City Elf/Mage Ending :(
Débuté par
jamirflyd2
, avril 06 2012 02:34
#1
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 02:34
jamirflyd2
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Okay so going back through my DAO saves and looking through the wikia’s I noticed that my city elves were not being recognized as banns of the alienage and that every time I got to which hunt with my female rouge that the alienage was still in the same crappy conditions! WTF?! I was expecting a much better ending for the city elves considering one of them (my warden) saved them all. The is another problem with the mage ending as well. I know that the Chantry ignores Alister/Anora freeing the circle, but I read it is bugged as well. Is this ever going to be fixed in a patch or are game saved just going to be left like this?
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#2
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:05
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I truly doubt any of the Epilogue bugs will ever be fixed - modders might've sorted the mess out I suppose, but if you're a console gamer like me you're out of luck.
#3
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:26
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Pretty depressing, isn't it?
I think it's more realistic that literally two thousand years of racism and abuse doesn't just end overnight, but it's still depressing. When you think about it though, is this really surprising? Elves have positively contributed to human society multiple times throughout history and they still keep getting the shaft.
The elves were the first to answer Andraste's call to fight the Tevinter Imperium and their new homeland was still conquered by the Chantry less than two centuries later. Thane Shartan led Andraste's elven armies, yet his contribution was still stripped from the Chant of Light (and referencing him is considered heretical in many places). Heck, the elven hero Garahel had led an army against and slayed an Archdemon during the 4th Blight (the one directly before this; the one that humans had thought had eliminated darkspawn for good) and the elves were still no better off from it four centuries after his sacrifice.
I don't know how much of your problem is a bug or canon, but I'm guessing the later since the endgame and epilogue actually do hint very strongly that the newfound peace and cooperation between humans and elves is only short-lived. (Like when other characters congratulate you for helping your kind, your character can snark that it won't last long, and the epilogue slides reveal that things go downhill within several years.)
This is part of why I want to see city elves explored more in future Dragon Age games. If you're unhappy with your mage outcome, then suffice it to say the issue between mages and templars are explored a little further in the second game (I don't know how familiar you are with DA2), so take small comforts where you can get them.
Don't get me wrong, the ending for city elves breaks my heart in a million pieces too. All of the Wardens from every origin work so hard to save everyone, yet the city elf gets arguably the worst ending as your people's conditions are the ones that improve arguably the least. Hopefully that'll change in future games.
I think it's more realistic that literally two thousand years of racism and abuse doesn't just end overnight, but it's still depressing. When you think about it though, is this really surprising? Elves have positively contributed to human society multiple times throughout history and they still keep getting the shaft.
The elves were the first to answer Andraste's call to fight the Tevinter Imperium and their new homeland was still conquered by the Chantry less than two centuries later. Thane Shartan led Andraste's elven armies, yet his contribution was still stripped from the Chant of Light (and referencing him is considered heretical in many places). Heck, the elven hero Garahel had led an army against and slayed an Archdemon during the 4th Blight (the one directly before this; the one that humans had thought had eliminated darkspawn for good) and the elves were still no better off from it four centuries after his sacrifice.
I don't know how much of your problem is a bug or canon, but I'm guessing the later since the endgame and epilogue actually do hint very strongly that the newfound peace and cooperation between humans and elves is only short-lived. (Like when other characters congratulate you for helping your kind, your character can snark that it won't last long, and the epilogue slides reveal that things go downhill within several years.)
This is part of why I want to see city elves explored more in future Dragon Age games. If you're unhappy with your mage outcome, then suffice it to say the issue between mages and templars are explored a little further in the second game (I don't know how familiar you are with DA2), so take small comforts where you can get them.
Don't get me wrong, the ending for city elves breaks my heart in a million pieces too. All of the Wardens from every origin work so hard to save everyone, yet the city elf gets arguably the worst ending as your people's conditions are the ones that improve arguably the least. Hopefully that'll change in future games.
Modifié par Faerunner, 06 avril 2012 - 03:29 .
#4
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:40
jamirflyd2
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@greengoron89 I am a console player and as such feel totally left out! These should be fixed considering how much time and money players put into these games!
@Faerunner I see where your coming and on the wikia it says that even when the city elf warden is bann that riots happen, but that elves are much better off than before (though with a lot more in numbers) and that the Chantry would never let a Circle ever leave. I guess it's just nice to hope the warden's work could at least carve a new era of acceptance and peace.
@Faerunner I see where your coming and on the wikia it says that even when the city elf warden is bann that riots happen, but that elves are much better off than before (though with a lot more in numbers) and that the Chantry would never let a Circle ever leave. I guess it's just nice to hope the warden's work could at least carve a new era of acceptance and peace.
#5
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:16
commanderVal
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I agree it can be depressing to a degree, but the thing is that if such an overnight change were to take place, it would have happened ages ago when Shartan aided Andraste in throwing down the Archons' rule or when Garahel slew Andoral at Ayesleigh. That it didn't happen has more to do with human vice than anything else.
The Canticles of Shartan were made part of the Dissonant Veses by the very chantry he helped establish. His people were attacked and ousted from the Dales by the same people he helped free. Although it has been hinted that the Dalish began that war, the fact remains that humans were simply tolerating them even then. It is only natural that the same happens once the Elf Warden ends the fifth Blight. It is to be expected that the latest peace would last an even less time than the older one because the fifth Blight never really managed to manifest itself into the horrifying scales of the previous ones and was virtually unknown outside of Ferelden.
Further, in the case of a City Elf, he/she is already looked down upon by humans unlike in the case of a Dalish. His/her word will have the least authority in Thedas. Even casteless Dwarves hold better positions on the surface because to humans they are just Dwarves- "stout brave folk who like their drink and fighting". Elves are little more than servants.
As far as the Mages' condition goes, it is explained through books and DA2 why the Mage Warden's request was never carried out. Besides, even if it were possible Alistair/Anora is only the ruler of one country. They cannot force The Chantry to bend to their wishes.
Like the DA2 trailers and other dialogue popping up in recent Dragon Age installments say, people hate change with a passion. They talk about progress, but all they mean is more privileges for those who already have privileges and more subjugation of the already subjugated. Only rebellion will fix these things and..
that will be explained in future installments if my guess is correct.
The Canticles of Shartan were made part of the Dissonant Veses by the very chantry he helped establish. His people were attacked and ousted from the Dales by the same people he helped free. Although it has been hinted that the Dalish began that war, the fact remains that humans were simply tolerating them even then. It is only natural that the same happens once the Elf Warden ends the fifth Blight. It is to be expected that the latest peace would last an even less time than the older one because the fifth Blight never really managed to manifest itself into the horrifying scales of the previous ones and was virtually unknown outside of Ferelden.
Further, in the case of a City Elf, he/she is already looked down upon by humans unlike in the case of a Dalish. His/her word will have the least authority in Thedas. Even casteless Dwarves hold better positions on the surface because to humans they are just Dwarves- "stout brave folk who like their drink and fighting". Elves are little more than servants.
As far as the Mages' condition goes, it is explained through books and DA2 why the Mage Warden's request was never carried out. Besides, even if it were possible Alistair/Anora is only the ruler of one country. They cannot force The Chantry to bend to their wishes.
Like the DA2 trailers and other dialogue popping up in recent Dragon Age installments say, people hate change with a passion. They talk about progress, but all they mean is more privileges for those who already have privileges and more subjugation of the already subjugated. Only rebellion will fix these things and..
that will be explained in future installments if my guess is correct.
#6
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 12:47
ejoslin
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It's a bug. It's fixed in MRP and in ZDF. But yes, console gamers are out of luck. It's too bad. There actually are a lot of epilogue bugs, many for dumb, dumb reasons. However, the boons turn out to have results of unintended consequences no matter what -- they're pretty depressing.
Modifié par ejoslin, 06 avril 2012 - 12:49 .
#7
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 04:56
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commanderVal wrote...
The Canticles of Shartan were made part of the Dissonant Veses by the very chantry he helped establish. His people were attacked and ousted from the Dales by the same people he helped free. Although it has been hinted that the Dalish began that war, the fact remains that humans were simply tolerating them even then.
Don't forget that is has been hinted by the Chantry, the same institution that has a bad habit of rewriting history to justify their less than savoury actions. (They blatantly wrote Shartan out of the Chant of Light after conquering the kingdom they promised his people.) The Dalish may tell a different tale but they also acknowledge that history is written from the point of view of the winners, and the Chantry won that war.
Aside from that, yeah, I agree with everything you've said. =)
#8
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:24
Nerdage
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Got my first look at the 'fixed' CE ending where I made Shianni bann today...
I prefer the bugged version, the bug went over my head until I saw the fixed version just now. Ninja-fixed in ZDF I guess, first CE since I downloaded it.
I prefer the bugged version, the bug went over my head until I saw the fixed version just now. Ninja-fixed in ZDF I guess, first CE since I downloaded it.
Modifié par nerdage, 06 avril 2012 - 06:27 .
#9
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:15
commanderVal
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Faerunner wrote...
commanderVal wrote...
The Canticles of Shartan were made part of the Dissonant Veses by the very chantry he helped establish. His people were attacked and ousted from the Dales by the same people he helped free. Although it has been hinted that the Dalish began that war, the fact remains that humans were simply tolerating them even then.
Don't forget that is has been hinted by the Chantry, the same institution that has a bad habit of rewriting history to justify their less than savoury actions. (They blatantly wrote Shartan out of the Chant of Light after conquering the kingdom they promised his people.) The Dalish may tell a different tale but they also acknowledge that history is written from the point of view of the winners, and the Chantry won that war.
Aside from that, yeah, I agree with everything you've said. =)
Actually, I based the "Dalish attacked first" part on the tale of the battle with the Clayne Master Ilen tells the Dalish Elf warden. He tells us that they attacked the humans first in a preemptory strike and reasoned that the humans were little more than barbarians so the Elves were justified. You must admit, the Dalish do have a chip on their shoulder and were probably begging for an exalted march by then.:lol:The Hahren from Zathrian's clan apparently does not know this or chooses to ignore the fact because his chip takes some concentration to maintain. He even fought with my Dalish Warden.
#10
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 12:13
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commanderVal wrote...
Faerunner wrote...
commanderVal wrote...
The Canticles of Shartan were made part of the Dissonant Veses by the very chantry he helped establish. His people were attacked and ousted from the Dales by the same people he helped free. Although it has been hinted that the Dalish began that war, the fact remains that humans were simply tolerating them even then.
Don't forget that is has been hinted by the Chantry, the same institution that has a bad habit of rewriting history to justify their less than savoury actions. (They blatantly wrote Shartan out of the Chant of Light after conquering the kingdom they promised his people.) The Dalish may tell a different tale but they also acknowledge that history is written from the point of view of the winners, and the Chantry won that war.
Aside from that, yeah, I agree with everything you've said. =)
Actually, I based the "Dalish attacked first" part on the tale of the battle with the Clayne Master Ilen tells the Dalish Elf warden. He tells us that they attacked the humans first in a preemptory strike and reasoned that the humans were little more than barbarians so the Elves were justified. You must admit, the Dalish do have a chip on their shoulder and were probably begging for an exalted march by then.:lol:The Hahren from Zathrian's clan apparently does not know this or chooses to ignore the fact because his chip takes some concentration to maintain. He even fought with my Dalish Warden.
Oh, I had forgotten that part of the lore. (I'll have to revisit that part of the game again.) Still, even if the Dalish did start the war (bone-headed as it was), I doubt that anything they did warrented having their kingdom completely invaded, conquered and desecrated, stripped of the last records of their culture and forced to either reintegrate into the dregs of human society as slaves in all but name or wander homeless through human lands. That seems like disproportionate retribution no matter how the Chantry tries to justify otherwise. :/
Modifié par Faerunner, 08 avril 2012 - 12:20 .
