AJRimmsey wrote...
borg
terminator
vorolon v shadow
the base story has been used many times before.
we create a slave race of synthetics
they become self aware
they revolt
Modifié par SLana, 06 avril 2012 - 01:23 .
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Why?AJRimmsey wrote...
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
Yes, in most universes, Synthetics and Organics are unable to live together. Blade Runner, Armitage III, Borg from Star Trek, Not to mention the 3 Laws of Robotics from Isaac Asimov (fairly sure I spelled wrong). Members of one side will always try to kill the other side. As I wasn't able to get them both in the game. As we are in a non spoiler section of the thread, I won't go into specific ME3 detail. To put it like this: How can you fully trust something that can change from liking you to killing you because of corrupted data or a simple computer virus changing its mind? The race that built the Catalyst could have felt that in their experience, there can't be piece so created the catalyst. Now its been god knows how many years later, it's still following it's programming. It's programming would still after all this time say that synths and organics can't. It follows logically to me.
So a couple of simple questions - why create synthetics to wipe out organics to prevent them from being wiped out by synthetics? Why just not wipe out synthetics every xxx years for example? What's the point and purpose of organic life if it will be destroyed despite anything? What's the point in storing those lost civilizations in reaper form?
borg
terminator
vorolon v shadow
the base story has been used many times before.
we create a slave race of synthetics
they become self aware
they revolt
Modifié par AJRimmsey, 06 avril 2012 - 01:25 .
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
Yes, in most universes, Synthetics and Organics are unable to live together. Blade Runner, Armitage III, Borg from Star Trek, Not to mention the 3 Laws of Robotics from Isaac Asimov (fairly sure I spelled wrong). Members of one side will always try to kill the other side. As I wasn't able to get them both in the game. As we are in a non spoiler section of the thread, I won't go into specific ME3 detail. To put it like this: How can you fully trust something that can change from liking you to killing you because of corrupted data or a simple computer virus changing its mind? The race that built the Catalyst could have felt that in their experience, there can't be piece so created the catalyst. Now its been god knows how many years later, it's still following it's programming. It's programming would still after all this time say that synths and organics can't. It follows logically to me.
So a couple of simple questions - why create synthetics to wipe out organics to prevent them from being wiped out by synthetics? Why just not wipe out synthetics every xxx years for example? What's the point and purpose of organic life if it will be destroyed despite anything? What's the point in storing those lost civilizations in reaper form?
No it's not, why would a synthetic species care what you do. Do you care what an ant does? Of course not because it doesn't really affect you, Same thing with synthetics and organics, a synthetic being could live forver as all it needs is energy to keep going, that is it therefore time is meaningless to a synthetic as is air and other things organics need to live. Why would you as a synthetic even bother an organic they have nothing to give you except perhaps trouble or you are curious as to why organics to what they do. Same goes for organics why should we care what the synthetics are doing, like I previously stated they don't need air, food, sleep, or water. None of the reasons for a conflict exist between us except for because organics might fear synthetics and try killing them out of fear, if that is the case the synthetic has a better chance of survival to simply walk away find a corner of the universe for themselves and just stay there, and contemplate the universe.AJRimmsey wrote...
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Why?AJRimmsey wrote...
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
Yes, in most universes, Synthetics and Organics are unable to live together. Blade Runner, Armitage III, Borg from Star Trek, Not to mention the 3 Laws of Robotics from Isaac Asimov (fairly sure I spelled wrong). Members of one side will always try to kill the other side. As I wasn't able to get them both in the game. As we are in a non spoiler section of the thread, I won't go into specific ME3 detail. To put it like this: How can you fully trust something that can change from liking you to killing you because of corrupted data or a simple computer virus changing its mind? The race that built the Catalyst could have felt that in their experience, there can't be piece so created the catalyst. Now its been god knows how many years later, it's still following it's programming. It's programming would still after all this time say that synths and organics can't. It follows logically to me.
So a couple of simple questions - why create synthetics to wipe out organics to prevent them from being wiped out by synthetics? Why just not wipe out synthetics every xxx years for example? What's the point and purpose of organic life if it will be destroyed despite anything? What's the point in storing those lost civilizations in reaper form?
borg
terminator
vorolon v shadow
the base story has been used many times before.
we create a slave race of synthetics
they become self aware
they revolt
the same reason we should all crap our pants at the thought of aliens landing here and finding out what humans do to anything different from ourselves.
we are simply genocidal,and as a synthetic the only option for a genocidal species is indoctrination or obliteration
Rammastus wrote...
I admit that I will never come up with satisfactory answers and although I am hesitant to mess around with someone else's story, I can try. Could be that the reaper's/catalyst's creaters were in fact synthetics themselves. Why would synthetics willingly wipe themselves out every xxx years? I wouldn't say for sure that the reapers are "storing" lost civilizations as opposed to using the bodies for easy/resource cheap troops. As for organic life, you notice that not all organic life was destroyed, just those of certain level of technology or above. As organic life becomes more advanced, the chance of destroying entire galaxies or the entire universe becomes higher. To use an example, when two tribes go to war, whatever. When they become advanced enough that when they go to war the entire continent can be destroyed, then the other tribes that had nothing to do with either side comes in and puts them down. sometimes by helping one side or by putting both down. Those are just some of the things I can think of.
Modifié par SLana, 06 avril 2012 - 01:40 .
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
No it's not, why would a synthetic species care what you do. Do you care what an ant does? Of course not because it doesn't really affect you, Same thing with synthetics and organics, a synthetic being could live forver as all it needs is energy to keep going, that is it therefore time is meaningless to a synthetic as is air and other things organics need to live. Why would you as a synthetic even bother an organic they have nothing to give you except perhaps trouble or you are curious as to why organics to what they do. Same goes for organics why should we care what the synthetics are doing, like I previously stated they don't need air, food, sleep, or water. None of the reasons for a conflict exist between us except for because organics might fear synthetics and try killing them out of fear, if that is the case the synthetic has a better chance of survival to simply walk away find a corner of the universe for themselves and just stay there, and contemplate the universe.AJRimmsey wrote...
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Why?AJRimmsey wrote...
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
Yes, in most universes, Synthetics and Organics are unable to live together. Blade Runner, Armitage III, Borg from Star Trek, Not to mention the 3 Laws of Robotics from Isaac Asimov (fairly sure I spelled wrong). Members of one side will always try to kill the other side. As I wasn't able to get them both in the game. As we are in a non spoiler section of the thread, I won't go into specific ME3 detail. To put it like this: How can you fully trust something that can change from liking you to killing you because of corrupted data or a simple computer virus changing its mind? The race that built the Catalyst could have felt that in their experience, there can't be piece so created the catalyst. Now its been god knows how many years later, it's still following it's programming. It's programming would still after all this time say that synths and organics can't. It follows logically to me.
So a couple of simple questions - why create synthetics to wipe out organics to prevent them from being wiped out by synthetics? Why just not wipe out synthetics every xxx years for example? What's the point and purpose of organic life if it will be destroyed despite anything? What's the point in storing those lost civilizations in reaper form?
borg
terminator
vorolon v shadow
the base story has been used many times before.
we create a slave race of synthetics
they become self aware
they revolt
the same reason we should all crap our pants at the thought of aliens landing here and finding out what humans do to anything different from ourselves.
we are simply genocidal,and as a synthetic the only option for a genocidal species is indoctrination or obliteration
AJRimmsey wrote...
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
Guest_simfamUP_*
simfamSP wrote...
As far as I'm concerned, the script was great (other than a few flaws here and there) and the textures graphics were good, including the textures. The way some people talk about them, it's like you'd think the lines came from Resident Evil One and the textures from ME1.
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
I admit that I will never come up with satisfactory answers and although I am hesitant to mess around with someone else's story, I can try. Could be that the reaper's/catalyst's creaters were in fact synthetics themselves. Why would synthetics willingly wipe themselves out every xxx years? I wouldn't say for sure that the reapers are "storing" lost civilizations as opposed to using the bodies for easy/resource cheap troops. As for organic life, you notice that not all organic life was destroyed, just those of certain level of technology or above. As organic life becomes more advanced, the chance of destroying entire galaxies or the entire universe becomes higher. To use an example, when two tribes go to war, whatever. When they become advanced enough that when they go to war the entire continent can be destroyed, then the other tribes that had nothing to do with either side comes in and puts them down. sometimes by helping one side or by putting both down. Those are just some of the things I can think of.
First of all, thank you for constructive answer, sir or ma'am. But what I was asking regarding organic life - what is the purpose in general - you allowed to exist just to be wiped out later... What's the meaning of this existance, than? As Harbinger said, this is beyond my comprehension...
It could just be because up until a certain advancement level, organic life is no threat. If a race stayed under that level, then they would be left alone for the most part. A good example that another poster had mention is ants. Humans do not go to every place on Earth to kill ants, but when ants invade our space looking for food, we will wipe out that colony. As to why they don't just wipe us out and be done with it, I don't know. It could just be that the organics or synthetics that created the catalyst just believed that life itself is a good thing, just so long as it doesn't become too advanced. It could be something else entirely.
JustinS1985 wrote...
Leaked script: you can read it and point out problems, there is a specific problem to complain about
Demo: you can play it and point out actual problems, there is specific problem to complain about
announced DLC: you're complaining on speculation that something might be bad or might not fix things the way you want, wait, see if it does what you want, if it's still not enough then continue complaining. Bioware has been reading the forums for a month, they know what people want, wait and see if they deliver before you decry any announcement they make.
SLana wrote...
AJRimmsey wrote...
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
The funniest thing in this - you are trying to predict synthetics' behavior using organics logic
Modifié par Rammastus, 06 avril 2012 - 01:54 .
No but we only have a limited amount of space, a space faring synthetic species has the entire universe, why would it spend time and possible lives trying to kill us when the galaxy next door is more welcoming? I mean you have a choice of homes one home is filled with traps and death the other isn;t and besides the traps they are otherwise perfect replicas of one another, which one would you move into? Also whats with this belief that humans are a disease? and you call us crazy.AJRimmsey wrote...
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
No it's not, why would a synthetic species care what you do. Do you care what an ant does? Of course not because it doesn't really affect you, Same thing with synthetics and organics, a synthetic being could live forver as all it needs is energy to keep going, that is it therefore time is meaningless to a synthetic as is air and other things organics need to live. Why would you as a synthetic even bother an organic they have nothing to give you except perhaps trouble or you are curious as to why organics to what they do. Same goes for organics why should we care what the synthetics are doing, like I previously stated they don't need air, food, sleep, or water. None of the reasons for a conflict exist between us except for because organics might fear synthetics and try killing them out of fear, if that is the case the synthetic has a better chance of survival to simply walk away find a corner of the universe for themselves and just stay there, and contemplate the universe.AJRimmsey wrote...
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Why?AJRimmsey wrote...
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
Yes, in most universes, Synthetics and Organics are unable to live together. Blade Runner, Armitage III, Borg from Star Trek, Not to mention the 3 Laws of Robotics from Isaac Asimov (fairly sure I spelled wrong). Members of one side will always try to kill the other side. As I wasn't able to get them both in the game. As we are in a non spoiler section of the thread, I won't go into specific ME3 detail. To put it like this: How can you fully trust something that can change from liking you to killing you because of corrupted data or a simple computer virus changing its mind? The race that built the Catalyst could have felt that in their experience, there can't be piece so created the catalyst. Now its been god knows how many years later, it's still following it's programming. It's programming would still after all this time say that synths and organics can't. It follows logically to me.
So a couple of simple questions - why create synthetics to wipe out organics to prevent them from being wiped out by synthetics? Why just not wipe out synthetics every xxx years for example? What's the point and purpose of organic life if it will be destroyed despite anything? What's the point in storing those lost civilizations in reaper form?
borg
terminator
vorolon v shadow
the base story has been used many times before.
we create a slave race of synthetics
they become self aware
they revolt
the same reason we should all crap our pants at the thought of aliens landing here and finding out what humans do to anything different from ourselves.
we are simply genocidal,and as a synthetic the only option for a genocidal species is indoctrination or obliteration
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
Immz wrote...
To quote another userSo basically BioWare intend to condescend to us, ignoring the promises made and the fact that the ending violates the themes of the rest of the game.
Exactly as I predicted, people are coming out and saying we should be happy, that we "won", that we'll never be satisfied. It's the worst of both worlds.
Let's go over some of the arguments made by ending supporters and BioWare.
"You got what you wanted and you're still complaining! Some people will never be happy!"
No. I haven't got what I wanted. I wanted endings that fit the tone and themes of the trilogy, that fit the character of Commander Shepard. Not an explanation or extention of the existing endings.
I know a lot of others feel the same way. If I go to a restaurant and order steak and they give me porridge, am I being unreasonable for pointing out that I did not, in fact, order porridge?
"The artistic vision of the Mass Effect team must be preserved!"
I actually agree. It's their vision and their game. But here's the thing. The ending is not their vision. The ending is the vision of one man, the lead writer, who wrote and implimented it without peer review.
The ending as it is completely destroys the artistic vision of the writing team. It contradicts it. It cheapens it. It makes it all irrelevant. Not only ME3, but the entire trilogy.
That's the real dangerous precident here. That we allow one person, who did not create the universe in the first place, to ultimately decide the fate of a team effort.
"The ending is good. It just needs explanation and clarification."
If your supposedly deep ending needs a handbook to go along with it, then it has failed.
If you admit your ending needs to be clarified, then it has failed.
"LOL did you seriously expect a new ending?"
Yes. Yes I did. And I will continue to do so, or I won't even bother with BioWare anymore.
The ending as it stands is not just bad. It's broken, and no amount of "clarification" will change that.
How will they clarify the Normandy for example? Add Shepard telling Joker to go? That solves nothing. Why? Because Shepard doesn't have the authority to do so, only Hackett does. That's just one problem out of DOZENS.
"Stop complaining. It's free!"
Many of us have stated we'd rather pay for a new ending, than keep the current one for free. This is a non-argument.
"Retakers have won, shut up already."
No, we haven't won. If this goes through then we have lost. Badly.
Some of you may gain satisfaction from this, and all I have to say to that is... I pity you. You would rather see fans driven off than have BioWare live up to it's potential greatness. You'd rather see BioWare slide into mediocrity than ever admit they're wrong. It is, simply, a shame.
We started this movement because we love and appreciate BioWare but it's becoming increasingly clear that BioWare doesn't appreciate itself.
SLana wrote...
AJRimmsey wrote...
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
The funniest thing in this - you are trying to predict synthetics' behavior using organics logic
Modifié par Savber100, 06 avril 2012 - 02:00 .
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
No but we only have a limited amount of space, a space faring synthetic species has the entire universe, why would it spend time and possible lives trying to kill us when the galaxy next door is more welcoming? I mean you have a choice of homes one home is filled with traps and death the other isn;t and besides the traps they are otherwise perfect replicas of one another, which one would you move into? Also whats with this belief that humans are a disease? and you call us crazy.
Rammastus wrote...
SLana wrote...
AJRimmsey wrote...
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
The funniest thing in this - you are trying to predict synthetics' behavior using organics logic
That is funny, but seeing as we have any self aware synthetics to ask, We all kind of have to. Even you are using organic logic when asking me about why wouldn't synthetics just kill all life in the universe once and for all.
Though I wish we had more ending-lovers like you, not afraid to explain why and thinking about details.
Modifié par SLana, 06 avril 2012 - 02:06 .
The geth didn't know what to do, they were given freedom and what they did was return to doing what they were previously doing maintaining the quarian homeworld. Only later on did they come to the conclusion that they need to create a dyson sphere to house every single geth consciosness, this sphere would have been maintaed solely in the Ranoch system and the only reason they fought back was because the Quarians started that war. Had the quarians come to the geth in peace this fight would never have happened.Rammastus wrote...
Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
No but we only have a limited amount of space, a space faring synthetic species has the entire universe, why would it spend time and possible lives trying to kill us when the galaxy next door is more welcoming? I mean you have a choice of homes one home is filled with traps and death the other isn;t and besides the traps they are otherwise perfect replicas of one another, which one would you move into? Also whats with this belief that humans are a disease? and you call us crazy.
I don't agree with the humanity being a disease thing, but any synthetic spacefaring synthetic race also has a finite amount of space too. And from what I have seen in the game, every organic life has had multiple colonies and are therefore spreading out. Knowing the Quarians were out to get them, even after they lost the war, why didn't the Geth simply up and leave the Quarian homeworld and do like you suggest?
SLana wrote...
Rammastus wrote...
SLana wrote...
AJRimmsey wrote...
we are a disease that spreads everywhere.
any synthetic thats self aware would know it has to wipe us out sooner or later.
after all,do we just let diseases hide and leave them prosper ?
hell,we dont even allow our own species to live when we fear it in any way.
The funniest thing in this - you are trying to predict synthetics' behavior using organics logic
That is funny, but seeing as we have any self aware synthetics to ask, We all kind of have to. Even you are using organic logic when asking me about why wouldn't synthetics just kill all life in the universe once and for all.
Yep. That's the point - we can only guess. Sometimes it is good. But at this point - clarification by vids won't work for me. I don't believe in green space magic, and I don't believe in solving problems by using high voltage transformer, and I don't believe a word said by something that gladly lets you kill itself knowing that this will screw it's purposes. Hell, I don't even believe in three "problems-solved" buttons in general! And nothing will clarify for me why my LI smiles happily right after Shep's death
OozesAwesome wrote...
SLana wrote...
Immz wrote...
SLana wrote...
While I do not agree at some points with IT fans for example, those people made a lot of videos and writing to explain why they feel the way they feel about endings. A person who made the vid in my signature did great job explaining why he thinks endings are bad, without IT. But Ididn't see anything like that from people who liked endings. Just "why u no understand they are great" or "I like they are grim"...
Weird how that happens right? It makes you wonder whether these people even really like the ending.
They maybe like the ending, but I suppose they don't care much about details, logic and rules of science fiction.
Those that are comfortable with the ending are so because they understand the detail. Logic and rules of science fiction are thrown out the window when someone's mind is being torn apart.
The detail is this....the Reapers use indoctrination to bend an organics will to their own. The Reapers, in particular Harbinger, have been trying unsuccessfully to indoctrinate Shepard. Who they realized is one of the most significant threats to their existance.
This is a story arc that needed to be addressed. How come Shepard has been able to fight indoctrination up to this point when so many other organics, even Saren, have succumbed to it? Had this not been addressed would have been a major plot hole in itself.
How Bioware dealt with this story arc is absolutely brilliant. Since you control the actions of Shepard your mind had to make a choice. You. Two choices that you can make have you accepting that the Reapers should still exist. One has you making the choice that the Reapers should be destroyed, which is what has been Shepards goal ever since he/she uncovered the Reaper threat.
The ending is a mind game. The ending is playing with the players mind. You don't sit passively by watching whether Shepard gets indoctrinated or not. YOU make that choice. The ending is astonishingly brilliant.
I watched 30 seconds of your video to conclude that the person that made the video doesn't understand the ending either. Those that hate the ending beleive that what is playing out is happening in reality. What is playing out is Shepards mind being torn apart by Harbinger. Logic and reason no longer applies. Have your dreams ever made sense when you woke up from them?
You have one right choice, and it is the most important decision of the series thus far. Your Shepard either takes a breath in the rubble of London or not. This ending clarification DLC will likely explain what happens next.
Immz you wanted me to enlighten? Well there you go.
I'm done.
I should go.
Rammastus wrote...
I wish there were more anti ending people like you who respond to disagreement in a rational way. The whiners are making your whole stance look bad. Personally, I think this whole thing is overblown. I did not like the Twilight series and personally think the writing of it was subpar. I could even find 60k + people to agree with me, but I won't start a movement for her to change her books. I respect those that do like it and I abstain from the books and movies whenever possible. If this ending has made a person not like the series, then I think they should post a reasonable comment as to why they didnt like it and then go find a game they do like. Just my two cents. It has been a genuine pleasure conversing with you Slana
Modifié par SLana, 06 avril 2012 - 02:38 .
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