292 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibsn]

Op needed more Space Magic too be convincing

[Jackal7713]

KaeserZen wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

No the extended cut does not make our choices matter. It does not give the player an ending that is satisfying. In fact the whole AI child, red/blue/green thing is a blatant rip off of Deus Ex Machina/HR. Just a fresh coat of paint to make it seem like it's different when it is not.

And how do you know that ?

How do you know they are NOT going to show the galactic civilization being rebuilt, with or without new mass relays ?

How do you know they are NOT going to show the Normandy Crew being rescued down the road ?

How do you know they are NOT going to show the future of the Krogans, Quarians, Geth and other species ?

As I see it, RGB isn't the ending. It's the final choice you make that will be taken into accounts in the epilogues.

Check Jessica Merizan's twitter post, and see how we can get the happy ending, even based on these premises.

I think they wanted to showcase hope and freedom in the ending. But they failed, and everyone felt doom and loss.

I'm sorry but but Jesica isn't telling you the truth or the people at PAX where lying. Because their statements don't match up.

The PAX people said the extended cut was only adding cut scenes.

Jessica twitter post said you could get back together with the LI.

They just don't match up. So pick who is lying, because someone is.

[CronoDragoon]

Here's the thing: in order for the endings to be anything but soul-crushing, the relay problem needs to be fixed. They need to suggest that the either the current relays can be fixed or new interstellar waypoints built within MONTHS. The fact that a handful of people MIGHT be able to get home in a few DECADES through FTL is not nearly enough.

Also, the Normandy scene makes no sense. You just crash-landed after a huge explosion took your ship out, have no idea if the Reapers won or not, if Shepard is alive or not, etc etc etc, and everyone is looking hopeful?! I get the symbolism, but just because a scene has symbolism doesn't excuse the fact that what is actually going on in the scene makes zero sense.

[AIR MOORE]

Wow, I need to stop using my tablet to respond on here, that last post was filled with errors, and auto corrects... somewhat like the ending, and due to the fact my tablet is being finicky at the moment, I can't even go back and patch it all up... Oh well... if Bioware can do it with a game, I can do it with a post.


As an addendum... the relay issue (those were but a few questions)... not exhuastive. Add more questions to that one issue that needs to be responded to, tac on the fact there are easily 25+ issues just as important that are wrong with the end... put on the closure fact... You have a good 30minutes to an hour they are looking at minimum to fill in all the gaps cinematic wise, then add a book of epilogue. We are talking hours and hours of explaining from the same folks who couldn't make a coherent ending first go round. 

Modifié par AIR MOORE, 07 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[Jackal7713]

AIR MOORE wrote...

Wow, I need to stop using my tablet to respond on here, that last post was filled with errors, and auto corrects... somewhat like the ending, and due to the fact my tablet is being finicky at the moment, I can't even go back and patch it all up... Oh well... if Bioware can do it with a game, I can do it with a post.


As an addendum... the relay issue (those were but a few questions)... not exhuastive. Add more questions to that one issue that needs to be responded to, tac on the fact there are easily 25+ issues just as important that are wrong with the end... put on the closure fact... You have a good 30minutes to an hour they are looking at minimum to fill in all the gaps.

I'm sorry buddy but they aren't going to dump all that into the game because of artist integrity.

[AIR MOORE]

Jackal7713 wrote...

AIR MOORE wrote...

Wow, I need to stop using my tablet to respond on here, that last post was filled with errors, and auto corrects... somewhat like the ending, and due to the fact my tablet is being finicky at the moment, I can't even go back and patch it all up... Oh well... if Bioware can do it with a game, I can do it with a post.


As an addendum... the relay issue (those were but a few questions)... not exhuastive. Add more questions to that one issue that needs to be responded to, tac on the fact there are easily 25+ issues just as important that are wrong with the end... put on the closure fact... You have a good 30minutes to an hour they are looking at minimum to fill in all the gaps.

I'm sorry buddy but they aren't going to dump all that into the game because of artist integrity.

Exactly why it will flop... and to explain the endings we will still need a galaxy of space magic. 

[NvVanity]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Here's the thing: in order for the endings to be anything but soul-crushing, the relay problem needs to be fixed. They need to suggest that the either the current relays can be fixed or new interstellar waypoints built within MONTHS. The fact that a handful of people MIGHT be able to get home in a few DECADES through FTL is not nearly enough.

Also, the Normandy scene makes no sense. You just crash-landed after a huge explosion took your ship out, have no idea if the Reapers won or not, if Shepard is alive or not, etc etc etc, and everyone is looking hopeful?! I get the symbolism, but just because a scene has symbolism doesn't excuse the fact that what is actually going on in the scene makes zero sense.

The twitter post about Reaper tech in the OP and the fact the Protheans built the Conduit to me suggests that the Relays are perfectly capable of being rebuilt. Not entirely sure how the DLC will clarify that, preferably i'd like a Relay built out of Harbingers corpse that says "Humans pwn" on it.

The planet scene I don't get either. Perhaps they figured since there were explosions the Reapers are gone? I'm still wondering how they'll clarify that. Is the planet conveniently located by a former Relay hub that will most likely have a new one put into it once the galaxy figures out how to rebuild them? 

[Kadayi]

KaeserZen wrote...

When people heard the endings were not going to be changed, many if not most immediately understood that as : the endings will remain the same as they are now.

This is a dangerous assumption.

Nope. I'd probably say it's a reasonable assumption.

If they were going to change the endings they'd have said words to that effect. Something like: -

'In light of all the fan feedback we've received we are currently re-evaluating the present endings with a view to their narrative strengthes and weaknesse sand bringing them more in line with the established canon of the series, as well as exploring the possibility of alternative branches'

They didn't. You're grasping at straws I'm afraid.  

Modifié par Kadayi, 07 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[killnoob]

if you stop pushing, stop giving feedbacks or suggestions on how to improve the ending, all the efforts you guys made will be lost...

[CronoDragoon]

NvVanity wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Here's the thing: in order for the endings to be anything but soul-crushing, the relay problem needs to be fixed. They need to suggest that the either the current relays can be fixed or new interstellar waypoints built within MONTHS. The fact that a handful of people MIGHT be able to get home in a few DECADES through FTL is not nearly enough.

Also, the Normandy scene makes no sense. You just crash-landed after a huge explosion took your ship out, have no idea if the Reapers won or not, if Shepard is alive or not, etc etc etc, and everyone is looking hopeful?! I get the symbolism, but just because a scene has symbolism doesn't excuse the fact that what is actually going on in the scene makes zero sense.

The twitter post about Reaper tech in the OP and the fact the Protheans built the Conduit to me suggests that the Relays are perfectly capable of being rebuilt. Not entirely sure how the DLC will clarify that, preferably i'd like a Relay built out of Harbingers corpse that says "Humans pwn" on it.

The planet scene I don't get either. Perhaps they figured since there were explosions the Reapers are gone? I'm still wondering how they'll clarify that. Is the planet conveniently located by a former Relay hub that will most likely have a new one put into it once the galaxy figures out how to rebuild them? 

I really like Jessica as a person and think she is a great Community Manager, but she has no great insight into what happened in the endings, and later clarified that all these things she said yesterday were "implied" by the current endings, so they are not insights into the EC per se. Additionally, the general tone of the endings including the Stargazer scene suggest a complete restart for organic life, which suggests they never fixed the relays. Yeah, I'm taking the negative interpretation, but that viewpoint has more evidence than the positive one. I am more than happy to be proven wrong with a "clarification" from the EC, though!

[KaeserZen]

Jackal7713 wrote...

I'm sorry but but Jesica isn't telling you the truth or the people at PAX where lying. Because their statements don't match up.

The PAX people said the extended cut was only adding cut scenes.

Jessica twitter post said you could get back together with the LI.

They just don't match up. So pick who is lying, because someone is.

You can get back together with the LI in an additional cutscene, can't you ?

[KaeserZen]

Kadayi wrote...

KaeserZen wrote...

When people heard the endings were not going to be changed, many if not most immediately understood that as : the endings will remain the same as they are now.

This is a dangerous assumption.

Nope. I'd probably say it's a reasonable assumption.

If they were going to change the endings they'd have said words to that effect. Something like: -

'In light of all the fan feedback we've received we are currently re-evaluating the present endings with a view to their narrative strengthes and weaknesse sand bringing them more in line with the established canon of the series, as well as exploring the possibility of alternative branches'

They didn't. You're grasping at straws I'm afraid.  

You seem to imply that only altenate branches can provide happy endings or fit closer to the lore. I think that BioWare are completely able to tie in more their current ending, as well as provide them with a happy tone.

Additionnally, changing can mean different things : you change your car when you completely overhaul it, you change your car when you just add a rear spoiler and led lights, or you change your car when you trade it for another one.

Changing the endings are making something different. Changing isn't exchanging.

Moreover, when I wrote : the endings will stay the same, I don't think I was being clear enough. The endings are NOT choosing R, G or B. The endings are what happens AFTER choosing, basically the cutscenes. They said they are expanding them, so yes, technically, they are changing the endings.

We don't know what is about to be changed or kept. The point of my thread was to show how it was possible to have the current endings be the basis for a happy tone.

The fleets have survived. The worlds are not destroyed. Normandy has survived. Shepard has survived. Still a happier ending that Titanic.

[Applepie_Svk]

http://social.biowar...index/10906328 my little trollend, it doesn´t damage Starchild scene, it give us ansevrs, different endings and it support IT.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 avril 2012 - 02:17 .

[Lukanp]

I'm afraid the harm has already been done, both to the Mass Effect logical integrity and my trust in Bioware. Don't get me wrong, I think the fact that they are willing to act on this matter and provide us with additional free content is a step into the right direction, but I simply can not imagine how any amout of clarification would fix what is already broken beyond repair. The ending design goes against established lore as well as plain logic. Some of that stuff would have to be changed somehow, but from what understand developers have already stated that they're not removing any ingame content. It's a pitty since even just a few additional touches here and there would do wonders. Insted we'll probably get more of the same, and that's sadly not what we've been asking for. Hope I'm wrong though.

Modifié par Lukanp, 08 avril 2012 - 02:43 .

[KaeserZen]

http://social.biowar.../index/11154234

A very intereting take by a BioWare writer on why we should be hopeful for the endings, and what they intended for.
This is from the guy who wrote the Tuchanka bit btw.

And to be perfectly honest, these are paraphrases, but the thread has been brought to his attention.

[recentio]

It is the ideal response I'd hoped for. There was no way they were ever going to trash their ending. And they don't need to. Most plotholes can be closed by adding more scenes that show what happens to people and why. In the long run, the game will be better for it now that the whole writing team is involved.

[KaeserZen]

recentio wrote...

It is the ideal response I'd hoped for. There was no way they were ever going to trash their ending. And they don't need to. Most plotholes can be closed by adding more scenes that show what happens to people and why. In the long run, the game will be better for it now that the whole writing team is involved.

Indeed !

Even though most of the ending finale was not most of the fans would expect (I am personnaly disturbed and disappointed by the inclusion of the star child), I think this will make ME3 a satisfying game on its own.

I was a bit "meh..."-ed by the Collectors and the main plot of ME2, but I still thought it was a fantastic game. Let's fix ME3 to be the same !

[Tyrzun]

OP you obviously don't understand that extended cuts CANNOT fix the problems.

The existance of Star Child shatters ME 1 and ME 2.

This is how the Star Child utterly makes Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 useless.

Remember
he is the KING of the reapers and is on the Citadel.  He controls them.
 Why would he need Sovereign to come to the Citadel to activate the
Citadel portal to bring in the other Reapers?  He wouldn't!  He controls
it too, he brought it to the EARTH!  He moved the freaking thing.  So,
yeah his existance destroys all logic after half way through ME 1.

Ok you Sci-Fi people that still may not get the degree of how destructive
the Star Child angle really is need perhaps a different setting.

Imagine Star Trek for a moment, doesn't matter if it's Captain Kirk, Picard,
etc...  The Borg are trying to destroy the earth, it's the last stand of
humanity.  The series pain stakingly introduced us to the Borg and what
their REAL mission is, to assimilate everyone.  AKA the Reapers.  Now a
Pink Space Pony pops up at the pinacle of the finale battle and says
the Borg bring WAR and death to you to keep you from killing each other,
and then your own Borg creations kill you so I sent my Borg creations
to kill you first.  To save other organic life, because BORG life is
superior anyways... 

You say to Pink Space Pony  "Why not have
your BORG destroy our BORG after our BORG kill us to keep them from
killing other life, but while still weaker than your BORG?"  Uh.... 
stop looking behind the curtain of the all powerful OZ kid.

Your other choice is to turn all organics into BORG and there will be no more
organic life ever.  Yes, you Captain get to commit galactic genocide to
all living things against their will.  You're such a good guy if you do
this Captain!

Your last choice is to destroy my Borg and all of your AI friends, but your Borg will kill you and take our plac eventually.

You say "Ok so you are going to destroy all "software" in the universe,
because our friends the GETH are just software and make ALL ships
crippled in the process and set us back to the industrial age because all computer run on software?"

Pink Space Pony "Uh well, no your computer softare isn't going to be harmed nor your electronic equipment."

You say "What's the difference all of it is made up of code?"

Pink Space Pony says "Uh.... kid I told you to stop looking behind the curtain of the all powerful Oz"

There
is NO WAY they can ever make the Star Child or the 3 choices make any
sense at all.  It's illogical cannon breaking rubbish.

Oh and one
more EASY one is this.  Star Child says this has never happend before,
not sure what to do etc...  BUT I magically have 3 choices construced
behind me.  Go left and grab the handles... don't ask why they are
there, go up the ramp in the middle, or use you pistol to shoot this
magical spot that blows up the reapers... Yeah Star Kid just makes those
metal constructed areas up in 1 split second...

Modifié par Tyrzun, 09 avril 2012 - 06:49 .