354 réponses à ce sujet

[Immz]

  I don't believe you comprehend what's happened.

When the script was leaked and everybody freaked out because of how horrible it was, you said "Wait for it to come out before you complain! Bioware knows what they're doing!"

When the demo was released and everybody complained about the horrible animations and graphics, you said "Wait for the actual game to come out! It's JUST a demo it's not supposed to look good!"

And LOOK at what followed:
 - The story comes to the worst conclusion in any video game series
 - The final game is riddled with horrible animations, sprites, and horrible textures.

We waited, and our worst nightmares came true. 

So now with DLC coming out that clearly states that it will not change a single thing about the absolutely disgusting ending, everybody is up in arms because Bioware is completely ignoring everything we have put forward to them.

While we're trying to force Bioware's hand in actually FIXING their own game that they slaughtered in front of our very eyes, you have the audacity to tell us to simply wait, trust, and (god forbid) have faith in Bioware that they'll actually construct something decent out of expanding the ending that, once again, took the entire Mass Effect trilogy and drove it into the ground, you insist that we sit idly by and let this atrocity happen.

No. Enough is enough. We've waited. We've "reserved" our judgment until release too many times to have any faith left in this company. So no, we're not just going to sit back, shut up, and let Bioware squeeze out another insulting abomination on our faces like they have several times.

[Erixxxx]

As I recall, they actually made changes to the ending based on feedback from that leaked script. The fanbase more or less got what it asked for.

[Immz]

Erixxxx wrote...

As I recall, they actually made changes to the ending based on feedback from that leaked script. The fanbase more or less got what it asked for.

We asked for our choices to matter. 

Not one person can say with a straight face that this is the ending that they wanted.

[JustinS1985]

Leaked script: you can read it and point out problems, there is a specific problem to complain about
Demo: you can play it and point out actual problems, there is specific problem to complain about

announced DLC: you're complaining on speculation that something might be bad or might not fix things the way you want, wait, see if it does what you want, if it's still not enough then continue complaining. Bioware has been reading the forums for a month, they know what people want, wait and see if they deliver before you decry any announcement they make.

[rpgfan321]

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

[Immz]

JustinS1985 wrote...

Leaked script: you can read it and point out problems, there is a specific problem to complain about
Demo: you can play it and point out actual problems, there is specific problem to complain about

announced DLC: you're complaining on speculation that something might be bad or might not fix things the way you want, wait, see if it does what you want, if it's still not enough then continue complaining. Bioware has been reading the forums for a month, they know what people want, wait and see if they deliver before you decry any announcement they make.

No. Staff members have commented that this will be the only ending DLC being produced, and will not in any way change the ending we all gaped at.

I'm done "waiting and seeing" everytime I did that I got slapped in the face with reality. Bioware knows what we want, but they're too caught up with 'artistic integrity' to actually act on it. 

[Immz]

rpgfan321 wrote...

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

Such a great philosophy!

Sure, let me just take my 100+ hours of time I put into this series, and simply put it somewhere else!

If only I could.

[Erixxxx]

Immz wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

As I recall, they actually made changes to the ending based on feedback from that leaked script. The fanbase more or less got what it asked for.

We asked for our choices to matter. 

Not one person can say with a straight face that this is the ending that they wanted.

Our choices did matter. Perhaps not in the way you wanted, but they did matter in what options you were presented with in the ending. If you did really bad, you won't even get a choice in the ending. You'll stop the Reapers but torch Earth in the process.

Yes, your choices being reflected by war assets is still your choices mattering. Is it optimal? Perhaps not. But they did not lie on that point.

[Xenogias]

JustinS1985 wrote...

Leaked script: you can read it and point out problems, there is a specific problem to complain about
Demo: you can play it and point out actual problems, there is specific problem to complain about

announced DLC: you're complaining on speculation that something might be bad or might not fix things the way you want, wait, see if it does what you want, if it's still not enough then continue complaining. Bioware has been reading the forums for a month, they know what people want, wait and see if they deliver before you decry any announcement they make.

I'm sorry you act as if Bioware has given people a reason to trust them since DA2. They havent so yea, people are going to speculate on how bad it will be.

[ShadowHawk141]

Immz wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

Such a great philosophy!

Sure, let me just take my 100+ hours of time I put into this series, and simply put it somewhere else!

If only I could.

I had my 100+ hours of fun with ME, now other games are going to entertain me.

[Immz]

 To quote another user

[quote: The angry One]
So basically BioWare intend to condescend to us, ignoring the promises made and the fact that the ending violates the themes of the rest of the game.
Exactly as I predicted, people are coming out and saying we should be happy, that we "won", that we'll never be satisfied. It's the worst of both worlds.
Let's go over some of the arguments made by ending supporters and BioWare.

"You got what you wanted and you're still complaining! Some people will never be happy!"
No. I haven't got what I wanted. I wanted endings that fit the tone and themes of the trilogy, that fit the character of Commander Shepard. Not an explanation or extention of the existing endings.
I know a lot of others feel the same way. If I go to a restaurant and order steak and they give me porridge, am I being unreasonable for pointing out that I did not, in fact, order porridge?

"The artistic vision of the Mass Effect team must be preserved!"
I actually agree. It's their vision and their game. But here's the thing. The ending is not their vision. The ending is the vision of one man, the lead writer, who wrote and implimented it without peer review.
The ending as it is completely destroys the artistic vision of the writing team. It contradicts it. It cheapens it. It makes it all irrelevant. Not only ME3, but the entire trilogy.
That's the real dangerous precident here. That we allow one person, who did not create the universe in the first place, to ultimately decide the fate of a team effort.

"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."
If your supposedly deep ending needs a handbook to go along with it, then it has failed.
If you admit your ending needs to be clarified, then it has failed.

"LOL did you seriously expect a new ending?"
Yes. Yes I did. And I will continue to do so, or I won't even bother with BioWare anymore.
The ending as it stands is not just bad. It's broken, and no amount of "clarification" will change that.
How will they clarify the Normandy for example? Add Shepard telling Joker to go? That solves nothing. Why? Because Shepard doesn't have the authority to do so, only Hackett does. That's just one problem out of DOZENS.

"Stop complaining. It's free!"
Many of us have stated we'd rather pay for a new ending, than keep the current one for free. This is a non-argument.

"Retakers have won, shut up already."
No, we haven't won. If this goes through then we have lost. Badly.
Some of you may gain satisfaction from this, and all I have to say to that is... I pity you. You would rather see fans driven off than have BioWare live up to it's potential greatness. You'd rather see BioWare slide into mediocrity than ever admit they're wrong. It is, simply, a shame.
We started this movement because we love and appreciate BioWare but it's becoming increasingly clear that BioWare doesn't appreciate itself.
[/quote]

[Erixxxx]

Immz wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

Such a great philosophy!

Sure, let me just take my 100+ hours of time I put into this series, and simply put it somewhere else!

If only I could.

Staying here isn't gonna help with that. Reading these forums will only fuel your rage at Bioware even further. You'll be sucked into a spiral of hate and anger. And what good comes of that?

If you didn't like it, walk away. Refrain from buying future Bioware products if you feel that is necessary, but staying here won't help you.

[Kris69]

And there's nothing you can do about it. BW is listening to us, but they won't give us what we want. Deal with it.

[Arkitekt]

Immz wrote...

I don't believe you comprehend what's happened.

If so, I doubt your ability to.

ZING

[Immz]

Erixxxx wrote...

Immz wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

As I recall, they actually made changes to the ending based on feedback from that leaked script. The fanbase more or less got what it asked for.

We asked for our choices to matter. 

Not one person can say with a straight face that this is the ending that they wanted.

Our choices did matter. Perhaps not in the way you wanted, but they did matter in what options you were presented with in the ending. If you did really bad, you won't even get a choice in the ending. You'll stop the Reapers but torch Earth in the process.

Yes, your choices being reflected by war assets is still your choices mattering. Is it optimal? Perhaps not. But they did not lie on that point.

You're not getting it. Why are you possibly defending them?

You seriously think that all of these 'heavy choices' that we made throughout the series should be handled as a tiny little number in the gigantic climactic finale? You're so bogged down with semantics. Technically, we weren't lied to, our choices add either +25, or +0 to the final battle. They merely took everything from the first two games, reduced it to dust, and said "BUT THEY STILL MATTER SEE THAT NUMBER? IT'S HIGHER NOW. LOOK JACK GAVE YOU 25 ASSETS!"

Our choices boiled down to one ending with slightly different hues.

If you think that's what we asked for, hoped for, invested all this time into the series for, and then think that Bioware's actually completely in the right for it, I apologize on your behalf. It must be horrible not being passionate about anything.

[devSin]

Erixxxx wrote...

As I recall, they actually made changes to the ending based on feedback from that leaked script. The fanbase more or less got what it asked for.

There was no change. It's virtually identical (actually worse, since the leak didn't contain a certain ship taking some magical flight to Fantasy Island), except with a smidge more detail.

[Immz]

Erixxxx wrote...

Immz wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

Such a great philosophy!

Sure, let me just take my 100+ hours of time I put into this series, and simply put it somewhere else!

If only I could.

Staying here isn't gonna help with that. Reading these forums will only fuel your rage at Bioware even further. You'll be sucked into a spiral of hate and anger. And what good comes of that?

If you didn't like it, walk away. Refrain from buying future Bioware products if you feel that is necessary, but staying here won't help you.

So, now you're suggesting that we all just give up? "You dislike the way the game went, you're mad at Bioware, then just GO AWAY ALREADY so we can love it all up!"

I'm appalled. Do you not care about this game?

Because if you did, and you wanted justice for the time you spent, the money you paid, the emotions you invested, you would voice your feelings right on the developers forums.

[Raygne]

Same garbage, different date.

Modifié par Raygne, 05 avril 2012 - 10:28 .

[Immz]

Kris69 wrote...

And there's nothing you can do about it. BW is listening to us, but they won't give us what we want. Deal with it.

Okay? It's nice when people roll over and say "sucks!"

[RiouHotaru]

OP, the thing is, we have no idea what's in the Extended Cut. Continuing to demand things from Bioware now won't do anyone any good because we don't know what we're getting in the first place.

[CELL55]

Immz wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

... Well there are other games out there, and other entertainment to appreciate.

Such a great philosophy!

Sure, let me just take my 100+ hours of time I put into this series, and simply put it somewhere else!

If only I could.

This.
Also I did'nt spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars just so I could come up with my own ending or imagine what would happen next. I could do that for free, and in a lot less time.

[SLana]

BW are like the Council. I think people who say "wait then judge" are like Joker, they hope BW actually plan to change the ending, they just don't tell us cuz... you know, Cerberus!

[daecath]

JustinS1985 wrote...

Leaked script: you can read it and point out problems, there is a specific problem to complain about
Demo: you can play it and point out actual problems, there is specific problem to complain about

announced DLC: you're complaining on speculation that something might be bad or might not fix things the way you want, wait, see if it does what you want, if it's still not enough then continue complaining. Bioware has been reading the forums for a month, they know what people want, wait and see if they deliver before you decry any announcement they make.

Announced DLC: "Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass
Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the
ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey
concludes.... With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good
balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while
maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in
the Mass Effect universe."
I know some will say that all they wanted were some plot holes fixed, or to have some questions clarified. Others, myself included, see the ending as a complete failure, both in terms of literary quality, and in terms of providing a conclusion to the series that stems logically from the rest of the story and our decisions. So since nothing in the ending is changing, it's just going to be longer, I can point to it and say there are specific problems.

Problem 1: the starbrat
Problem 2: the starbrat
Problem 3: the starbrat
Problem 4: the starbrat
Pr..well you get the idea.

Starbrat is a character that comes out of nowhere, with no foreshadowing (please don't bring up that one codex entry on that one planet that vaguely talks about beings of light, that's not foreshadowing, that's an easter egg), who completely takes over Shepard's role as the protaganist of the story. Every other choice that Shepard makes in the story is shown in the story to be Shepard's choice. Gameplay mechanics might limit your choice as a player, but in the terms of the story, Shepard has an infinite number of options that he/she has narrowed down to the handful presented to us the player. Starbrat takes that away. It is starbrat's decision to stop the reapers, not your actions. It is starbrat's decision on how to stop the reapers, and Shepard simply becomes a vessel to carry that decision out. If I lock you in some Jigsaw-style contraption that will either cut your arm off, cut your leg off, or break your back, based on your actions, would you claim that the resulting injury was your decision? You were forced to make a decision, but it wasn't yours. The same is true of starbrat. He, in his role as the story's new protagonist, forces Shepard, in the role of plot device, to make a choice that is inconsistant with everything Shepard, in his/her former role as protagonist, has done to that point.

And no amount of plot-patching, and no amount of detailed explanation, will change that fact.

There are plenty of other reasons to dislike the ending currently from a literary standpoint. http://www.writersdi...f-novel-endings Again, nothing in the statement says any of these will be addressed, and in fact specifically states they won't be. Ergo, we do have something concrete to base our judgements on.

[Kris69]

Immz wrote...

Kris69 wrote...

And there's nothing you can do about it. BW is listening to us, but they won't give us what we want. Deal with it.

Okay? It's nice when people roll over and say "sucks!"

BW has staded what they're going to do and I don't think there's much more we can do here.

[thedosbox]

Some people really need to get a life.