305 réponses à ce sujet

[killnoob]

I don't see why there shouldn't be a mega super happy ending provided if the players have work hard to achieve it. IMO Dragon Age Origins handles the happy ending issue elegantly, you get the options to sacrifice yourself,  let other people to sacrifice themselves, or sacrifice no one.

giving players more options is almost always a good thing

Modifié par killnoob, 06 avril 2012 - 01:30 .

[Rhiens VI]

Pulletlamer wrote...
You know, if you build enough alliances, and take a lot of effort into the game,

...Then you delay the inevitable defeat and destruction long enough to make some crucial choices. That's the mood of the whole game, and you're being reminded of it again and again and again.

I would like to feel rewarded at the end, to see that my choices mattered. Instead I get a "choose how you die" option.

Yes, the choices suck. But the mood is right.

[Joccaren]

Optimystic_X wrote...

If there is a "happy golden ending" then all other endings become meaningless, Nonstandard Game Over.

It's like finishing one of those old adventure games with less than perfect score. It doesn't mean you had a different artistic experience, it means you ****ed up and missed something somewhere.

That is your opinion. Obviously, you are not cut out for Role Playing, or Role Playing Games if you believe that getting the perfect ending is the only true result. Learn to Role Play, then broaden your views, and come back to me.

The other endings still have meaning as they are what a certain Shepard could achieve. You RP'd your Shepard, and that's how they ended up. If you look at it from a score perspective - yeah, that may be valid. Last I checked though, Mass Effect was a Role Playing Game - so honestly Role Playing should only be expected.

[Gonder]

I don't get it, are you complaining about how happy these endings are? These endings are actually very, very sad when you think about it. :/

[Kandon Arc]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Deventh wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Oh thank for your insightful comment!
This is also an rpg and choices matter (or do they?) so i want to have a happy ending.

Then suggest a choice that would lead to a happy ending. Consider the immense power and threat that is Reapers.  Consider that billions have died already, that whole star systems are being destroyed, Earth is in ruins, and several of your own former crewmates died.

Are you going to call on space magic to make everything right? Or are you interested only in your own little happy ending, with your LI and blue babies, while the rest of the galaxy goes to hell?

I honestly don't understand, how is it possible to reach a happy ending, given the circumstances.

No one wants to retcon what happened before we reach the starchild. No one's asking to bring back Thane or Mordin or Anderson. People are sad about that but fine. What we would like is for the choice for Shepard to have as a happy an ending as possible from this point forward. If you don't want that, that's ok because you can pick a sad option that feels like a better ending to your Shepard's story. However many don't feel that Shepard has to die for their story to make sense.

[Joccaren]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...
You know, if you build enough alliances, and take a lot of effort into the game,

...Then you delay the inevitable defeat and destruction long enough to make some crucial choices. That's the mood of the whole game, and you're being reminded of it again and again and again.

If this is true than it is a flaw in the entire game. The last two games gave the impression to a lot of people that 'Unite the Galaxy, you can win'. 'Unite your team, you can win'. 'If something is impossible, you can do it'.
Instead, the promise of 'No ancient Reaper off Button' is broken, and we are given a magic bullet to force a linear and tragic narrative instead of the nonlinear epic we started. I'm sorry, but the previous games gave me every impression that we would win - as did ME3's codex. I was surprised when I found out how weak Reapers were according to the Codex, but they carry plot shields in ME3 sadly.

Yes, the choices suck. But the mood is right.

Many of us respectfully disagree.

[PsyrenY]

Joccaren wrote...

That is your opinion. Obviously, you are not cut out for Role Playing, or Role Playing Games if you believe that getting the perfect ending is the only true result. Learn to Role Play, then broaden your views, and come back to me.

I have learned to roleplay, which is why I support the decision of a company that obviously knows far more about it than you do.

If it's any consolation, Penny Arcade wrote your happy ending for you, so enjoy!

[Kandon Arc]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...
You know, if you build enough alliances, and take a lot of effort into the game,

...Then you delay the inevitable defeat and destruction long enough to make some crucial choices. That's the mood of the whole game, and you're being reminded of it again and again and again.

And throughout ME2, we were preparing for a suicide mission and were told that it was unlikely we would return. Hence all the loyalty missions being about tying up loose ends. But we had the option for everyone to die, the option for everyone to survive, and everything in between.

Don't mistake dramatic tension for inevitability.

[Sgt Stryker]

Garrus' home is destroyed and it's unclear if his family is alive or dead. Liara's home is destroyed. Thane and Mordin die. Legion sacrifices itself (themselves?). If the genophage is cured, there is no telling what the krogan will do next. And at the end of the day, even if we get a hypothetical new ending where Shepard survives and is reunited with LI/crew, the Reapers are totally defeated, and the relays aren't broken, the galaxy still face an uncertain future. People like Shepard won't have time to settle down and live a "normal" life while they're busy rebuilding their homeworlds and protecting themselves against the kind of opportunists that emerge after these kinds of disasters. I think that's a sufficient amount of grimdark.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 06 avril 2012 - 01:35 .

[Rhiens VI]

YukiFA wrote...
What is wrong with having Shepard survive and having them continue their relationship that they may have cultivated through three games?

IF Shepard's mission is complete AND he or she survives, then nothing's wrong with that. Weren't we promised "possible re-unification with the crew" already?

And I still wouldn't call this a "happy" ending.

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

That is your opinion. Obviously, you are not cut out for Role Playing, or Role Playing Games if you believe that getting the perfect ending is the only true result. Learn to Role Play, then broaden your views, and come back to me.

I have learned to roleplay, which is why I support the decision of a company that obviously knows far more about it than you do.

If it's any consolation, Penny Arcade wrote your happy ending for you, so enjoy!

If you want to roleplay than why would you think that having a happiest ending invalidates the others? I know many people who lost members in the suicide mission but didn't want to go back and correct it because it made them feel more involved in their own story.

[Grasich]

People seem to think the overall theme in ME is Dark. Which it isn't. At all.

Lots of death does not = Dark game.

There is so much more hope overshadowing the darkness in ME that overall, I'd say it's a bright game.

Amnesia is a dark game, and the dark ending fits it well. There is never any hope in it, nor is the goal to save anything. The only goal is to murder Alexander, nothing more, nothing less. Mass Effect has so many moments of hope throughout that a dark ending just doesn't fit.

Even then, it's a game about choice, and so the ending should reflect our choices. There should be at least 1 "you lose" ending, and at least 1 "happy" ending (no star wars medal ceremony needed, just reunite Shep and his LI and crew, finally able to be at peace). Personally, after all the death and destruction that occurred, I would call that a "bittersweet" ending.

[someone else]

What there should have been is a choice between merely sending the reapers back to dark space for another 50K and finding personal refuge with an LI or comrades, or a final battle or sacrifice ending the threat forever.

Modifié par someone else, 06 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[Rhiens VI]

Kandon Arc wrote...
What we would like is for the choice for Shepard to have as a happy an ending as possible from this point forward.

Happy for Shepard? Or happy for the galaxy? Because those two goals, if not mutually exclusive, are still rather contradictory.

[vlherg]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Then suggest a choice that would lead to a happy ending. Consider the immense power and threat that is Reapers.  Consider that billions have died already, that whole star systems are being destroyed, Earth is in ruins, and several of your own former crewmates died.

Are you going to call on space magic to make everything right? Or are you interested only in your own little happy ending, with your LI and blue babies, while the rest of the galaxy goes to hell?

I honestly don't understand, how is it possible to reach a happy ending, given the circumstances.

Legion, Mordin, Thane, Ashley/Kaidan and Anderson all dead. Possibly Wrex, Grunt, Tali, Miranda, Kelly, Samara, EDI, Ashley/Kaidan and Jack also dead. is that not sacrifice enough? Is losing your own (Shepard's) life the only way to express sacrifice? It can't be because if you play enough multiplayer Shepard lives.

When people call for a happy ending they don't mean something where all the people they lost magically come back to life, they mostly mean Shepard reunited with his/her love interest and remaining crew. For some it also means the Mass Relays not being destroyed.

Essentially what we want is a real bittersweet ending instead of the purely bitter ending we get now.

[PsyrenY]

Kandon Arc wrote...

If you want to roleplay than why would you think that having a happiest ending invalidates the others? I know many people who lost members in the suicide mission but didn't want to go back and correct it because it made them feel more involved in their own story.

Because I don't think that victory against overwhelming force should be without sacrifice. I don't think that "and they build the thing and shoot the Reapers and win forever" has any narrative impact.

You want good roleplaying? Being forced to choose between Ashley and Kaidan, or Mordin and Wrex+Krogans - the inability to magically save everyone in those instances is what made those choices resonate meaningfully. It gave them weight, and impact. And it made Shepard's unravelling self-control much more believable.

Let me ask you something: on Rannoch, which did you choose, Geth or Quarians?

[Rhiens VI]

Joccaren wrote...

The last two games gave the impression to a lot of people that 'Unite the Galaxy, you can win'. 'Unite your team, you can win'. 'If something is impossible, you can do it'.

I agree with this, but the tone changes in ME3, way before the much-hated ending. There's doom and gloom right from the beginning. If you want to call it a flaw, fine, it's your opinion.

Personally, I'm all for "screw you, star child, we're going to make our last stand and win this war conventionally" option. But don't kid yourself, you ain't gonna win.

[Sgt Stryker]

Yeah guys these dark themes are present throughout the entire series!

Oh hi Grunt!

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 06 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[Rhiens VI]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Yeah guys these dark themes are present throughout the entire series!

Oh hi Grunt!

Hi Shepard !

Your point being?

[Rhiens VI]

vlherg wrote...

Legion, Mordin, Thane, Ashley/Kaidan and Anderson all dead. Possibly Wrex, Grunt, Tali, Miranda, Kelly, Samara, EDI, Ashley/Kaidan and Jack also dead. is that not sacrifice enough? Is losing your own (Shepard's) life the only way to express sacrifice? It can't be because if you play enough multiplayer Shepard lives.

Sacrificing Shepard's life fits the game, in my opinion. And yes, there's a chance for Shepard to survive. And I'd leave it at that, personally. There are more glaring problems with the ending.

[Sgt Stryker]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Yeah guys these dark themes are present throughout the entire series!

Oh hi Grunt!

Hi Shepard !

Your point being?

Hi broken relays that may or may not have just ended more lives than any one Reaper ever could!

[Osiris273]

Cuz tru art iz depresssing herr derr

[nomoredruggs]

Optimystic_X wrote...

If there is a "happy golden ending" then all other endings become meaningless, Nonstandard Game Over.

It's like finishing one of those old adventure games with less than perfect score. It doesn't mean you had a different artistic experience, it means you ****ed up and missed something somewhere.

Not necessarily. I can see a lot of people wanting to have a Shep that screws up, for example, and another Shep that succeeds.

In DA:O you could either sacrifice yourself, someone else, or make a deal with Morrigan. People don't consider sacrificing their Warden a nonstandard game over. For some characters, it is the best ending, for some others, cutting a deal and walking away is.

Also in ME2, although there is an optimal ending, people choose to have alternative playthroughs with different scenarios.

[nomoredruggs]

Rhiens VI wrote...

Deventh wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

There are choices but there is also theme. It ain't the Sims.

Oh thank for your insightful comment!
This is also an rpg and choices matter (or do they?) so i want to have a happy ending.

Then suggest a choice that would lead to a happy ending. Consider the immense power and threat that is Reapers.  Consider that billions have died already, that whole star systems are being destroyed, Earth is in ruins, and several of your own former crewmates died.

Are you going to call on space magic to make everything right? Or are you interested only in your own little happy ending, with your LI and blue babies, while the rest of the galaxy goes to hell?

I honestly don't understand, how is it possible to reach a happy ending, given the circumstances.

Well... in order for you to survive, the entirety of synthetic life has to die...Edi, which you have managed to "humanize", and the Geth, which have just become individuals and made peace with their creators.

That's a pretty big sacrifice right there.

Modifié par nomoredruggs, 06 avril 2012 - 02:14 .

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

If you want to roleplay than why would you think that having a happiest ending invalidates the others? I know many people who lost members in the suicide mission but didn't want to go back and correct it because it made them feel more involved in their own story.

Because I don't think that victory against overwhelming force should be without sacrifice. I don't think that "and they build the thing and shoot the Reapers and win forever" has any narrative impact.

You want good roleplaying? Being forced to choose between Ashley and Kaidan, or Mordin and Wrex+Krogans - the inability to magically save everyone in those instances is what made those choices resonate meaningfully. It gave them weight, and impact. And it made Shepard's unravelling self-control much more believable.

Let me ask you something: on Rannoch, which did you choose, Geth or Quarians?

But there's plenty of sacrifice in the game already. Mordin, Thane, Legion, Anderson, Cortez at the very least. Why is Shepard's death the only acceptable sacrifice for you?

You talk about things "magically" happening makes them bad but seem to ignore that we got a dark ending where things "magically" happened anyway. If a dark ending can have things that magically happen, logically a happy ending can be bereft of things magically happening.