279 réponses à ce sujet

[Filurija]

jedi.flow wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

A) Everyone lives. No sacrificing all synthetics to save organics, etc.
Synthetics and Organics are merged into a new class of hybrid lifeforms, thereby removing the rift between the two. Major theme of transhumanism.
C) Technically, destroying the Reapers is a form of omnicide, where all the species that had ever been up to that point harvested and distilled into a Reaper-form, are obliterated.

This. Shepard basically causes the Singularity. 

i don't like the feel of it, its sounds more like everybody would become a sort of a Husk in the Green ending.
Its clear to me that those implants joker received are very diffrent than Shepard has so i don't know how the rest of the species will behave after the Green explosion, and again its reaper tech.

[aries1001]

MassEffect4Eva1710 wrote...

Synthesis is known as the "best" ending because it brings "peace". Oh yeah, you're also changing everything everyone is without their consent! It's like;

"Hey, because I'm Commander Shepard I can turn you into a robot/flesh thingy because I say so!"

I hate the Synthesis ending because of that. It's unnatural! People are meant to be organic and robots are meant to be synthetic. And combining them is wrong. To me it's not the best ending. It's the worst.

So if deaf people today get Cochlear implants to help them with their hearing, they're no longer human? Or if heard of hearing people have hearing aids that allow them to hear, they're no longer human? Or if a soldier wounded in battle get an artficial limb, say like an arm or a leg, they're no longer human? And if elderly people get artificial hips or shoulders implanted via an operation, they're no longer human?
 
As for the wider medical perspective, I've just read a fascinationg article about brain surgery in a Danish magazine called Euroman in which the surgeon being interviewed made this qualified guess: He predicts that in maybe 10-15 years time, soldiers or people who lost say a leg or an arm can get artificial limbs (legs, arms etc) implanted in their bodies and that they will be able to control them, the artifical limbs, via thought waves from their brains alone. Does this mean that these people are no longer - ehm - humans? 

Please remember that the co-founders of Bioware are medical doctors (M.Dr.) and that their first game actually was some sort of artificial thingie (I think) that could help doctors to better understand what went on in the human body, before, under and after operations. (as I remember it). Bio-Ware's name come from this - ehm - product.

I'd suggest that if you look at the way things are presented in the ME games, it deals with some of the major decisions we'll have to make during the next 10-25 years. Are people who are partly or mostly synthetics still - ehm - humans? Or have they crossed into another species? e.g. are they transhumans? Or?  If we take the conflict in ME3 serious i.e. the war between organics (people) and synthethics (artificial intelligence), we have to ask ourselves what is a human being? And can an artificial intelligence become or be human? And what does it mean to be human?

Maybe this was what the ending to ME3 should have asked? and have clarified? And this was what Bioware's intention was all along, but due to time constraints, they dimsply didn't have time to make it so, e.g. implement it correctly - in time.

Bioware's take on this - and maybe also even Ray M. and Greg Z.'s stand on this because they're dorctors after all - are that everyone being part synthetic and part organics will be the best of both worlds. And that this will prevent, they hope, future conflicts between organcis and synthetics. However, history has shown us, that, as easy as this, it won't be.

My personal predictions would be that the Turians might still hate the Geth, the Salarians will still be at war with the Krogans, and that the conflicts will still run the ME universe, maybe as an undercurrent, but it will be there. Changing people''s and the AI's (e.g. organics and synthetics) physical apperance will not change their minds or their consciousness or their habits ovenight.

I do hope that an ME4 take this into account and show how the conflicts still are there, even if all now have implants and are a mix of human and artificial beings as they all now have cybernetic implants. Basically everyone is or will be a cyborg to a varying degree if you as Commander Shepard choose what is known as the 'green ending'.


edit: layout.

Modifié par aries1001, 07 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[Tirigon]

Amioran wrote...
As for my paintings, I am sorry for you but I studied art at the accademy and I am a well known writer in my country. I believe I know a "little" more than you about those two topics. Until you don't back up what you say with something of concrete I will surely not take you seriously either.

I dont always use internet memes but if I do....
Pics or didnt happen.
Your posts dont make you look like a writer but rather like an illliterate on an attention-wh*ring trip.

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Lol the green ending is the Hitler ending - Make everyone the same!

Hitler didnt make everyone the same, but killed them. So Destroy is the "Hitler ending".

Synthesis doesnt make everyone the same either, so yea.... Puling the n@zi card just for the sake of it, without having any point. Kudos to you.

[Nauks]

It's thinly veiled promotion for the Deus Ex games.
They wouldn't use the exact same ending for no reason ;p

[Filurija]

aries1001 wrote...

MassEffect4Eva1710 wrote...

Synthesis is known as the "best" ending because it brings "peace". Oh yeah, you're also changing everything everyone is without their consent! It's like;

"Hey, because I'm Commander Shepard I can turn you into a robot/flesh thingy because I say so!"

I hate the Synthesis ending because of that. It's unnatural! People are meant to be organic and robots are meant to be synthetic. And combining them is wrong. To me it's not the best ending. It's the worst.

So if deaf people today get Cochlear implants to help them with their hearing, they're no longer human? Or if heard of hearing people have hearing aids that allow them to hear, they're no longer human? Or if a soldier wounded in battle get an artficial limb, say like an arm or a leg, they're no longer human? And if elderly people get artificial hips or shoulders implanted via an operation, they're no longer human?
 
As for the wider medical perspective, I've just read a fascinationg article about brain surgery in a Danish magazine called Euroman in which the surgeon being interviewed made this qualified guess: He predicts that in maybe 10-15 years time, soldiers or people who lost say a leg or an arm can get artificial limbs (legs, arms etc) implanted in their bodies and that they will be able to control them, the artifical limbs, via thought waves from their brains alone. Does this mean that these people are no longer - ehm - humans? 

Please remember that the co-founders of Bioware are medical doctors (M.Dr.) and that their first game actually was some sort of artificial thingie (I think) that could help doctors to better understand what went on in the human body, before, under and after operations. (as I remember it). Bio-Ware's name come from this - ehm - product.

I'd suggest that if you look at the way things are presented in the ME games, it deals with some of the major decisions we'll have to make during the next 10-25 years. Are people who are partly or mostly synthetics still - ehm - humans? Or have they crossed into another species? e.g. are they transhumans? Or?  If we take the conflict in ME3 serious i.e. the war between organics (people) and synthethics (artificial intelligence), we have to ask ourselves what is a human being? And can an artificial intelligence become or be human? And what does it mean to be human?

Maybe this was what the ending to ME3 should have asked? and have clarified? And this was what Bioware's intention was all along, but due to time constraints, they dimsply didn't have time to make it so, e.g. implement it correctly - in time.

Bioware's take on this - and maybe also even Ray M. and Greg Z.'s stand on this because they're dorctors after all - are that everyone being part synthetic and part organics will be the best of both worlds. And that this will prevent, they hope, future conflicts between organcis and synthetics. However, history has shown us, that, as easy as this, it won't be.

My personal predictions would be that the Turians might still hate the Geth, the Salarians will still be at war with the Krogans, and that the conflicts will still run the ME universe, maybe as an undercurrent, but it will be there. Changing people''s and the AI's (e.g. organics and synthetics) physical apperance will not change their minds or their consciousness or their habits ovenight.

I do hope that an ME4 take this into account and show how the conflicts still are there, even if all now have implants and are a mix of human and artificial beings as they all now have cybernetic implants. Basically everyone is or will be a cyborg to a varying degree if you as Commander Shepard choose what is known as the 'green ending'.


edit: layout.

You say that *Changing people's and the AI's physical apperance will not change their minds or their consciousness or their habits overnight* How do you know that for sure? maybe eveybody received some sort of control chip like Miranda wanted to do to Shepard in ME2, or some sort of mind altering chip. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Eudaemonium wrote...

My biggest problem with Synthesis, other than the ludicrous way in which it happens, is the way Shepard basically decides to just impose it upon all life in the galaxy. Transhumanism is a noble goal, but I don't really think it should just be imposed. I admit that, taking the endings at face value, it is the best ending.

That and there is nothing to stop pure organic intelligence from evolving in the future, leading to more comflicts

[Tirigon]

Filurija wrote...


You say that *Changing people's and the AI's physical apperance will not change their minds or their consciousness or their habits overnight* How do you know that for sure? maybe eveybody received some sort of control chip like Miranda wanted to do to Shepard in ME2, or some sort of mind altering chip. 

So green colors can not only change DNA but also implant mindcontrol chips?

I always underestimated green, it seems.

[Wifflebottom]

I thought red was the best since if you have a really high EMS it's the only way to get the scene where Shepard breathes underneath the rubble.

[Ericus]

aries1001 wrote...

MassEffect4Eva1710 wrote...

Synthesis is known as the "best" ending because it brings "peace". Oh yeah, you're also changing everything everyone is without their consent! It's like;

"Hey, because I'm Commander Shepard I can turn you into a robot/flesh thingy because I say so!"

I hate the Synthesis ending because of that. It's unnatural! People are meant to be organic and robots are meant to be synthetic. And combining them is wrong. To me it's not the best ending. It's the worst.

So if deaf people today get Cochlear implants to help them with their hearing, they're no longer human? Or if heard of hearing people have hearing aids that allow them to hear, they're no longer human? Or if a soldier wounded in battle get an artficial limb, say like an arm or a leg, they're no longer human? And if elderly people get artificial hips or shoulders implanted via an operation, they're no longer human?
 
As for the wider medical perspective, I've just read a fascinationg article about brain surgery in a Danish magazine called Euroman in which the surgeon being interviewed made this qualified guess: He predicts that in maybe 10-15 years time, soldiers or people who lost say a leg or an arm can get artificial limbs (legs, arms etc) implanted in their bodies and that they will be able to control them, the artifical limbs, via thought waves from their brains alone. Does this mean that these people are no longer - ehm - humans? 

Please remember that the co-founders of Bioware are medical doctors (M.Dr.) and that their first game actually was some sort of artificial thingie (I think) that could help doctors to better understand what went on in the human body, before, under and after operations. (as I remember it). Bio-Ware's name come from this - ehm - product.

I'd suggest that if you look at the way things are presented in the ME games, it deals with some of the major decisions we'll have to make during the next 10-25 years. Are people who are partly or mostly synthetics still - ehm - humans? Or have they crossed into another species? e.g. are they transhumans? Or?  If we take the conflict in ME3 serious i.e. the war between organics (people) and synthethics (artificial intelligence), we have to ask ourselves what is a human being? And can an artificial intelligence become or be human? And what does it mean to be human?

Maybe this was what the ending to ME3 should have asked? and have clarified? And this was what Bioware's intention was all along, but due to time constraints, they dimsply didn't have time to make it so, e.g. implement it correctly - in time.

Bioware's take on this - and maybe also even Ray M. and Greg Z.'s stand on this because they're dorctors after all - are that everyone being part synthetic and part organics will be the best of both worlds. And that this will prevent, they hope, future conflicts between organcis and synthetics. However, history has shown us, that, as easy as this, it won't be.

My personal predictions would be that the Turians might still hate the Geth, the Salarians will still be at war with the Krogans, and that the conflicts will still run the ME universe, maybe as an undercurrent, but it will be there. Changing people''s and the AI's (e.g. organics and synthetics) physical apperance will not change their minds or their consciousness or their habits ovenight.

I do hope that an ME4 take this into account and show how the conflicts still are there, even if all now have implants and are a mix of human and artificial beings as they all now have cybernetic implants. Basically everyone is or will be a cyborg to a varying degree if you as Commander Shepard choose what is known as the 'green ending'.


edit: layout.

There's a catch here though.  On a personal level, I have no problem with synthesis/transhumanism.  I picked to support that ending in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  But in the ME3 synthesis ending, you FORCE this outcome on the galaxy.  If it were simply to offer a choice that each individual could accept or reject, that could offer up amazing opportunities for every species and synthetic lifeform.  But in my opinion, it is unethical to impose that type of fundamental change on people without their permission.  

It would be really interesting to debate whether killing all synthetics is a more ethical option or not.  It is the ending I chose for my Shepard since it was the only way to guaruntee that the galaxy would be safe from the Reapers for ever.  But at a tremendous cost...

[kalle90]

Wifflebottom wrote...

I thought red was the best since if you have a really high EMS it's the only way to get the scene where Shepard breathes underneath the rubble.

Is Shepard living necessarily the best ending?

[Suikoden]

jedi.flow wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...

On a side note, what's really interesting about these endings when taken at face value, is that almost everyone has a completely different perspective on just what they mean.  

In other words, the ending means exactly what you want it to mean. There is no canon.

Indoctrination is probably the only possible current interpretation that would have a general consensus without wildly wavering viewpoints and opinions.

[metawanderer]

I choosed Synthesis (green) ending because it was the most optimistic of three. My paragon Sheps were always against the Illusive Man's ideals about controlling the Reapers and my Sheps are not hypocrites. Red seems like a good ending but I could never exterminate the entire Geth race and EDI after they both showed their personality and for lack of a better word, their humanity towards other races. Even when Shep lives after the red ending I am remined what the Starchild said about it being a temporary peace, that does not sound like a good ending to me. Green seems like the best ending for my Sheps because they always strived towards peace for the galaxy even if they must sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

[Suikoden]

metawanderer wrote...

I choosed Synthesis (green) ending because it was the most optimistic of three. My paragon Sheps were always against the Illusive Man's ideals about controlling the Reapers and my Sheps are not hypocrites. Red seems like a good ending but I could never exterminate the entire Geth race and EDI after they both showed their personality and for lack of a better word, their humanity towards other races. Even when Shep lives after the red ending I am remined what the Starchild said about it being a temporary peace, that does not sound like a good ending to me. Green seems like the best ending for my Sheps because they always strived towards peace for the galaxy even if they must sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

Makes sense if taken at face-value, but if the IT is correct, the star child will attempt to manipulate you and have the blue and green options seem to be the better choices.

[Charsi]

staindgrey wrote...

No ****ing clue.

If I play the game again, I'll always pick "destroy". It's the only one that makes sense for Shepard.

The only right end IMO is the Destroy one, becouse is the only end where Shepard can survive!

The green end is against everything you've been fighting for!

[metawanderer]

beutelmarkus wrote...

metawanderer wrote...

I choosed Synthesis (green) ending because it was the most optimistic of three. My paragon Sheps were always against the Illusive Man's ideals about controlling the Reapers and my Sheps are not hypocrites. Red seems like a good ending but I could never exterminate the entire Geth race and EDI after they both showed their personality and for lack of a better word, their humanity towards other races. Even when Shep lives after the red ending I am remined what the Starchild said about it being a temporary peace, that does not sound like a good ending to me. Green seems like the best ending for my Sheps because they always strived towards peace for the galaxy even if they must sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

Makes sense if taken at face-value, but if the IT is correct, the star child will attempt to manipulate you and have the blue and green options seem to be the better choices.

And that is a another issue altogether.  If the IT is correct, than my Sheps have damned the entire galaxy.  That is why I am hesitating on my next playthrough till after the extended cut comes out.  Still,it seems too harsh to destoroy all synthetics after the Geth proved the starchild wrong. 

[signfang]

Because cranberries.

[Filurija]

The whole everybody is the same stuff is just creepying me out. What if after the Green Ending everybody will become like the Protean Emprire, you know when the Council Races find another species they force them to become unified because its better.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Despite being illogical, and in theory I think it would have saved the Reapers (organic/synthetic hybrids), and hence why it was being pushed forward by starchild. The reason why it is harder to achieve, makes no sense to me either, perhaps its the only way the cycle/universe is seen to continue, and it would in theory be the solution to all the problems held by the current eras.

[Alex_SM]

aries1001 wrote...
 
Bioware's take on this are that everyone being part synthetic and part organics will be the best of both worlds. And that this will prevent, they hope, future conflicts between organcis and synthetics. However, history has shown us, that, as easy as this, it won't be. 

It's a shame they didn't remember free will, self-determinism and all that stuff. 

Turning everyone into "whatever" the way is presented in the game would be the biggest crime ever commited. 

[metawanderer]

Filurija wrote...

The whole everybody is the same stuff is just creepying me out. What if after the Green Ending everybody will become like the Protean Emprire, you know when the Council Races find another species they force them to become unified because its better.

But even if everyone is part synthetic every race still has their racial characteristics.  From my understanding if you choose all paragon through ME 1-3, the council would still survive.  You would not have once race controlling everything like the Prothean Empire would. 

[Alex_SM]

metawanderer wrote...

I choosed Synthesis (green) ending because it was the most optimistic of three. My paragon Sheps were always against the Illusive Man's ideals about controlling the Reapers and my Sheps are not hypocrites. Red seems like a good ending but I could never exterminate the entire Geth race and EDI after they both showed their personality and for lack of a better word, their humanity towards other races. Even when Shep lives after the red ending I am remined what the Starchild said about it being a temporary peace, that does not sound like a good ending to me. Green seems like the best ending for my Sheps because they always strived towards peace for the galaxy even if they must sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

Free will and stuff. Seems to not matter anymore... 

[Suikoden]

metawanderer wrote...

beutelmarkus wrote...

metawanderer wrote...

I choosed Synthesis (green) ending because it was the most optimistic of three. My paragon Sheps were always against the Illusive Man's ideals about controlling the Reapers and my Sheps are not hypocrites. Red seems like a good ending but I could never exterminate the entire Geth race and EDI after they both showed their personality and for lack of a better word, their humanity towards other races. Even when Shep lives after the red ending I am remined what the Starchild said about it being a temporary peace, that does not sound like a good ending to me. Green seems like the best ending for my Sheps because they always strived towards peace for the galaxy even if they must sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

Makes sense if taken at face-value, but if the IT is correct, the star child will attempt to manipulate you and have the blue and green options seem to be the better choices.

And that is a another issue altogether.  If the IT is correct, than my Sheps have damned the entire galaxy.  That is why I am hesitating on my next playthrough till after the extended cut comes out.  Still,it seems too harsh to destoroy all synthetics after the Geth proved the starchild wrong. 

If the IT is correct, then I don't think any of the relays actually exploded - as the destruction option most likely only symbolizes Shepard overcoming the indoctrination attempt, while the blue/green options have him succomb to indoctrination.  This would be why he wakes up in the rubble of London after being hit with the beam.

One thing I only noticed recently was that when TIM causes Shepard to shoot Anderson, you hear both Anderson and Shepard groan, (which would make sense if you believe that Anderson is a representation in his mind that's actively fighting the indoctrination attempt).