235 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

DayusMakhina wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

TomY90 wrote...

looks nice but on PC performance vs Console performance I do say its a good thing for PC gamers that console gamers slow down the increase in computing power required to play such games.

for the simple reason of accessibility and cost because if we had to constantly improve our PC's (every year to every month) just to be able to play the newest games on our PCs.

whereas with consoles around you really only need to improve your PC once every three years (roughly) to be able to play the newest games smoothly on PC. (this is a vast saving compared to the amount of improvements needed with consoles)

I do say yes consoles are slowing down the performance requirements of games but thats a good thing when you think of it for the consumer.

Myth

In the last 20 years, I've had..... about a handfull of PC systems, all systems I would consider gaming rigs when purchased (aka somewhat expensive). I never experienced being unable to actually play a game due to my system being outdated, and only upgraded when I felt like it and had a surplus on my acount. The latest one, the one I am using to write this post, I got somewhere between a year and two years ago. I got it customrigged so it was prepared to get a SLI hookup later on, but got purchased with a single gfx-card. I've yet to feel the need for actually upgrading to that SLI setup by adding a additional gfx card because I haven't yet run into a game I couldn't run maxed out on all settings...

How does that work for your "every year to every month" line of nonsense?

And that's not even touching on the subject that consoles are limiting gamedesign in ASIDE actual graphics.

In other words, you should educate yourself better on this subject.

So aggressive, yet your response completely ignores the key aspect of his post.

"for the simple reason of accessibility and cost because if we had to constantly improve our PC's (every year to every month) just to be able to play the newest games on our PCs."

He's not saying that right now you need to update your computer every month/year so your paragraph about how he is incorrect is just flat out irrelevant. He's saying that if consoles weren't holding back what developers were capable of doing (in other words if they designed for the highest spec computers) then in time as that process picks up speed with more and more developers pushing the envelope a PC user would have to update far more regularly. That's not something you can say is right or wrong because it's speculation.

That said, yes you can say that games would include settings to allow for lower spec computers to play, but if the advancement is so progressive then even that wouldn't be enough.

and you ignored my reference of time.

When I started using PCs, consoles and pcs were 2 distinctly different markets, heck consoles at the time couldn't even dream of doing what pcs were capable of.

I've experienced the time period while your horror scenario was true. And your horror scenario is vastly exagerated. When I was gaming at the most back then, I would consume a handfull of games a month, all store bought and some of the newest releases. I NEVER felt I couldn't play a game with my system despite not upgrading more than every few years (Only time I felt I actually ought to get an upgrade, was when 3dfx made their 'revolutionary' 3d cards which opened up a whole new era of gaming).

[s.nebulous]

I have a gaming computer, but for the most part I have moved from the computer to consoles as my preference. <shrug> sorry. It is hard to describe why I find console gaming more relaxing and enjoyable, But better graphics and loading times apparently have little to do it.

I went through an existential crisis of sorts when I was finding this out for myself.

[Cainne Chapel]

Mettyx wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

ah this timeless debate eh?

This is not a debate, just like evolution vs creationism  is not a scientific debate but denialism due to marginal deluded groups who didn't have proper education and critical thinking skills.

No its different in that fact that Consoles and PCs usually have different types of demographics.

Now as I'm a fan of both, and game on both, I still prioritize my gaming on consoles more.

For one, I use my PCs mainly for non gaming purposes a majority of the time.  Movie streaming, word processing, writing, etc.
and I switch back and forth at any given time between my consoles and PC.

Now my PC looks a lot better of course thanks to my SLI set up, and I game and what not from the couch for both.  But I do spend more dedicated gaming time on my consoles for a number of reasons.

So personally one is not better than the other to me and I couldnt live without either.  So the debate is MOOT to me.

The reason however, why consoles outstrip PCs of course, is because they have a more dedicated gamer market and have for years unfortunately, so console games get the priority from the big companies, now that doesn't mean there isn't awesome stuff out there for PCs, but as of late it is few and far between and thats sad to see.

But either way I dont think one is inherently better than the other, to believe so is a bit silly

[Nyctyris]

PaddlePop wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I used to be a PC gamer but then I got better.

I used to be a PC gamer but then I got married!

(True story, also PC gamers have to be the worst kind of gamer. They're not glad to be part of a greater gamer fraternity, and would rather show off their latest hardware, which incidentally is out of date the second they bought it, and then it's back onto the upgrade hamster wheel. Where the focus should be on the games, gameplay and actually having fun, with PC gamers it's really a "how big is my ****" competition.)

??????

I'm married, and my partner and I are both primarily PC gamers, although he does also own a PS3.

It has nothing to do with being elitist, and everything to do with practicality. I don't like Xbox controllers, my hands are small and the controllers are uncomfortably fat-feeling. I resent having to pay for XBL ontop of internet, which should be free (hence, PS3 and PC). Finally, until they put out a console that can run Adobe Master Collection and all the other programs I need to continue being freelance self-employed, consoles are just (for me) a useless extra, whereas my PC does everything I need for work and allows me to game. At least the PS3 can play blueray discs I guess.

I like tinkering; I'm not an IT person but PC building is fairly unadventurous, and I really enjoy modding games. To me the appeal of games like Skyrim is getting to tweak. Just part of the fun. Once every four years or so we upgrade. In my partner's case, he also loves RTS games, as well as MMOs, and those are simply untenable on a console. How is having a genre preference being juvenile or stuck up? 

Nothing against console gamers, it just doesn't make sense for me to have one. I do find it disheartening that features are removed or altered to make worse (going both ways) but that's a problem with how porting is handled rather than consoles/pcs/the games themselves. 


speaking of which, is there a collected mod sit for these things somewhere? I'm having trouble finding a good spot to get ME3 mods lol. 

Modifié par Nyctyris, 06 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[abaris]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Why do PC gamers fanbois not get it? (NOTE: I AM a PC gamer, but understand and use consoles as well).

It's not about how much better a PC can look or even play a game...it's minimizing the development costs (and the support costs afterwards).

IT'S FINANCIAL NOT TECHNICAL....get over it.

I guess many of us do get that.

But there's no getting over it, since the prices for the "finished" product don't exactly follow the lowered production costs or standards. In fact, products tend to get more expensive whilst their overall quality is in decline.

Only an enemy of their wallet can be content with that or actually endorse that kind of development.

[kalle90]

What exactly does this have to do with ME3?

Anyway most of my PC gametime goes for stuff you can find on GoG or emulated SNES/PS1 era games so I couldn't care less about those more realistic scratches on armor.

[abaris]

kalle90 wrote...

What exactly does this have to do with ME3?

ME3 is the latest instalment of the lowest common denominator trendsetters.

The admitted to cut out animations because of that, textures are visibly attrocious in certain instances and the Gods of gameplay may know how many shortcuts had to be taken to make it fit for the requirements of the lowest platform in use.

That's why it is ME related.

[s.nebulous]

Whatever, I thought we were all gamers.
I’m not going to move back to PC because you feel we are holding you back. I’m not even sure you would get the gaming experience you are expecting if consoles where cut out of the picture.

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

abaris wrote...

I guess many of us do get that.

But there's no getting over it, since the prices for the "finished" product don't exactly follow the lowered production costs or standards. In fact, products tend to get more expensive whilst their overall quality is in decline.

Only an enemy of their wallet can be content with that or actually endorse that kind of development.

What I (or you or the PC gaming elite) endorse or support has NOTHING to do with this issue.  It's simple math that will not be undone by a bunch of self-centered PC geeks pointing out how inferior Console ports are.  I am NOT happy about it, but I DO understand it from a buisness point of view.

I think the best PC gamers can hope for at this stage is somehting like is happening with Borderlands 2.  They are building a console game, porting it over to PC and then putting in series of PC only features and modificiations to enhance the PC version.  Gearbox seems to understand that slighting PC gamers is bad and that they can do something about it for a minimal additional investment in the development cycle.

Sort of MMOs or bleeding edge PC tech demo type games (Crysis, some other shooters), developing specifically and directly for the PC is a thing of the past.  Sorry to say it again, but get over it. 

Note that does not mean I think this is the best path for my PC gaming or even that I like it, but it's not something I can change...the console genie has been out of the bottle for several decades and the only reason I see that PCs are still a viable gaming platform is how they already have built in transport for digital distribution (something developers LOVE the idea of for both production cost economic and DRM reasons).

On the other hand the PC game sales numbers continue to lag orders of magnitude behind the console sales potential.  This could actually be altered in the PC platform favor when the next gen consoles come out with digital only distribution, requirement for always on internet connection and built in DRM to prevent piracy and used games / reselling of games (that is a thing that WILL happen).

Still, it will always be easier to turn on the console and just PLAY the game via console than deal with all the issues PC gamers have to deal with on a regular basis.  EX.  I spent an hour last night trying to figure out WHY Skyrim wouldn't run...hell, STEAM said the TESV.EXE file was missing!   After checking the files and clearing cache, etc., STEAM downloaded it's udpates and I was able to start the game.  PC gaming can be a hastle that the vast majority of causal gamers out there are NOT going to ever accept.  It's a sad fact, but game companies care about the tens of millions of them long before they consider an animation issue mentioned by a dozen members of these forums...

Modifié par Br0th3rGr1mm, 06 avril 2012 - 03:14 .

[Tangster]

I'd like my HD texture pack, a la DAII and Skyrim plox, if it's not too much bother, the PC needs proper AA and AF options, DAII had the option to use 8x AA and 16x AF, why doesn't ME3? Why must I force AA from NCP?

While we're at it I'd like it if no other companies decide to use the magic button design that even console gamers find frustrating. Both game pads and keyboard/mouse have more than 3 buttons.

Finally, if devs are going to bother creating animations, then find they don't fit on the console, could they please leave it on the PC versions?

Modifié par Tangster, 06 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[dayvancowboy1]

Mettyx wrote...

We could have had a game that looks like this cinematic by now if it weren't for consoles.

dl link

i'm so split on ME2's cinematic trailer. on one hand it's extremely badass and fun to watch, on the other hand literally 60% of the game is spoiled.

consoles are like apple phones, they don't have mind blowing specs but they offer a completely automated and comfortable consumer experience. consles are iOS, PC is Droid. nuff said.

the truth is this will never change, consoles will always exist and as long as they do i'll always prefer them because they get more love than the ports the PC is getting. worse graphics, better everything else. buying PC hardware so expensive when games are made for consoles is wasting you're money away.

sincerely,

a former PC gamer with a killer rig that has realized the painful truth.

[Mettyx]

Tangster wrote...

Finally, if devs are going to bother creating animations, then find they don't fit on the console, could they please leave it on the PC versions?

Still waiting for an official response on that one...

Modifié par Mettyx, 06 avril 2012 - 03:18 .

[Tangster]

dayvancowboy1 wrote...

Mettyx wrote...

We could have had a game that looks like this cinematic by now if it weren't for consoles.

dl link

i'm so split on ME2's cinematic trailer. on one hand it's extremely badass and fun to watch, on the other hand literally 60% of the game is spoiled.

consoles are like apple phones, they don't have mind blowing specs but they offer a completely automated and comfortable consumer experience. consles are iOS, PC is Droid. nuff said.

the truth is this will never change, consoles will always exist and as long as they do i'll always prefer them because they get more love than the ports the PC is getting. worse graphics, better everything else. buying PC hardware so expensive when games are made for consoles is wasting you're money away.

sincerely,

a former PC gamer with a killer rig that has realized the painful truth.

Graphics like that are not possible. That's based on ray-trace technology and there's a reason why it's pre-rendered.
If it was possible, then companies like Crytek/Epic/CDProjekt would probably have done it.

As it stands, Crysis(original and warhead), Metro 2033, Witcher 2, BF3(on a PC) are the abosolute cream of what can be achieved with current PC hardware.

[Doodledorf]

Pretty sure they frown on console wars and platform wars on here. There was always going to be difference regarding quality of graphics between console and PC.

The good element about PC is over time it is resolvable via mods. It is not a major issue in first place given can be resolved by fans instead of spend vast amounts of resources in development.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 06 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[Dreadcall]

Doodledorf wrote...

Pretty sure they frown on console wars and platform wars on here. There was always going to be difference regarding quality of graphics between console and PC.

The good element about PC is over time it is resolvable via mods. It is not a major issue in first place given can be resolved by fans instead of spend vast amounts of resources in development.

There are many things that could be done to improve PC ports without spending vast amount of resources. Many studios create the the textures in high resolutions to beging with, for example, then dumb it down so the consoles can handle it. Or something simple and ME3 related, how much resources and time would it have taken to give an option in the PC port to map cover/sprint/interact to different key? Not that much. EA (and most other publishers) just won't spend a single cent more on the port than it needs to as long as it deems the players will put up with it. And i would probably do the same thing in their place as long as people don't vote it down with their wallets.

[Doodledorf]

Dreadcall wrote...

Doodledorf wrote...

Pretty sure they frown on console wars and platform wars on here. There was always going to be difference regarding quality of graphics between console and PC.

The good element about PC is over time it is resolvable via mods. It is not a major issue in first place given can be resolved by fans instead of spend vast amounts of resources in development.

There are many things that could be done to improve PC ports without spending vast amount of resources. Many studios create the the textures in high resolutions to beging with, for example, then dumb it down so the consoles can handle it. Or something simple and ME3 related, how much resources and time would it have taken to give an option in the PC port to map cover/sprint/interact to different key? Not that much. EA (and most other publishers) just won't spend a single cent more on the port than it needs to as long as it deems the players will put up with it. And i would probably do the same thing in their place as long as people don't vote it down with their wallets.

I still use Windows XP bare in mind. So DX11 is not a major concern for me. I just can't justify buying Win 7 at this time just for improvement in gaming when all games currently run in XP to begin with. 

[RocketManSR2]

I can play without Origin. I win. Good day.  

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 06 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[RocketManSR2]

This topic is really pathetic. On a board full of other pathetic topics, the fact that this one stands out is saying something.

[Dreadcall]

Doodledorf wrote...

I still use Windows XP bare in mind. So DX11 is not a major concern for me. I just can't justify buying Win 7 at this time just for improvement in gaming when all games currently run in XP to begin with. 

Well that actually is beacause of consoles I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing though, as it keeps the PC gamers who can't or don't want to spend a lot of money on hardware from being left behind. Saves me a lot of money actually, as i'm perfectly fine with lowering settings to what my computer can handle. 

Tangster wrote...

Graphics like that are not possible. That's based on ray-trace technology and there's a reason why it's pre-rendered.
If it was possible, then companies like Crytek/Epic/CDProjekt would probably have done it.

As it stands, Crysis(original and warhead), Metro 2033, Witcher 2, BF3(on a PC) are the abosolute cream of what can be achieved with current PC hardware.

 

Epic's GDC 2011 tech demo disagrees with you

 

[leeboi2]

Apart from the fact that console's get the most sales...

[Doodledorf]

leeboi2 wrote...

Apart from the fact that console's get the most sales...

I am for the most part these days a PC gamer, but even I realise as a business more money can be made with console titles these days still. It would be nieve to not cater to them to some degree. There will always be more titles on the PC and as such I do not fear console gamers of title that cater to them. Hell I used to be one too, I owned almost every console outside of Wii and DS/PSP. Fun games do not require only the most pretty graphics to be fun.

It is a bonus when looks nice but not a necessity.

Modifié par Doodledorf, 06 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[abaris]

dayvancowboy1 wrote...


the truth is this will never change, consoles will always exist and as long as they do i'll always prefer them because they get more love than the ports the PC is getting. worse graphics, better everything else. buying PC hardware so expensive when games are made for consoles is wasting you're money away.

It's not that I wish consoles to be gone. To each their own.

All I want is for the highest possible config to set the standards. You can always scale down via settings, but you can't use what isn't there to begin with.

That's the problem.

[Femlob]

As much as I enjoy my consoles and console-exclusive games, PC gamers are right. Consoles are holding back development. I'll be the first to admit that if there's even half a chance that my PC will be able to run a game at decent settings, I won't give the console versions a second look. And that's not even mentioning mods.

Modifié par Femlob, 06 avril 2012 - 05:13 .

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Didn't know Kaidan had his surname written on the side of his armour