173 réponses à ce sujet

[FrozenDreamfall]

If you think people who want a better ending and should have it are not real fans YOU forgot what being a real fan and truly getting into the story means.

[Rothgar49]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

Rothgar49 wrote...

Is it just me or is BSN turning into a "you're either with us or against is" place?

Turning?

What, are you new here?

Nope I've been around on the Bioware forums that were around for Baldurs Gate and NWN's

[BadgerladDK]

OP, thanks for the call for sanity. Now, allow me to ramble incoherently :-)

I was, I suppose, a reasonably hardcore fan of Bioware (mostly KOTOR and ME, as the fantasy setting was never really my cup of tea, although I did play and enjoy DA:O because of Bioware's skill for storytelling and world creation, and even found DA2 an ok, but not great, game). I would take time off work for a new Bioware release, which I'd have preordered months in advance.

This held true for 99% of Mass Effect 3, but the ending not only made me think less of that game, but the trilogy as a whole. It just didn't... fit. Even if it had been perfectly executed, it was thematically flawed and didn't fit with the overall story of the three games. It fit with Deus ex 12 years ago, because that story was always leading up to that particular choice.

Bioware had already shown that they can write meaningful sacrifice stories (Tuchanka and Rannoch storylines come to mind), but the ending just wasn't good, meaningful or worthy of the rest of the story.

Do I consider myself a fan these days? I don't, partly because of the poor ending, partly because of the response to the player reaction, which I've found detached and arrogant. The only name on my automatic preorder list is gone, from now on I'll wait for fan reviews to be out. And I'll still be disregarding 1/10 reviews as well as 10/10 ones. No game that actually manages to get past the loading screen is a 1, and no game is a 10 unless it breaks some serious new ground. Mass Effect 3 is at the higher end of average with the ending really dragging it down. With a suitable ending, it would have been a fantastic game.

At the end of the day, I now consider myself a customer rather than a fan. If the extended ending at least makes it coherent with the rest of the story, I'll remain a customer. So in answer to your original question... Should the forums only be a fountain of gushing fans, or should the customers who feel they didn't get a satisfying product be here too, if nothing else then to wax poetic about past gaming glories? In my opinion, both have their place.

[Suikoden]

BobSmith101 wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...

Forbes is not respected 1 iota in the realm of videogames.  I don't see gamers clamoring onto forums and saying "did you hear what Forbes gave Mass Effect 3?  ROFL! OMG!"  Forbes is catering to your opinion on the matter - which is why you side with them on this.  Were the results reversed, and Forbes spoke out against the retakers, your response would be the exact opposite.

 And EA's stock is virtually identical from the day that Mass Effect 3 was released.

Forbes is not interested in Mass Effect as a video game. It's viewing Mass Effect as a product and the effects as it applies to business.

Well thanks for telling what what my response would have been not sure why you think you are qualified to do that ?But thanks for the input.

Well if a 75% drop is virtually identical it is.

$16.49 on March 6
$16.36 right now.

Not exactly 75%.

[Bocks]

Anyone who is still a fan of Bioware is insane.

Anyone who cares about Bioware wants them to shove their heads out of their butt-puckers.

[Dylan Dogood]

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

If you think people who want a better ending and should have it are not real fans YOU forgot what being a real fan and truly getting into the story means.

No, I don´t think that. If it wasn´t clear enough, that´s my fault.

Modifié par Dylan Dogood, 06 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[Suikoden]

L00p wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...
Forbes is not respected 1 iota in the realm of videogames.  I don't see gamers clamoring onto forums and saying "did you hear what Forbes gave Mass Effect 3?  ROFL! OMG!"  Forbes is catering to your opinion on the matter - which is why you side with them on this.  Were the results reversed, and Forbes spoke out against the retakers, your response would be the exact opposite.

 And EA's stock is virtually identical from the day that Mass Effect 3 was released.

We're talking about business when we refer to Forbes.
Business in general. Business. Good or bad Business. Video game business included.

And if Forbes, as you say, "is not respected 1 iota in the realm of videogames", why should they care about this incident at all? Because it is a prime example of shoddy and poor way of conducting BUSINESS, that's why.

BobSmith has already educated you on the stock dropping 75%.

They're interested because it's a watercooler subject and they're jumping on the bandwagon.  Also, the stock has dropped a little over 1% since Mass Effect 3 was released.  If it dropped 75%, there would be no more Bioware.  Not sure where BobSmith is pulling 75%, but I suspect it might be out of his ****.

Modifié par beutelmarkus, 06 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[Suikoden]

L00p wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...

Forbes is not respected 1 iota in the realm of videogames.  I don't see gamers clamoring onto forums and saying "did you hear what Forbes gave Mass Effect 3?  ROFL! OMG!"  Forbes is catering to your opinion on the matter - which is why you side with them on this.  Were the results reversed, and Forbes spoke out against the retakers, your response would be the exact opposite.

 And EA's stock is virtually identical from the day that Mass Effect 3 was released.

Forbes is not interested in Mass Effect as a video game. It's viewing Mass Effect as a product and the effects as it applies to business.

Well thanks for telling what what my response would have been not sure why you think you are qualified to do that ?But thanks for the input.

Well if a 75% drop is virtually identical it is.

$16.49 on March 6
$16.36 right now.

Not exactly 75%.

Source, please.

The Internet. 
https://www.google.c...=ob&q=NASDAQ:EA

[BurnOutBrighter]

If I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't be here, hating on the ending and doing as much as I can for BioWare to change it. I love Mass Effect so much that I can't give up on it until it gets the ending it deserves - the ending that was promised, the ending that makes sense, and the ending that gives us choices and consequences.

[CrazyRah]

Since the word fan is a shorter version of fanatic.. no i never was a "fan" but a supporter of them and i've not entirely given up on them just yet

[Sundance31us]

Rothgar49 wrote...
Is it just me or is BSN turning into a "you're either with us or against is" place?

Started the Thursday after release and gotten worse since.

[Il Divo]

beutelmarkus wrote...

Forbes' gaming articles are irrelevent.  Getting gaming articles from Forbes would be like getting anime articles from Sports Illustrated.  Forbes is cashing in on the internet phenomena of the ending just like every other website and podcast out there - and it's very easy right now to pick and choose websites and articles that back up your views on the matter - whatever they may be.

Actually, I back up Forbes because what they say is logical, given the topic of discussion. You seem to be unable to see past the phrase "gaming article" and assume that Forbes itself is not considering the business end of the spectrum, which they have.

That's the exact problem with idiots like Colin Moriarty who tell us that it's Bioware's "artistic vision". Alot of these gaming journalists seem to imagine the writers going into isolation for long stretches at a time and coming out with beautiful works of art. It completely ignores the collaborative process which is involved when any writer is involved in the entertainment industry. The market doesn't care about Bioware's artistic vision; the market only cares whether that vision will generate a profit. As long as consumers are necessary for Bioware to produce their artistic vision, we will have an impact in what they produce.

Modifié par Il Divo, 06 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[vertigo72]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

Rothgar49 wrote...

Is it just me or is BSN turning into a "you're either with us or against is" place?

Turning?

What, are you new here?

I'm new here and I'm surprised. I bought ME1-2 last year for $5 on steam, never visited any ME forum. Actually, never visited any gaming forum. It was like that for previous games too? 

I believe people should really improve their real life. Being so agry about an imaginary story (and about a company that produces imaginary stories) is something unhealty.

Modifié par vertigo72, 06 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[Farbautisonn]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Deliberately sinking their own franchise? For what?

A) Not sink, scuttle. Controlled demolition. To clear path for future franchise. I think they had enough with "consequences" for now.

 They really think it is philosophical and all that. I mean speculation hidden meanings everywhere.

C) Red (no pun intended) herring a.k.a. my favorite "chaff and flares". To draw our attention to one obvious problem from lot of others. We could argue whether graphics are good or bad, same for animations or visuals, weapon system, skills, storywriting, but now most are concentrated on endings and endings only.

Doesnt seem that "controlled" to me...

[Dylan Dogood]

Larg_Kellein wrote...

OP, thanks for the call for sanity. Now, allow me to ramble incoherently :-)

I was, I suppose, a reasonably hardcore fan of Bioware (mostly KOTOR and ME, as the fantasy setting was never really my cup of tea, although I did play and enjoy DA:O because of Bioware's skill for storytelling and world creation, and even found DA2 an ok, but not great, game). I would take time off work for a new Bioware release, which I'd have preordered months in advance.

This held true for 99% of Mass Effect 3, but the ending not only made me think less of that game, but the trilogy as a whole. It just didn't... fit. Even if it had been perfectly executed, it was thematically flawed and didn't fit with the overall story of the three games. It fit with Deus ex 12 years ago, because that story was always leading up to that particular choice.

Bioware had already shown that they can write meaningful sacrifice stories (Tuchanka and Rannoch storylines come to mind), but the ending just wasn't good, meaningful or worthy of the rest of the story.

Do I consider myself a fan these days? I don't, partly because of the poor ending, partly because of the response to the player reaction, which I've found detached and arrogant. The only name on my automatic preorder list is gone, from now on I'll wait for fan reviews to be out. And I'll still be disregarding 1/10 reviews as well as 10/10 ones. No game that actually manages to get past the loading screen is a 1, and no game is a 10 unless it breaks some serious new ground. Mass Effect 3 is at the higher end of average with the ending really dragging it down. With a suitable ending, it would have been a fantastic game.

At the end of the day, I now consider myself a customer rather than a fan. If the extended ending at least makes it coherent with the rest of the story, I'll remain a customer. So in answer to your original question... Should the forums only be a fountain of gushing fans, or should the customers who feel they didn't get a satisfying product be here too, if nothing else then to wax poetic about past gaming glories? In my opinion, both have their place.

Well put, and I agree that both have their place. But for the forums to produce good discussion and criticism, I think a balance between the two is necessary. It can´t be a forum full of only hate. The discourse needs to, in some way, reflect the quality of the product as a whole. In this case Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Dylan Dogood, 06 avril 2012 - 12:32 .

[Drudgie]

Dylan Dogood wrote...

Hello People

I feel this forum is not a place for fans but a place for people that hate.
You talk about the ending and how Bioware betrayed you. You talk about how the mother brain EA ruined Dragon age 2, and how it´s only natural that Mass effect 3 went the same route. You consider Mass Effect 2 to be only a shadow of the original Mass Effect, the only true Space Opera RPG.

Basically. I wonder how people with all the aforementioned views can still be considered fans. They haven´t liked a Bioware game for half a decade. What are you doing on these forums when the only thing you do is rant about how Bioware continuously makes worse games, with less of what you love for every game.

I understand that you have been on these forums a long time. And consider yourselves the elite. And gotten alot of friends. 

But some times a just want you to leave.

I think It´s fine to dislike an ending or a detail or two.
But apart from that shouldn´t this forum be a place for people who actually likes the games Bioware makes Today. A place for fans.

I enjoyed Mass Effect 1 and 2 and considered them some of the greatest games ever.
Heck i even enjoyed 90% of Mass Effect 3 and was thing what a great experience good job Bioware.
I didn't believe they would screw it up.
But then to screw it up a second time when we give them a second chance?

Your right maybe i shouldn't called myself a fan.
I'll call myself an as an Ex Fan. or a Fan of Bioware classic i guess.

[Grimwick]

Yes I am fan. i loved ME1,2 and 3.
Just because you hate the ending to something doesn't mean you aren't a fan any more.
If you begin to complain, disagree and voice your disagreement with a company that you feel has made bad/wrong decisions then you are still a fan.
Hating on Bioware doesn't stop making you a fan of the games, it just shows you are seriously disappointed with their decisions.

[Dylan Dogood]

BurnOutBrighter wrote...

If I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't be here, hating on the ending and doing as much as I can for BioWare to change it. I love Mass Effect so much that I can't give up on it until it gets the ending it deserves - the ending that was promised, the ending that makes sense, and the ending that gives us choices and consequences.

It might not make a difference, but I do consider you a fan. Just like me. Even if our opinons might differ on the details.

Modifié par Dylan Dogood, 06 avril 2012 - 12:28 .

[Rudy Lis]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Doesnt seem that "controlled" to me...

They are not sappers.

[Drudgie]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Deliberately sinking their own franchise? For what?

A) Not sink, scuttle. Controlled demolition. To clear path for future franchise. I think they had enough with "consequences" for now.

 They really think it is philosophical and all that. I mean speculation hidden meanings everywhere.

C) Red (no pun intended) herring a.k.a. my favorite "chaff and flares". To draw our attention to one obvious problem from lot of others. We could argue whether graphics are good or bad, same for animations or visuals, weapon system, skills, storywriting, but now most are concentrated on endings and endings only.

Doesnt seem that "controlled" to me...

Controlled or not anytime i see any of the devs or god forbid casey hudson promoting a new product I'll know at least it will be an advert for do not buy this product.

[Sundance31us]

vertigo72 wrote...
It was like that for previous games too?

Not as viral and polarizing before.

[vertigo72]

staindgrey wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Oh, the "fans"!

One thing I find surprising about them is when they play the ****ing game? They are all the time on forums, in all those endless discussions about "what they deserve". How much free time do they have?

We have a lot more free time since we lack the urge to play ME3 for the time being.

Of course, this is all exaggeration. I'm sure everyone here plays multiple games and likely hold a job or two, has family, friends, social obligations... That doesn't mean we don't have time to come and vent via our only outlet on which we could possibly be heard. If we weren't "fans", we'd give up on the product and walk away. We're here because we want to fully appreciate it, but can't yet because it's a faulty product.

So you accept that you are a very vocal minority, because, as you said, people who play don't care about all this movement. They can be even 10000 times more of them, but they are happy with the game and just play.

I mean, I spend 2 hours playing daily, so I really don't have much free time left right now. Probably when more people will finish the game all this movement will naturally end, already now there are much more people like me on this forum than 2 weeks ago.

[Dylan Dogood]

Grimwick wrote...

Yes I am fan. i loved ME1,2 and 3.
Just because you hate the ending to something doesn't mean you aren't a fan any more.
If you begin to complain, disagree and voice your disagreement with a company that you feel has made bad/wrong decisions then you are still a fan.
Hating on Bioware doesn't stop making you a fan of the games, it just shows you are seriously disappointed with their decisions.

I understand, you don´t need to like the ending to be a fan. To want Bioware to change it only means you care.
I get that. I do.
But. If all you do is hate on these forums game after game after game, I think you should think again about what exactly you are doing here. 

Modifié par Dylan Dogood, 06 avril 2012 - 12:25 .

[berguina]

I think people who really loves the game are now in their free time busy to play instead than discuss here.

I'm at my second playthrough and I plan to do more. I'm just disturbed by this discussion about the endings that comes in any announcement (not concerning the endings) Bioware does here or on facebook. It's a lack of respect to Bioware, but also to all the gamers who don't care of your opinion about the endings and just wish to enjoy their favorite game.