235 réponses à ce sujet

[chimpdaddy121]

Hogge87 wrote...

Mettyx wrote...

We could have had a game that looks like this cinematic by now if it weren't for consoles.

dl link

Hi.
I'm a game developer and these are my few cents in this matter.

First of all, todays consoles are not eight years old (although I'm suspecting that you are). The Xbox 360 was launched in November 2005, making it six years old. The PS3 is a year newer. New, more powerful consoles are scheduled to be unveiled at this years E3.
And even if game developers wouldn't care about consoles, there wouldn't be games that look that good. Why? Well, how many people own gaming rigs capable of that? It's a simple matter of: should we make cheaper, lower end graphics which work on all computers, or expensive, high end graphics which only work on core gamers' (which ironically are the most avid pirates) gaming rigs?
And still lots of game developers don't really want this change, because they don't really seem a point. I know lots of hugely talented artists who look at Uncharted 3 and ask "what the heck are we supposed to do with more power".

We have already reached a point where graphics swallow a disproportionately large part of a games budget. We have reached a point where graphics swallow so much  resources that game designers are forced by publishers to build super-linear levels just to force players to see all the eye-candy.

You're whining over day one DLC and singleplayer campaigns being too short. Why the f**k do you think that is? You don't think it has anything to do with the development costs of games skyrocketing over the last 10 years? When Shenmue was released, everyone thought it had an astronomic development cost and that the game wouldn't be able to break even regardless of on which format it'd sell. Nowadays, that budget is no big deal.

Also, both from my personal experience and from other game developers experience, developing PC games is a pain in the ass nowadays. You have to program everything so it'll be compatible with all kinds of stupid combinations of software and hardware. On a console, you have ONE combination of stuff for the PS3, one for the Xbox and that's it. If it works, it works and will allways work. If MS bring out a new version of the 360 on which my games turn out to be uncompatible, it's up to MS to patch the console to be compatible with my game.

Finally, there's one really good reason for prioritizing consoles: PC gamers are notorious for "borrwing" games. I talked with a worker on Massive Entertainment whom claimed that they at one point in time checked how many people were playing World in Conflict on their servers at a given time. There were more players online, playing their game at that particular moment than had bought the game. When EA did the same thing for FIFA, they found out that there was TEN TIMES more people playing the game at that very second than had actually bought it. I've heard that perhaps just one percent of PC FIFA-players own a legal copy.
So essentially: PIRACY IS WHY PC GAMERS CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

that last part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

[slimgrin]

Hogge87 wrote...


First of all, todays consoles are not eight years old (although I'm suspecting that you are). The Xbox 360 was launched in November 2005, making it six years old. 

Well gee that makes everything better, Mr. developer.

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 avril 2012 - 08:40 .

[Habs25]

Mettyx wrote...

We could have had a game that looks like this cinematic by now if it weren't for consoles.

dl link

Too bad  

[SilentNukee]

Qqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ME was originally Xbox 360 exclusive so just shush yourself and be glad it got ported to PC.

[chimpdaddy121]

Justin2k wrote...

The problem is PC gamers tend to pirate. And more people play on consoles than PC's anyway.

Basically you are lucky you get ports even, and people are free to make games for powerful PC's but they choose to go where the money is, which is console gaming.

i shall copy and paste the same answer for you
This
part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you
couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did
they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the
ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or
maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless
PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

also why has alot of 360 games been leaked 2 or so weeks in advanced and pirated as hell, check out the witcher 2

[chimpdaddy121]

SilentNukee wrote...

Qqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ME was originally Xbox 360 exclusive so just shush yourself and be glad it got ported to PC.

not really, here we need to thank gaming, not being about art but being about how much money they want to make, microsoft know that they could put it on pc and sell well, which is what happened.

why do you think alot of games are kept back for pc until afew months later for release, its because they know that if a game was out multplat most gamers who could, would buy it on pc.

[SalsaDMA]

I think the piracy/borrow comment is funny.

While I never bought a console myself yet (although I considered it just to buy ME3 used), several of my friends have one.

And here's the thing: they schedule gaming purchases with each other.
Person A buys title X, person B buys title Y, person C buys title Z.
Then when they are done with the games, they swap them around.
In the end, they get 3 games of entertainement while only making one purchase.

Why? Because they feel console games are too expensive compared to what they get for them.

I think people are seriously underestimating the amount of 'borrowing' that happens on consoles, and the rumours about the next generation actively trying to combat this kind of things seems to indicate that not everyone are equally blind to this obvious fact of life.

[Justin2k]

chimpdaddy121 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

The problem is PC gamers tend to pirate. And more people play on consoles than PC's anyway.

Basically you are lucky you get ports even, and people are free to make games for powerful PC's but they choose to go where the money is, which is console gaming.

i shall copy and paste the same answer for you
This
part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you
couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did
they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the
ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or
maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless
PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

also why has alot of 360 games been leaked 2 or so weeks in advanced and pirated as hell, check out the witcher 2

Oh sure, there is console piracy.  It's nowhere near the figures of PC piracy though and you know this.

[Hogge87]

chimpdaddy121 wrote...
that last part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

Umm... have developers stopped porting games to the PC? What's your point?

The PS1 piracy was nowhere near the PC piracy nowadays. Like I said: EA measured that at a given moment, more players were playing FIFA online than had actually bought the game.

You seem to fail to understand that the game industry is about making money. Why should game developers invest time and money to create graphics which only a small portion of the potential customers can enjoy? Especially if that small portion is the portion that's most likely to not pay?

Modifié par Hogge87, 06 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Tangster]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Funny thing is. That even without console. Most company could not even afford to make games with the quality pcist (myself include) would want them to reach.

Witcher 1, every Valve game, KOTOR, I would say Stalker, but that was buggy as fok.

Modifié par Tangster, 06 avril 2012 - 08:52 .

[SalsaDMA]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Funny thing is. That even without console. Most company could not even afford to make games with the quality pcist (myself include) would want them to reach.

depends on the game, really.

Take borderlands. Originally it was designed with regular graphics, but they decided to shift the style into a more cartoony look. Personally I thought it worked alot better than if they had attempted a 'realistic' approach (at least from the footage I saw of it).

It would be even more important about finding the right theme, or style, for your game, than just throwing a brown filter over everything and saying "this should look realistic..." (exagerated, I know, but it emphasizes the point I feel)

[Justin2k]

Piracy and whatever aside, my personal take on it is that high end PC's are still seen as too geeky for the mainstream. People use laptops, Ipads etc to do their facebooking on, SKY to watch their TV on and PS3 or Xbox to play their games on.

Until PC gaming can become "cool" the developers are better off making games for the consoles. Look at console sales compared to PC sales for most games (excluding MMO's which generally are low end end and can be played on laptops). I think Skyrim on 360 outsold the PC 7:1 at one point.

[slimgrin]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I think the piracy/borrow comment is funny.

While I never bought a console myself yet (although I considered it just to buy ME3 used), several of my friends have one.

And here's the thing: they schedule gaming purchases with each other.
Person A buys title X, person B buys title Y, person C buys title Z.
Then when they are done with the games, they swap them around.
In the end, they get 3 games of entertainement while only making one purchase.

Why? Because they feel console games are too expensive compared to what they get for them.

I think people are seriously underestimating the amount of 'borrowing' that happens on consoles, and the rumours about the next generation actively trying to combat this kind of things seems to indicate that not everyone are equally blind to this obvious fact of life.

You mean to say...console users aren't born with halos and fairy wings? And the piracy bit spewed by publishers just might be an overused and simplistic excuse?

https://encrypted-tb...RBYP0v9oQSxy_lQ

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Tangster]

Hogge87 wrote...

chimpdaddy121 wrote...
that last part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

Umm... have developers stopped porting games to the PC? What's your point?

You seem to fail to understand that the game industry is about making money. Why should game developers invest time and money to create graphics which only a small portion of the potential customers can enjoy? Especially if that small portion is the portion that's most likely to not pay?

If they already have the graphics done. ie, HD texture packs, such as Skyrim and DA2. I fully accept they won't be making something like Crysis for console, but it won't kill them to ship PC versions with the full res textures or have it for download later.

[chimpdaddy121]

Justin2k wrote...

chimpdaddy121 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

The problem is PC gamers tend to pirate. And more people play on consoles than PC's anyway.

Basically you are lucky you get ports even, and people are free to make games for powerful PC's but they choose to go where the money is, which is console gaming.

i shall copy and paste the same answer for you
This
part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you
couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did
they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the
ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or
maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless
PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

also why has alot of 360 games been leaked 2 or so weeks in advanced and pirated as hell, check out the witcher 2

Oh sure, there is console piracy.  It's nowhere near the figures of PC piracy though and you know this.

however there is nowhere near, aaww screw it, there is NO 2nd hand sales or borrowing on pc, that alone makes sales less on consles then it would be on pc, have you brought every game brand new and kept it, if you havent your like a uploader who is alowing someone to have that game without paying the dev/publiser :innocent:

[xkg]

Justin2k wrote...

chimpdaddy121 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

The problem is PC gamers tend to pirate. And more people play on consoles than PC's anyway.

Basically you are lucky you get ports even, and people are free to make games for powerful PC's but they choose to go where the money is, which is console gaming.

i shall copy and paste the same answer for you
This
part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you
couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did
they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the
ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or
maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless
PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

also why has alot of 360 games been leaked 2 or so weeks in advanced and pirated as hell, check out the witcher 2

Oh sure, there is console piracy.  It's nowhere near the figures of PC piracy though and you know this.

Oh, I don't know. Do you have any proof ? Myabe some links with some figures/numbers ?
Until then why don't you go back to trolling the retake movement in other threads ?

Modifié par xkg, 06 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[chimpdaddy121]

Hogge87 wrote...

chimpdaddy121 wrote...
that last part made me laugh so much, so in the ps1 days where you couldnt walk more than 10ft without tripping over a chipped ps1, did they stop making games, hmmm no, why are they biggest rumours about the ps4 and new xbox all about constant internet connection, hmm piracy or maybe 2nd hand sales, dont give me that piracy C**P, thats just usless PR spin for lazy developers who dont want to work hard.

Umm... have developers stopped porting games to the PC? What's your point?

The PS1 piracy was nowhere near the PC piracy nowadays. Like I said: EA measured that at a given moment, more players were playing FIFA online than had actually bought the game.

You seem to fail to understand that the game industry is about making money. Why should game developers invest time and money to create graphics which only a small portion of the potential customers can enjoy? Especially if that small portion is the portion that's most likely to not pay?

if its about making money then heres a nice tid bit for you, its cheaper making it for pc, yes theres slightly more testing however, there is no licensing fee which means that at a certain price point the game has a big margin value compared to a console game, and really when makeing things like textures they are actually high res to begin with then scaled down, how messed up is that

Modifié par chimpdaddy121, 06 avril 2012 - 09:03 .

[xkg]

Justin2k wrote...

Piracy and whatever aside, my personal take on it is that high end PC's are still seen as too geeky for the mainstream. People use laptops, Ipads etc to do their facebooking on, SKY to watch their TV on and PS3 or Xbox to play their games on.

Until PC gaming can become "cool" the developers are better off making games for the consoles. Look at console sales compared to PC sales for most games (excluding MMO's which generally are low end end and can be played on laptops). I think Skyrim on 360 outsold the PC 7:1 at one point.

This thread is not about the game sales. But if you insist, say hello to this chart.

[Gatt9]

Hogge87 wrote...

Mettyx wrote...

We could have had a game that looks like this cinematic by now if it weren't for consoles.

dl link

Hi.
I'm a game developer and these are my few cents in this matter.

First of all, todays consoles are not eight years old (although I'm suspecting that you are). The Xbox 360 was launched in November 2005, making it six years old. The PS3 is a year newer. New, more powerful consoles are scheduled to be unveiled at this years E3.
And even if game developers wouldn't care about consoles, there wouldn't be games that look that good. Why? Well, how many people own gaming rigs capable of that? It's a simple matter of: should we make cheaper, lower end graphics which work on all computers, or expensive, high end graphics which only work on core gamers' (which ironically are the most avid pirates) gaming rigs?
And still lots of game developers don't really want this change, because they don't really seem a point. I know lots of hugely talented artists who look at Uncharted 3 and ask "what the heck are we supposed to do with more power".

We have already reached a point where graphics swallow a disproportionately large part of a games budget. We have reached a point where graphics swallow so much  resources that game designers are forced by publishers to build super-linear levels just to force players to see all the eye-candy.

You're whining over day one DLC and singleplayer campaigns being too short. Why the f**k do you think that is? You don't think it has anything to do with the development costs of games skyrocketing over the last 10 years? When Shenmue was released, everyone thought it had an astronomic development cost and that the game wouldn't be able to break even regardless of on which format it'd sell. Nowadays, that budget is no big deal.

Also, both from my personal experience and from other game developers experience, developing PC games is a pain in the ass nowadays. You have to program everything so it'll be compatible with all kinds of stupid combinations of software and hardware. On a console, you have ONE combination of stuff for the PS3, one for the Xbox and that's it. If it works, it works and will allways work. If MS bring out a new version of the 360 on which my games turn out to be uncompatible, it's up to MS to patch the console to be compatible with my game.

Finally, there's one really good reason for prioritizing consoles: PC gamers are notorious for "borrwing" games. I talked with a worker on Massive Entertainment whom claimed that they at one point in time checked how many people were playing World in Conflict on their servers at a given time. There were more players online, playing their game at that particular moment than had bought the game. When EA did the same thing for FIFA, they found out that there was TEN TIMES more people playing the game at that very second than had actually bought it. I've heard that perhaps just one percent of PC FIFA-players own a legal copy.
So essentially: PIRACY IS WHY PC GAMERS CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

I'm going to go ahead and call shennagins on this one.

-More powerful consoles aren't being unveiled this year at E3,  you're a couple months behind on your news pieces.  Additionally,  I question if they can actually release anything signficantly more powerful.  I doubt highly they're going to be able to effectively dissipate heat in a small form factor box with modern chips,  and I also question their ability to do it on a console's power supply.

-You neglected to notice that PC games have been characterized by sliding graphical settings for around 20 years now.

-I doubt highly the Uncharted folks made that statement.  Since they already know what they can do,  such as persistant world effects,  better AI,  and more enemies on the screen at one time.  Especially since they're locked into the crippled PS3 hardware,  that really has about the same amount of memory as a cell phone.

-Graphics has nothing to do with linear levels.  Publishers don't care if people "see all the eye candy".  There's no relationship there.

-I know why that is,  but apparently you do not.  I'll help you out.  A publisher adds 25% to 30% to the cost of a game's development,  and they do not work on the game.  They add nothing to it for that huge penalty.  DLC is all about the Publisher trying to make more money,  and has absolutely nothing to do with the game's development cost.

-You're flat out lieing,  compatibility issues are a thing of the past thanks to the abstraction layer provided by DirectX.  If something's really wrong,  and you used the API correctly,  then it's the hardware manufactuer's job to correct their bug.

-You're also neglecting to notice that the PS3 is a shared memory solution requiring you to keep tight control over memory usage,  and it's an in-order processor,  requiring you to extensively tune the code to get it to run well.  Far more onerous of a task than using the various API's on the PC that handle most stuff abstractly.

-You might want to check your facts about "Piracy" versus the consoles,   You're way off base again.  Recent studies have shown that over half of console gamers don't pay for games,  and the bulk of the remainder buy used.  Google it,  that was just 3-4 months ago.

In short,  I *highly* doubt you're anything but an armchair game developer with little real knowledge,  you don't seem to know the hardware or the market at all.

Modifié par Gatt9, 06 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[SalsaDMA]

xkg wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

Piracy and whatever aside, my personal take on it is that high end PC's are still seen as too geeky for the mainstream. People use laptops, Ipads etc to do their facebooking on, SKY to watch their TV on and PS3 or Xbox to play their games on.

Until PC gaming can become "cool" the developers are better off making games for the consoles. Look at console sales compared to PC sales for most games (excluding MMO's which generally are low end end and can be played on laptops). I think Skyrim on 360 outsold the PC 7:1 at one point.

This thread is not about the game sales. But if you insist, say hello to this chart.

Considering how the market might react if the rumours about 'always online DRM' on the next gen consoles are true, those charts might end up more skewed, you know...

[abaris]

Justin2k wrote...

The problem is PC gamers tend to pirate.

Another urban legend.

Works on every platform and people are people with the same vices wherever they play.

Modifié par abaris, 06 avril 2012 - 09:37 .

[Faust1979]

whine whine whine like I want to spend a ton of money upgrading my computer every time a new game comes out. Hell playing the computer version is usually the buggiest version and when you play computers you have to worry about DRM. You can stick to your computer I'll stick to gaming on a console which is easier and less expensive.

[abaris]

Faust1979 wrote...

whine whine whine like I want to spend a ton of money upgrading my computer every time a new game comes out. Hell playing the computer version is usually the buggiest version and when you play computers you have to worry about DRM. You can stick to your computer I'll stick to gaming on a console which is easier and less expensive.

And the urban legends continue.

Time to light the campfire and open some cans.

[TheBlackBaron]

I think the problem might be that developers are tired of hearing certain segments of the gaming population whining that they aren't fully taking advantage of their Sandy Bridge-E hexacore CPU and Quad-SLI GTX 590 set-up, while ****ing about people that don't have that kind of disposable income "holding them back" by daring to purchase the cheaper product that gets them the same of amount of entertainment.

(By the way, I just built my first PC two months ago - I quite enjoyed it)

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 avril 2012 - 09:43 .