31 réponses à ce sujet

[Rhodric78]

Greetings folks!

I'm nearing the end of my first play through with my 2H Human Noble Warrior.  It's been an absolute blast!  I'm looking very eager to a second play through and am seriously considering a Mage/Blood Mage/Arcane Warrior combo.  I'm just not sure how this character is to be built.

Where should attribute points be distributed?  Once Arcane Warrior is chosen, do you then become a melee character or do you remain ranged?  Do you wear cloth, light or medium armor...or higher?  Staves or the Spellpower Sword.

Sorry for all the questions, but I love the magic in this game.  I'd just like to have an idea of how to plan this character out.

Thanks for the help!

Modifié par Rhodric78, 03 décembre 2009 - 08:08 .

[Mavkiel]

Honestly, its so hard to go wrong with that build its not even funny. If you do not want to be drinking lots of mana potions, then you want to invest some in willpower, if you dont mind drinking them, invest a little in willpower so your shimmering shield doesnt eat all your mana and turn off.



Imo, arcane warrior is going to get hit with some sort of nerf stick. Currently the spec has no disadvantages, while the other specializations have very real downsides. It can turn the game into a joke.

[Alphakiller]

when I built my arcane warrior... he was really a hodge-podge of different equipment.



as a plan, though, I always invested 2/1 magic/dex as a rule. the dex is the arcane warrior's friend, especially in the beginning of the game but still effective at end game.



equipment was lifegiver, blood dragon plate, libertarian's cowl, magus war boots, key to the city, spellweaver, fade wall, lifedrinker, and I forget the belt...



anyway, he was AW first, BM second. with lifegiver and blood plate, he had plenty of health to cast his bm spells, and I would always keep as many buffs active as possible, since shimmering shield doesn't deactivate when mana runs out. once I hit shimmering shield I never used a spell again from my mana pool... his capability to wreak havoc was quite insane, really.

[Rhodric78]

Hmmm, not sure I realized how powerful they are. It just sounded like a wicked fun combo hehe.

[Besetment]

he had plenty of health to cast his bm spells, and I would always keep as many buffs active as possible, since shimmering shield doesn't deactivate when mana runs out. once I hit shimmering shield I never used a spell again from my mana pool... his capability to wreak havoc was quite insane, really.

Shimmering Shield does deactivate when your mana runs out and it takes every other sustained ability with -mana penalty along with it such as Spell Might and Haste. I can confirm this on PC and Xbox.



Truth is that Arcane Warrior is a half way build. Its super defensive but doesn't have any aggro management like threaten and taunt and is therefore not as good as a Warrior for being the tank in 'tank and spank'.



If you try to max out your melee ability you still can never get attack rating as consistently high as a Warrior or a Rogue and you have no attack skills. If you try to mage it up more your fatigue in metal armours and sustained abilities makes all your spells cost more. Compared to a Warrior and Rogue, Arcane Warrior is boring to melee with and you trade that for limited use of spells (some of which are admittedly insane like Mana Clash and Blood Wound) but again this is the province of the straight mage who can do this and a whole lot more. Melee with a staff isn't half bad either - you do less than half the damage but you always hit and weapon sheathing is no longer a problem. If you pump spellpower you can still get enough defense and armour from the likes of arcane shield and rock armour to stand toe to toe.



Combat magic + massive armour + tonnes of sustained abilities = massive fatigue. I had over 112% fatigue for at least half the game so all your spells cost alot of life/mana which restricts how much you can cast. 2/1 magic/dex will lose about 1/3 to 1/2 of your life with a single casting of Blood Wound. Putting points in constitution is still a waste though since you cast 2 Spells and you need to switch off Blood Magic and health pot anyway.



It can be used for solo play because you can build very strong defense with it if you have to, it is versatile and the nature of combat magic is such that you don't have to spread your attribute points too thinly to get that versatility. But on the whole it is capable of doing lots of things average instead of doing a few things exceptionally well. For massive damage output I'd rather make a straight mage. For tanking I'd rather play a warrior. If I want to rip in melee I'd rather make a DW Rogue.



You decide if you are ok with a jack of all trades instead of a master of one.

[Javanaut]

Because the AW fills a versatile role, you are going to get as many different answers as there are people playing this game. When I first started playing an AW, I scoured these forums looking for some advice. Unfortunately, most posts were from people building overpowered, "I'm going to solo the game on nightmare." builds; or the "Cast all your spells and THEN run in and melee" builds. I built mine as a "run into the fray, hack a little, cast a little" class. It was very hard to plan it out from the beginning. I basically abused the respec mod at just about every level up until I found something that worked for me. That's the best advice I can give you. Use the respec mod, until you find something you like. Then once you've figured it out. Start a new character and build accordingly.

Also, something a lot of people don't mention in AW posts...

Just becuase you CAN wear massive armor, doesn't mean you should. Big armor is only important if you plan on tanking or "holding the line" for the squishies. Hell, my dual wield warrior doesn't wear massive armor. Let the tanks do the tanking and you really shouldn't be taking many hits. I only bring this up since fatigue is a major hurdle for AW's.

Modifié par Javanaut, 04 décembre 2009 - 04:41 .

[weism]

Ya, use the rescpecc mod to find the combination fits your imagination. Arcane warrior is so versatile to the point that if built differently, they can be considered completely different classes.

My preference is Arcane warrior/blood mage combo. This comb gives you superb defense while still be able to cast lots spells. Stat wise, by lvl 20, I have about 20 in wil, 60 in magic, 40 in con, roughly. The high con is there cause I wanna cast some spells when blood magic is active. I did go for the mana clash line, not for spell might, but for mana clash, this spell is insane.

I've found spell might more trouble than worth the added spellpower. simply because if you have both spellmight and shimmering shield up, Your mana gonna go down the drain faster than you can run. Totally not worth it for me. I usually always have shimmering shield, rock armor, arcane shield on all the time. I choose the heavy version of wades superior dragonscale set, very little fatigue, good protection and above all +2 mana regen, use spellweaver as sword and fade wall (+ stamina regen works for mana too) shield all the time, that's another +2 mana regen, I think there's a jewelry that has +mana regen too. So I get +6 mana regen from equipment, then with bard's song it can almost off set shimmering shields mana drain, with rejuvenate, it can offset completely.

I cast spell exclusively in blood magic mode, hence I needed close to 40 con.



one advice do not activate combat magic at beginning of fight. run in cast the spells, if any mob still standing then you mop up with combat magic.



I still consider myself mage first, fighter a side benefit.

[Amathalanos]

Arcane warrior is not a jack of all trades.

Arcane warrior is a genuine tank-mage build, and anyone who has memories of running around in NWN with reckless abandon cutting a swath of death and destruction wherever they went would be wise to run through with an arcane warrior/blood mage build.

You'll enjoy the trip!

However, I recommend if you decide to go this route, to do it on nightmare, and eventually start running solo once you get to a comfortable point.

As far as starting out, I took a mage playstyle (for the most part) until lvl 14.

I spec'd my char to be able to cast storm of the century and forcefield asap.

Then, I focused on the abilities I would need to run with melee combat.  At end game, when in melee mode, I keep up the following:  Rock Armor, Shimmering Shield, Miasma, Combat Magic, Arcane Shield, plus one of the weapon enchants.  Of those, Miasma will drop after combat, but I have never had a problem with any of the others gong off because of lack of power.  Spell Might, on the otherhand, will drop if out of power, and that does indeed get super annoying.  I only have blood magic up if I am going to cast.  Otherwise, it is not worth having it up just to have up as you get little benefit from health pots if you need them.

I currently do not wear heavy armor, and I still can keep a defense of 87 and an armor rating of 53 up full time.  I still have 80% fatigue, so if you feel the need to cast spells, blood magic comes in hand.  With gear that grants you health regen during combat, you will find you end most battles with full health if you don't cast spells. 

*The easiest way to think of blood magic is to think of it as a second mana pool (your health).  When you run out of the blue, you can switch to the red!  I hardly ever use blood magic, but it is there just in case I feel like fooling around.

On nightmare difficulty:

*This build can withstand a crushing prison while being zerged by mobs without a problem.
*You will resist most knockdowns, overwhelms, and other physical attacks.
*You will still get hit by cone of cold, but you have a chance to resist it
*You can survive a Storm of the Century of your own making without using forcefield.  With a mana pot or 2, you can even cast it with all of your enchants up!
*A combined dex of 30 is fine to run though the game.  This means you only have to invest a few points into dex after item increases and the fade increases.
*Once you get Wynne, you can add haste to her line, then park her at the beginning of an area with haste up, as you will get the benefit (assuming you go through everything else solo).  This will save you 4 spell slots you can spend elsewhere.  You can do the same for any of the weapon enchants.  (For all of you NWN monk - dragon disiple junkies out there, this was the final enchant that made it all click!)
*Invest in health regen in combat gear, and you probably won't ever end a fight (except bosses) with less than 90% health.
*Templars are a bane of this build, as they can strip all of your enchantments.  However, Storm of the Century is the bane of Templars everywhere, so don't be afraid to switch out strats.
*I used forcefield and storm of the century almost exclusively until I felt comfortable running in to melee entire groups.  Cone of cold made the early game much easier as well.  This will all depend on your level of comfort with the game, and how much of it you choose to solo.  There are, obviously, other ways to do things.

As far as stats:

Points in magic = melee damage, so the higher the better.  If you think you will want to dual wield, you will eventually want at least 30 in dex (with items) so you will need a few points in dex, as the high level daggers require 30 dex to use.  But your points should be dedicated to magic early on, and later magic and constitution.

If you absolutely must have more gold, then don't forget about the little cheat in Lothering.  You can turn in traps to Allison as much as you want for 50s + exp (the tavern vendor sells unlimited trap triggers).  It is possible to level to 25 in lothering in this way.  Just remember that once you complete one of the major plot points, lothering is destroyed.

Anyway, that's just some info on my experience on a play through with this build.  Hope it helps someone.

[weism]

If you own a xbox version. Then there is one thing you should know. Shimmering shield acts differently on xbox. on xbox shimmering shield actually turns off when your mana drops to 0, while pc version never drops. So it goes without saying that one of the version has a glitch, and it is pretty obvious from the description which version is glitched.



Most of people posting tips on this forum plays pc version. Therefore their strategies all assumes shimmering shield never drops when your mana is 0. An arcane warrior with shimmering shield up VS. one without, difference is night and day. If you play on xbox and follow pc users advice to the letter, don't be surprised to get the feeling that why your char is not as powerful as what others claims.



And my hunch is this glitch will most probably be fixed for PC in next patch.

[XOGHunter246]

ok i just though shimmering shield drained mana as i has xbox 360 version

[Besetment]

As far as starting out, I took a mage playstyle (for the most part) until lvl 14.

Aaaand thats over half the game right there.

Most of people posting tips on this forum plays pc version. Therefore their strategies all assumes shimmering shield never drops when your mana is 0. An arcane warrior with shimmering shield up VS. one without, difference is night and day. If you play on xbox and follow pc users advice to the letter, don't be surprised to get the feeling that why your char is not as powerful as what others claims.



And my hunch is this glitch will most probably be fixed for PC in next patch.

It won't get fixed in the next patch because it isn't broken. On PC Shimmering Shield collapses when you run out of mana and can no longer pay the mana penalty. I'm actually amazed that so many people claim otherwise because its not exactly hard to test. You just pile on all your sustainables, cast Shimmering Shield and then find a hostile mob that makes you draw your sword. Stand or run around and watch your mana degen down to zero. Now take note that Shimmering Shield ends along with any other sustained spell with a mana penalty (such as Cleansing Aura, Haste and Spell Might).

My hunch is that people pile on their buffs in town or in camp forgetting that outside of combat you and your entire party have massive health and mana regeneration.

Modifié par Besetment, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:57 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think the reason people think the two act differently is because combat happens much faster on the PC because of how the tactical control works.

On the 360, you can only move characters with the clock running (and thus with Shimmering Shield draining mana), but on the PC you can give point&click move orders to all the characters while paused, so in terms of in-game time, PC users see significantly shorter combat. As such, they don't run out of mana (and as you point out, can't run out of mana outside combat) but 360 users do, so the only people who ever see combat go long enough for the spell to run out are 360 (and presumably PS3) users.

[Rainen89]

Arcane warrior build miasma and any defense buff you can find arcane shield / rock armor etc. Equip two handed weapon. Stack everything. (And I mean everything into magic.) Turn on combat magic and roll face.

Also on the 360 you can pause it, the radial menu.

Modifié par Rainen89, 04 décembre 2009 - 11:00 .

[DarkSpiral]

I believe Sylvius is reffering to the fact that as soon as you issue and order, the radial menu closes. You have to select another character and then pause again (or pause and then select a character), and then again. And then again. And this is why I always inves tin Combat Tactics and spell out what I want my people to do THERE. The radial pause in the XBOX version is tedious.

[weism]

Besetment wrote...

It won't get fixed in the next patch because it isn't broken. On PC Shimmering Shield collapses when you run out of mana and can no longer pay the mana penalty. I'm actually amazed that so many people claim otherwise because its not exactly hard to test. You just pile on all your sustainables, cast Shimmering Shield and then find a hostile mob that makes you draw your sword. Stand or run around and watch your mana degen down to zero. Now take note that Shimmering Shield ends along with any other sustained spell with a mana penalty (such as Cleansing Aura, Haste and Spell Might).

My hunch is that people pile on their buffs in town or in camp forgetting that outside of combat you and your entire party have massive health and mana regeneration.

Hum.. I'm not sure which PC versions you are playing. I play normal store bought game, not download, and patched to the latest patch. I just tested the game, at the arl of denirim place where I have to fight sir cauthrien. I put up all my sustains, spell might and shimmering sheild and loads of other stuff. End result, only spellmight collapsed after my mana fall to zero. All other sustains including shimmering shield stayed up the whole time I fight sir Cauthrien. That was long after spell might collapse and my mana stayed at 0 the whole time.

[Javanaut]

Yeah, so like I said in my earlier post. You're going to get about a thousand different answers when it comes to how you should build an AW. The min/maxer's will tell you to just get sustainable spells, the hell with the group and just outlive everything. The mage players will tell you cast everything, then melee, or go BM and rule everything since you can outlive everything AND cast using health instead of mana. None of those answers satisfied me when I was trying make an AW. I wanted a versatile dps class. Not a "you will know me by the trail of dead bodies" class. I wanted something balanced and that fit into a group combat context.

Again, its an extremely versatile class, so only you know what type of character you want in the end. Use the respec mod to find what you want, then create a new character with your discovery in mind. Its really the only way to find what you're looking for. Trial and error.

Modifié par Javanaut, 05 décembre 2009 - 07:53 .

[Javanaut]

By the way, you may notice that people post about the "I'm kind of a big deal" accomplishment when they post AW builds. You can get the accomplishment just by hitting F5 before a fight and hitting F9 "if" you die. It certainly isn't proof of a superior build. I got that accomplishment with a dual wield warrior wearing only heavy armor.

[Matthew Young CT]

Shimmering shield is flagged as both dispellable and end_on_out_of_mana. if it isn't ending for you it is a bug.
combat magic has end_on_out_of_mana as well, so that should be dropping too.

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 05 décembre 2009 - 09:49 .

[Warskullx]

Get around 40ish magic, past 40 you can go a little easier on the magic. Magic gives poor returns on spells in general, you mostly want to for the +damage, but not to the exclusion of all other stats. A bit of willpower is nice, but don't dump a ton into it. Some dex is important it ups your attack and defense. If you completely ignore dex you'll have difficulty hitting things.



As for skills:

Rock armor, ignore the rest of the earth line

Miasma (may as well get mass paralyze)

Speccing 3 points in ice

4 points in fire or lightning (fire is probably the far better choice) is very useful

Go blood mage secondary, get blood wound ASAP



1 mage in your party should be specced fire and maintain fire weapons



For armor, focus on sets that give you high armor for low fatigue. Early on varathorn's armor (ironbark quest), the dancing shoes (camp vendor), and some +elemental damage gloves are a good combo.



Later on make yourself superior dragonskin or superior dragonscale armor. Dragonskill is lower armor but will put you at -20% fatigue, dragonscale will give you 21 armor for 3 fatigue. Both sets leave you a head slot for the libertarian's cowl.



AW is probably best in a 2 tank, 2 mage group or a 1 tank, 3 mage group. As for play style, you benefit immensely from leaving combat magic off until you throw your initial nukes. Then turning it on and going melee.

[Madanial]

I didnt use any elemental magics, but add pt into Glyph, healing, spirit and nature spells instead.



mostly i use spell to stop/slow down targets. and support other with healing spells. never running out of mana before.

[Insect]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

Shimmering shield is flagged as both dispellable and end_on_out_of_mana. if it isn't ending for you it is a bug.
combat magic has end_on_out_of_mana as well, so that should be dropping too.

As neither ended during combat in my terribly boring AW/BM playthrough, I assume it is a bug that makes the spec more powerful than intended; I most certainly did not have enough mana regen equipment to balance the drain out.

[Matthew Young CT]

Best I can tell base combat regen is 1, +0.5 for combat training 2, +1 for fade shroud, so you'd need +7.5 to stop shim shield dropping.



Anyone got any experimental info on regen in combat?

[weism]

I had only +3 mana regen from equipement when I fight sir cauthrien, spellweaver, fade wall and evon the great's mail. There is no way my mana regen can offset shimmering shield. And no matter how many times I test, result is always the same. only spellmight collapsed when mana reach 0 and stayed at 0.

[Colma]

WIth andruil's blessing belt and 1 or 2 other +mana regen items I never saw shimmering shield eat away my mana on the 360.



Glyph combo, blood wound and sleep will keep all the enemies stunned basically the whole duration of most encounters. Throw in spell might to help your melee skills and you can solo the game on nightmare like its a complete joke.

[Matthew Young CT]

can someone bored test how fast they lose mana with shimmering shield up in combat? take off +regen stuff first (including +stamina regen cos its the same thing). it SHOULD be ~7.5 a tick assuming you have the 2nd combat training



this honestly seems bugged with so many people saying stuff isnt dropping.