96 réponses à ce sujet

[Father Alvito]

The Phaeston gets hated on because it's trash. Playing a Turian? Take a Hornet. Vastly better gun for exploiting the Turian stability bonus.

Playing a Human Soldier? Take a Mattock. I can't seem to squeeze maximum performance out of it, but others do just fine.

Caster? Carnifex. Infiltrator? Which sniper rifle is best is a whole separate argument, but they're all (well, maybe not the Incisor) better than the Phaeston.

Long story short, if you take a Phaeston you're doing it wrong.

[Star fury]

Always kick people with Phaeston. Garbage weapon with no damage + it's as rare as N7 weapons. Have Carnifex VIII but Phaeston II.

Modifié par Star fury, 06 avril 2012 - 12:27 .

[Volmax]

brian_breed wrote...

I killed more assault troopers and centurions than anyone else that round. And killing hardened targets isn't the point of a controller. Controllers take out the trash.

What VII weapon can't do well on Silver?

People think it sucks because it's basically useless on Gold.

You can faceroll through silver just meleeing things as a Krogan or vanguard. You don't even need a gun at all, so saying that this gun can beat silver means nothing.

Any decent adept or sentinel can one-shot trash enemies with throw anyway.

Modifié par Volmax, 06 avril 2012 - 12:37 .

[Ediblestarfish]

Well, if you can't handle the spamming of a Mattock, just use a Vindicator with a recoil mod.  Hilariously enough, even if all you get are body shots with the Vindicator, it's about the same DPS as a Mattock being clicked at it's limit, and significantly higher than a Phaeston, even if it feels slow from the three round burst cooldown.

The only advantage of the Phaeston and automatic weapons are: using certain ammo mods that proc on a lower %, and being able to use lazy headshots by opening fire first, then moving the cursor all over the screen to try and track a target's movement.  If you don't headshot with automatic weapons, you are heavily penalized with their sub-par damage.

Unfortunately most people don't grasp this and just want to spray at the center of mass and hope it goes down fast.  However the game rewards headshots with such a large damage bonus, it's worth your time to at least take a few seconds to try to and get them.

[MartialArtsSurfer]

1) phaestron is ok on Silver,...any weapon is

2) phestron users say it's fine with headshots --ALL WEAPONS do FINE WITH HEADSHOTS...

headshots from ALL WEAPONS have a 250% damage multiplier.. that's like saying a pen is a great weapon as long as you stab someone in the head with it...

well, ya, anything is great when you're headshotting.. that's not proof at all because you can do better with a headshot from Carnifex, Phalanx, or sniper or any other weapon too on headshots

3) people who say they score hi with it on Gold are sentinels, adepts, etc because MOST OF THEIR POINTS COME FROM THEIR POWERS.. they only use it to mop up (when they're better off using a carnifex or phalanx)

4) 50 pt Armor Damage Reduction from EACH bullet on Gold .. that means each bullet from a Phaestron does the mininum 5 pts of damage per bullet

Armored enemies have 9,000 to 21,000 armor hit points on Gold... see if you can do the math on how long it takes to kill it, LOL

ie,Phaestron's 5 pts of damage can't even supplement your powers damage to help take those mobs down faster

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 06 avril 2012 - 12:46 .

[MartialArtsSurfer]

Volmax wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

I killed more assault troopers and centurions than anyone else that round. And killing hardened targets isn't the point of a controller. Controllers take out the trash.

What VII weapon can't do well on Silver?

People think it sucks because it's basically useless on Gold.

You can faceroll through silver just meleeing things as a Krogan or vanguard. You don't even need a gun at all, so saying that this gun can beat silver means nothing.

Any decent adept or sentinel can one-shot trash enemies with throw anyway.

Exactly.. don't even need a gun on Silver if you spam powers

[cruc1al]

Phaeston is my favorite assault rifle, not only because it makes a manly assault rifle sound, but it is also pretty damn effective. Played a couple silver matches with lvl 20 turian soldier carrying nothing but a Phaeston IV (+140% recharge). First game was 100K points vs Cerberus, second was >80K vs Reapers, in both cases I was easily the highest scorer. I've honestly never had this easy time on Silver, perhaps with the sole exception of Salarian Engineer and its overpowered Decoy.

Here's why it's an effective gun. It's like a little accurate Revenant. It can sustain fire for practically an infinite period of time due to modded high clip capacity, plentiful ammo reserves and very fast reload time. This means constant damage output - your enemy never gets breathing space. Versus pretty much any single target, you're denying it any effective form of attack, while dealing nice damage. In these silver games, my constant bullet barrage made even large enemies like brutes and atlases seemingly unable to act as they were confused about what the hell to do about all those bullets. I'm serious. The brute will just slowly crawl towards you while you land headshot after headshot, and then it will cower behind its shoulder plate, then it will crawl some more. The Atlas will just stand there - if you're the pilot, what are you going to aim at if your whole cockpit window is covered in a shower of sparks? Smaller enemies will either stand there and accept death, stagger due to your bullets while getting owned, or dodge (in vain).

In addition to the above, constant damage output allows you to instantly switch from one target to the next within the same clip and the same adrenaline rush / marksman. At best I was able to kill five or so Cannibals within a matter of seconds thanks to this - much better than with any slow hard hitting weapon; I could imagine Saber getting similar results if you hit all headshots, but it's not nearly as forgiving.

Last but not least, it's effective crowd control. Any humanoid size target you shoot at, even if for a short time, will usually respond in some way which usually involves a pause in its attacks - keep the pressure on constantly and you give your teammates a lot easier time than you would by sitting behind cover and only sticking your nose out for a single burst of heavier damage every five seconds.

I find this full-auto damage much more effective than scarce heavy hitting shots due to its suppressive, crowd controlling qualities. Now I'm just looking forward to leveling Phaeston to X and combining with AP ammo and AR bonus.

Modifié par cruc1al, 06 avril 2012 - 01:05 .

[Volmax]

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

Volmax wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

I killed more assault troopers and centurions than anyone else that round. And killing hardened targets isn't the point of a controller. Controllers take out the trash.

What VII weapon can't do well on Silver?

People think it sucks because it's basically useless on Gold.

You can faceroll through silver just meleeing things as a Krogan or vanguard. You don't even need a gun at all, so saying that this gun can beat silver means nothing.

Any decent adept or sentinel can one-shot trash enemies with throw anyway.

Exactly.. don't even need a gun on Silver if you spam powers

Most full auto weapons suck on Gold, but I have found that the Revenant and Hurricane can be decent with the Turian soldier's stability buff and Marksman rate of fire increase.

Hurricane with turian soldier marksman kills a Prime's armor in something like 7 seconds at close range, if you have big enough clips to not need to reload more than once.

[Escocido]

Got Phaeston IX, it's cool, but I like rev. III better

[GGW KillerTiger]

jacob92883 wrote...

It's a solid weapon, but I prefer my collector Squirt Gun. Though if I didn't have it I would use my phaeston.

Fixed that for you.  No need to thank me.

[jahaa]

I have the phaeston VIII and works well against the geth in silver while spamming area overload.
Of course gold is another thing.

[brian_breed]

realgundam wrote...
Also, wearing a side arm with Phaeston is a bad idea, for the reason above. You are just grimming your cool down. Most AR are already very rounded so you only need to bring 1 weapon. This is probably the reason why you got kicked. 

My Phalanx 9 adds .07 seconds to my global cooldown. And it has more armor penetration than my Phaeston. It would be stupid not to pack it.

[brian_breed]

Star fury wrote...

Always kick people with Phaeston. Garbage weapon with no damage + it's as rare as N7 weapons. Have Carnifex VIII but Phaeston II.

Phaeston drops a lot from Veteran packs. I maxed out my basic weapons with recruit packs. Once I had all of the main guns at X, I started buying Veterans. Now I'm working on Spectre packs since all but two of the weapons I used are topped. It's rare in "rare" packs, common in "uncommon" packs.

[Mystical_Gaming]

I used that gun a lot in single player and loved it. I have not yet tried it in MP but I bet it's just as fun to use.

[Beeno4Life]

Dragoni89 wrote...

Its worse than the avenger. I take a whole clip to kill one cannibal. I have N7 576, I know when it sucks.
Geth rifle is much better.

Not sure if serious or trolling...

[ttchip]

cruc1al wrote...

Phaeston is my favorite assault rifle, not only because it makes a manly assault rifle sound, but it is also pretty damn effective. Played a couple silver matches...

Stopped reading there. Do that on Gold and you'll have my approval.

Edit: I don't want to sound like a jerk, I'd just really like to see someone do well with that gun on Gold.

Modifié par ttchip, 06 avril 2012 - 10:40 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Star fury wrote...

Always kick people with Phaeston.

You're what people hate about multiplayer gaming. Congratulations.

[kingsims]

Phaeston X + DMG Mod V + AP Mod V + Disruptor Ammo II/III = 191% cooldown + Tech burst guaranteed every time you shoot a "disrupted target" (This happens very often with II/III disruptor variant)

[Tai MT]

I like that all the haters of the Phaeston say "It sucks because of low damage and high weight". Um.... Okay... It's a silver weapon. You get it after the Blue ones. Yeah, gold and black ones are better. That's how the game WORKS. You UPGRADE to better stuff as you go along. That doesn't mean the gun "sucks". It just means it occupies a different place in the game than "top spot". We're sorry that it's no Saber or Widow. It's a full-auto gun.

By video game nature, Full-auto guns will have poor damage unless they are massively heavy (this applies to the real world as well, it seems). Semi-auto guns will do more damage because it takes more time between shots.

Advantage to a Phaeston. You can simply hold the crosshairs over the targets face and hold the trigger down. If you're great at getting headshots (while having to line up each individual shot over and over and over again) on a semi-auto... Then the Phaeston can work for you as long as you've got a steady hand to KEEP the crosshair where it should be instead of readjusting it for each shot.

I've played with players on Silver who use Widows and Revenants and Mattocks and all the other "good" weapons... But I seem to have the "Headshot 20" medal before any of them do. Not just that, most of them never obtain the Headshot 5 medal.

I routinely get first or second place with this weapon just because of the sheer amount of damage it has the ability to do. I played a game on Silver in which my entire team was on the other side of the map being utterly stupid while I was fighting a Banshee and two Brutes. I never used a single item on them and just spammed Warp when I got a chance and then the Phaeston. I got all three kills, never went down, and took out all three enemies in about 25 seconds or so. I couldn't do that with the Avenger X I'd been using.

Now, the Phaeston is NOT the best weapon. I can't claim that, nobody can. But, it's dangerous in the hands of players with some skill at the game. Players who know how to maneuver, players who know how to aim, and players who can get by without power spam. It won't work in every build... But what weapon will? And it will be worse than a fair few weapons.

I hear a lot of people profess about "skill", but I doubt any of them have tried Gold with an Avenger X. Get your whole team to use the starting equipment on Gold. I bet you do just fine. You probably spend a bit more time in the match and learn some new skills... But I'd wager that Gold is beatable using nothing but the STANDARD equipment.

It just goes much faster if you use Gold weaponry or Black weaponry.

But hey, if all you're doing is farming credits by playing Gold and you're looking to knock off some extra time... Just get to Wave 10, complete the objective, then have everyone die. You keep the cash and get to start over without wasting a crapload of time.

Or am I the only one who ever thought to do such a thing?

[Bawtzki]

Been rocking Turian Soldier with Phaeston X (with Barrel V and AP mod V) last few days and it's honestly the most fun I've had in mp since I've started playing. It murders things on silver. Guardians die in less than half a second when you turn on Marksman and unload on them. Any stationary target, shields or not, melts under fire if Marksman is active. It's an insanely effective combination to hold chokepoints. Had no problems at all soloing Atlases in reasonable amount of time either. After this huge success in silver I took the class to gold, only this time I used AR amp III with combination of various lvl III ammo powers, and it worked great (only tried vs cerberus, I suppose it wouldn't be as hot vs reapers due to high % of targets with armor). Kill speed was about the same as on silver without mods.

[Mazandus]

Tai MT wrote...

I like that all the haters of the Phaeston say "It sucks because of low damage and high weight". Um.... Okay... It's a silver weapon. You get it after the Blue ones. Yeah, gold and black ones are better. That's how the game WORKS. You UPGRADE to better stuff as you go along. That doesn't mean the gun "sucks". It just means it occupies a different place in the game than "top spot". We're sorry that it's no Saber or Widow. It's a full-auto gun.?...

So is the Geth Pulse Rifle the best assault rifle in the game? I mean, its gold, so following your progression it must be better than the Vindicator and Mattock right? 


The Phaeston is not a good weapon. Most of the guns in this game are not good weapons. (On Gold with enhanced enemy armor and damage mitigation) Couple the paucity of performance with massive headshot bonus damage and you have the current ME3 Meta Game, massively rewarding accurate single shot weapons over all else, otherwise known as [istols and sniper rifles. With the occasional Geth Plasma Shottie or Claymore guys running around. Its the way it is, because that's what works, with the least headaches. (on gold.)

Yes you can beat gold with any weapon if you are skilled enough. With a Locust, with a Phaeston, with a Shuriken. 2 crazy Russians beat Gold Reapers as a duo of level 1 Krogan's. That doesn't make those terrible weapons into good weapons, or even acceptable weapons. Not only does the sheer number of ****ty guns dilute the fun of "winning" at the RNG store when most of the weapons are crap, it dilutes the meta game as well. You start seeing the same weapons in every, single, match.

[Tai MT]

Mazandus wrote...

Tai MT wrote...

I like that all the haters of the Phaeston say "It sucks because of low damage and high weight". Um.... Okay... It's a silver weapon. You get it after the Blue ones. Yeah, gold and black ones are better. That's how the game WORKS. You UPGRADE to better stuff as you go along. That doesn't mean the gun "sucks". It just means it occupies a different place in the game than "top spot". We're sorry that it's no Saber or Widow. It's a full-auto gun.?...

So is the Geth Pulse Rifle the best assault rifle in the game? I mean, its gold, so following your progression it must be better than the Vindicator and Mattock right? 


The Phaeston is not a good weapon. Most of the guns in this game are not good weapons. (On Gold with enhanced enemy armor and damage mitigation) Couple the paucity of performance with massive headshot bonus damage and you have the current ME3 Meta Game, massively rewarding accurate single shot weapons over all else, otherwise known as [istols and sniper rifles. With the occasional Geth Plasma Shottie or Claymore guys running around. Its the way it is, because that's what works, with the least headaches. (on gold.)

Yes you can beat gold with any weapon if you are skilled enough. With a Locust, with a Phaeston, with a Shuriken. 2 crazy Russians beat Gold Reapers as a duo of level 1 Krogan's. That doesn't make those terrible weapons into good weapons, or even acceptable weapons. Not only does the sheer number of ****ty guns dilute the fun of "winning" at the RNG store when most of the weapons are crap, it dilutes the meta game as well. You start seeing the same weapons in every, single, match.

I don't believe I said any Gold weapon was "the best".  But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.  The Geth Pulse Rifle is likely better than the Phaeston in some areas and likely has it's own "shining place".  In fact, you could argue that Widows are outright crap weapons based on the fact that if a group of three or four enemies sneak up on you from behind, you get murder-raped in under five seconds because of the sheer RELOAD TIME and FIRING RATE of such a weapon.  You're actually trying to put forth a premise that I think some weapon is arbitrarily better than others of a lower class.  Probably depends on its use I would imagine.  Comparing a full-auto gun to a semi-auto gun is kind of silly.  It's like apples to oranges, but congrats on trying anyway.  There's a reason a REAL ARMY has both FULL AUTO guns and SEMI AUTO guns.  Because there are situations were FULL AUTO is more appropriate and SEMI AUTO is more appropriate.  Full Auto tends to be more for "crowd control" and "suppression fire" than anything.  Semi Auto is for the longer distance targets that you intend to dispatch one at a time.  Against a mob, Semi-auto is pretty worthless.  Against longer ranged and heavily armored enemies Full-auto is pretty worthless.  I don't have any gold weaponry yet, so I can't say for sure if the Pulse Rifle is better than the Phaeston or not.  It just might be.  But it's not going to be able to compete with a semi-auto simply because it's not really the same beast.  Only an idiot would make the comparison that they are "equal" when they are not.  In a REAL military, the guns like the Vindicator and Mattock are more "rifles" than "assault rifles".  That is, they occupy the place between an Assault Rifle and a Sniper Rifle.  Mass Effect doesn't differentiate this at all, so they're all "assault rifles".   Want a game that actually points this out subtlely?  Go play some Borderlands.  If it's a full auto assault rifle it's labelled "Machine Gun".  If it's a semi-auto or single-shot assault rifle it's just labelled "rifle".  Yeah, they fit under the same category, but the game makes the distinction.  Bioware...  does not.

My point is that EVERY WEAPON has its place.  Every single one.  They all have advantages and disadvantages and we have mods to help mitigate weaknesses in guns or to further bolster strengths.  We even have separate classes and races to help in this process.

The Phaeston is never going to be a "one shot one kill" type gun.  In fact, most of the "high tiered" weapons aren't even that, not even on BRONZE.  I've had Black Widow players only able to get kills by stealing them from other players because their shots just don't do enough damage.  And by the time they finish off a single target solo with their gun, anyone with a full-auto assault rifle has killed THREE enemies.

You get into the whole "seeing the same weapon all over the place" because of people like you, to be honest.  "It sucks, don't use it.  And tell everyone else they're not PRO unless they never use it and use what THE COMMUNITY thinks is the best".  That's how you get into matches with everyone carrying Sabers all the time or everyone carrying Carniflex's and no real variety in weapon load-outs or character specs.  People afraid to try something new because of the Peer Pressure involved.

And honestly, I say screw the community on such things.  If you think it sucks, oh well.  Unless I am outright having a difficult time doing damage, I don't write off any kind of weapon.  And even then, I exhaust every option with it before ditching it.  I currently use a Phalanx LVL 1 on my "caster" classes.  It's stats look pretty terrible, but it works out pretty well for me.  It fires fast enough to be incredibly useful and is accurate enough that headshots are a great viability.  Is it the best pistol in the game?  Nope.  Is it complete crap on Gold?  Probably.  Doesn't stop it from being USEFUL for me.

Likewise your arguments don't stop the Phaeston from being INCREDIBLY useful on Bronze/Silver either.  Lots of Phaeston users in this topic have said that they almost always get first or second place using said weapon.  Surely that counts for something, does it not?  Or are we only subject to your own opinions and not any kind of proof?  "Well, it does only slightly more than an Avenger.  Other guns do more" blah blah blah.  No crap.  If it did the same damage as other guns, it wouldn't be unique.  Hence why we have STATS on our weapons.  You know, to DIFFERENTIATE them from each other.

You don't actually step into the whole "everyone uses the same gun" until you start seeing high level players who rushed the Gold/Black weapons.  Once a player gets the Widow, they use nothing but, even though it's only ideal in a specific situation.  Same with the pistols or shotguns.  "It's the best, so I will use it!  Anyone else is wrong!"  That's the mentality of the people who say any gun sucks.  I'm sorry, but a player using one of the "crappy weapons" is obviously going to be MORE skilled than those with "more efficient" weapons.  Why?  They actually had to take the time to THINK about how to make their weapon work.  They had to take the time to LEARN some tactics to stay alive or do nice chunks of damage while using it.

Any good military teaches you how to be good with ANY weapon, because you might just need to USE any weapon.  It makes you a skilled killer and makes you a pretty good tactician and strategist.  If we just handed everyone in the military rocket launchers with thousands of rockets at their disposal because such a thing provides "the least headache" or because it's "the most damage efficient", then it'd be rather silly.  Wouldn't it?  Those soldiers wouldn't know how to use anything BUT that weapon.  Anything they did in terms of tactics would REVOLVE around that weapon.

So, you go ahead and say our Phaeston sucks.  Say it's useless and can never be useful in any given situation.  Tell us it's crap.  We're getting to be more skilled players than you are.  Sit in your ivory tower and pass judgement while eating your $200 steaks.  We're learning how to survive with anything.  We're learning how to think while you chain yourself to a single way of thinking.

I think some players would even be happy to know that I do NOT defend my snipers and in fact try to get enemies to spawn behind them.  You guys like to be "elitist" and say you're doing all the work?  Fine, do all the work.  Let's see how long it takes before you get downed and you realize that you only EXCELL because there are other players damaging enemies for you or keeping you safe from harm.  A single sniper can be useful.  Several just makes me let 'em die and I can then clean up the entire wave myself.  And yes, I've done that.  Yes, on silver.  It involved running around the map and winning by attrition.  You never see a Sniper able to do that.

Gee, I wonder why.

[HEEGZ]

I've spent the past two days playing beating Gold with Human Engineer and Phaeston X. It's just as good as with my Turian Sentinel. Constantly cleaning up kills and staggering with Phaeston... Also, I started burst firing it exactly like I use the vindicator and I am now getting head shot kills with it at medium and long range. It's an excellent balance between the Avenger and Revenant, and perfect for use between powers on Engineers and (Turian) Sentinels.

Modifié par HEEGZ, 06 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Maria Caliban]

Tai MT wrote...

I like that all the haters of the Phaeston say "It sucks because of low damage and high weight". Um.... Okay... It's a silver weapon. You get it after the Blue ones. Yeah, gold and black ones are better.

But it's not as good as other silver weapons.

I'm not comparing it to gold or black. I'm comparing it to the Phalanx, Mattock, and Vindicator. Heck, I'm comparing it to the Avenger.

[kingsims]

Acutally its better than the geth pulse rifle and the arc pistol which are both gold rare guns. Avenger X vs Phaeston X with DMG V and AP V is about even. I like it on my turian sentinel.