2037 réponses à ce sujet

[Vhalkyrie]

lillitheris wrote...
Edit2: I'm a programmer, both professionally and open-source. If I treated my customers or users this
way, I'd either be out of a job or out of customers.

I'm really, seriously getting upset with this.

Me too.

Also, changing the thread title?  Must have ruffled feathers over there.  Pretty lame not to have a follow up post in order to explain that it's not really the lighting/engine improvements (we've debunked that), they just don't want to do it.

Wulfram wrote...

If it's working as designed, it's not a bug. And I don't think the intent was to have an identical transfer.

In my industry, if it doesn't work the way the customer wants it, it doesn't work as designed.  The customer dictates how the product is supposed to work.

Holger1405 wrote...

From a Technical point of view it isn't a Bug. After the 1.02 the Face import works as intended.  (sole
exception the wrong face codes stored in the ME2 save games, that is a Bug.)

To recap quickly, PS3 people still get the default Shepard in some cases.  This is because they briefly went into customization in ME2, then clicked out of it and accepted the import, thus a facecode is generated, but it's the wrong face code.   There is no fix for this except deleting the facecode in Gibbed.  Except PS3 people can't used gibbed.  It is still broken, not fixed.  Thus far, they haven't even acknowledged that one.

The 1.02 patch only removed the broken error message.  If that is all it was intended to do, it succeeded.  In QA, this is an error handling fix, but the functional bug still exists (wrong facecode can be retained in certain circumstances).  The identical face import issue could be considered a 'cosmetic' issue, which tends to have the lowest of low priority to get fixed.

If they don't fix it, fine.  I'm glad for Lazarus and Gibbed that I got to play with the character as I wanted.  I will simply not purchase any future titles as it doesn't meet my minimum expectations.  Buying games like this comes out of my entertainment budget, which is lowest of low priority in my spending.

[Edit] Slight edit for snark.  Sorry, I'm upset.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 25 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[DaBozUK]

Wulfram wrote...

Look, my argument isn't that the Bioware import is good, just that it isn't bugged. Just like the ending isn't bugged, just bad.

It is bugged, as the slider positions post patch are incorrect.  Brown to black eyebrows, eye height different, lip size different.  They are bugs.

The subjective "does she look like she did" is harder to agree bugginess, but the ultimate test is this.  Do you recognise the person that you've known?  If someone you know was replaced with someone with similar features, similar hair, similar nose, similar eyes, would you recognise them as the same person?  No.

From ME1 to ME2, yes.  From ME2 to ME3 no.  Even with Lazarus I still don't recognise my shep, but I'm just going to put up with it.  Annoying as hell, but that's life.

[StarAce905-2]

Not a bug? Hardly. Even if you wanted to argue semantics. The face code the importer generates is incorrect. Not off by a long shot, but it is still incorrect.

After all, in ME3, they say the faces with the same face code in ME2 are different to their ME2 versions are because of different lighting, different textures and stuff, right? Then, if the ME2 -> ME3 importer generates the face code correctly, it should give the same face back in ME2 where lighting and textures are the same, right?

Behold:



What is this? Wrong hair colour? Wrong mouth shape?

Of course, a picture like this isn't proof enough, obviously, so for anyone who wants to try out: my savefile from ME2 that has no face code whatsoever

Import it to ME3, get code, insert back into ME2, see the magic.

[Vhalkyrie]

StarAce905-2 wrote...

Not a bug? Hardly. Even if you wanted to argue semantics. The face code the importer generates is incorrect. Not off by a long shot, but it is still incorrect.

What is this? Wrong hair colour? Wrong mouth shape?

Of course, a picture like this isn't proof enough, obviously, so for anyone who wants to try out: my savefile from ME2 that has no face code whatsoever

Import it to ME3, get code, insert back into ME2, see the magic.

Haha - I got Joker lips without the facecode, too.

Even 'cosmetic' issues are bugs. Translating incorrect eye heights/widths and mouth sizes are not intentional. Therefore, it is a bug.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 25 avril 2012 - 04:02 .

[StarAce905-2]

Yeah, an especially things like eyelashes being hidden deep in the face mesh? I doubt they designed eyelashes and later decided that only someone tinkering with the headmorph should get to see them.

[Vhalkyrie]

Also, there isn't a technical reason why Bioware couldn't make the translation.   The only reason why we have to do the hand editing after processing with Lazarus is because we are hacking the LODs with a 3rd party tool.  These faces are ME1/2 faces.  The additional vertices for animations doesn't change that, or make it impossible.   Some faces don't translate as well as others in Lazarus because it is not a native translation - it is a best guess.  Bioware, as the engine owners, are more capable of getting near 99% match. Certain faces in ME2 also had clipping issues with eyelids/eyelashes after import in ME1, but this was minor. There is zero plausible explanation that Bioware could not do the same for ME3, except that they chose not to.

Mine is not 100%, even after Lazarus.  It takes it a step further than I could go with my manual edits, but I have accepted this is the best I'm going to get.  The differences at this point are there, but acceptable.  Unfortunately, this was without the help of Bioware.  Can't give them any credit at all.  The 1.02 patch did nothing for me.  Fortunately I had a facecode, because without the facecode, the 1.02 patch made the translation worse.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 25 avril 2012 - 05:52 .

[Dimensio]

StarAce905-2 wrote...

Not a bug? Hardly. Even if you wanted to argue semantics. The face code the importer generates is incorrect. Not off by a long shot, but it is still incorrect.

After all, in ME3, they say the faces with the same face code in ME2 are different to their ME2 versions are because of different lighting, different textures and stuff, right? Then, if the ME2 -> ME3 importer generates the face code correctly, it should give the same face back in ME2 where lighting and textures are the same, right?

Behold:



What is this? Wrong hair colour? Wrong mouth shape?

Of course, a picture like this isn't proof enough, obviously, so for anyone who wants to try out: my savefile from ME2 that has no face code whatsoever

Import it to ME3, get code, insert back into ME2, see the magic.

Why so serious?

[StarAce905-2]

Even Joker looks better than that.

[DaJe]

Wow this is just pathetic, not fixing a big issue and then saying it's the "improved" lighting and shaders even after it has been proven to be wrong many times over. It doesn't get any more insulting than that.

[lillitheris]

Holger1405 wrote...

I  like this Thread to stay open, so can we please not insult anyone? Thank you.

Yes, I agree.

From a Technical point of view it isn't a Bug. After the 1.02 the Face import works as intended.  (sole exception the wrong face codes stored in the ME2 save games, that is a Bug.)

Yes, it is. The feature or user story they're implementing is “import your Shepard, the character you've possibly been playing since 2007”.

That feature is not working.

I know we build up a emotional bond regarding our Shepards, still this is about a Videogame character, imho it shouldn't be a reason to go hostile towards the very same People who gave us this character in the first place and made 3 extraordinary Games around her/him. 

The bug isn't a reason to get hostile. The response is. Like I said, if I treated customers this way, I'd be fired. Plain as that. Mind, I'm not advocating anyone losing their job, I'm saying this so that you understand how strongly I feel about the issue.

There is no in game fix for this. It's simple not Possible.

This is false. woodbyte and the others have proven that it is possible.

I'm not even asking that they fix it immediately. I'm asking that they acknowledge the bug, and put it in the dev pipeline.

[Vhalkyrie]

How this issue has been handled (including that awful ending) is the reason I am so disappointed with them. The same company that gave me this character and series that I loved torched and burned it. Usually I don't preorder games. I usually wait for the GOTY edition that is half priced, comes with a year worth of patches and usually a few of the DLCs free. There were two exceptions I've made in the past year - Skyrim and Mass Effect 3. I have no regrets about the former, and would do it again.  I thoroughly got my money's worth of entertainment out of that. The latter I could have waited a year, and would have experienced less let down.  Much of the game is brilliant, but there are a few glaring areas where details were scrapped or dropped.

Because I preordered, I'm now waiting to see if they adequately address the face issue, or fix the ending appropriately. If I waited a year, they either did or didn't, and there would be no expectations about it.

I would have thought the 3rd party option would make it more evident that this is more than possible.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 25 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[lillitheris]

By the by, returning to the hair clipping issue that I forgot about earlier. For me, at least, unmapping the vertices at the top of the head did fix the problem (unless I was imagining). The reason that the color looks similar, I think, is just that the ‘scalp’ has the base hair color (rather than being just skin) whereas the actual hair has the highlights to modify it.

Modifié par lillitheris, 25 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[Chris Priestly]

I tried to leave this thread open as a fan project so you could assist each other in customizing your faces. Since people would like it to be treated as a bug, as indicated by the title being changed back, it can be discussed in the technical support forums relevant to the platforms they are encountered on. This is how bugs are treated on the BSN and, as you point out this is a bug, this is how it will be dealt with.

Please feel free to restart this topic on teh appropriate technical support forum.


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