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[Gigamantis]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

And he makes a wrong usage of his power.

He has not the right to choose every sapient life form's fate.

Yea, the catalyst is the bad guy and it's very mean of him to try and kill everyone.  I'm not disputing that.  The catalyst has the reapers though, and those pesky reapers can't be stopped without the crucible. 

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

No, they didn't. They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. There will be no sequels.

Then why does the relays being destroyed at the end of ME3 matter?

Because it undoes all of the work you did unifying the galaxy during the entire series.  It also casts a dark shadow over any possible prequel because you already know that the universe ends, and you were denied any possibility of stopping it.

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 06:28 .

[Silveralen]

By clarifying on the ending, they are apparently rewriting parts of it, by adding stuff most of s dismissed as optimistic garbage. Rebuilding relays, all the synthetics surviving destruction, no one starving to death, Shepard reuniting with the crew, etc. Apparently, they actually intended these to be feasible possibilities, but they managed to word the ending in such a way they were seen as hopelessly naive/optimistic by most.

So, they are clarifying the ending, because the ending which logically occurs isn't the ending they meant to give us. The ending we hate wasn't the actual ending, our choices did matter (galactic society gets rebuilt afterall), and which color light we picked will have an effect. Well, starkid is still in it, but I'll take 3/4ths of a fix.

[Lookout1390]

Great read OP, and thank you for posting it.

We can all say what we want, but I think this morning, the Mass Effect ship has sailed......right into a black-hole in flashing red, green, and blue colors.

This franchise's fate has been sealed, due to a writer's pride and can't admit that what he came up with was total ****.

There is good side to this though, he won't be doing much artistic writing when there is no money to pay for any of the projects.

[Skitzophreak]

Kesak12 wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

I'm bumping this thread because the original post is awesome.

[Gigamantis]

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

No, they didn't. They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. There will be no sequels.

Then why does the relays being destroyed at the end of ME3 matter?

Because it undoes all of the unification you did throughout the entire series.  It also casts a dark shadow over any possible prequel because you already know that the universe you're playing in the prequel ends in the stupidest possible way.

I'm not sure if Bioware claimed the Relay destroying ending is canon or not, but just pick a different one then. 

[MintyCool]

Vromrig wrote...
Deal with it.

How incredibly laughable. lol.


1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout
the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self
preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal
fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and
sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment.
This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to
see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme
becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story?

No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit
of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different
theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up
exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a
mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the
escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore
possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they
finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find
this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety; in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11037569

Modifié par MintyCool, 05 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[Pedro Costa]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

I'm bumping this thread because the original post is awesome.

[ReavousX]

I grow so tired of all this. I'm in agreement with OP.

I tried to work up a thread of my own, but I just took myself down a rabbit hole of disappointment. What I had predicted (cut scenes injected, cut dialogue back in, and what will likely be a text epilogue) is coming to pass, and while I'm glad that Bioware has taken action at all, I can't help but feel like the endings could have been so much more altogether.

I wish I could be content with the ending like other people, but I just can't. In my opinion, they cut corners at the very moment they absolutely shouldn't have. From the Cerberus Base onward, it felt as though it was just a race to the finish line.

I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality of the extended cut, I hope there's more to it than just throwing back in content that was left on the cutting room floor. We've already seen quite a bit of it, thanks to the "Final Hours" app, and while it certainly adds to the ending, it doesn't fix what is broken.

[CheekyWeazel]

Up until a single lift of an elevator, you were writing the Sci Fi War and Peace.

As soon as that elevator lifted, you turned it into a 5 year story
composed entirely of Jack's poetry from Lair of the Shadow Broker.

My thoughts exactly.
Thanks.

Modifié par CheekyWeazel, 05 avril 2012 - 06:32 .

[Doctor Uburian]

Gigamantis wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

And he makes a wrong usage of his power.

He has not the right to choose every sapient life form's fate.

Yea, the catalyst is the bad guy and it's very mean of him to try and kill everyone.  I'm not disputing that.  The catalyst has the reapers though, and those pesky reapers can't be stopped without the crucible. 

The crucible is an artifact that can defeat the reapers, but that doesn't make it the only way to defeat them.

[BWGungan]

Silveralen wrote...

By clarifying on the ending, they are apparently rewriting parts of it, by adding stuff most of s dismissed as optimistic garbage. Rebuilding relays, all the synthetics surviving destruction, no one starving to death, Shepard reuniting with the crew, etc. Apparently, they actually intended these to be feasible possibilities, but they managed to word the ending in such a way they were seen as hopelessly naive/optimistic by most.

So, they are clarifying the ending, because the ending which logically occurs isn't the ending they meant to give us. The ending we hate wasn't the actual ending, our choices did matter (galactic society gets rebuilt afterall), and which color light we picked will have an effect. Well, starkid is still in it, but I'll take 3/4ths of a fix.

That might actually satisfy me if true.

Also.. the logical outcome of blue ending:

http://t3.gstatic.co...qbefLTJw6qWouWg

[Ariq]

MintyCool wrote...

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence.

Your version got a debate? My version got the Reaper King Starchild dictating that I renounce everything I'd fought for in the previous 2.9 games. Maybe I missed the debate after my eyes glazed over from the astounding insult to reason and higher thought processes that masqueraded as the Starchild's logic?

[Gigamantis]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

And he makes a wrong usage of his power.

He has not the right to choose every sapient life form's fate.

Yea, the catalyst is the bad guy and it's very mean of him to try and kill everyone.  I'm not disputing that.  The catalyst has the reapers though, and those pesky reapers can't be stopped without the crucible. 

The crucible is an artifact that can defeat the reapers, but that doesn't make it the only way to defeat them.

What's the other way.  It was pretty well established they couldn't be defeated by force. 

[BWGungan]

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

No, they didn't. They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. There will be no sequels.

Then why does the relays being destroyed at the end of ME3 matter?

Because it undoes all of the unification you did throughout the entire series.  It also casts a dark shadow over any possible prequel because you already know that the universe you're playing in the prequel ends in the stupidest possible way.

I'm not sure if Bioware claimed the Relay destroying ending is canon or not, but just pick a different one then. 

Also, if you didn't notice, I editted "the stupidest possible way" to read "and being denied any possibility of stopping it", which is worse than stupid in my eyes.

It also poisons replayability of the series in the same way it would in a new prequel.

Modifié par BWGungan, 05 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[Setrah]

I strongly agree with the topic starter. I know noone cares, but I still agree. The ending is not what I fought for.

I was told my decisions mattered. They didn't.

I was told I was shaping the galaxy. I wasn't.

I was told I was supposed to save all sentient races from certain doom. I didn't (think fleets stuck around destroyed Earth, or planets forever separated from their food supply worlds).

I was told the ending would answer all my questions. It didn't; it only raised more.

I was told there would be cake. It was a lie.

No matter how boring planet scanning was, I never lost the desire to replay ME2 over and over again. Now I don't even want to start another campaign in any of the games. Why bother? The ending is all the same anyway. If I were Commander Shepard... well, I'd just turn around, go find the biggest gun I could and started shooting Reapers out of the sky one by one. Because I wouldn't even need Admiral Ackbar when I saw a huge button that said "destroy all Reapers".

[Doctor Uburian]

Gigamantis wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

As well as some organics can not be trusted.

The logic of the reapers is nothing more than the personification of the chaos.

The problem is that synthetics eventually become VASTLY superior to organics. When that happens an overtaking isn't all that far-fetched when synthetics are proven to have aggressive tendencies.

Again, the catalyst is more basing this on experience than logic. He's seen several cycles and believes it's inevitable. Right or wrong he had the power to make the world conform to his beliefs.

And he makes a wrong usage of his power.

He has not the right to choose every sapient life form's fate.

Yea, the catalyst is the bad guy and it's very mean of him to try and kill everyone.  I'm not disputing that.  The catalyst has the reapers though, and those pesky reapers can't be stopped without the crucible. 

The crucible is an artifact that can defeat the reapers, but that doesn't make it the only way to defeat them.

What's the other way.  It was pretty well established they couldn't be defeated by force. 

But that would have made much more sense than the multicolor space magic.

The Crucible's beam should have jumped from reaper to reaper instead of using the relay network.

[Gigamantis]

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

No, they didn't. They specifically said that any new ME games would take place during the events of ME3 or before that. There will be no sequels.

Then why does the relays being destroyed at the end of ME3 matter?

Because it undoes all of the unification you did throughout the entire series.  It also casts a dark shadow over any possible prequel because you already know that the universe you're playing in the prequel ends in the stupidest possible way.

I'm not sure if Bioware claimed the Relay destroying ending is canon or not, but just pick a different one then. 

Also, if you didn't notice, I editted "the stupidest possible way" to read "and being denied any possibility of stopping it", which is worse than stupid in my eyes.

It also poisons replayability of the series in the same way it would in a new prequel.

You wanted a happier ending and your upset they didn't give you that option.  It's fine, but that doesn't make the ending stupid. 

[Doctor Uburian]

Bump

(Sorry for doble-post)

[TODD9999]

A good post.

. . . I'll admit I was mostly tempted into clicking by the hope for more Mordin-style speech, although I understand your reasoning for no longer sticking with that.

[Gigamantis]

But that would have made much more sense than the multicolor space magic.

The Crucible's beam should have jumped from reaper to reaper instead of using the relay network.

The crucible resolution made fine sense, it was just more complicated than a "we're losing ... reapers destroying us ... still losing ... oh, we won" ending.

[savionen]

Gigamantis wrote...

You wanted a happier ending and your upset they didn't give you that option.  It's fine, but that doesn't make the ending stupid. 

The ending is stupid because its..... stupid. Has almost nothing to do with Shepard dying, or the relays exploding. Has everything to do with changing the trilogy's themes, ideals, main characters to rubbish, and making the player's choices worthless in the last 10 minutes.


BTW everything in-game told me that I could beat the Reapers in a conventional war. Pavalen was being held, EMS and the % rating said I was holding keep points and pushing the Reapers away. If a fleet of 5000 EMS can handle the Reapers than why can't 10000? Where's the Thanix cannons? The idea of beating them in a conventional war just disappeared randomly, because of Starchild.

Modifié par savionen, 05 avril 2012 - 06:44 .

[Setrah]

Gigamantis wrote...
I'm not sure if Bioware claimed the Relay destroying ending is canon or not, but just pick a different one then. 

...nevermind that they are destroyed in every ending?

[Gigamantis]

savionen wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

You wanted a happier ending and your upset they didn't give you that option.  It's fine, but that doesn't make the ending stupid. 

The ending is stupid because its..... stupid. Has almost nothing to do with Shepard dying, or the relays exploding. Has everything to do with changing the trilogy's themes, ideals, main characters to rubbish, and making the player's choices worthless in the last 10 minutes.

The ending is sad and Shepards final situation is a hopeless one.  You couldn't Paragon or Renegade your way to absolute victory and had to compromise your ideals and make a huge sacrifice to save the galaxy.  You wanted to be able to force a happy ending and you couldn't. 

[Gigamantis]

Setrah wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
I'm not sure if Bioware claimed the Relay destroying ending is canon or not, but just pick a different one then. 

...nevermind that they are destroyed in every ending?

You're right, the relays being destroyed is canon.  I was incorrect.