169 réponses à ce sujet

[Nchopper]

Shurikenmanta honestly I was failing miserably to put across my voice in my tired stupor last night and I logged on today ready to give it another crack, but you've essentially mirrored my opinion in clear enough terms.

[Alex_SM]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Tovanus wrote...

I never did a user-review myself. However, I don't see any problem with the people who 0/5'd it. or 0/10 or whatever they do on various sites. If you do an ending so bad that it poisons people's view of the entire series, you're just lucky people can't go into negative numbers for reviews. 

Plot based games can get a lot of fan committment. There's a lot of upside to that. It also makes your ending much more important, and there's a huge downside to that if you fail hard at it. As long as people honestly believe the ending ruined the game for them, then the scores are warranted.

Well, I guess we differ in how we judge games, then.  I loved the vast majority of the game, so I feel that that work should not go unrecognized.  I mean just like movies with really bad plots or whatever can still be praised on their actors, or effects, or whatever.  In this case, despite the atrocity of the ending, I'd give the game points for fun gunplay, good voice acting, some excellent music, and good writing (for the most part, at least <_<).

I mean, I totally understand where you, and everyone else that 0/5'd it (or would 0/5 it) is coming from, but I just don't operate that way.

Can you praise a game/movie that leaves you wanting to throw it out of the windows, burn it and burn every other game of its saga and every product related? 

[TheGreenAlloy]

I'm dissatisifed because they try to make it look like we didn't "undersrtand" their artistic ending.

[Getorex]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I personally think people just want to be angry because they want SOMETHING ANYTHING to be upset or complain about really.

It IS the internet, before the ending furor, it was the holster animation, etc etc.

If someone can find something to complain about, they will

Yes, because people just LOVE being upset an angry.  They LOVE. IT.  LOVE IT.  

People are still upset and angry because they put a lot of time and effort into the entire series.  They are upset an angry because they took the game "seriously" - they became emotionally invested in it.  That is a GOOD thing as it is a sign of a GOOD GAME.  The ending basically told them that they wasted all that time, effort, and emotion.  All the way at the very ass end of the game we are given the high hard one.  

Then there's Bioware's inability to admit they f*cked the pooch.  They did.  Square Enix developers APOLOGIZED for their errors in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and they proved they listened by releasing a DLC that demonstrated they listened and that they "got it".  They are adults and capable of this but Bioware isn't.  Hmmmm.

New fallout 3 ending is an IMPLICIT apology.  They recognized they screwed the pooch there and they corrected it.  Bioware?  Nah. 

[PrimalGecko]

Getorex - you get it. I you.

[LordDeimos4]

Just read Getorex' post. I have nothing to add to that BioWare just don't get it.

[arisian]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Um........admit you guys went overboard with ... disingenuous fundraisers to charities

How can a charity fundraiser be disingenuous?  I mean, you donated money to a charity!  In what possible world can you call that a bad thing?

[Cainne Chapel]

Getorex wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I personally think people just want to be angry because they want SOMETHING ANYTHING to be upset or complain about really.

It IS the internet, before the ending furor, it was the holster animation, etc etc.

If someone can find something to complain about, they will

Yes, because people just LOVE being upset an angry.  They LOVE. IT.  LOVE IT.  

People are still upset and angry because they put a lot of time and effort into the entire series.  They are upset an angry because they took the game "seriously" - they became emotionally invested in it.  That is a GOOD thing as it is a sign of a GOOD GAME.  The ending basically told them that they wasted all that time, effort, and emotion.  All the way at the very ass end of the game we are given the high hard one.  

Then there's Bioware's inability to admit they f*cked the pooch.  They did.  Square Enix developers APOLOGIZED for their errors in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and they proved they listened by releasing a DLC that demonstrated they listened and that they "got it".  They are adults and capable of this but Bioware isn't.  Hmmmm.

New fallout 3 ending is an IMPLICIT apology.  They recognized they screwed the pooch there and they corrected it.  Bioware?  Nah. 

I work with the public on a daily basis... you'd be amazed at how many people in life are just angry to be angry.  So they must like it.  They dont bother to change it.  So yes I agree people love to be A-holes in life.  Maybe not everyone mind you, but the ones who like to raise the most ruckus do.

as for the Bethesda/Bioware argument... as they haven't released the "new stuff" yet, how can we know whether or not it isn't an implicit apology?  People raged on FO3 UNTIL they released the new ending and then all the anger suddenly just evaporated? No people still had a bone to pick ehre and there.

As for an apology, I really dont see why they need to apologize for the ending, I didn't mind it as much as others as I've stated, I just wanted the necessary closure for a finale.  That's my main gripe. and even if they didn't change the ending it in no way invalidates the predating hours i spent on ME1 2 and 3 itself.

Would I have been happy about the ending? Not really, but I still enjoyed myself very much up until that point.  Its not like I played through ME1 and 2 and 3 JUST to get it over with.  I played them because i actively enjoyed each part of the trilogy and games.  

Was the ending bad? Yeah it was it could of been so much more, But I'm not going to judge something i've spent hundreds of hours playing and replaying and enjoying on a scant few minutes at the tail end.  It doesn't magically erase the fun i've had up until that point.  Why would it?

If a TV show ends, it doesn't magically devalue the fun i had watching it up until that point, even if the ending is something I didn't neccessarily like (and I have quite a few TV shows I loved end abruptly due to cancellation or otherwise). Still enjoyed them and will continue to do so.

[sean10mm]

People are mad because every statement Bioware makes seems to have an implied insult. Whoever is writing their statements can't seem to help slipping in passive-aggressive sniping at the customer base, and it's making people mad.

I mean, Bioware found a way to make an announcement of giving away free DLC to fix the ending actually come across as offensive, which is kind of amazing actually. They could have literally said, "We understand that a lot of people are angry about the ending. So we're spending the next 3 months making a free ending DLC" and left it at that, and I bet people would be a lot happier about the situation than they are now.  Instead they had to act defensive about the existing ending and imply their customers needed it explained to them in detail because they were too stupid to "get it."

Modifié par sean10mm, 06 avril 2012 - 02:28 .

[Sebbe1337o]

I want to hear them admit that they were wrong and that they lied to us.

[sean10mm]

The truth is that making ending DLC is admitting fault even if they won't admit it, and everybody knows it, so Bioware petulantly insisting the ending was good all along is just ridiculous. If the ending was good they wouldn't be dropping everything to "clarify" things (talk about corporate double-speak!), now would they? Of course not, because nobody abandons plans to make money-making DLC to instead spend money on something you have to give away by choice.

Denying the obvious just makes Bioware look awful and exacerbates the problem. It creates a credibility gap where one need not exist.

Modifié par sean10mm, 06 avril 2012 - 02:35 .

[Malathus]

Another thing that is always glossed over in their "artistic integrity" argument is that the precident for fixing a botched ending was set several years ago by Bethesda, and the Fallout 3 Ending was significantly better than the ME3 ending disgrace.

[Mad-Max90]

This has nothing to do with hindsight, this has everything to do with what they said was going to be in the game, but mysteriously was left out. I want them to acknowledge what was said pre-release anyhow drastically different the game was in comparison

[Arsenic Touch]

sean10mm wrote...

The truth is that making ending DLC is admitting fault even if they won't admit it, and everybody knows it, so Bioware petulantly insisting the ending was good all along is just ridiculous. If the ending was good they wouldn't be dropping everything to "clarify" things (talk about corporate double-speak!), now would they? Of course not, because nobody abandons plans to make money-making DLC to instead spend money on something you have to give away by choice.

Denying the obvious just makes Bioware look awful and exacerbates the problem. It creates a credibility gap where one need not exist.

We have a winner.

[Mad-Max90]

I would also like to add that if they were honestly happy with how they ended their game, what will they do next? If all their new games are coming with a deus ex style ending then why would I bother with any of their future titles?

[Malathus]

Max the question that stuck in my mind when I got to the end of ME3 is....If this is the ending...why would I buy any DLC if I know the whole game will still end with the sound of "Millions of souls crying out at once and being suddenly extinquished."

I do agree however, after a Meh DA2 and a ME3 that isnt worth a second replay I will certainly be waiting for any future content to be fully vetted and will be checking to see if its done by the writers responsible for the Neo just dies in the Matrix ....er I mean Sheppard just dies in the Citadel ending.

[JudgeOverdose]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

honestly even new endings people will STILL find something to **** about.

Personally I dont MIND the current endings, MY main hangup was the lack of closure with crew and allies.

I mean outside of that what more can they do to make the ending more personalized OTHER than reference your crew and ally relationships in an ending epilogue or cinematic?

Hell I'd of been happy if they gave us a DA:O style ending with paragraphs for each companion and/or ally really. THATS what I want for closure, tell me what happened to MY personal crew and relationships.

Other than that I dont knwo what else people expect? I mean eitherway they'll find some complain with a new ending or not.

They promised us that our choices would impact the ending, when in reality, our choices did not matter. The ending is the same decision for everyone; a decision that is utterly disconnected from everything we did prior to that point, and explaining it further does not live up to the promises we were made. I can't speak for anyone else, but fixing (not "clarifying") this issue is the only thing that will save them in my eyes, because I do not enjoy being lied to about a product before I buy it, and then having the lie defended with a shield of "artistic integrity".

You might not agree with my sentiment, but you can't claim that it is difficult to understand; lying about your product is fraud, and most consumers don't care for that.

Again, I can only speak for myself on this issue.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

I know my reason - it's because it seems the "happy ending" will be exclusive to people who use an online connection with their game, and those who don't will be left out because it's dependent on DLC and multiplayer. If BioWare announced that the Extended Cut would be available on later copies of the ME3 disc, along with a point fix for war assets or extra missions to make the EMS total possible, then I would gladly buy it. Assuming the Extended Cut is satisfactory, of course. I'll be watching it on youtube.

[thunderhawk862002]

Malathus wrote...

Another thing that is always glossed over in their "artistic integrity" argument is that the precident for fixing a botched ending was set several years ago by Bethesda, and the Fallout 3 Ending was significantly better than the ME3 ending disgrace.

And the best thing was is he said that they had made a mistake upfront.  I love his interview when he talked about the possibility of not changing the ending just because they wrote it that way.  And then he said no, we made a mistake so let's fix it.