Aller au contenu

Photo

Y u no want happy ending?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
305 réponses à ce sujet

#26
DESTRAUDO

DESTRAUDO
  • Members
  • 969 messages

LightweightJustice wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Theme? Can you be more specific?
I hope you don't mean the "Jesus and palls" theme.


It means that if you put the ending to the carebears movie at the end of a SAW movie there is a disjoint.

There is actually a lesser example of this in ME3 currently, in the grunt side mission. If you save the queen you get a fantastic grunt sacrifice scene , where at the end he barrels off a cliff with a ravager into a bottomless pit.

However if he was loyal he comes back from this in a cornball way right out of a blasto movie.  When playing it i kind of wished grunt was not loyal. 



As bad as this is, having a happy ending would be like grunt charging out of the cave at the end riding a rainbow, with the rest of the company alive behind him, dancing to 80's synth music. 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 06 avril 2012 - 10:50 .


#27
NGC1300

NGC1300
  • Members
  • 187 messages

Biotic Sage wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Theme? Can you be more specific?
I hope you don't mean the "jesus and palls" theme.


It was obvious that ME3 is doomed to have dark endings, whichever way it is. It is a war you can't win. People are doomed to die. Genocide everywhere.
 
And you expect to see a unicorn farting rainbow at the end?  don't think so.


Some people apparently like their storytelling to be inconsistent and to have jarring tonal shifts.


aren't we talking about happy endings and not storytelling? if you want to attack, at least make it right.


...I thought we were too.  I was implying that a "happy ending" would be inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy.  Endings of stories do fall in the realm of storytelling after all.


Ok, so I misunderstood your texts. My apology.

#28
Biotic Sage

Biotic Sage
  • Members
  • 2 842 messages

LightweightJustice wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

I agree with the war theme and all aspects...but still.
Wouldn't it be nice to gave some degree of happy ending?
I'm not saying that Shep should like space ninja, destroy all reapers with his eye lasers.


Isn't that "some degree of happy ending" the fact that the cycle of genocide in our galaxy has finally been broken?  How about the fact that billions of people can live out the rest of their lives without getting huskified or melted into Reaper goo or just flat out killed?  And what about the galaxy being able to determine its own path now that the Relays/Citadel are destroyed, outside of the Reapers' assigned system of control?


I agree with the universe ending/ It's true that the wr is over and everyting will be fine...I hope.
But what about personal ending? After all, we played as Shep, not as The Galaxy?


The personal is where we have to feel the loss.  The heroic sacrifice loses its effectiveness when we don't feel it on a personal level.  And there is hardly any level more personal than the Shepard level, an avatar we have created in our own image and followed for 3 entire games.

#29
LightweightJustice

LightweightJustice
  • Members
  • 483 messages

Biotic Sage wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Theme? Can you be more specific?
I hope you don't mean the "jesus and palls" theme.


It was obvious that ME3 is doomed to have dark endings, whichever way it is. It is a war you can't win. People are doomed to die. Genocide everywhere.
 
And you expect to see a unicorn farting rainbow at the end?  don't think so.


Some people apparently like their storytelling to be inconsistent and to have jarring tonal shifts.


aren't we talking about happy endings and not storytelling? if you want to attack, at least make it right.


...I thought we were too.  I was implying that a "happy ending" would be inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy.  Endings of stories do fall in the realm of storytelling after all.

So you are saying that previous games had the same 'bittersweet" ending?

#30
YukiFA

YukiFA
  • Members
  • 295 messages

nhsknudsen wrote...

YukiFA wrote...
That's pretty funny. Becazuse a uncorn farting a rainbow is prety much what we got at the end.

Why is it so bad wanting to achieve a happy ending where Shepard survives and is reunited with their friends?


Nothing, but without sacrifice it cheapens the threat. If they did it like a "Dark Ritual", where it comes at a price you may not be willing to do, depending on your morality... Maybe

There was already sacrifice. On both a personal (for Shepard) and galactic scale. Mordin, Thane and possibly other squad members can die depending on your choices. Thessia, Earth, Palaven and hundreds of other worlds are occupied by Reapers and their populations enthralled.

If I make the right choices in all three games I should be able to achieve a happy ending. An ending that I wanted, that I chose, that I was goddamn promised.

#31
Biotic Sage

Biotic Sage
  • Members
  • 2 842 messages

LightweightJustice wrote...

So you are saying that previous games had the same 'bittersweet" ending?


The trilogy is all one story.  So there was never an "ending" until ME3.  Sacrifice was a theme throughout the entire trilogy.  Shepard as a character embodied sacrifice, whether paragon or renegade.  And the Reapers were the looming threat, a very serious threat, doomsday, gods and monsters serious.  Walking away from that to make blue children would have undermined that seriousness.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 06 avril 2012 - 10:53 .


#32
LightweightJustice

LightweightJustice
  • Members
  • 483 messages

Biotic Sage wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

I agree with the war theme and all aspects...but still.
Wouldn't it be nice to gave some degree of happy ending?
I'm not saying that Shep should like space ninja, destroy all reapers with his eye lasers.


Isn't that "some degree of happy ending" the fact that the cycle of genocide in our galaxy has finally been broken?  How about the fact that billions of people can live out the rest of their lives without getting huskified or melted into Reaper goo or just flat out killed?  And what about the galaxy being able to determine its own path now that the Relays/Citadel are destroyed, outside of the Reapers' assigned system of control?


I agree with the universe ending/ It's true that the wr is over and everyting will be fine...I hope.
But what about personal ending? After all, we played as Shep, not as The Galaxy?


The personal is where we have to feel the loss.  The heroic sacrifice loses its effectiveness when we don't feel it on a personal level.  And there is hardly any level more personal than the Shepard level, an avatar we have created in our own image and followed for 3 entire games.



Ok, maybe I do whine a bit. But the question remains. Would you like ME less if it had a POSIBILITY of a happy ending?

Modifié par LightweightJustice, 06 avril 2012 - 10:58 .


#33
SkitSkit

SkitSkit
  • Members
  • 175 messages

NGC1300 wrote...

LightweightJustice wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Theme? Can you be more specific?
I hope you don't mean the "jesus and palls" theme.


It was obvious that ME3 is doomed to have dark endings, whichever way it is. It is a war you can't win. People are doomed to die. Genocide everywhere.
 
And you expect to see a unicorn farting rainbow at the end?  don't think so.


Its not what i expect

... but i kinda want it, No literaly, imagine Celestia coming in from the eather portal and saving the day... I mean its just as nonsensical as the star child, but its 20% cooler.

You want none mainstream; Elements of harmony Unite!

#34
YukiFA

YukiFA
  • Members
  • 295 messages
Did you miss the last five minutes of the game, the ending? The Reapers were not a serious threat. They were pawns of the God-Child AI, that can be killed by pressing the emergency stop chosing the destroy ending.

#35
xaliqen

xaliqen
  • Members
  • 27 messages
I'll be happy with a good ending.

To put it another way, any ending that isn't ridiculous will be a 'happy ending' as far as I'm concerned.

To rephrase that a third way, weaving many unique elements into a fictional universe is a tough job with many pitfalls. One such pitfall is precisely what we have in the current ending, losing sight of the big picture and opting for a carnival of the bizarre. If I can leave the carnival without having my wallet stolen, contracting any infectious diseases and with a bit of popcorn still left at the bottom of the paper bag, then I'll consider it a 'happy ending.'

Notwithstanding my previous comments:

DESTRAUDO wrote...

As bad as this is, having a happy ending would be like grunt charging out
of the cave at the end riding a rainbow, with the rest of the company
alive behind him, dancing to 80's synth music. 


I would totally pay for this DLC.

Modifié par xaliqen, 06 avril 2012 - 11:01 .


#36
Siegdrifa

Siegdrifa
  • Members
  • 1 884 messages

NGC1300 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Oh thank for your insightful comment!
This is also an rpg and choices matter (or do they?) so i want to have a happy ending.


is this still rpg? maybe rpg to some level. but not up the level where everything is possible.


Why you think it is called "Mass Effect" in first place ?
Before we play and learn what the "mass effect" is in game, for any RPG player, "Mass Effect" mean "Massive Effectiveness" from decision and oh ! surprise ! this is exactly what the game try to achive, massive repercution of your choice on the univers and characters.

Mass Effect title as a double meaning, for it's essence (choice matter like never before) AND for it's main them (travel through the galaxy and meet aliens and save the univers), through the Mass Effect technologie.

So, let's drop the "unicorn farting rainbow cliché", because this is not what a happy ending is all about.

#37
NGC1300

NGC1300
  • Members
  • 187 messages

Siegdrifa wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Oh thank for your insightful comment!
This is also an rpg and choices matter (or do they?) so i want to have a happy ending.


is this still rpg? maybe rpg to some level. but not up the level where everything is possible.


Why you think it is called "Mass Effect" in first place ?
Before we play and learn what the "mass effect" is in game, for any RPG player, "Mass Effect" mean "Massive Effectiveness" from decision and oh ! surprise ! this is exactly what the game try to achive, massive repercution of your choice on the univers and characters.

Mass Effect title as a double meaning, for it's essence (choice matter like never before) AND for it's main them (travel through the galaxy and meet aliens and save the univers), through the Mass Effect technologie.

So, let's drop the "unicorn farting rainbow cliché", because this is not what a happy ending is all about.


There is a reason why I used simple present tense. Whatever you want it to be, for me it doesn't seem like an rpg now. More like a game with various outcomes which depen on your previous choices, just loads of choices. Like silent hill 2, only with even more choices. You don't get to walk around, land on any planet you want and meet random people. Every place you go, everything you do in ME is tied to the main story(to some degree). You can't progress if you don't continue the main mission. How is that so rpg?

and I did mention that the cliche(?) I used was merely superlative. Because it would contradict what the theme ME# tried to acheive.

Modifié par NGC1300, 06 avril 2012 - 11:07 .


#38
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
  • Guests

nhsknudsen wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I don't think anyone was expected a unicorn farting a rainbow, but I really don't understand why my Shepard escaping with his life and reuniting with his love interest demeans the sacrifices made throughout the game.


What sacrifices? VS, Jenkins and Nihlus? Really? Or the dead faceless numbers we never cared about?

You need to bring the sacrifice into something we care about, be it Shepard, another crewmember or three or something equally similiar than faceless persons.

It's like when you care more, when your cat dies than when 500.000 somalis starve to death, you know its true.


I don't know, Mordin, Thane (or Kirrahe) and Legion probably count among the sacrifices. I'd also say they don't count as the "faceless persons," as they're four of the most liked characters in the series.

#39
nomoredruggs

nomoredruggs
  • Members
  • 841 messages

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I don't think anyone was expected a unicorn farting a rainbow, but I really don't understand why my Shepard escaping with his life and reuniting with his love interest demeans the sacrifices made throughout the game.


qft

#40
Candidate 88766

Candidate 88766
  • Members
  • 3 422 messages
A happy ending generally entails Shepard getting back together with his crew and LI, which defeats the idea of sacrifice that was so prevalent throughout the game.

Bioware want the Reapers to seem as powerful as they made them out to be in ME1, and defeating them has to cost the player something - the player should feel the sacrifices made to defeat them. Being told that the Turians will go extinct or that Earth has fallen doesn't hold that much impact - its the characters we care for in the ME universe.

Bioware wanted the player to lose something in order to defeat the Reapers. Losing an entire species doesn't mean anything, but losing your crew or your LI does mean something to the majority of players. Having an ending where they can all reunite means the player hasn't really lost anything.

#41
DESTRAUDO

DESTRAUDO
  • Members
  • 969 messages

nomoredruggs wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I don't think anyone was expected a unicorn farting a rainbow, but I really don't understand why my Shepard escaping with his life and reuniting with his love interest demeans the sacrifices made throughout the game.


qft


It does not. Hell the tweets from staff suggest in high destruct you will reunite with crew. The problem comes when people also want the destruct ending to save the geth and EDI. AKA 'optimal ending.' The problem here is that it would make everyone who chose to sacrifice themselves in other two endings look like idiots and removes the point of the entire ending choice.

#42
DarkShadow

DarkShadow
  • Members
  • 371 messages
I'm really done explaining because everything has been explained perfectly already. I'm just gonna repeat one thing: Mass Effect never had a completely "dark theme", which of the game themes become primary completely depends on your style of playing. I never really got a "sacrifice is necessary" feeling throughout the entire series. I got an "overcoming impossible odds feeling".

#43
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
  • Guests

DESTRAUDO wrote...

nomoredruggs wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I don't think anyone was expected a unicorn farting a rainbow, but I really don't understand why my Shepard escaping with his life and reuniting with his love interest demeans the sacrifices made throughout the game.


qft


It does not. Hell the tweets from staff suggest in high destruct you will reunite with crew. The problem comes when people also want the destruct ending to save the geth and EDI. AKA 'optimal ending.' The problem here is that it would make everyone who chose to sacrifice themselves in other two endings look like idiots and removes the point of the entire ending choice.


I agree. There should be some give and take with the endings, but right now, we don't have any take. Hopefully this DLC will provide that.

I like the geth and EDI, but I'm gladly sacrifice them for Liara.

#44
DESTRAUDO

DESTRAUDO
  • Members
  • 969 messages

DarkShadow wrote...

 I got an "overcoming impossible odds feeling".


Tell that to ashley/ kaiden in ME1. 

Edit to say this.

If i was asked to point to the place where mass effect as a franchise made a blunder let me point to this.

They gave you the ability to reconcile squad arguments in ME2 with high enough paragon/ renegade. 


If they had not done this, people would not have gotten the false expectation that hammering the paragon button would lead to perfect ending. Also people would have had far more interesting/different me3 experiences to each other. 

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 06 avril 2012 - 11:28 .


#45
shodiswe

shodiswe
  • Members
  • 4 999 messages
First of all I want the ending to make sense and seem plausible, given the circumstances. I would also appreciate if there is enough left of the mass effect universe for future stories, with or without Shepard.

Also I want it to be an emotional experience that justifies the long journey and expectations.

I want to see that massive force to actualy punish the enemy, even if they can't defeat them conventionaly as it was said.. But From what I saw at 8000+ military assets at 100% readiness they look like unarmed civilians running a gauntless getting slaughtered where tanks and whole batalions get slaughtered by 2 or 3 husks.... Which seems anti-climatic... It just seems like it was a misstake to get a force to attack the reapers if the only one in the galaxy that can kill a husk is Shepard.. Apparently a few thousand solders commandos and tanks can't handle a handfull of em.

The troops in hammer barely seems worthwhile as cannon fodder as they are represented in the cinematics.

If they kill a few thousand husks but a few millions keep advancing then thats fair enough for a dark horrible ending... But seeing them like that is just sad :( It's not heroic with a dark bitter end.. Also it woudl have been nice if you could have sabotaged the reapers coordination like you did on Virmire, even if you don't win in the end it gives a nice feel to know you did what you could given the impossible odds.

Most of all I want the end to make sense and in character for the people involved.

The logical flaws as I see them and breaches to ME lore are too many for me to line them up. That bothers me more than the question wethere it's a happy ending or not. If the reaper threat end and Organic life gets a chance to make their own way back into the galaxy then that's a happy ending, the prospect before that was a complete extinction of all life. However it woudl be nice of the mass effect universe can continue in some form or another, it's a nice little universe with lots of story potential.

The ending is nowhere near as good as the genophage and geth missions. While Iunderstand that it takes time and resorces to create a perfect ending I think it should have been worth it to Bioware considering how important it is to give the flagship story an ending that reflects the mass effect universe and storytelling in a positive way. One that is true to lore and craftmanship of the rest of the story. The genophage and geth parts were masterpieces, I wish the ending would have been as incredible and emotional as those parts. The ending is where all the previous parts of the game commes to conclution, or it should have been. All story archs leads to this point in time which makes it the most important part to get right, everyone expects it to play out in a way that makes the revious parts relevant. This is also one of the thigns peopel have questioned sicne ME1, will bioware be able to keep track of all choices and make it work until the end. Imo Bioware got very close by stumbles on the finnishing line. most of the game was incredible and you could feel that what you did had an effect until that last mission on earth and the conversation with the catalyst. Some of the earth mission was good but it needed more imo, and the catalyst part made no sense to me, it just seemed forced, I can argue that shepard had no options but to trust the reapers and do their bidding hoping for the best. But realy... What deos it matter for the catalyst if shepard made it to his home, s/he can't do anything unless the reapers tells him what his options are, which gives them all the power. They don't seem pressed enough to allow Shepard to destroy them.
And why would a free AI allow Shepard to take control? The geth wouldn't allow such a thing unless they were going extinct, last I saw the reapers wern't going extinct, the solders fightign them couldn't even kill husks... why would they be concerned. Or are they realy crazy enough to give Shepard 2 bad options hoping that Shepard will take it on her/himself to commit suicide by jumping into an energy beam and fusing all organic and synthetic life... Similar to the reaper forms that are flying aroudn killing everythign in their path... The very thing he was fighting.. even if the end movie for it represents it slightly diferently without saying what it actualy meant....

To answer the OP, I don't care as much for a happy ending as much as A Icare for the endign to actualy make sense and thus making it seem worth experiencing. Same goes for movies, some movies are great a few makes no sense at all and people hate it. I hope that made sense to everyone :) most of you anyway.

#46
Henioo

Henioo
  • Members
  • 706 messages
Dragon Age was kind of similiar to ME3. You gather armies to a final stand off with the enemy. But there, you have a choice of a good ending, IF YOU SO WISH.

Now, I don't mind a sad ending, it was kind of expected, actually. But a sad ending to be the only one? Unexpected, at all.

#47
DarkShadow

DarkShadow
  • Members
  • 371 messages

DESTRAUDO wrote...
Tell that to ashley/ kaiden in ME1.


So this defines the one and only theme of the whole series? It was just one among many...

#48
Fulgrim88

Fulgrim88
  • Members
  • 1 585 messages
I have no problem with a happy ending.

While I would consider it a somewhat cheesy end to my personal story, I don't see why it shouldn't be one of several possible outcomes. That's more or less what we were promised.

Why they chose to abandon that in favor of a lame "canon ending" tying into ME4 is beyond me.

#49
devSin

devSin
  • Members
  • 8 929 messages
I'm cool with a happier ending. If the characters' stories are all complete, I have no problem with Shepard retiring instead of dying.

I don't feel the "sacrifice" was really necessary or had any real impact with the funky narrative at the end (Ultimate Sacrifice is my favorite ending, because it was done so well, but the protagonist death is near meaningless in ME3).

#50
Siegdrifa

Siegdrifa
  • Members
  • 1 884 messages

NGC1300 wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

Deventh wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Oh thank for your insightful comment!
This is also an rpg and choices matter (or do they?) so i want to have a happy ending.


is this still rpg? maybe rpg to some level. but not up the level where everything is possible.


Why you think it is called "Mass Effect" in first place ?
Before we play and learn what the "mass effect" is in game, for any RPG player, "Mass Effect" mean "Massive Effectiveness" from decision and oh ! surprise ! this is exactly what the game try to achive, massive repercution of your choice on the univers and characters.

Mass Effect title as a double meaning, for it's essence (choice matter like never before) AND for it's main them (travel through the galaxy and meet aliens and save the univers), through the Mass Effect technologie.

So, let's drop the "unicorn farting rainbow cliché", because this is not what a happy ending is all about.


There is a reason why I used simple present tense. Whatever you want it to be, for me it doesn't seem like an rpg now. More like a game with various outcomes which depen on your previous choices, just loads of choices. Like silent hill 2, only with even more choices. You don't get to walk around, land on any planet you want and meet random people. Every place you go, everything you do in ME is tied to the main story(to some degree). You can't progress if you don't continue the main mission. How is that so rpg?

and I did mention that the cliche(?) I used was merely superlative. Because it would contradict what the theme ME# tried to acheive.


I won't argue on what is an RPG because lot of people have different opinion and never want to compromis, so i'll skip that, but because you think it is or not an RPG, or because you think RPG must be like this and carry that doesn't mean it is the universal definition of RPG, it's just your opinion, a subjective point of view.

Not sayng it shouldn't be disregarded, not sayng your are not meaning any point, not sayng i wouldn't share some of this point too, but this game is actualy clissified as RPG and because we have choices to shape the game to our liking, and it is important in Role Playng Game, if for you it's not enough, fine, but since the game spend so much effort on that point, why stop and not go all the way ?

Using cliché and superlative doesn't work much, unless you are tryng to provok those who don't share your opinion by diminishing their vision without listening to them (wich is not really the purpose of forums and communication).
A happy ending, sad ending or whatever ending is a matter of writting to make it looks good and making sens.
Before criticise "happy ending", it would be good to know what point to talk about, what could sound "too much" and why.
From what i see, only those against happy ending in a "no-brainer" way talk about rainbow and unicorn.

Anyway, Jessica Merizan comunicated via twitter yesterday that it will be possible to reunite Shep and his crew depending of the ending you choose and sacrifice you made, she also stated there could be hint for the possibility to repair of the relays.
For me, let's wait and see in summer the final product.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 06 avril 2012 - 11:38 .