19 réponses à ce sujet

[Wynne]

Okay, weird topic, I know. But recently I've developed some numbness, tingling, and minor weakness/discomfort in my mouse arm, and it's left me avoiding multiplayer--the two times I've tried playing lately, I knew I wasn't playing my best and I felt bad being a burden to my teammates even on Silver, so I left. So what I'm looking for is a few recommendations.

I am a short woman (just a bit more than 5'1") with small hands (16cm from wrist to middle fingertip; finger itself is 7cm long), and my desk is a bit high for me, leaving me to choose between putting my chair high enough to have my elbow level with my hand, or putting my feet flat on the floor. Generally, I've chosen the latter because I heard it was better for the circulation. 

I've been using a Logitech G500 mouse for at least 2-3 years now. It's a big mouse, which seemed like a nice enough fit for a palm grip type like me, and I have loved it. However, it is somewhat higher off the desk than is comfortable for a small hand/arm, and the buttons are wider than I need while my ring finger hangs off the side, which is also uncomfortable. In fact, when I think about it, I believe this puts my wrist in a prime position to pinch the median nerve against my hard desk (I don't use a mousepad--another potential problem area).

Add to this the fact that my arm has always hung a bit loose rather than resting on the chair arm like it should. I never had problems before, so it may just be that I've been taxing it too much lately, but I think there have to be some things I can improve about my setup. (Unfortunately, not the arm height--it's not adjustable, only the chair height altogether. I'd have to get a new desk chair.)

Regardless of whether mouse shape/size has played a part, the optics are now dying, leading to some minor issues, so I had to order a new one. My new model will be 9mm closer to the desk than the current mouse while having slightly smaller buttons and a slot for the ring finger; I felt this would solve some of these issues nicely, but it won't arrive for a week. In the meantime, I'm left with continued discomfort that I don't want to push too far, and invites to friends' games that make me feel guilty because I have to keep turning them down. :/

I've been trying some yoga stretches and they've improved my situation, but I still don't feel like it's a good time to try multiplayer again yet. I will say this, though--the times I'd tried, I'd been playing my Quarian Engineer with a geth plasma shotgun. I did notice that charging shots seemed to strain my hand; previously I had no problems, but with my hand weakened, it's become taxing, especially over time. I might not have the same trouble if I chose a Vanguard or Adept, who mostly rely on powers.

So, for anyone who uses a PC frequently, especially anyone familiar with the challenges smaller people face when the average setup is made for the average-sized male and/or those who've had a pinched nerve/CTS--what do you recommend? Obviously taking more breaks could help (how often?), as could the new mouse. But do you have any stretching routines that you go through? Do you know anything about ergonomics and how to ensure that you're holding/using a mouse properly? Would a mousepad with one of those jelly wrist-guards aid me? Should my elbow and wrist be off the desk or on it? 

And for everyone: What do you feel are the easiest/least taxing guns to use in multiplayer, and with which characters do you prefer to use them?

[Iezza]

What do you mean by an easy gun? Anything with a big clip would be viable.

[Sneerz]

You wont get carpal from gaming at your age. The nerve usually gets damaged on people older than 50 and type on the computer ALL day, such as programmers. You have nothing to worry about, it could just be some stress on your wrist, I get it too.

[Sabresandiego]

You need to invest in a mouse which does not cause carpal tunnel for you. Its a trial and error ordeal, but I had carpal tunnel 12 years ago and it went away from using a different mouse. I currently use the razer lacheises.

Also avoid guns where u have to spam click like the mattock.

[Cyonan]

I have the same mouse as you, though I've never had a pinched nerve so I can't speak for that.

For me though, I find that the semi-auto weapons such as the Mattock can leave my hand a little sore after a match due to spamming the left mouse button all game long. I personally find the Sniper Rifles to be the best weapons to use, with full auto ones being fine as well. If your hand is sore charging the GPS though, I imagine you might run into issues with full auto weapons as well.

Weapons like the Widow or Mantis you don't need to hold down the button for, and the reload speed ensures that you aren't spamming click.

Though a weapon that might be a little bit better suited to playing an Engineer would probably be something like the Carnifex. A solid weapon choice and it's a slower firing weapon that you don't entirely need to click spam for.

[AndanteInBlue]

I highly recommend getting better arm support if you are feeling fatigue in the arm.  I use a pair of ErgoRest arm supports myself and I swear by them.

I would also consider learning how to mouse using your alternate hand.  It's not as hard as you think it is and takes about 2 weeks to aclimize for non-fine computing tasks.  Save your right arm for gaming

Don't use mouse pads if you are having issues with your nerves.  You want to be able to distribute the load  along your entire arm if possible, and using a mouse pad restricts movement.  If you get an arm rest, it will support your forearm so that your wrist is already in a more relaxed position.

Modifié par AndanteInBlue, 06 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Mystical_Gaming]

I use a wrist pad, or more like just a wrist bean bag thingy. It's really helped over the years I've used it and keeps my arm and hand at a good angle so I don't get worn down or any discomfort. They are cheap to buy and can be found in almost every office store I bet.

I do a lot of graphic design and video composting so I'm at the computer for long lengths of time and can say it really does help =)

[veramis]

www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp

The slim mouse is good for small hands. they also have a silicone keyboard in many different colors, takes getting used to but is quiet. Don't wash it in water or it'll die hehe.

If you're interested in ergonomics, borrow some books on Alexander Technique, simply put about proper mental and physical posture., or some of his books can be found on google books and video instructions on youtube. Same for William H. Bates, who basically says the same thing that Alexander said but dedicated his life to helping people improve eyesight through mental relaxation. Diana Watts' Renaissance of the Greek Ideal is in the same vein, but was written in a time and place where people were interested in such hypothetical reasoning as physical culture. Pavel Tsatsouline has excellent books on exercise without equipment, and much of his exercise is based on the premise that physical posture is primarily dependent on nervous function, and improving one improves the other. And take your multivitamins, calcium and fish oil to ensure good cardiovascular and joint health.

If you don't want to learn Alexander Technique, some simple things if followed should help a lot. Your feet should be planted on the floor, your chin slightly tucked in while head extending upward and forward, with shoulders widened. If done right, your lower back will then have a small curve, and you should not have your head "fall back" into your neck. Look at a picture of a seahorse to get an idea of what your spinal curves should be like, but of course not as exaggerated.

To illustrate to yourself what is meant by my posture advice, do the opposite. Allow your shoulders to fall forward, let your head fall back, and let your chest collapse and hunch over your keyboard. Notice how it negatively affects respiration, and it likewise harms your cardiovascular system. Simply following the simple rules of chin down, head stretching upward and forward, and wide chest, you will reap much of the benefits which Alexander Technique tries to teach. But it is not just something to do for a short time, like an exercise, it is the way a person holds his body when he is relaxed and composed. How a person feels affects his posture because we are communal creatures and conveying and communicating with others is instinctive, and the opposite is true, a person's posture affects how he feels, but because some unideal ways of holding the body will put unnecessary pressure on nerves, respiratory muscles, or cardiovascular system.

[MoeRayShep]

Sneerz wrote...

You wont get carpal from gaming at your age. The nerve usually gets damaged on people older than 50 and type on the computer ALL day, such as programmers. You have nothing to worry about, it could just be some stress on your wrist, I get it too.

That's just flat out untrue. I've known a couple of younger people with carpal tunnel: one is a white-hat hacker and computer scientist, the other a seamstress and gaming enthusiast. An educated guess is that there are risk factors based on the structure of the hand and nerve among other things.
Either way, OP should see a doctor and find a proper ergonomic mouse for her hand size instead of changing guns.

[marshalleck]

Put up chair, put feet on cheap plastic stool from the nearest dollar store.

[Rivermann]

 I've been gaming since I was at the age of 7, and I'm 25 now... So, I've had heavy gaming sessions when I was small and now that I'm an adult. 
Your age doesn't matter as I've experienced your problems and I found a solution, and it's about ergonomics and how to handle your mice.


Step by step:

1. Lower the table or put something under your feet so they rest. As a child, I had this wooden board going between the legs of the table which I could rest my legs on as my feet couldn't touch the ground.

2. Your arm should be resting on the side of the chair, chairs without the sides are useless for gaming.

3. Your chairs armrest (the side of the chair) should be level to the table so your arm doesn't experience any strain whatsoever.

4. Don't use your arm or palm to guide your mice, use your fingers. This also helps your precision when gaming.

5. Don't use a too small, or too big mice. You should be able to move the mice across the screen with your fingers without using your hand/wrist/arm.

6. Don't lean forward! Biggest mistake is to get too involved in the action and start leaning forward, DON'T!


These are my tips, it has kept me healthy without any discomfort or symptoms since I started doing this (Well over a decade). 

Working/Gaming without a good setup will ultimately cause you pain and other symptoms.. The sooner you start feeling it, the worse your setup is. And if you continue, the more severe the symptoms will become later in life. Even after you've stopped using a computer, just doing the dishes will become an even more painful nightmare. 

SO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY! 

Modifié par Rivermann, 06 avril 2012 - 03:54 .

[Aarek]

Rivermann wrote...

 I've been gaming since I was at the age of 7, and I'm 25 now... So, I've had heavy gaming sessions when I was small and now that I'm an adult. 
Your age doesn't matter as I've experienced your problems and I found a solution, and it's about ergonomics and how to handle your mice.


Step by step:

1. Lower the table or put something under your feet so they rest. As a child, I had this wooden board going between the legs of the table which I could rest my legs on as my feet couldn't touch the ground.

2. Your arm should be resting on the side of the chair, chairs without the sides are useless for gaming.

3. Your chairs armrest (the side of the chair) should be level to the table so your arm doesn't experience any strain whatsoever.

4. Don't use your arm or palm to guide your mice, use your fingers. This also helps your precision when gaming.

5. Don't use a too small, or too big mice. You should be able to move the mice across the screen with your fingers without using your hand/wrist/arm.

6. Don't lean forward! Biggest mistake is to get too involved in the action and start leaning forward, DON'T!


These are my tips, it has kept me healthy without any discomfort or symptoms since I started doing this (Well over a decade). 

Working/Gaming without a good setup will ultimately cause you pain and other symptoms.. The sooner you start feeling it, the worse your setup is. And if you continue, the more severe the symptoms will become later in life. Even after you've stopped using a computer, just doing the dishes will become an even more painful nightmare. 

SO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY! 

Sounds a lot like myself.  Started gaming at a young age, and I'm now 25 and feeling the effects of it.  My current desk is higher than my chair can go, and my keyboard(old model Logitech G15) is large enough that there's no room for the mouse on the keyboard tray.  Because of this, my mouse is a good 6" or so above the keyboard, which means my right arm is basically hanging off the edge of my desk.  To make matters worse, I broke my hand on my 18th birthday, so the joints are worse than they'd be otherwise.  This combined with the poor desk setup has caused my right hand to hurt constantly, and using it too much or cold weather just amplifies it.  I wouldn't doubt it if a doctor told me I had permanent damage to the joints in my hand, and it would be my own fault for not taking better care of it and getting a different setup for my desk.

[Wheatax]

Do this exercise (it helps me lessen the pain) and take a break once in awhile. I had the same problem when I always use the computer to do work, continuous writing or sketching. How you arrange the workspace can also help to reduce the stress on your hands and arm. I learn that moving your whole arm or from your shoulder helps to lessen the burden on your wrist instead of just moving the wrist part during drawing or when moving mouse.

If the pain still persist, consult a doctor. Wish you best of luck and hope that it will get better

Modifié par Drotter, 06 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[Crimson-Engage]

I'm 25 years old. Male and i thought i was getting carpal tunnel also however, after visiting my Doctor i learned that it was just inflamed tendons. Take Ibuprofen for 4 weeks and don't play at all during that time. :3

[Seijin8]

@Drotter: +1 on the video. I use a lot of these myself, but hadn't seen all of them.

I use mouse & KB at work and at home with different setups at each, so the strain is less than it would be. My home gaming setup was purchased explicitly for comfort with gaming marathons, but even then, 10+ hours in, only Aleve helps. I am 37 years old and gaming is my primary recreation. Tips from past experience which might help:

- Thumb-Trackball controllers take getting used to, but can be just as accurate and many setups are kinder on the arm. Might be a servicable alternative.
- Aleve. Note medical risk factors for naproxin use.
- A shorter stool or small table next to your seat might provide an adequate platform.
- A keyboard tray may not always be able to hold KB & mouse, but most can handle gamepad + mouse, and a KB may be placed higher on the desk if it is used less often. Really depends on how much typing you need to do.
- Perhaps a platform under the chair might help? Not sure how safe that would be for a rolling office chair or similar though. Feet placement again becomes an issue.

There are many alternatives that would cost money, but I am trying to avoid the expensive ones. Ultimately, a proper table and gaming setup would be recommended, with all proportions set as you need them.

Best of luck on this.

[Korolen]

You should see a doctor. Carpal Tunnel and RSI are both serious issues that get worse by trying to 'fight through the pain'. Just changing to a more ergonomic mouse isn't enough - my brother, who is 23 years old, has RSI. He ignored it for a while, but eventually he couldn't even use a computer or drive for the pain. We convinced him to see an expert, and he's now recovering, but you can avoid all that by just seeing an RSI specialist now and fixing the problem before it becomes one.

[DiStAiN]

Finding the right mouse is important, especially if you spend long hours using it. Logitech make a ton of different size/weighted mice. Adjusting your height/elevation to the desk or modifying your desk to fit your height is always recommended. Many of my gamer buddys have screwed boards to their desk to get a comfortable fit. Of couse, this isn't a pretty piece of furniture but, it gets the job done.

A good doctor once told me, "If it hurts, dont do that! If it feels good, do it alot!" I think he was trying to be funny but, it is good advice none the less.

Adjusting your DPi/mouse sensitivity can help as well. If you are stressing your arm, you can speed up your mouse to avoid making movements that are uncomfortable.

As for single fire weapons, you can purchase mice that will replace many keystrokes with one mouse click or macros as most of us know them. It's fairly simple to set up. Not always an advantage in games but, sometimes it may help the user. For instance, I knew a guy who only had 3 fingers on his mouse hand. Macros on his mouse let him do just as well as a normal gamer.

The logitech g9xx is a smaller mouse. Great mouse for people with small hands or people who just prefer to claw their mouse. It comes with a few different shells for it. The shells give you a choice for what feels more comfotable without having to buy seperate mice to try them out.

Also, doing hand excersizes will help as well. Employees for most companies that run assembly lines with people who do the same motion with their hands for extended periods usually offer or require a break each day for hand exercises. This would suit you well. I can recommend a lightly bound hand grip, small stress ball, or even massaging the center of both of your palms every couple of hours. All of these things really ease the tension of the wrists.

[Lybra]

I didn't notice anyone mentioning this, so I'll go ahead and suggest it:

Try to work towards a higher mouse sensitivity. This won't help with click spamming problems (which I also experience) but it will produce shorter moves of the wrist when trying to aim, walk around corners (especially when sprinting) and moving your character in general. Shorter moves = less tention on your wrist. I'm up to 70% sensitivity and it's helped a lot with numbness and tingling, plus it's making me a tad more accurate. You could try something like a 3% increase per game to get used to the change and see if it works for you.

Click spamming is still an issue, but I found the Mattock is the only weapon that causes my right index to feel numb after 4 waves or so.

Good luck and keep playing

Edit: Ah, just noticed DiStAiN mentioned this in the above post

Modifié par Lybra, 06 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Wynne]

Thank you, everyone, for the advice and thoughts. I took the advice of those who said "go to the doctor" just to be sure. If you said or thought tendonitis... ding ding! My doctor agreed. He nodded his head to everything I said, even about the cold feeling spreading to my other limbs, and told me his wife had experienced the exact same thing; that it was the body trying to compensate for tension in other places or something like that. I asked him how long I should wait before using my arm again, and he said, "six months!" just to see the look of horror on my face. The troll... 

Then he told me that it wasn't necessary to rest it for a specific period of time, just to use the anti-inflammation meds he gave me and above all, change my setup. So I've duct-taped a pillow to my armrest for now to make sure my elbow was level with the table, gotten a new mouse, done some stretching exercises, and it's done wonders for me. I feel pretty much good as new.

Thanks again for the tips, everybody.

[Jesse]

Glad to hear you got this issue sorted Wynne