294 réponses à ce sujet

[KennyAshes]

Tritium315 wrote...

KennyAshes wrote...

Just curious. Why do you hate a friend for making an awesome meal with bitter desert who is still feeding you?

Probably because I had to pay him 60 bucks for the meal and 10 for the salt. 

But it was us willing to spend 60 bucks for it and 10 for the salt while giving 'the friend' total freedom to cook something for us. If that friend in all his freedom cooked something for a lot of people thinking he'd do good with it in real life you'd probably mention to him that it was not good but you'd also would have padded him on the back and encouraged him to do better next time while pointing out where he went wrong.
There is a big difference between kicking 'the friend' down and continuing to kick him when he is down ,while he said he'd try to fix it so everyone can be happy, and the lather.
And I bet most fans of Mass Effect, Bioware and games in general have to admit that if 'our friend' keeps this level of gameplay, of emotions in games there is potential to bring games to a whole new level.
The best we can do is try to bring up constructive feedback and like that help expand the universe of Mass Effect in the lines of what is possible in a way as many people as possible will love it and keep loving it.

PS. i used the reference 'a friend' to pinpoint that we did put our trust in Bioware. And putting trust in something/someone usually is only done with friends.

[snugglecakes]

if u think about it the entire storyline for the entire saga is pretty darn weak especially if it all amounts to starbrat... People were all like "OHH MY GOD MASS EFFECT HAS THE GREATEST STORY IT RIVALS ANY OSCAR WINNING FILM OR BESTSELLER BOOK" UMmm noo.. noo it doesn't... the story is really weak if u think about it... THey just kinda Mask the fact that it's weak by having all these really detailed back stories about each race n all this codex and all this lure... they put all this detail into that to give the illusion that the story is good when if u look past all that smoke and mirrors and look at the main story line.... its really nuthin special... it just really comes down to "umm derpa derp um we come keel you every 50 thousand years umm derp cuz um um synthetics will always kill you so i'ma keel you wif synthetics um derpa derp."

Modifié par snugglecakes, 06 avril 2012 - 11:57 .

[dbt-kenny]

Well the FREE extended cut might help close down a few of the many plot holes. But it is not what I am asking for.
No pick a door ending, make my decisions in the game matter.

Hold The Line

[Thornquist]

DavidMW wrote...

Thornquist wrote...

1. The way fans are treating it.

Bioware deserves more faith from their biggest fans, not a constant stream of screaming & verbal abuse.

Yeah you are right, except they took our money. We gave them faith when they promised us our choices would change the ending. Check all the prerelease statements and then tell me to have faith.

Well, thats why they are releasing this FREE DLC. To show you that they listened.

Maybe the DLC will show better how your choices mattered in the end - maybe not? But alot of people here are still shooting down the content before even seeing it.

I think Bioware deserves more than that.

[ticklefist]

dbt-kenny wrote...

Well the FREE extended cut might help close down a few of the many plot holes. But it is not what I am asking for.
No pick a door ending, make my decisions in the game matter.

Hold The Line

That's exactly what they said they hope to accomplish with it. Now that can turn out to be another line of BS, but at least it's been stated.

[Fulgrim88]

KennyAshes wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

KennyAshes wrote...

Just curious. Why do you hate a friend for making an awesome meal with bitter desert who is still feeding you?

Probably because I had to pay him 60 bucks for the meal and 10 for the salt. 

But it was us willing to spend 60 bucks for it and 10 for the salt while giving 'the friend' total freedom to cook something for us. If that friend in all his freedom cooked something for a lot of people thinking he'd do good with it in real life you'd probably mention to him that it was not good but you'd also would have padded him on the back and encouraged him to do better next time while pointing out where he went wrong.
There is a big difference between kicking 'the friend' down and continuing to kick him when he is down ,while he said he'd try to fix it so everyone can be happy, and the lather.
And I bet most fans of Mass Effect, Bioware and games in general have to admit that if 'our friend' keeps this level of gameplay, of emotions in games there is potential to bring games to a whole new level.
The best we can do is try to bring up constructive feedback and like that help expand the universe of Mass Effect in the lines of what is possible in a way as many people as possible will love it and keep loving it.

PS. i used the reference 'a friend' to pinpoint that we did put our trust in Bioware. And putting trust in something/someone usually is only done with friends.

Let's just say we were promised our favorite Vegan Pizza (for 60bucks and another 10 for the cheese).

The pizza is delicious, we are positively devouring that thing, just to notice at the very last bite that he has been secretly putting in some meat.

Asked about why he would do that, knowing fully well that we hate meat, he shrugs and points out that this is his personal idea of how a good pizza should be like.

Edit: He then offers to clarify why he thinks that even vegan pizza can only benefit from a tasty dose of meat and appears to be seriously puzzled while you're still looking like you're about to puke

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 06 avril 2012 - 12:08 .

[shepskisaac]

Thread title should be changed to "Your #1 excuse to continue complaining"

[KennyAshes]

[/quote]Quoting:
Let's just say we were promised our favorite Vegan Pizza (for 60bucks and another 10 for the cheese).

The pizza is delicious, we are positively devouring that thing, just to notice at the very last bite that he has been secretly putting in some meat.

Asked about why he would do that, knowing fully well that we hate meat, he shrugs and points out that this is his personal idea of how a good pizza should be like.[/quote]

The thing is that he didn't make this pizza for you, nor for me, nor for Bob, Billy or Cletis, he made this pizza for all of us.
And some people would like the meat, some would hate the cheese, ...
Its impossible to please everyone or to take everyone into account when creating it. So they do what they think everyone will like to some degree.
Do you actually think they are trying to chase you away? I don't, because they are still a company trying to make money.
But if your friend would put so much effort into his cooking, day and night. And then gets shot down from all sites and sides, gets treathened by some people (who are associated with us... ME fans)  imagine how hard it must be.
Offcourse they will not admit they were wrong, even if they thought they were (but would you? I would not and if i had to admit i was wrong I would surely say 'take a hike'. While they are not saying that).
They are trying to reach us along the way.
I think that is respectworthy. Even if it might not be as pleasing as wished for most.

Modifié par KennyAshes, 06 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[xcomcmdr]

Leafs43 wrote...

 I'll start:

-Star kid is still in it.  He was the crux of most of the problems.

^This.

Also :
A/B/C ending.

[E_rik]

I think the reason I hate the ending the most is not because of how bad it was, but because the rest of the scenes in the game were so amazing and well done. I'm still convinced that the Tuchunka arc and Mordin's last sacrifice was the best portrayed and written parts of the series. The fact that we had things like that and then the ending just completely became **** made it harder to take.

Also, the blatant lies about "16" endings and how the ending is "your ending" and how "...you won't be able to name your ending with A, B, and C" contributed too. Not to mention damn starkid.

[ScotGaymer]

Thornquist wrote...

Well, thats why they are releasing this FREE DLC. To show you that they listened.

Maybe the DLC will show better how your choices mattered in the end - maybe not? But alot of people here are still shooting down the content before even seeing it.

I think Bioware deserves more than that.

I do agree that the fan reaction  to the announcement has been a little much. Or a lot much. But um I kinda get why; I mean from what the announcement says the "free DLC" isn't going to address whats actually wrong with the ending and is something that they are only slapping on the end to shut us all up.

I am going to wait and see what happens with it, maybe I will be wrong, maybe it will be great. But I don't see it.

[Fulgrim88]

KennyAshes wrote...


The thing is that he didn't make this pizza for you, nor for me, nor for Bob, Billy or Cletis, he made this pizza for all of us.
And some people would like the meat, some would hate the cheese, ...
Its impossible to please everyone or to take everyone into account when creating it. So they do what they think everyone will like to some degree.

Yup, and the promises they made leading up to the release seemed like they were aiming to do just that.
"We won't force people into a bespoke ending that everyone gets", "It will in no way be like the traditional endings where you can say wether you picked A, B or C" and so on.

What they chose to deliver though, can only be seen as a full 180 on these statements. And I have a hard time believing that they can't see that. Even if they think that the whole game was "the end", the crass consequences of the RGB choices render everything moot. So apart from very minor differences, it is the same ending-scenario for everybody.

Do you actually think they are trying to chase you away? I don't, because they are still a company trying to make money.

Of course I don't. But it doesn't matter wether it was their intention - what matters is that they are suceeding.

But if your friend would put so much effort into his cooking, day and night. And then gets shot down from all sites and sides, gets treathened by some people (who are associated with us... ME fans)  imagine how hard it must be.

I can see that, and there were times when I felt truly sorry for Bioware to have their work being handled like that.
However, the fan response has been overwhelmingly positive regarding everything BUT the ending.
Just as I would praise my friend for a great pizza, but still scold him for putting in the meat (for no apparent reason).
Plus, there are plenty of people at Bioware who see their hard work being shunned because of the ego trip of a chosen few  (those responsible for the ending). If anybody should feel sorry for ruining the triumph that ME3 could have been, it's (from what we know) Casey and Mark.

Offcourse they will not admit they were wrong, even if they thought they were (but would you? I would not and if i had to admit i was wrong I would surely say 'take a hike'. While they are not saying that).

Yes, I would.

Even if the feedback would have been mixed (which it really wasn't) I would acknowledge the points of people disliking it.
And if the mistake was obvious (like meat in a vegan pizza, or the ending of Deus Ex in a game called Mass Effect 3), I would grudgingly man up and admit it.
The fact that didn't, and would still rather paint us as entitled idiots, than swallow their pride is madding.

They are trying to reach us along the way.
I think that is respectworthy. Even if it might not be as pleasing as wished for most.

No, they're being awfully silent and deceptive, for the most part.

There was no dialogue at all (except maybe for Jessica Merizan) - and what little statements they've made over the past weeks has been mostly condescending, belitteling our concerns and feelings, ignoring our feedback.
Nothing to respect there

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 06 avril 2012 - 12:30 .

[chuckles471]

Shepard still gives up.

Bioware can't admit they F'up because they are "artists".

God child cannot be giving a emergency lobotomy with the carnifax.

The Joker cut scene before he runs will be someone over the radio saying "I'm getting high energy readingsfrom the crucible, everbody run".  Then the normandy flies down to earth picks up the 2 other companions, repairs their armour and bodies(so they can look nice when they get out) because reaper blasts make you armour disintigrate not your flesh. 

Modifié par chuckles471, 06 avril 2012 - 12:46 .

[tg0618]

KennyAshes wrote...

Just curious. Why do you hate a friend for making an awesome meal with bitter desert who is still feeding you?

Because we PAID good MONEY for the FULL meal to be good, not just the entree.

Modifié par Tony0618, 06 avril 2012 - 01:01 .

[KennyAshes]

Yes, I would.

Even if the feedback would have been mixed (which it really wasn't) I would acknowledge the points of people disliking it.
And if the mistake was obvious (like meat in a vegan pizza, or the ending of Deus Ex in a game called Mass Effect 3), I would grudgingly man up and admit it.
The fact that didn't, and would still rather paint us as entitled idiots, than swallow their pride is madding.

I am more than willing to admit that that makes you a better man than I am. And I do understand what you are saying, I am just trying to be man in the middle trying to see both sides of the story (which as you correctly noted is impossible due to one side lacking any dialogue)
But admitting they were wrong would lead to even more protest and fanreactions, which would lead to them having to bend or break. By changing the endings, just ending the franchise or well... ceising to exist.
But that would also set a dangerous precedence towards game designers in which they are basically forced to change the endings whenever more than 50% of the fans want it to be changed.

[Thornquist]

KennyAshes wrote...

Yes, I would.

Even if the feedback would have been mixed (which it really wasn't) I would acknowledge the points of people disliking it.
And if the mistake was obvious (like meat in a vegan pizza, or the ending of Deus Ex in a game called Mass Effect 3), I would grudgingly man up and admit it.
The fact that didn't, and would still rather paint us as entitled idiots, than swallow their pride is madding.

I am more than willing to admit that that makes you a better man than I am. And I do understand what you are saying, I am just trying to be man in the middle trying to see both sides of the story (which as you correctly noted is impossible due to one side lacking any dialogue)
But admitting they were wrong would lead to even more protest and fanreactions, which would lead to them having to bend or break. By changing the endings, just ending the franchise or well... ceising to exist.
But that would also set a dangerous precedence towards game designers in which they are basically forced to change the endings whenever more than 50% of the fans want it to be changed.

That, and the fact that we would mostly get "hollywood-cliche" endings most of the time, because developers wont dare to be innovative in fear of fan-backlash.

[sorentoft]

How about it not actually fixing anything? Narrative coherence will still be utterly shattered, even with the extended cut.

[Vixy]

IsaacShep wrote...

Thread title should be changed to "Your #1 excuse to continue complaining"

This.

[moonlightwolf]

 Starchild still replaces shepherd as the protagonist for the final five minutes we're still forced to accept his idiot logic and choose one of three choices ripped from deus ex. not sure if that one reason or two but it all comes down to starchild.

[Fulgrim88]

Thornquist wrote...

KennyAshes wrote...

Yes, I would.

Even if the feedback would have been mixed (which it really wasn't) I would acknowledge the points of people disliking it.
And if the mistake was obvious (like meat in a vegan pizza, or the ending of Deus Ex in a game called Mass Effect 3), I would grudgingly man up and admit it.
The fact that didn't, and would still rather paint us as entitled idiots, than swallow their pride is madding.

I am more than willing to admit that that makes you a better man than I am. And I do understand what you are saying, I am just trying to be man in the middle trying to see both sides of the story (which as you correctly noted is impossible due to one side lacking any dialogue)
But admitting they were wrong would lead to even more protest and fanreactions, which would lead to them having to bend or break. By changing the endings, just ending the franchise or well... ceising to exist.
But that would also set a dangerous precedence towards game designers in which they are basically forced to change the endings whenever more than 50% of the fans want it to be changed.

That, and the fact that we would mostly get "hollywood-cliche" endings most of the time, because developers wont dare to be innovative in fear of fan-backlash.

Still raises the question what's so innovative about three similiar, color coded endings railroading us into the same outcome?
I could live with their artistic vision *cough cough* of a Deus Ex / Matrix ripoff if they had put some actual work and variety into it.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 06 avril 2012 - 12:58 .

[PhotonMaze]

It sounds like they hadn't planned it.

[KennyAshes]

Still raises the question what's so innovative about three similiar, color coded endings railroading us into the same outcome?
I could live with their artistic vision *cough cough* of a Deus Ex / Matrix ripoff if they had put some actual work and variety into it.

In my humble opinion? They limited the choices and outcomes to guide us into the next game in the ME world.

[Thornquist]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Thornquist wrote...

KennyAshes wrote...

Yes, I would.

Even if the feedback would have been mixed (which it really wasn't) I would acknowledge the points of people disliking it.
And if the mistake was obvious (like meat in a vegan pizza, or the ending of Deus Ex in a game called Mass Effect 3), I would grudgingly man up and admit it.
The fact that didn't, and would still rather paint us as entitled idiots, than swallow their pride is madding.

I am more than willing to admit that that makes you a better man than I am. And I do understand what you are saying, I am just trying to be man in the middle trying to see both sides of the story (which as you correctly noted is impossible due to one side lacking any dialogue)
But admitting they were wrong would lead to even more protest and fanreactions, which would lead to them having to bend or break. By changing the endings, just ending the franchise or well... ceising to exist.
But that would also set a dangerous precedence towards game designers in which they are basically forced to change the endings whenever more than 50% of the fans want it to be changed.

That, and the fact that we would mostly get "hollywood-cliche" endings most of the time, because developers wont dare to be innovative in fear of fan-backlash.

Still raises the question what's so innovative about three similiar, color coded endings railroading us into the same outcome?
I could live with their artistic vision *cough cough* of a Deus Ex / Matrix ripoff if they had put some actual work and variety into it.

I agree, and thats a completely different question, which has a lot of good merit (Im not a fan of the endings myself).

Still, you have to atleast admit that the endings as they stand are something unexpected. Alot of endings deal with a heroic sacrifice, and I think many people were ready to face the fact that Shepard was going to die.

But they didnt just kill Shepard, they threw the galaxy into a completely new state, changing the Mass Effect Universe forever. If you think about Mass Effect as a franchise that they still wants to generate revenue from, ending the series in such a way is still bold.

[Jorkan]

If they can make the story flow better, I'll be happy.

[Fulgrim88]

KennyAshes wrote...

Still raises the question what's so innovative about three similiar, color coded endings railroading us into the same outcome?
I could live with their artistic vision *cough cough* of a Deus Ex / Matrix ripoff if they had put some actual work and variety into it.

In my humble opinion? They limited the choices and outcomes to guide us into the next game in the ME world.

I think that somewhat defeats the purpose of a trilogy, but I can agree. To lead into a sequel seems like the only reasonable idea behind that choice.

Which leads to agreeing with Thornquist, that if this is what they intended for the Mass Effect franchise, it was indeed "bold". Although I'd use a stronger word.