58 réponses à ce sujet

[Crackseed]

My biggest gripe is actually that rogues have too much talent bloat.

4 trees in the rogue archetype alone, plus the spec of your choice AND weaponry of choice.

I really think Lockpicking needs to be skill based and open to anyone - it's too irksome being limited to rogues AND expecting the rogues, who already have to spend more talent points, to pick that up and juggle everything else. Good example is a rogue-archer.

4 for master stealth. 4 for top end lockpicking. 3 for lethality. 12 for archery tree. 4-5 at least for specs. Oi xD

[Bibdy]

Taleroth wrote...

KWMMA wrote...

I agree about stam regen. The nature of rogues is that they are light, flexible, athletic movers. I'd like to see that reflected with more energy compensation.

It actually is reflected.  Via their lighter armor and less fatigue.

Not nearly enough, though, from the feel of it. The mechanic's there, its just not penalizing heavy armour enough, or benefitting light armour enough, whichever way you want to think of it. At least from my perspective.

Regen rates are the primary culprit. Stamina in DA:O feels no different to mana. A finite resource that depletes rapidly fast, and you can probably only get maybe 4 specials off before your character runs 'OOS'. So, when you've got heavy armour McGee getting off 3 attacks, and light armour Rogue McGraw getting off 4 attacks, then they're both sitting there completely exhausted...where's the benefit here? 1 extra attack before combat ends and you have to sit there regenning stamina? Mages have less trouble with their resource because they can just pop potions left and right on separate, short cooldowns. What exactly do Warriors and Rogues do when they run 'OOS'?

Its why a lot of Rogue/Warrior builds you see are all about maximising auto-attack damage, not special attack damage. Special attacks just seem really weak and really costly. Take something like Mighty Blow. You stop auto-attacking, you take this great big swing with your 2-hander, and BOOM GUARANTEED CRITICAL HIT. Oh wait, it only did double the damage of a normal swing (which might have crit on its own) and now you're out like 1/3 of your total stamina pool. Even more if you're using Sustained abilities.

There's a pretty big flaw in the stamina regen mechanic, I think.

Modifié par Bibdy, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:13 .

[Bibdy]

crackseed wrote...

My biggest gripe is actually that rogues have too much talent bloat.

4 trees in the rogue archetype alone, plus the spec of your choice AND weaponry of choice.

I really think Lockpicking needs to be skill based and open to anyone - it's too irksome being limited to rogues AND expecting the rogues, who already have to spend more talent points, to pick that up and juggle everything else. Good example is a rogue-archer.

4 for master stealth. 4 for top end lockpicking. 3 for lethality. 12 for archery tree. 4-5 at least for specs. Oi xD

That, too. Try to fit in Poisons, Traps, Stealing, Stealth AND Lockpicking (plus Coercion if you're the main character) in amongst everything else and Rogues, despite getting a new skill point every 2 levels, instead of 3, just can't fit it all in.

Best bet, if you're a Rogue, is to take characters like Leliana or Zevran, have them sit in camp the whole game, and make them your Poison/Trap making ****es, while you go galavanting off with all their crafted toys around the world.

[Inarai]

Bibdy wrote...

KariTR wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

A point blank type talent also happens to be the very first one in Archery.

It doesnt work the same. DA:O Melee Archery (the skill you refer to) enables you to fire a bow with no interruption if youre getting wellied on. The miss rate is horrible though.

Point Blank gives you a bonus to attack and damage at close range and with Improved PB the bonus increases the closer the enemy is.

Doesn't that kind of encourage running head first at something to get increased bonuses, being the antithesis of what an Archer is all about?

The point, actually, is to keep the archer in the mix instead of as far away as feasible.  It's also the entry to an important line of archer talents.

I would like to see more specialization specific equipment - some light and medium kit for duelists, nice bows for rangers, etc.

[FedericoV]

I think that rogue are a great class to play when you learn how to micro them. However I would improve them like that:

- Lockpicking as a talent does not make a lot of sense to me. It should be a skill (maybe merged with pick pocket and called "thievery" or something like that). More skill points to compensate.

- Archery and Dual Wield should be exclusive to rogue. While the Shield and the 2H trees should be esclusive to warrior. Obviously, there should be more basic talents for warriors to compensate.

Modifié par FedericoV, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:19 .

[Bibdy]

Inarai wrote...

The point, actually, is to keep the archer in the mix instead of as far away as feasible.  It's also the entry to an important line of archer talents.

I would like to see more specialization specific equipment - some light and medium kit for duelists, nice bows for rangers, etc.

And my point is that's not how it would play out. Melee Archer in DA:O as it is, is fine. It lets the Archer fight without having to crap his pants and spend the whole time running away like a little **** (its not like there are many readily available snares at your disposal). There's no BENEFIT for being in melee, but at the same time there's no PENALTY.

But, giving an Archer a BONUS to damage/attack/armour pen etc. just for being closer to a target wouldn't work, because it would feel like they're 'losing' the bonus for being at range. It would probably make people intentionally run their archer into people's faces to get those bonuses, rather than using it for the intended purpose of helping the Archer if he's stuck in melee. Hence, it would be better to only give the Archer those bonuses if his target is in melee with him AND attacking him (a target can be in melee range, but attacking someone else - which is where the problem would lie). That way you'd have no reason to run the Archer in head first to gain bonuses, only granting a bonus to the Archer if he finds himself in a sticky situation, which was the point in the first place, but doesn't give the player too much freedom to do stupid crap with it.

Modifié par Bibdy, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:20 .

[Oliver Sudden]

Nothing, really. My only gripe is having to throw a couple points into dual wielding, which I think is idiotic and cartoony.

[scootermcgaffin]

...nothing?

Rogues are pretty great, really. Lockpicking should be a skill but that's just because it makes more sense than it being a talent.

[RunCDFirst]

Use Any Item

[RoudyRogue]

I think they're awesome in all of the previous games I've played however, I haven't had a chance to make one in this game yet. An answer to the close range question for archer rogues would be switch to a different weapon set when they get too close. The rogue class is one of versatility. My opinion of rogues in previous games is they hit constant damage with the bow until the enemy gets up close and personal, which is when they switch to dual weapons. Think of Legolas barraging an enemy and once they find where he is, he switches to his dual swords to land the finishing blows.

[Slayer D]

Rogues are actually quite good as is. In fact, they can fight just about as well as a warrior. Which tells me it's warriors that really need some more stuff to define them vs. a rogue.

Though, yeah, hoods would be cool. And maybe make lock picking and pick pocketing a bit more advantageous. Right now you just get a little extra income. Just as long as it isn't short cuts that bypass much needed fight exp and loot. That's more of a disadvantage.

Acrobatics would be pretty cool, similar to the sacred urn video.  The ability to move and use their weapons at the same time, perhaps. 

Ex:  Pause game.  Activate ninja-like ability, choose 3 targets that are up to a certain distance from eachother and then unpause.  Your rogue does a couple flips here and there while whacking the enemy and moving to the back of the line where the enemy mage is.

Modifié par Slayer D, 04 décembre 2009 - 12:00 .

[Dynamomark]

Rogues should have some talents that would allow them to conjure spells (not the way mages do it, but maybe by way of invocation or by reading a scroll, and make it cunning-based).



I also agree about more skills points and hooded gear!

[KalosCast]

Single-weapon talents. If they let me confidently swagger as I talk my way out of every situation, I should be able to fight like a swashbuckler too!

[Sylixe]

The onyl thing they are missing is the ability to grab all the abilities they need early on faster.  Some of those talents should be condensed down and allow rogues to get them easier.

[D_Strider]

What do Rouges need? Better #$&@ to find in chests.



It would also be nice if the AI could flank when not controlling the rogue. Also, it is kind of annoying that the rogue only backstabs with the main-hand weapon. It makes it so you don't get much out of damage runes in the offhand weapon as a result.

[MonkeyLungs]

Oliver Sudden wrote...

Nothing, really. My only gripe is having to throw a couple points into dual wielding, which I think is idiotic and cartoony.

Dual wielding knives or daggers even though daggers are way oversized in this game is an extremely viable fighting style.

[KalosCast]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Oliver Sudden wrote...

Nothing, really. My only gripe is having to throw a couple points into dual wielding, which I think is idiotic and cartoony.

Dual wielding knives or daggers even though daggers are way oversized in this game is an extremely viable fighting style.

Clearly, tying up one of your hands and using two weapons with no decent weight or reach is the most effective way of dispatching people in plate-mail.

[LSDS]

I like bows just fine but I wouldn't mind some sort of thrown weapon ability for both rogues and warriors. Aside from bombs I mean. Throwing knives, hatchets, spears, stones, etc. Maybe with the ability to apply poisons to the thrown weapons or just have poisoned versions.

[Koralis]

Taleroth wrote...

KWMMA wrote...

I agree about stam regen. The nature of rogues is that they are light, flexible, athletic movers. I'd like to see that reflected with more energy compensation.

It actually is reflected.  Via their lighter armor and less fatigue.

Less fatigue, but the least stamina/mana of any class.    Basically warriors got a huge per level advantage in stamina specifically to overcome fatigue.  Fatigue isn't a penalty.  

[LSDS]

Koralis wrote...
Less fatigue, but the least stamina/mana of any class.    Basically warriors got a huge per level advantage in stamina specifically to overcome fatigue.  Fatigue isn't a penalty.  

Don't we have the option to pump up a rogue's willpower to increase stamina?

[Bibdy]

LSDS wrote...

Koralis wrote...
Less fatigue, but the least stamina/mana of any class.    Basically warriors got a huge per level advantage in stamina specifically to overcome fatigue.  Fatigue isn't a penalty.  

Don't we have the option to pump up a rogue's willpower to increase stamina?

Which costs them stat points they could be spending to improve damage...meaning a Warrior then catches up to them in damage output, since they don't have to spend points in Willpower themselves...see how its all interrelated?

Modifié par Bibdy, 04 décembre 2009 - 02:02 .

[toggled]

A skill that prevents the rogue from being knocked on his or her rear end.

[Loetek]

a extra set of arms

[Osprey39]

I'm almost finished with my 2nd playthrough and played a rogue this time. He's awesome and does incredible single target damage (Momentum rocks) and pretty good AE damage with bombs and Whirlwind. I usually just run him and let the other 3 work off their tactics.



The only thing I'd change about rogues (and this isn't really a rogue only thing) is poisons. They don't last long enough. I don't like having to constantly make more poisons or wasting a high level one on a fight that I didn't realize was going to be easy.

[Deathstyk85]

you know, rogues are completely fine in my book. so are warriors.

the only downside to rogues is the ugly gear lol.

other than that, they play just as easily as any other class. this is how i see it

mages=glass cannon, do lots of damage, but die easily.

rogues=so nice middle part, can take more damage than a mage, but less than a warrior, and do middle ground damage.

warrior=less damage, more survivability.

it all evens out. the only downside to non heavy armor characters, is they look terrible in their crappy gear lol