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[Mastermadskills]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Mastermadskills wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
"SNIP"

Please do not post pictures in this thread.  Kindly remove this and provide constructive comments in it's place so we can maintain a good thread environment.  Thank you.

No. The picture sums up my opinion of this thread and the "movement" it is trying to create. It is just as "construcivee" as any other post and I have just as much a right to post it as everyone else had the right to post their words.

I do applaud you direct and civil request that I remove it, but I will not. If there is some way you or an admin can there is nothing I can do about it.

My concern did not lie with your opinion, and I respect your right to do as you wish.

My concern is with the rules and even for your account.  Pictures are not often allowed to be posted without moderator action on them and warnings/bannings by the Forum Administrators, of which we have no quarrel and direct no boycot against.

I would kindly ask once more to please replace the picture with a written dialogue that we can intelligently talk about.  A picture doesn't allow this to happen.

~MMS

Modifié par Mastermadskills, 10 avril 2012 - 02:03 .

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Mastermadskills wrote...

I feel it is imporant to insert another reminder:

Please do not destroy the friendly environment of my thread. Please do not use passive-aggressiveness in responses to those who disagree with you, and please respect all views and opinions.

Feel free to offer your opinion, but keep it hate-free.

Thanks!

Probably best if you add that to the first post.

[wasawsolos]

I wish I could say that I would never buy.... whatever.. but the fact is, I will probably buy me4 if is comes out and i will DEFINITELY BUY KOTOR 3 if they ever make one. I mean if BioWare made KOTOR 3.. I would say Take my money! So I am hope they MAKE KOTOR 3 so I can say take my money because you made KOTOR 3.

so yeah.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Dia2blo wrote...

At the risk of this sounding like another argument, saying "vote with our wallets" is in no way any different to a threat. You are threatening to not buy any more products unless they change the ending.

Trying to come off as peaceful (probably due to the obvious success of the cupcake and charity scheme) doesn't change the fact that this whole "movement" is essentially an attempt to blackmail or threaten a company with the possiblity that members won't buy their products.

It's the same as a strike. Employees threaten to not work if their demands aren't met, and then if they're not, they don't work. It doesn't always mean they get what they want though.

I'm not trying to have a go, but at the end of the day, people are angry, so they're going to want to do such things. Trying to make it sound peaceful etc. doesn't really change what it is. To be fair though, if this whole thing means that Bioware/ EA does step up and change some of their ways (DLC, rushing games etc.- not that ME3 was rushed IMO.) then I don't mind it taking place. Just don't sugar coat it.

That's a rather cynical view of things.  I'm a pessimist myself, but you gotta apply reason to your pessimism.  People shouldn't just have to shut up and deal with everything EAware throws at them.   If they take an honest attempt at fighting back, only to be labelled as blackmailers, then just what else do you suggest?

[Blade Blackheart]

You may ask, Why don't you just stop buying BW/EA and return your copy of ME3? Personally, because I care. Because I love this series, I got very much emotionally involved in it, and I do believe that BW was rushed into releasing M3 (not to mention DA2) too quickly for pure greed. There's nothing wrong with taking a few more months to release a game, especially when it's set such wonderful precedents with the first two chapters and expectations are sky high. Dropping BW cold would break my gamer's heart, because it wouldn't give them a chance of hearing me out and continue that dialogue they started with us when they said they listen to us (and, indeed, they did incorporate in the game a lot of what the fans asked for). Unfortunately, greed always gets the best out of everything, and I think that the greedy part of BW/EA needs to hear this for the dialogue to continue and thrive.

[Denora]

Look, the only thing this movement can do is hurt/annoy Bioware. I think I'll use a quote from my dad to me when I was a lad and I yelled at the ice cream truck driver. "Do you really want to ****** off the person who hands you your treats?"

Silly yes, but nonetheless, I feel it's relevant. You want to help Bioware? You want better games? Then provide constructive resources for them. It seems like they don't listen but they do. But, respectfully, demanding change and taking money away from a company already short on time and money doesn't seem very smart in my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but it seems like movements like this merely further back Bioware into a corner and most when backed into a corner attack.

I see two one of outcomes, Bioware attacks (stops listening to fans) or Bioware is overwhelmed and and gets put down like many of the other companies EA has taken in the past.

I didn't like the ending, I strongly disliked the star child appearance, lack of dynamic outcomes, and absence of closure. It seemed like a combination of bad writing and rushed content with low resources. I want a change, but to do that we have to work together positively and not be so divided like we are. Not just the fans divided, but Bioware and the fans used to be friends. Friends give can help each other out even when the other seems like they've forgotten (just means we have to remind them).

On a final note - I'm going to leave forums. I have a difficult time conversing with many of the people here without being trolled, yelled at, or watching people attack each other with closed minds over mundane topics. It disappoints me. So hopefully things can work out.


Best of Luck.

Modifié par Denora, 10 avril 2012 - 02:24 .

[Denora]

>>double posted, the forum bugged on me. Sorry!!<<

Modifié par Denora, 10 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[DJBare]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...
That's a rather cynical view of things.  I'm a pessimist myself, but you gotta apply reason to your pessimism.  People shouldn't just have to shut up and deal with everything EAware throws at them.   If they take an honest attempt at fighting back, only to be labelled as blackmailers, then just what else do you suggest?

Hate to say it, but the text in your sig comes off as threatening, I'm sure that was not your intention, but to threaten someone is to hurt them.

[Mastermadskills]

Denora wrote...

Look, the only thing this movement can do is hurt/annoy Bioware. I think I'll use a quote from my dad to me when I was a lad and I yelled at the ice cream truck driver. "Do you really want to ****** of the person who hands you your treats?"

Silly yes, but nonetheless, I feel it's relevant. You want to help Bioware? You want better games? Then provide constructive resources for them. It seems like they don't listen but they do. But, respectfully, demanding change and taking money away from a company already short on time and money doesn't seem very smart in my opinion.

Every is entitled to their opinions of course but it seems like movements like this merely further back Bioware into a corner and most when backed into a corner attack.

I see two outcomes, Bioware attacks (stops listening to fans) or Bioware is overwhelmed and and gets put down like many of the other companies EA has taken in the past.

I didn't like the ending, I strongly disliked the star child appearance, lack of dynamic outcomes, and absence of closure. It seemed like a combination of bad writing and rushed content with low resources. I want a change, but to do that we have to work together positively and not be so divided like we are. Not just the fans divided, but Bioware and the fans used to be friends. Friends give can help each other out even when the other seems like they've forgotten (just means we have to remind them).

On a final note - I'm going to leave forums. I have a difficult time conversing with many of the people here without being trolled, yelled at, or watching people attack each other with closed minds over mundane topics. It disappoints me. So hopefully things can work out.


Best of Luck.

Denora, thank you for being civil in stating your opinion.

Here is our official response:

As consumers, we have the power of choosing what to buy and how to buy it.  Companies like EA and Bioware were made with the goal of making money, and for a long time Bioware was one of the most respected and cherished producers in the industry.

Sadly, this untarnished reputation did not remain this way.  Bioware has done a lot to shake the confidence of the consumer, and it is they who do damage to themselves, not us. 

You wouldn't blame someone for not buying a product notorious for issues, would you?  Of course not!

We are simply voting with our wallets.  We are exercising our right as consumers to buy what products we will.  If Bioware does not meet our standards, we won't buy their products.  Bioware has lied to us, they have thrown us a half-finished product, and we are here to stand as a group and voice our concern and speak with our money.

In this way, we hope to change the behavior of Bioware towards better practices.  It will be a win win:  Bioware will make better games, and the consumer will purchase a product they are pleased with.

Both sides leave happy.


It is for these reasons that I founded the movement you see here.  It is for this reason that 600 people have joined our cause within 4 days. 

We don't want to destroy Bioware.  We want to help them with some tough love.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Denora wrote...

On a final note - I'm going to leave forums. I have a difficult time conversing with many of the people here without being trolled, yelled at, or watching people attack each other with closed minds over mundane topics. It disappoints me. So hopefully things can work out.


Best of Luck.

If anyone who is a member of our group is doing that, you can always let an officer, cofounder, or the founder himself know.  We try to discourage that kind of thing.  I think the best thing we can do is kindly talk to the ones doing so and get them to understand why it's counter-productive.

We've all got spirit, just need to channel it correctly.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

DJBare wrote...

Hate to say it, but the text in your sig comes off as threatening, I'm sure that was not your intention, but to threaten someone is to hurt them.

I can see your point, the idea was to get the point across while being catchy and brief at the same time.  If you have an idea for how I can do so without coming off as such I'm all ears.

[Blade Blackheart]

Denora wrote...

Look, the only thing this movement can do is hurt/annoy Bioware. I think I'll use a quote from my dad to me when I was a lad and I yelled at the ice cream truck driver. "Do you really want to ****** of the person who hands you your treats?"

Silly yes, but nonetheless, I feel it's relevant. You want to help Bioware? You want better games? Then provide constructive resources for them. It seems like they don't listen but they do. But, respectfully, demanding change and taking money away from a company already short on time and money doesn't seem very smart in my opinion.

Maybe you won't read this, but I'd like to respond anyway. I think that the best way for us to help Bioware is asking EA to give BW the resources to change the endings. When I was talking about greed in my previous post, I meant certain people at EA. So, holding our money, to me, is the clear message aimed at EA, hoping they will provide these resources to BW.

[DJBare]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...
I can see your point, the idea was to get the point across while being catchy and brief at the same time.  If you have an idea for how I can do so without coming off as such I'm all ears.

My suggestion is have nothing(accept the banner) or something that conveys the importance of remaining civil as per my sig.
This is not really just about EA/Bioware, it's about the gaming industry as a whole and consumers.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

DJBare wrote...
My suggestion is have nothing(accept the banner) or something that conveys the importance of remaining civil as per my sig.
This is not really just about EA/Bioware, it's about the gaming industry as a whole and consumers.

Depends on the member, for you and me?  Yes, but not necessarily everyone.  Oh and I guess I sent the PM in vain, LOL

[xsdob]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Denora wrote...

On a final note - I'm going to leave forums. I have a difficult time conversing with many of the people here without being trolled, yelled at, or watching people attack each other with closed minds over mundane topics. It disappoints me. So hopefully things can work out.


Best of Luck.

If anyone who is a member of our group is doing that, you can always let an officer, cofounder, or the founder himself know.  We try to discourage that kind of thing.  I think the best thing we can do is kindly talk to the ones doing so and get them to understand why it's counter-productive.

We've all got spirit, just need to channel it correctly.

I'm an officer, I'd be happy to handle complaints whenever I'm on this post. P.M me and maybe I'll be able to help.

[DJBare]

Opsrbest wrote...
If thats true then good luck to ya. The endings and PR of ME3 issues and debates have been brought forth and crushed in previous arguements under other games. And without whole sale support from the gaming community well ...... gl to ya.

You missunderstood, many companies like CDProjektred(I just use this as a quick example) listen to the fan base, if EA/Bioware continue down their current path and succeed, then others will follow, they are a "business" first, their goal to make a profit, love of fans is secondary, so if a business model shows they can sell ammo clips for real dollars then by jiminy that's what they will do.

[Mastermadskills]

DJBare wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
If thats true then good luck to ya. The endings and PR of ME3 issues and debates have been brought forth and crushed in previous arguements under other games. And without whole sale support from the gaming community well ...... gl to ya.

You missunderstood, many companies like CDProjektred(I just use this as a quick example) listen to the fan base, if EA/Bioware continue down their current path and succeed, then others will follow, they are a "business" first, their goal to make a profit, love of fans is secondary, so if a business model shows they can sell ammo clips for real dollars then by jiminy that's what they will do.

DJBare.

You have provided numerous valuable insights and a myriad of excellent suggestions.

You are the type of mind we need.

I have send you messages but have received no response.  I would really like to make you an officer in this movement, and both the Co-founders agree with me.

What say you?

Modifié par Mastermadskills, 10 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Dia2blo]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Dia2blo wrote...

At the risk of this sounding like another argument, saying "vote with our wallets" is in no way any different to a threat. You are threatening to not buy any more products unless they change the ending.

Trying to come off as peaceful (probably due to the obvious success of the cupcake and charity scheme) doesn't change the fact that this whole "movement" is essentially an attempt to blackmail or threaten a company with the possiblity that members won't buy their products.

It's the same as a strike. Employees threaten to not work if their demands aren't met, and then if they're not, they don't work. It doesn't always mean they get what they want though.

I'm not trying to have a go, but at the end of the day, people are angry, so they're going to want to do such things. Trying to make it sound peaceful etc. doesn't really change what it is. To be fair though, if this whole thing means that Bioware/ EA does step up and change some of their ways (DLC, rushing games etc.- not that ME3 was rushed IMO.) then I don't mind it taking place. Just don't sugar coat it.

That's a rather cynical view of things.  I'm a pessimist myself, but you gotta apply reason to your pessimism.  People shouldn't just have to shut up and deal with everything EAware throws at them.   If they take an honest attempt at fighting back, only to be labelled as blackmailers, then just what else do you suggest?

I would suggest drawing attention to the issue via "protests" such as using charities or sending cupcakes, not threatening to not buy future products. That's all im saying.

I wasn't saying that you shouldn't be allowed to blackmail them though, I was just pointing out that it is blackmail. No sugar coating please.

[Mastermadskills]

We are two members away from reaching today's goal of 600 members.

Tomorrow's goal: 700-800

[DJBare]

Dia2blo wrote...
I wasn't saying that you shouldn't be allowed to blackmail them though, I was just pointing out that it is blackmail. No sugar coating please.

Yes, the meal I had at that last restaurant was bad, and I blackmailed the waiter telling him unless the quality is not improved I will not be eating there again.

[Mastermadskills]

DJBare wrote...

Dia2blo wrote...
I wasn't saying that you shouldn't be allowed to blackmail them though, I was just pointing out that it is blackmail. No sugar coating please.

Yes, the meal I had at that last restaurant was bad, and I blackmailed the waiter telling him unless the quality is not improved I will not be eating there again.

Are you seeing any of my messages?

Simple yes or no would be great.  I'm not out to bother you, DJBare.

Modifié par Mastermadskills, 10 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[xsdob]

If I may just introduce some thoughts into this post.

I think we need to begin using smart force and tactics instead of a blanket approach. For example, EA is the current holder of bioware, what we should be doing is putting pressure on them as well as bioware to help change the endings, if any of us are using a product that gives EA money exclusivly, than we should target that.

Another suggestion is selective boycotting, show them that their are things they can do to satisfy us. Fighting for bioware to change things is going to be a long process and a war of attrition, what we need to do is focus on punishing bioware for bad content while rewarding it for good content. If we see a dlc and it's something the fans want, tell them so, tell them that the dlc thought is noted and appreciated but not what this movement wants.

If we do this and continue enforcing ourselves in having a friendly rhetoric, than that's going to take us a lot further than just a blanket response and a confrontation attitude. As another note of importance, making sure those who carry the hold the wallet banner behave themselves here is also important. If we make sure our members act nicely, than others will not be so quick to attack us or to label us as being just another movement in the crowd, people like positivity, and if we hold to that than we will see a rise in support.

Modifié par xsdob, 10 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[Mastermadskills]

xsdob wrote...

If I may just introduce some thoughts into this post.

I think we need to begin using smart force and tactics instead of a blanket approach. For example, EA is the current holder of bioware, what we should be doing is putting pressure on them as well as bioware to help change the endings, if that is the goal of this movement.

Another suggestion is selective boycotting, show them that their are things they can do to satisfy us. Fighting for bioware to change things is going to be a long process and a war of attrition, what we need to do is focus on punishing bioware for bad content while rewarding it for good content. If we see a dlc and it's something the fans want, tell them so, tell them that the dlc thought is noted and appreciated but not what this movement wants.

If we do this and continue enforcing ourselves in having a friendly rhetoric, than that's going to take us a lot further than just a blanket response and a confrontation attitude. As another note of importance, making sure those who carry the hold the wallet banner behave themselves here is also important. If we make sure our members act nicely, than others will not be so quick to attack us or to label us as being just another movement in the crowd, people like positivity, and if we hold to that than we will see a rise in support.

I can say this with all emotion involved:

I am very glad to have made you an officer.  Your voice of reason is exemplary.

I am making a suggestions tab in the discussions section.  I would really like you to present these ideas in that tab.  Excellent work.