118 réponses à ce sujet

[Viglin]

David Gaider wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
Yeah but in dungeons and Dragon god does exist.

I would argue that. In D&D you have powerful beings who claim that they are gods, but they are neither omniscient nor omnipotent -- and even the most powerful of them can be killed. I see no evidence even in D&D lore that they created the world. Ao perhaps comes closest, but even he is an enigmatic figure that sadly gets waved aside since he doesn't "give" his followers anything.

Nobody ever seems to ask who created all these powerful beings. Where did the planes come from? Why do people go to a particular plane when they die -- who decided that? So ultimately these questions get ignored in favor of the pantheons of mortal, fallible beings that clerics worship for the free gift of divine power. Which is convenient, but side-steps the real issues of faith and creation altogether. In short, there is no God in D&D.

The real question is...will we in DAO have a "God" who gives us buffs:D

[Ulicus]

That depends entirely on whether or not Morrigan's child is romanceable in the sequel.

[Recidiva]

RunCDFirst wrote...

I rather saw the ashes as a sort of placebo that only works because everyone expects it to work. I have a hard time believing that 'some poison' placed Eamon into unhealable comatosis.

Placebo effect only works on people who are conscious and able to process that placebo as a positive thing. 

Arl Eamon medically and magically doesn't qualify as consenting or conscious.

And there haven't been many control group studies on "returning from the fade" vis a vis a control group fed...say...dirt from the courtyard in Redcliffe.

Don't think I didn't think about it!

[Kuravid]

Vanatos wrote...

No he has it completely right, as i have read the Quran, Hadith and various other material on Islam.

The only thing one might dispute is Islam's view of Christianity, which at times views them as simply misguided, other times as traitors and insulters to God (being considering them as corrupting the original pure religion given by God).

You could also argue the status of Dhimmis and whether or not it led to guaranteed integration and toleration, but yes I was mostly referring to the Islamic view on Christianity (which could easily lead to Islamic views on Jews and other non-Muslims).

I, too, have read the Quran and various sections of the Hadith along with a lot of literature on the subject of Islam. 

[Orogun01]

Recidiva wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

I rather saw the ashes as a sort of placebo that only works because everyone expects it to work. I have a hard time believing that 'some poison' placed Eamon into unhealable comatosis.

Placebo effect only works on people who are conscious and able to process that placebo as a positive thing. 

Arl Eamon medically and magically doesn't qualify as consenting or conscious.

And there haven't been many control group studies on "returning from the fade" vis a vis a control group fed...say...dirt from the courtyard in Redcliffe.

Don't think I didn't think about it!

If you take Oghren with you on the ashes quest he will comment on the high level of lyrium concentration on the ashes. There is no placebo effect there the Ashes actually have healing properties and just like lyrium is used to send someone the Fade the reverse should be possible.

[Recidiva]

Orogun01 wrote...

If you take Oghren with you on the ashes quest he will comment on the high level of lyrium concentration on the ashes. There is no placebo effect there the Ashes actually have healing properties and just like lyrium is used to send someone the Fade the reverse should be possible.

It's a bit ironic that Oghren, as a drunken dwarf, would have insight into either theology or magic.  Sure he wasn't just messing with you?

But regardless of the shakiness of the source, I sorta agree.  From my take on it, Andraste was a woman.  She impressed people while she was alive and she impressed people after becoming a martyr.  But on the whole, the bit about "Well, the Maker let her die because it was the only way He could be with her..."

Sounds like a Maker with a crisis moment to me.  Or just a human woman that might have been all sorts of good and magical scrumptiousness, but lacked the super powers it might have taken to...say...prevent being burned at the stake.

Modifié par Recidiva, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:00 .

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

I rather saw the ashes as a sort of placebo that only works because everyone expects it to work. I have a hard time believing that 'some poison' placed Eamon into unhealable comatosis.

Placebo effect only works on people who are conscious and able to process that placebo as a positive thing. 

Arl Eamon medically and magically doesn't qualify as consenting or conscious.

And there haven't been many control group studies on "returning from the fade" vis a vis a control group fed...say...dirt from the courtyard in Redcliffe.

Don't think I didn't think about it!

Placebo effect may have been the wrong phrase for him to use.  However, the notion of a collective unconcious having a real effect is not unheard of in fantasy.  Several D&D settings as well as Discworld use it as an important basis of their cosmology.

The Fade suggest this is true of Thedas as well, being a location collectively visited by unconcious individuals, with residents representing aspects of the psyche, as well as the source of magic power.  Though I do believe it goes against stated intentions for the setting.

The phenomenon is known as Clap Your Hands If You Believe.

Modifié par Taleroth, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[Taleroth]

RunCDFirst wrote...

I rather saw the ashes as a sort of placebo that only works because everyone expects it to work. I have a hard time believing that 'some poison' placed Eamon into unhealable comatosis.

The poison didn't.  The poison was going to simply kill him.  It was the demon that put him into a coma as part of Conner's desire to save his father.

[blackwolf1981]

Recidiva wrote...

Orogun01 wrote...

If you take Oghren with you on the ashes quest he will comment on the high level of lyrium concentration on the ashes. There is no placebo effect there the Ashes actually have healing properties and just like lyrium is used to send someone the Fade the reverse should be possible.

It's a bit ironic that Oghren, as a drunken dwarf, would have insight into either theology or magic.  Sure he wasn't just messing with you?

But regardless of the shakiness of the source, I sorta agree.  From my take on it, Andraste was a woman.  She impressed people while she was alive and she impressed people after becoming a martyr.  But on the whole, the bit about "Well, the Maker let her die because it was the only way He could be with her..."

Sounds like a Maker with a crisis moment to me.  Or just a human woman that might have been all sorts of good and magical scrumptiousness, but lacked the super powers it might have taken to...say...prevent being burned at the stake.

Oghren is a dwarf, and as such can sense lyrium.

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

 Placebo effect may have been the wrong phrase for him to use.  However, the notion of a collective unconcious having a real effect is not unheard of in fantasy.  Several D&D settings as well as Discworld use it as an important basis of their cosmology.

The Fade suggest this is true of Thedas as well, being a location collectively visited by unconcious individuals, with residents representing aspects of the psyche, as well as the source of magic power.  Though I do believe it goes against stated intentions for the setting.

The phenomenon is known as <a href="" _fcksavedurl="" ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve?? Main pmwiki.php pmwiki tvtropes.org http: _fcksavedurl=">Clap Your Hands If You Believe.

Yes, this is true as a separate approach.  Collective expectation magic.  That's possible also.  In which case all the concentrated Tinkerbell clapping in the world would make the ashes mighty potent.

But if that's the case, I'm sure women's bras would explode off when enough men and women are concentrating on cleavage in the marketplace.  I'm sure there's more thought that's capable of accomplishing that than there is ethereal and devoted thought that actually manages the purity level it would require to imbue Andraste's ashes with perfect grace, whereas bra and explosive mechanics are common knowledge.

Exploding or see-through bras seem more likely as an event in a world with that mechanic active.

So in practice it's hard to justify "wanting something hard enough" to equate to making it happen, if it doesn't work on anything else.  I think people of faith are completely capable of wanting something to happen in theory, and then doing everything they can in mundane reality to make it appear to be so, which then inspires more faith.

[Recidiva]

blackwolf1981 wrote...

Oghren is a dwarf, and as such can sense lyrium.

And how did he get into the Fade?  I had to drag him out.  And I was a dwarf too!   Maybe he's not really a dwarf!  Maybe I wasn't either...oooooh.

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

So in practice it's hard to justify "wanting something hard enough" to equate to making it happen, if it doesn't work on anything else.

Except for the part that it does work within several settings unequivocally.  To the point where your exploding bra hypothesis merely only serves as a study in what factors constrain it.  Such as the differentiation between belief and desire.

Nobody expects bras to explode.  But we do, however, have an unusual surplus of attractive women with large bosoms nontheless, who just so happen to follow us around.

Modifié par Taleroth, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:24 .

[blackwolf1981]

Recidiva wrote...

blackwolf1981 wrote...

Oghren is a dwarf, and as such can sense lyrium.

And how did he get into the Fade?  I had to drag him out.  And I was a dwarf too!   Maybe he's not really a dwarf!  Maybe I wasn't either...oooooh.

I believe, and I could be wrong, that it imerely says that the dwarves to not go into the fade when they dream.....not that they cannot go there at all. It could be the magic of the sloth demon supersedes racial tendencies.

Or it could be because Bioware says so. Naah Naaah.

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

Except for the part that it does work within several settings unequivocally.  To the point where your exploding bra hypothesis merely only serves as a study in what factors constrain it.  Such as the differentiation between belief and desire.

Nobody expects bras to explode.  But we do, however, have an unusual surplus of attractive women with large bosoms nontheless, who just so happen to follow us around.

Where is it unequivocal? 

Nobody expects bras to explode?  I'm either hanging out with all the wrong people or you are.

Do you REALLY want a world where bras are impervious to outside influence?  Think carefully.  By your own argument you could be condemning the species by not clapping for bra explosion.

[Recidiva]

blackwolf1981 wrote...

I believe, and I could be wrong, that it imerely says that the dwarves to not go into the fade when they dream.....not that they cannot go there at all. It could be the magic of the sloth demon supersedes racial tendencies.

Or it could be because Bioware says so. Naah Naaah.

The "nanny nanny boo boo" argument.  I am lost...curse you Bioware!

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...

It's a bit ironic that Oghren, as a drunken dwarf, would have insight into either theology or magic.  Sure he wasn't just messing with you?

But regardless of the shakiness of the source, I sorta agree.  From my take on it, Andraste was a woman.  She impressed people while she was alive and she impressed people after becoming a martyr.  But on the whole, the bit about "Well, the Maker let her die because it was the only way He could be with her..."

Sounds like a Maker with a crisis moment to me.  Or just a human woman that might have been all sorts of good and magical scrumptiousness, but lacked the super powers it might have taken to...say...prevent being burned at the stake.

I think the dwarves just have a lot of information about lyrium in general. Like, it's not a big deal for them to know about how it works/what it can do because they've been around it their whole lives.

[blackwolf1981]

Recidiva wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Except for the part that it does work within several settings unequivocally.  To the point where your exploding bra hypothesis merely only serves as a study in what factors constrain it.  Such as the differentiation between belief and desire.

Nobody expects bras to explode.  But we do, however, have an unusual surplus of attractive women with large bosoms nontheless, who just so happen to follow us around.

Where is it unequivocal? 

Nobody expects bras to explode?  I'm either hanging out with all the wrong people or you are.

Do you REALLY want a world where bras are impervious to outside influence?  Think carefully.  By your own argument you could be condemning the species by not clapping for bra explosion.

this may be a touch off topic.....but unless I've been doing something very, very,wrong(and the existence of my son makes this unlikely)....it isn't the bra that guards the part responsible for making babies.

[Taleroth]

Recidiva wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Except for the part that it does work within several settings unequivocally.  To the point where your exploding bra hypothesis merely only serves as a study in what factors constrain it.  Such as the differentiation between belief and desire.

Nobody expects bras to explode.  But we do, however, have an unusual surplus of attractive women with large bosoms nontheless, who just so happen to follow us around.

Where is it unequivocal?

Discworld is the clearest example.  It's been a major plot point.  Small Gods is a great read.

Nobody expects bras to explode?  I'm either hanging out with all the wrong people or you are.

Do you REALLY want a world where bras are impervious to outside influence?  Think carefully.  By your own argument you could be condemning the species by not clapping for bra explosion.

I'm not the one who denies exploding bras!  I'm just excusing them.

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

I think the dwarves just have a lot of information about lyrium in general. Like, it's not a big deal for them to know about how it works/what it can do because they've been around it their whole lives.

But this is OGHREN.  He isn't the most stable of company, nor does he have excellent judgment skills.  My point is that if he can't tell the difference between a human being and a dog, he might be mistaken on other fronts.

[Recidiva]

blackwolf1981 wrote...

this may be a touch off topic.....but unless I've been doing something very, very,wrong(and the existence of my son makes this unlikely)....it isn't the bra that guards the part responsible for making babies.

Well, if you're going to be intelligent and reasonable, I'm sure I don't know what to do with that.

Take under advisement that my "Exploding Bra" theory is certainly under the subject of "winging it" and possibly does not represent the underpinnings (or underwire) of the workings of an alternate reality.

Of alternately "By Andraste's flaming sword, I know where babies come from!"

Take your pick.

[Recidiva]

Taleroth wrote...

Discworld is the clearest example.  It's been a major plot point.  Small Gods is a great read.

I'm not the one who denies exploding bras!  I'm just excusing them.

Well, maybe the Temple was built by Bloody Stupid Johnson. 

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...

Kuravid wrote...

I think the dwarves just have a lot of information about lyrium in general. Like, it's not a big deal for them to know about how it works/what it can do because they've been around it their whole lives.

But this is OGHREN.  He isn't the most stable of company, nor does he have excellent judgment skills.  My point is that if he can't tell the difference between a human being and a dog, he might be mistaken on other fronts.

I was under the impression that he was one of those "functioning" alcoholics.

[The Angry One]

Recidiva wrote...

Kuravid wrote...

I think the dwarves just have a lot of information about lyrium in general. Like, it's not a big deal for them to know about how it works/what it can do because they've been around it their whole lives.

But this is OGHREN.  He isn't the most stable of company, nor does he have excellent judgment skills.  My point is that if he can't tell the difference between a human being and a dog, he might be mistaken on other fronts.

Why would he be wrong about this?
There does seem to be a high concentration of magic in the temple anyway what with the guardian, the puzzles, the jedi force ghosts "spirits", etc.
Not to mention the probability that Andraste was a powerful mage... and probably high as a kite on Lyrium dust.

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

I was under the impression that he was one of those "functioning" alcoholics.

Maybe by Ferelden standards.  Not by mine.  

[blackwolf1981]

Recidiva wrote...

blackwolf1981 wrote...

this may be a touch off topic.....but unless I've been doing something very, very,wrong(and the existence of my son makes this unlikely)....it isn't the bra that guards the part responsible for making babies.

Well, if you're going to be intelligent and reasonable, I'm sure I don't know what to do with that.

Take under advisement that my "Exploding Bra" theory is certainly under the subject of "winging it" and possibly does not represent the underpinnings (or underwire) of the workings of an alternate reality.

Of alternately "By Andraste's flaming sword, I know where babies come from!"

Take your pick.

Color me thrilled that I managed to pass off my insecurity as reasonable intelligence.

I was frantically searching the Internet to make sure I hadn't screwed up things in a major way. Kind of like going to a party and finding out afterwards your zipper was down the whole time.

Would make the Krogan Avatar kind of poetic, actually.......

Anyways, back on topic.