation for the Crucible. That never mattered to me.

I care that the plot went like this:

________REAPERS KILL PEOPLE ____________ REAPERS INTENT ON DESTRUCTION __________ASK REAPERS WHAT THEY WANT THEY WANT TO KILL ____________BAND TOGETHER ______________MAKE GALAXY BETTER PLACE__________UNIFY FACTIONS_________________MAKE PEACE WITH SYNTHETICS________________EXPLORE PHILOSOPHY OF SYNTHETIC LIFE COMPARED TO ORGANIC LIFE ____________>>>>>

Come to ending, this straight line stops. Immediately and goes in a different direction

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Reapers actually good guys
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You lied to yourself, synthetics aren't life, Legion was an ****
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Everything you did up until now is undone.

Though I'm getting side tracked here.

My thread is about the lie we were told about artistic integrity and why we have to swallow why our investment ind ollars, time, and emotion don't matter.

There was no artistic integrity in this ending.  Artistic integrity suggests that your ending stays true to the vision you had at the beginning.

This, however, is not the case.

Dear god, artistic integrity isn't "never change anything; no twists; no surprises; the bad guys are always bad; the good guys are always good; only predictable things should happen."  

AI has always been a point of contention in the series.  Can it be trusted?  Will it turn on us?  The answer being "yes" in the eyes of a being that's seen multiple cycles isn't really a 180.  Shepard having an AI friend named EDI and getting the Geth to cooperate on Rannoch isn't the proof synthetics can always be trusted to a rational person.  

[eddieoctane]

Just wanted to say how much I agree with the OP before this gets locked along with every other thread that says anything negative about BioWare, EA, or their staff.

[PistolPete7556]

I will until the day I die hate that stupid space kid. What a dumb idea to throw in at the last minute

[DanteImprimis]

Vromrig wrote...

I've given Bioware enough with that.  That was about respect for a character, a respect they don't show the very same character.

The sacrifice he made we all wept for was swept under the rug in a sudden and momentary bout of Casey Hudson wanting to pretend he was Quado from Total Recall, telling us to "open our minds".

To be completely honest, I was originally going to respond to your OP with some adapted line from ME. Then I read this.

Thanks for eloquently giving voice to those of us who just can't be arsed anymore.

[Leem_0001]

Really agree with the OP. Well put.

[Doctor Uburian]

Gigamantis wrote...

Vromrig wrote...

I found everything in the ending appropriate.

The crucible was a new weapon capable of unfathomable feats of destruction; meaning it was a new implement in the ME universe. When something beyond the scope of the established science in the game is introduced in the beginning of the next game it can be capable of new and amazing things.

A scientific explanation for it's capabilities would be fun but is hardly necessary.

Tell me the things you didn't get and I'll explain them. I'm not going to just list every inane argument I've heard on these forums and respond to it. Make YOUR case and I'll deconstruct it.

I don't care about a scientific explanation for the Crucible. That never mattered to me.

I care that the plot went like this:

________REAPERS KILL PEOPLE ____________ REAPERS INTENT ON DESTRUCTION __________ASK REAPERS WHAT THEY WANT THEY WANT TO KILL ____________BAND TOGETHER ______________MAKE GALAXY BETTER PLACE__________UNIFY FACTIONS_________________MAKE PEACE WITH SYNTHETICS________________EXPLORE PHILOSOPHY OF SYNTHETIC LIFE COMPARED TO ORGANIC LIFE ____________>>>>>

Come to ending, this straight line stops. Immediately and goes in a different direction

|
|
|
Reapers actually good guys
|
|
You lied to yourself, synthetics aren't life, Legion was an ****
|
|
Everything you did up until now is undone.

Though I'm getting side tracked here.

My thread is about the lie we were told about artistic integrity and why we have to swallow why our investment ind ollars, time, and emotion don't matter.

There was no artistic integrity in this ending.  Artistic integrity suggests that your ending stays true to the vision you had at the beginning.

This, however, is not the case.

Dear god, artistic integrity isn't "never change anything; no twists; no surprises; the bad guys are always bad; the good guys are always good; only predictable things should happen."  

AI has always been a point of contention in the series.  Can it be trusted?  Will it turn on us?  The answer being "yes" in the eyes of a being that's seen multiple cycles isn't really a 180.  Shepard having an AI friend named EDI and getting the Geth to cooperate on Rannoch isn't the proof synthetics can always be trusted to a rational person.  

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 05 avril 2012 - 06:09 .

[Jadebaby]

assuming direct control of this bump.

[Gigamantis]

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

Which kills the franchise because it's no longer the universe fans cared about in the first place.  They torched it and made you pull the trigger, killing any enjoyment of past or future games (already confirmed to be prequels) with the cloud of inevitable grimdark end of the universe hanging over them.  Plain and simple. 

You knew the series was ending and all the DLC would be prequels.  Bad or good you knew it was going to be over and pre-ending DLC wasn't going to change whatever happens to the ME universe.  

[Jassu1979]

The man of myth wrote...

I don't understand how people say every choice is pointless. Many choices of the previous games were applied/resolved during the course of the game. For good or bad so people had expectations that were set too high for what Bioware was able to accomplish. Bottom line, you think the story isn't intellectual, and has no cohesion. Maybe, maybe not.

You saved the Krogans - who are now stuck in the Sol system, never to see their home planet again.

You re-united the Quarians and the Geth - only to be told that synthetic life will ALWAYS wipe out organic life, and you either need to destroy the geth or turn everyone into half-machines via space magic.

You (re-)established a romance - and it all ends with you dying in one gruesome fashion or other, and your love interest stranded on an unknown planet, potentially re-populating it with Joker's children in order to preserve the human race.

[Doctor Uburian]

Bump on the name of the Galaxy

[Gigamantis]

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

[Kismet]

Excellent post! It sums up my feelings exactly.

[Jadebaby]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

"Direct intervention is necessary."

"Your attacks are an insult doctor, I do not accept his logic anymore than you do."

[Jadebaby]

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

Which makes him as evil as Hitler.

[Yougottawanna]

OP is correct IMO - I can't honestly believe that Bioware as a whole truly supports this ending.

Maybe the people that wrote it, and have invested their pride in it, and are surrounded by cheerleaders for it, genuinely think it's good. But the company as a whole? It's hard to believe.

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

Which kills the franchise because it's no longer the universe fans cared about in the first place.  They torched it and made you pull the trigger, killing any enjoyment of past or future games (already confirmed to be prequels) with the cloud of inevitable grimdark end of the universe hanging over them.  Plain and simple. 

You knew the series was ending and all the DLC would be prequels.  Bad or good you knew it was going to be over and pre-ending DLC wasn't going to change whatever happens to the ME universe.  

No.  It was repeatedly indicated that Me3 would be the end of Shepard's story, not the end of the entire franchise.

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 06:19 .

[TheoRuffy]

I hate with all my str all the so called "intellectual" movies. That kind of movie that makes no sense at all, but to the one that worte it. Now looks like were going to have "intellectual" games. Live is already to ****ed up, we play video games to escape, to be part of an amzing story. I loved Bioware games. Even know i think Kotor is the best game i ever played. DAO and Neverwinter Nights ere perfect. Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 were awesome until the very last 10 minutes of the game, when they screwd everything up. I think from now on, i'm never going to give one cent to bioware again.

[The man of myth]

Jassu1979 wrote...

The man of myth wrote...

I don't understand how people say every choice is pointless. Many choices of the previous games were applied/resolved during the course of the game. For good or bad so people had expectations that were set too high for what Bioware was able to accomplish. Bottom line, you think the story isn't intellectual, and has no cohesion. Maybe, maybe not.

You saved the Krogans - who are now stuck in the Sol system, never to see their home planet again.

You re-united the Quarians and the Geth - only to be told that synthetic life will ALWAYS wipe out organic life, and you either need to destroy the geth or turn everyone into half-machines via space magic.

You (re-)established a romance - and it all ends with you dying in one gruesome fashion or other, and your love interest stranded on an unknown planet, potentially re-populating it with Joker's children in order to preserve the human race.

So what? They were resolved the stories it doesn't have to be all roses. The Protheans were completely obliterated. Just because you don't like the resolution doesn't mean it's not valid. Welcome to the real world.

[Gigamantis]

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

Which kills the franchise because it's no longer the universe fans cared about in the first place.  They torched it and made you pull the trigger, killing any enjoyment of past or future games (already confirmed to be prequels) with the cloud of inevitable grimdark end of the universe hanging over them.  Plain and simple. 

You knew the series was ending and all the DLC would be prequels.  Bad or good you knew it was going to be over and pre-ending DLC wasn't going to change whatever happens to the ME universe.  

No.  ME3 was repeatedly said to be the end of Shepard's story, not the end of the entire franchise.

So, Bioware has said there will be Mass Effect games that take place after the ending of 3? 

That's interesting.  I'd imagine the ME Relays being destroyed won't be the canon ending, then, or it will be a very different kind of game. 

[Doctor Uburian]

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

And he makes a wrong usage of his power.

He has not the right to choose every sapient life form's fate.

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 05 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Deconstruct the hard fact that without mass relays there is no interstellar travel because no mortal race can survive the trip in FTL.

If the relays are destroyed the galaxy will have to survive as it did before interstellar travel, and eventually rebuild to that point.

Which kills the franchise because it's no longer the universe fans cared about in the first place.  They torched it and made you pull the trigger, killing any enjoyment of past or future games (already confirmed to be prequels) with the cloud of inevitable grimdark end of the universe hanging over them.  Plain and simple. 

You knew the series was ending and all the DLC would be prequels.  Bad or good you knew it was going to be over and pre-ending DLC wasn't going to change whatever happens to the ME universe.  

No.  ME3 was repeatedly said to be the end of Shepard's story, not the end of the entire franchise.

So, Bioware has said there will be Mass Effect games that take place after the ending of 3? 

That's interesting.  I'd imagine the ME Relays being destroyed won't be the canon ending, then, or it will be a very different kind of game. 

No, they most certainly did not.  They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. 

http://www.thatvideo...-mass-effect-3/

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[Gigamantis]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

Which makes him as evil as Hitler.

Yea, the catalyst wasn't overly compassionate or moral.  Most antagonists who attempt genocide on an entire galaxy of races and species aren't. 

[CaliGuy033]

Vromrig wrote...

There's no point in romancing anyone, all that you do is break that character's heart at best.  You doom them to a dark age of despair as the entire galaxy we fell in love with goes away in a single moment.

Oh no, Bioware has broken the heart of my fictional character's fictional love interest.  Woe is me. 

[Gigamantis]

No, they didn't. They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. There will be no sequels.

Then why does the relays being destroyed at the end of ME3 matter?

[Doctor Uburian]

Gigamantis wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

Which makes him as evil as Hitler.

Yea, the catalyst wasn't overly compassionate or moral.  Most antagonists who attempt genocide on an entire galaxy of races and species aren't. 

The catalys was a machine, because he was the slave of an useless and self-destructive logic. The geth for example, have the free will to chose for themselves, so they are not machines any more.

I wonder what the reapers would have chosen to do if they have had free will...

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 05 avril 2012 - 06:26 .