292 réponses à ce sujet

[humansrsuperior]

iakus wrote...

humansrsuperior wrote...


This is what I'm thinking as well.  This is literally their last shot, and they MUST recognize the magnitude of what's going on.  In the words of Master Yoda, "Do, or do not.  There is no try."  They HAVE to make this work, or else it'll be a death stroke for them.  End of.  

The writers for this DLC better bring their A-game or they may lose a lot more than they gain with this.  This is Bioware's Omega IV Relay.

Mr Hudson may want to look into doing some loyalty missions for his staff:D

My point exactly!  (The Omega 4 relay lolol!!!)  And they better recognize they need their ENTIRE WRITING TEAM and PEER REVIEW  on this (maybe now that TOR is out they can get Drew Karpyshyn back on the project, that would go a long way), not one developer and one writer deciding to take it into their own hands.  <_<  If they are on their full A Game with this, they could do it.

I'm just not letting myself hope that much, tbh.  Don't want to be heartbroken yet again.  

[sirisaacx]

KaeserZen wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

This is the best point I've seen made on these forums in a long time. As many have pointed out, Mass Effect has NEVER been about beating the Reapers. Mass effect is about your companions, their struggle, and the galaxy at large. And yes, it seems like the ending destroys these things, but I don't think it does. It alters the status quo, sure, but it wouldn't be hard to put some sort of hopful spin on the events of the ending.

And yeah, the main plot of Mass Effect 3, and indeed the trilogy, will always suck, which is unfortunate. But hey ME2 had an awful main plot and I still loved that game. Because even through all the stupid railroading and human reapers, it gave us a satisfying conclusion involving the characters we knew and loved, and the galaxy we've become so attatched to.

So while the main plot will always suck, the game can be good in spite of that, provided they give us some sort of satisfying emotional context, I don't CARE about the reapers. I don't even care that the galaxy is irrevocably altered. I just need some sort of emotional payoff. THAT'S why we all hated the ending, first and foremost, And this Extended cut can fix that.

Salarian wisdom at its finest. !

It's still a shame though. I had such high hopes for this trilogy, and though the character writing is some of the best I've ever seen in video games (and in sci-fi in general) and the socratic excersizes just get deeper and more complex the more you think about them, it's hard to argue for the mass effect series as the definitive sci-fi universe of a generation with such a broken main plot. Still a fantastic series, especially (hopefully) with the new DLC, but it's sad to know what could have been.

[sammysoso]

OP makes reasonable argument, this is a rarity on internet forums, let us savor this thread.

[CJMissen]

So long as they're open to the input fans have given them so far as to what they are going to include in this extended cut, I'm fine with it.

However the problem is what they have said has implied that they have gotten the general message but have been otherwise unwilling to compromise on the actual issues to do with it, i'm talking godAIchild, I'm talking circular logic, I'm talking lack of real options in dealing with it, I'm talking promises that have still been broken.

All of how Bioware has handled this, from shutting down talk about the ending at PAX, to being evasive, to showing that yes they're willing to add to but not address fundumental issues with the ending itself, speaks to me of a PR stunt to get people to shut up, its a bandaid for a papercut they seem to be producing, not a splint for a fracture.

look, I understand that we should wait, and I plan to keep Holding the Damn Line until I'm Damn well SATISFIED with the justice they provide the conclusion of the series. this is how I'm doing it.

But allow me my skepticism; they've jammed the knife in once with the ending already, I don't want to see them twist that knife trying to justify and explain it all away when all they're doing is trying to mask the smell of crap, generally speaking doesn't stop it from being crap.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but it keeps slapping me in the face the way they handle all this. speaks to me of arrogance and manipulation, plus a good deal of stonewalling. Announce but no room for discussion? come on...

okay, sorry, I'm breathing, calm down. maybe, the ending DLC clarification will work wonders, maybe, but until I see it I'm not convinced, they've lost my trust and only actions backing up their words will do anything to win it back. They've got a long way to go.

[KaeserZen]

Lendorien wrote...

Given that Bioware has consistently harped on the Artistic Integrity thing since the beginning and apparently had no problem with lying about the way they were doing the ending in the prerelease interviews, is it any wonder I'm taking this all with a grain of salt?

How to you keep the artistic integrity of the end if you change it?  It's not going to change. The Starchild will still make you make 3 choices. You'll still have the "reapers/destroy organics to save organics" circular logic and the relays being blown to bits. They plainly have said they are extending the end with additional cut scenes.  So, they'll lessen the colorful explosions and show how the normandy leaves the battle and rescues your dead companions.

Whoop-do-doo. The end will be completely out of context in terms of mechanics and lore of the rest of the series.

While I appreciate that people see Bioware's announcement as some sort of victory, I see it as a cop-out and them doing the minimum they need to in order to make the fan out-cry go away.

I beg to differ. This initiative gives them an opportunity to tie in the endings with the lore, for the clarification and the closure. Some things will remain "Meh..." like the Star Brat's logic, of course, but now BioWare can not only tie everything back in context AND bring closure using the current endings as new grounds.

It's possible the current endings keep the Normandy stranded, and aren't hopeful. It's as possible that they manage to save everyone, albeit without the Mass Relays.

[GBJ13]

There are plenty of ways Bioware could have handled this if they wanted a collaborative venture with the fans. The could have put up polls and had contests. They could have at least had some chance for fans to ask questions directly to the developers/writers. They didn't. Can you point to one substantial thing Bioware did to engage its fans who were unhappy to the ending other than this forum? Bioware went dark. Whether this was a result of shock over the reaction, a PR strategy, or some other motivation, it's hard to say.

All the effort to improve the ending came from the fans. Bioware has done very little to defend those fans against some pretty nasty attacks in the media. In fact, Bioware made a point to draw attention to isolated incidents of egregious conduct. Those incidents deserve scorn, but how about a little credit. The Retake Movement raised over 80k in charitable contributions. I don't know how fans could have been more constructive than raising money for charity.

I am sympathetic to what you're saying. My problem is more "How?" There are a hosts of interesting threads on ways to fix the ending, from a fan generated epilogue machine, to whole threads dedicated to alternative ending ideas, to fantastic videos on IT. Fans have been really, really constructive in trying to help Bioware. Bioware announced they were "keeping" the ending. That didn't really leave a lot of room to "collaborate" further.

[KaeserZen]

humansrsuperior wrote...

iakus wrote...

humansrsuperior wrote...


This is what I'm thinking as well.  This is literally their last shot, and they MUST recognize the magnitude of what's going on.  In the words of Master Yoda, "Do, or do not.  There is no try."  They HAVE to make this work, or else it'll be a death stroke for them.  End of.  

The writers for this DLC better bring their A-game or they may lose a lot more than they gain with this.  This is Bioware's Omega IV Relay.

Mr Hudson may want to look into doing some loyalty missions for his staff:D

My point exactly!  (The Omega 4 relay lolol!!!)  And they better recognize they need their ENTIRE WRITING TEAM and PEER REVIEW  on this (maybe now that TOR is out they can get Drew Karpyshyn back on the project, that would go a long way), not one developer and one writer deciding to take it into their own hands.  <_<  If they are on their full A Game with this, they could do it.

I'm just not letting myself hope that much, tbh.  Don't want to be heartbroken yet again.  

Extending the Cut would require passing through the Retake Fans. No dev has ever returned from doing so.

We need a leader, and surround him with the toughest, the brightest, the deadliest writers we can find.

[sirisaacx]

KaeserZen wrote...

I beg to differ. This initiative gives them an opportunity to tie in the endings with the lore, for the clarification and the closure. Some things will remain "Meh..." like the Star Brat's logic, of course, but now BioWare can not only tie everything back in context AND bring closure using the current endings as new grounds.

It's possible the current endings keep the Normandy stranded, and aren't hopeful. It's as possible that they manage to save everyone, albeit without the Mass Relays.

Interesting. The star brat's logic is actually one of my favorite things about the ending. I feel it's misplaced, and it shouldn't have been the ENDING dilemma (it gives it too much importance), but I like the questions it poses. His solutions were... flawed... at best, but it's definately a conundrum. Synthetic life is superior to us. It can improve it's intelligence and will inevitably have the ability threaten organic life in the universe one day if allowed to spread unchecked. Should we put blind faith in them that even after their intellect is vast comparatively to our own, that they will remain benevolent? Or should we wipe them out now while we still can?

[Domanese]

KaeserZen wrote...

Awesome text wall of awesomeness.

The OP is correct with his first statement. Whether yer in the IT camp, The Re-take camp or something else entirely this is definitely a good sign. They're extending the ending and giving us some needed closure. It's our job to give them the feedback they'd need now so that we are left satisfied. We now have something substantial to work with and this is a fair compromise to boot. I say we do not squander this opportunity. 

Modifié par Domanese, 06 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[Hudathan]

OP has renewed my faith in the community more than anything.

Also, the press release stated that the purpose behind both clarification and closure is to make the endings "more personalized for each player." If you're someone who wanted to see more of your war assets in action or different variations in surviving characters/races/planets, then this is your chance to stay vocal so that Bioware knows under certain terms what the player base means when they want their choices to be reflected in the ending. There are many possibilities and they are certainly putting aside enough time to make sure this isn't a rushed patch.

sirisaacx wrote...

This is the best point I've seen made on these forums in a long time. As many have pointed out, Mass Effect has NEVER been about beating the Reapers. Mass effect is about your companions, their struggle, and the galaxy at large. And yes, it seems like the ending destroys these things, but I don't think it does. It alters the status quo, sure, but it wouldn't be hard to put some sort of hopful spin on the events of the ending.
And yeah, the main plot of Mass Effect 3, and indeed the trilogy, will always suck, which is unfortunate. But hey ME2 had an awful main plot and I still loved that game. Because even through all the stupid railroading and human reapers, it gave us a satisfying conclusion involving the characters we knew and loved, and the galaxy we've become so attatched to.

So while the main plot will always suck, the game can be good in spite of that, provided they give us some sort of satisfying emotional context, I don't CARE about the reapers. I don't even care that the galaxy is irrevocably altered. I just need some sort of emotional payoff. THAT'S why we all hated the ending, first and foremost, And this Extended cut can fix that.

For those people maybe, not for me. Defeating the Reapers and avoiding total annhilation was always my primary concern. When Harbinger hit all of us with his beam I didn't even look back to check for survivors. I was focused on my ultimate goal because all of us were expendable in the grand scheme, and the ending of the story for me ceased to be about us as individuals and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Modifié par Hudathan, 06 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[sirisaacx]

Hudathan wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

This is the best point I've seen made on these forums in a long time. As many have pointed out, Mass Effect has NEVER been about beating the Reapers. Mass effect is about your companions, their struggle, and the galaxy at large. And yes, it seems like the ending destroys these things, but I don't think it does. It alters the status quo, sure, but it wouldn't be hard to put some sort of hopful spin on the events of the ending.
And yeah, the main plot of Mass Effect 3, and indeed the trilogy, will always suck, which is unfortunate. But hey ME2 had an awful main plot and I still loved that game. Because even through all the stupid railroading and human reapers, it gave us a satisfying conclusion involving the characters we knew and loved, and the galaxy we've become so attatched to.

So while the main plot will always suck, the game can be good in spite of that, provided they give us some sort of satisfying emotional context, I don't CARE about the reapers. I don't even care that the galaxy is irrevocably altered. I just need some sort of emotional payoff. THAT'S why we all hated the ending, first and foremost, And this Extended cut can fix that.

For those people maybe, not for me. Defeating the Reapers and avoiding total annhilation was always my primary concern. When Harbinger hit all of us with his beam I didn't even look back to check for survivors. I was focused on my ultimate goal because all of us were expendable in the grand scheme, and the ending of the story for me ceased to be about us as individuals and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Interesting. But ask yourself why you care so much about defeating the reapers? For me, at least, it's not because they're evil. It's because they're threatening things I care deeply about. All the major and minor characters and the fantastic lore Bioware has created. 

If not for them, if you were saving some nameless, faceless galaxy, would you really invest so much of yourself into the game? I guess my point was, and maybe we still see this differently, people want to save the things they love about the galaxy, not the galaxy itself. That's just some nebulous, abstract idea. And this DLC gives us a chance to feel like what we did affected the things and people we were fighting for. 

[KaeserZen]

I would like to take this opportunity to warmly think the participants in this thread. You are the ones giving me faith in the community again, for all the enlightened and smart exchanges occurring here.

You won't let fear compromise who we are, and that is only what matters !

Keep up the posts !

[humansrsuperior]

KaeserZen wrote...

humansrsuperior wrote...

iakus wrote...

humansrsuperior wrote...


This is what I'm thinking as well.  This is literally their last shot, and they MUST recognize the magnitude of what's going on.  In the words of Master Yoda, "Do, or do not.  There is no try."  They HAVE to make this work, or else it'll be a death stroke for them.  End of.  

The writers for this DLC better bring their A-game or they may lose a lot more than they gain with this.  This is Bioware's Omega IV Relay.

Mr Hudson may want to look into doing some loyalty missions for his staff:D

My point exactly!  (The Omega 4 relay lolol!!!)  And they better recognize they need their ENTIRE WRITING TEAM and PEER REVIEW  on this (maybe now that TOR is out they can get Drew Karpyshyn back on the project, that would go a long way), not one developer and one writer deciding to take it into their own hands.  <_<  If they are on their full A Game with this, they could do it.

I'm just not letting myself hope that much, tbh.  Don't want to be heartbroken yet again.  

Extending the Cut would require passing through the Retake Fans. No dev has ever returned from doing so.

We need a leader, and surround him with the toughest, the brightest, the deadliest writers we can find.

Hahaha YES ROFL you guys are awesome.    (That leader needs to be NOT CH or MW alskdjflaksjdfjslf).  Seriously Bioware needs to take a page out of their own game.  

[sirisaacx]

I'm bumping this awesome thread.

[bowery tuff]

Hey OP! You? I like you. I've also thrown a few back. Does that matter? Absolutely not. What does matter is that you make sense. I may have stared at the screen with my mouth agape followed by a "COME ON!" after the ending but I want to at least give this extension a chance before declaring it a failure. As I've said before, I'm keeping some faith in the team that gave me everything before that ending. Everything leading up to that was pretty awesome.

Modifié par bowery tuff, 06 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
Agreed. There is quite a lot Bioware can do with this new DLC. The core of the ending sequence (the starchild scene and the three options for the final choice) will stay, but it might be expanded, put into context and explained better, while consequences might be adjusted, and where outcomes are ambiguous they might want to put a positive spin on it by the added scenes.

And LOL at the Omega-4 relay comparison. Well, here as then it doesn't take a lot of thought to make everyone survive....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[KaeserZen]

sirisaacx wrote...

I'm bumping this awesome thread.

Thank you good sir, I couldn't do it on my own.

I need to be surrounded by a shock crew of volunteers !

[sirisaacx]

KaeserZen wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

I'm bumping this awesome thread.

Thank you good sir, I couldn't do it on my own.

I need to be surrounded by a shock crew of volunteers !

No problem. So tell me, is there anything you DID like about the ending? (we'll make it since, say, landing on Earth, but especially starkid and beyond)

[Savber100]

Agreed.

I felt the ideas behind the endings were great marred by god-awful execution.

As fans, the RetakeME3 movement along with the remaining fans need to make sure Bioware hits the key parts in repairing the endings.

And shut up about the "you can't polish the turd"... It's more like a turd-covered jewel in which we need to dig deep to uncover it anyways..

For starters, give us more cinematics that show how the battle was different due to our choices. Hell give us options on similar to the Suicide mission in deciding the fate of the battle. 

Either confirm the indoctrination theory or give us a very substantial scene in which everything is explained to the letter. 

Someone should send the list of plotholes found to Bioware... PM it to Priestly or something. 

Modifié par Savber100, 06 avril 2012 - 07:50 .

[tufy1]

I've only found out about the "extended cut" ending a few minutes ago, which shows just how much attention I've been paying to ME3 lately (if I was interested in it, I'd know at most half an hour after the info was released).

In my opinion, having a closed ending is not necessary. If you look at, say, Star Wars, you don't learn whether Han and Leia lived happily ever after, if you look at Blade Runner, you don't even know for sure whether Deckard is trully human, yet that doesn't stop them from having cult status and a whole legion of followers. If they left threads open for Garrus, Liara, whatever, then that might generate fan content or allow free development of the universe in the future, which is actually positive for the EA and for players - we get more content and they can charge more money for it.

The biggest problem I see in the ending is thus that is just doesn't make sense. If they wrapped it up at Anderson and Shepard and showed the explosion, it would be fine, then the whole Assignment: Earth would effectively be "the ending". Unfortunately, by adding the starchild, London became "just another mission" and the ending was those last 15 minutes. I made a comparison on another forum to Blade Runner - imagine if in the final scene, a nuke out of nowhere would destory the whole LA and then camera would show Rachel watching sunset somewhere in Nevada. That's essentially what ME3 ending did - it completely ignored the rest of the game and put a whole new premise into the story, while at the same time introducing critical inconsistencies to what was already known (Normandy in battle, crew members on the ground).


in other words, while those last 15 minutes exist in its current form, it will be extremely hard, if not impossible to end Mass Effect 3 in any rational way. I remain hopeful, but until I see a viable solution, EA and Bioware won't see my money. I've learnt my lesson, not to believe in false promises. No more "preorders" from me, ever.

Modifié par tufy1, 06 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[SaladinDheonqar]

Unfortunately, my capacity to have faith in Bioware is all but gone. They've already demonstrated that they're not willing to listen and will stick by their 'art'. What makes you think they'll take on anything the community says about the extention? They're basically saying we're misunderstanding their vision and need things better explained to us, despite all of the non-sensical writing and gaping plot holes we've pointed out. How will our input count for anything if they can't even acknowledge that? I think it's clear their intention is to hope the outrage has died down in a few months for us to be appeased by whatever they throw at us. I don't know whether to envy you, or pity you, for still having belief in Bioware.

[Jackal7713]

I'm sorry, but Bioware really insulted you all in the blogpost about the extended cut. Yet your going to over look what they said there and in their actions toward you in the past because of free DLC that adds cinematics, etc.

I really feel for all of you willing to put up with such abuse.

But if your willing to do this to yourselves, and not have some kind of self respect, its really about who you are.

Modifié par Jackal7713, 06 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[M0keys]

I just want to know that Patrick Weekes and John Dombrow are helping with the endings. That might actually settle my spirits. Let the guys who did Tuchanka, Rannoch and Grissom Academy take over. They're some seriously cool froods who know where their towels are!

[Vexia2070]

Lets keep this discussion going please.

[Jackal7713]

Why would you want to keep this discussion going? The majority of posts in here are people wanting more abuse from people they paid.

Its the saddest thing I have seen all week.