305 réponses à ce sujet

[legion999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

eoinnx03 wrote...

I wanted an ending like ME 2. You play well invest time and you have the chance to come out the other side.
Dam I wanted my Shep to have the chance to have ''little blue children''

Then pick destroy and get 5000 ems. You weren't going to knock up Legion were you?

ShadowJ20 wrote...

We want MULTIPLE endings.

Three is multiple.

Red, green and blue.

I love how the same choice in a pokemon game leads to greater variation.

Modifié par legion999, 06 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[Cgrissom]

Aslanasadi wrote...

I hate dark and depressing endings. I can't stand them and normally I don't watch movies or read books, when I know they have this kind of endings. I don't mind that others love to sacrifice the hero and enjoy these endings, but I would want to have a little brighter ending, which means Shepard alive and reunited with Crew and LI. This is just my personal taste and I don't care if it's cliché or not.

I personally agree with you. I've never much liked dark and depressing endings. Though ultimately I mainly care that the ending makes sense. If the hero has to die, that's fine.... If, and only if, there is a good reason for it.

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

But there's plenty of sacrifice in the game already. Mordin, Thane, Legion, Anderson, Cortez at the very least. Why is Shepard's death the only acceptable sacrifice for you?

You're wrong: Shepard doesn't have to die. This was confirmed by Merizan.

For the characters you mentioned - Mordin and Thane were near the end of their lives anyway. It isn't true sacrifice when someone on their deathbed gives up their life - true sacrifice is the person with their whole life ahead of them giving it away for the good of all.

Legion's "death" wasn't. All his memories and experiences went out to all geth, it would be child's play for them to make another platform that knows everything that he knew and even shares his opinions.

We don't know that Anderson is dead. He got shot once (provided you stopped TIM) and passed out, that doesn't make him dead.

You're also wrong about Cortez - he can be saved, just talk to him more.

Kandon Arc wrote...
You talk about things "magically" happening makes them bad but seem to ignore that we got a dark ending where things "magically" happened anyway. If a dark ending can have things that magically happen, logically a happy ending can be bereft of things magically happening.

I don't think magic makes things bad. I think defeating impossible odds with no sacrifice makes them bad.

The current endings involve sacrifice, thus I think they're fine.

If you're just talking about sacrifice in the abstract, rather than loss of life, then there's a ****load of sacrifice you're ignoring.

- Shepard dedicating 5 years of his life to fighting the Reapers. He could have walked away at any point. Not to mention constantly sacrificing his safety by going into dangerous situations.

- Anderson staying behind on Earth to fight the Reapers when he could have left with Shepard.

- I'm sorry but Mordin absolutely sacrificed himself. He was old sure, but he had a good few years left. Or are all old people incapable of sacrifice now?

- Grunt sacrificing himself to save Shepard. The fact that he survived is irrelevant, he made the choice fully expecting to die.

Everyone in Mass Effect has made amazing sacrifices already to stop the Reapers. Shepard surviving does not mean that no sacrifice was involved.

[malakim2099]

Let me ask you something: on Rannoch, which did you choose, Geth or Quarians?

I chose peace. And they both joined my Kick Reaper #### Tour as a result.

Personally, I blame White Wolf/World of Darkness RPGs for this whole "darkness/angst is necessary" BS. I don't mind sacrifice, and we see a lot of it throughout the entire game. And considering the fact the galaxy is in ruins regardless of how the battle of Earth turns out... I don't think an ending where Shepard reunites with her crew is that horrible.

Still not sold on the Saren (Green/Synthesis) or Timmy (Blue/Control) endings, though. They never DID come out and say that the Indoctrination theory is invalidated, did they?

Modifié par malakim2099, 06 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[Pedro Costa]

Biotic Sage wrote...

...I thought we were too.  I was implying that a "happy ending" would be inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy.  Endings of stories do fall in the realm of storytelling after all.

Then we didn't defeat Saren and Sovereign and came out of it triumphant?
We didn't defeat the Collectors and came out triumphant with not only your squad but your crew (if you did everything right) alive?
We didn't bring peace to the Quarians and the Geth?
We didn't cure the Genophage?

I'm sorry, but no, it isn't "inconsistent" with the rest of the trilogy. I'd even argue the ones we got *are* actually the inconsistent ones.

Also, we had plenty of sacrifice (assuming you had a triumphant victory one the other two games)...
Didn't we lose Ash/Kaidan/Both?
Didn't we lose Mordin?
Didn't we lose Legion?
Didn't we lose Thane?

But, see, I'm not here to tell you that you should get a happy ending because I want a happy ending. I'm here to try to tell you that people should have a choice on the matter.

And, for the record, to me, "happy ending" means only Shep lives and is reunited with their LI.
Doesn't mean no one dies. Doesn't mean something doesn't have to be sacrificed.

[Bantz]

they could have still very easily made a "happy" ending. They could have had a squad mate die (ala Kaidan/Ashley thing where you can pick one) they could have had shep live but the galaxy be decimated. As it stands even if they did a happy ending the giant fleet of all the races is still greatly damaged and torn up by the reapers. Billions are probably dead at the least. Entire worlds were destroyed and homeworlds (Thessia) eradicated. That's dark enough thank you, there's nothing wrong with having shep survive and be the banner around which the galactic races rally around to rebuild.

[PsyrenY]

nomoredruggs wrote...

Hmm, well, "happy" is perhaps a bit of a vague term.

For
me, happy would be the possibility of my Shepard surviving and
reuniting with her LI and crew, and the feeling that we're gonna try to
rebuilt and make a new start.

Congrats, you can get that ending - see my quote above from Jessica.

garf wrote...

Thing is... it was never about blue babies for me. or farting rainbows ... it was...getting handed three endings by my enemy who 'lets' me win. and finding each ending destroys my universe. gutted me. There is no joy to the game. not anymore. (and yet there was joy for the player when Mordin, Legion, and Thane died. the joy of 'GOOD' endings and sacrifice)

Universe is not "destroyed" - nobody starves to death and even the mass relays can be rebuilt. This was confirmed yesterday.

[nomoredruggs]

Bantz wrote...

they could have still very easily made a "happy" ending. They could have had a squad mate die (ala Kaidan/Ashley thing where you can pick one) they could have had shep live but the galaxy be decimated. As it stands even if they did a happy ending the giant fleet of all the races is still greatly damaged and torn up by the reapers. Billions are probably dead at the least. Entire worlds were destroyed and homeworlds (Thessia) eradicated. That's dark enough thank you, there's nothing wrong with having shep survive and be the banner around which the galactic races rally around to rebuild.

Yup.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, throwing the term "happy" ending around.

[vlherg]

Optimystic_X wrote...

[
You're wrong: Shepard doesn't have to die. This was confirmed by Merizan.

Is this the same Merizan who said the Normandy crashed on Earth? And when it was pointed out that the planet had 2 moons changed it to Mars? The well known jungle planet Mars...
I wouldn't put too much faith in what she says.

Optimystic_X wrote...

We don't know that Anderson is dead. He got shot once (provided you stopped TIM) and passed out, that doesn't make him dead.

Pretty sure that when the Citadel blew up he would have died. Or when it closed up and flew away there wasn't much chance of medical intervention for him.

Where your opinion is that you can only experience sacrifice by your own death, there are a lot of other people who can understand it through the deaths of others. Maybe you're a little too self focussed.

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

nomoredruggs wrote...
Also in ME2, although there is an optimal ending, people choose to have alternative playthroughs with different scenarios.

The fact that you can choose to save everyone in ME2 means that doing less is due to incompetence on your Shepard's part. You can spin this any way you want, but if it is within your capability to avoid sacrifice and you don't, you messed up.

Take the example of the Tali vs Legion argument in ME2. If I'm roleplaying a rabidly anti-Quarian Shepard and therefore side with Legion, I'm not going to think that losing Tali's loyalty constitutes me "messing up". Similarly if I don't upgrade my ship because I think it's more important to get through the Omega relay asap than go around scanning planets, then I wouldn't consider myself having messed up either.

Your Shepard still messed up because focusing both folks on the true threat is his job. Siding with Legion runs counter to your true mission because you need all of them (for all you know.)

And your squad tells you multiple times that not upgrading the ship means people WILL die, ignoring these warnings is also a failure. Presumably they know what they're talking about. (Garrus knows guns, Tali knows tech, Jacob knows military hardware.)

Again, you can rationalize this stuff and justify running off half-cocked all you want, but you still end up with the simple fact that had your Shepard tried harder s/he would not have done so poorly.

No golden ending in ME3 means that you can try your hardest and still have to make hard choices. Welcome to real life.

And the reason you think this is because you're playing it like a game where you need to reach the high score. A roleplayer doesn't. Of course Shepard will have messed up if he does any of these things because he could have done it better. However Shepard doesn't know that.

He doesn't know that he had the time to collect all the minerals. Even when he sees the deaths he caused he can argue that if he hadn't come when he did, hundreds more colonists would have died, therefore those were necessary sacrifices.

[nomoredruggs]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Congrats, you can get that ending - see my quote above from Jessica.

Yeah, I know, I've seen the tweet, and I'm hoping clarification of this particular ending will actually include that.

[Bantz]

nomoredruggs wrote...

Bantz wrote...

they could have still very easily made a "happy" ending. They could have had a squad mate die (ala Kaidan/Ashley thing where you can pick one) they could have had shep live but the galaxy be decimated. As it stands even if they did a happy ending the giant fleet of all the races is still greatly damaged and torn up by the reapers. Billions are probably dead at the least. Entire worlds were destroyed and homeworlds (Thessia) eradicated. That's dark enough thank you, there's nothing wrong with having shep survive and be the banner around which the galactic races rally around to rebuild.

Yup.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, throwing the term "happy" ending around.

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

[PsyrenY]

Kandon Arc wrote...
If you're just talking about sacrifice in the abstract, rather than loss of life, then there's a ****load of sacrifice you're ignoring.

- Shepard dedicating 5 years of his life to fighting the Reapers. He could have walked away at any point. Not to mention constantly sacrificing his safety by going into dangerous situations.

- Anderson staying behind on Earth to fight the Reapers when he could have left with Shepard.

- I'm sorry but Mordin absolutely sacrificed himself. He was old sure, but he had a good few years left. Or are all old people incapable of sacrifice now?

- Grunt sacrificing himself to save Shepard. The fact that he survived is irrelevant, he made the choice fully expecting to die.

Everyone in Mass Effect has made amazing sacrifices already to stop the Reapers. Shepard surviving does not mean that no sacrifice was involved.

1) Walked away and done what? Fought batarians and mercs? Heretics? Open pizza parlor? Shepard was doing his/her job, it's not sacrifice to do what is expected of you.

2) Anderson could have left with shepard to do WHAT exactly? Hold gun and join squad? Stand behind Shep and banter with Tali and Jack? Take over your quarters while you bunk with Liara? Again - he was doing his job, i.e. what was expected of him.

3) Old people are indeed capable of sacrifice, but the sacrifice means less if you're near death anyway. Same goes for Thane. Plus both were ready to die due to being ridden with guilt.

4) Grunt is actually a great example - you sacrifice either his team of "1337 krogan" or you doom the Rachni to extinction; and you do so with the threat of the Rachni being controlled a third time. There is no golden way out of that either.

5) Again, Shepard can survive, why do you keep saying otherwise?

[vlherg]

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

True. We want real bittersweet, not the pure bitter we were given

[nomoredruggs]

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

Shep: Kaidan, I thought you were dead!
Kaidan: I got better.

haha thx that made my day

[PsyrenY]

vlherg wrote...

Is this the same Merizan who said the Normandy crashed on Earth? And when it was pointed out that the planet had 2 moons changed it to Mars? The well known jungle planet Mars...
I wouldn't put too much faith in what she says.

Well if you're going to doubt Bioware then why believe anything in the endings at all? Go join the Indoctrinators.

vlherg wrote..

Pretty sure that when the Citadel blew up he would have died. Or when it closed up and flew away there wasn't much chance of medical intervention for him.

http://tvtropes.org/...verFoundTheBody

Your "pretty sure" is still just conjecture.

vlherg wrote..
Where your opinion is that you can only experience sacrifice by your own death, there are a lot of other people who can understand it through the deaths of others. Maybe you're a little too self focussed.

For the last time, Shepard can survive if you want. I never said Shepard's death is necessary. Can you try reading comprehension just once?

[TheChris92]

All I know is that it should have ended like this.

[Annora]

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

That's what you want. I have seen plenty of people asking for "Disney" endings, too. That's the thing about people, they have different opinions. Happy means something different to everyone.

[tobiasks]

Anastassia wrote...

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

That's what you want. I have seen plenty of people asking for "Disney" endings, too. That's the thing about people, they have different opinions. Happy means something different to everyone.

No actually it seems pretty clear to me most retakers want the same thing as he wants. Most people jus want you to survive and be with your LI, and most just want this as a possible ending. I'm not gonna lie, this is exactly the same thing I want.

Modifié par tobiasks, 06 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[Bantz]

Anastassia wrote...

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

That's what you want. I have seen plenty of people asking for "Disney" endings, too. That's the thing about people, they have different opinions. Happy means something different to everyone.

True, but I'd bet you my life that if they put in an ending where the galaxy is still decimated but shep lives and is reunited with his LI/friends and gets to be the hero the races rally around and rebuild. They build a new (non reaper controled) citadel and humanity gets a real voice on the council. that even the disney wanters would be fine with it.

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...
If you're just talking about sacrifice in the abstract, rather than loss of life, then there's a ****load of sacrifice you're ignoring.

- Shepard dedicating 5 years of his life to fighting the Reapers. He could have walked away at any point. Not to mention constantly sacrificing his safety by going into dangerous situations.

- Anderson staying behind on Earth to fight the Reapers when he could have left with Shepard.

- I'm sorry but Mordin absolutely sacrificed himself. He was old sure, but he had a good few years left. Or are all old people incapable of sacrifice now?

- Grunt sacrificing himself to save Shepard. The fact that he survived is irrelevant, he made the choice fully expecting to die.

Everyone in Mass Effect has made amazing sacrifices already to stop the Reapers. Shepard surviving does not mean that no sacrifice was involved.

1) Walked away and done what? Fought batarians and mercs? Heretics? Open pizza parlor? Shepard was doing his/her job, it's not sacrifice to do what is expected of you.

2) Anderson could have left with shepard to do WHAT exactly? Hold gun and join squad? Stand behind Shep and banter with Tali and Jack? Take over your quarters while you bunk with Liara? Again - he was doing his job, i.e. what was expected of him.

3) Old people are indeed capable of sacrifice, but the sacrifice means less if you're near death anyway. Same goes for Thane. Plus both were ready to die due to being ridden with guilt.

4) Grunt is actually a great example - you sacrifice either his team of "1337 krogan" or you doom the Rachni to extinction; and you do so with the threat of the Rachni being controlled a third time. There is no golden way out of that either.

5) Again, Shepard can survive, why do you keep saying otherwise?

1) I guess soldiers or firefighters sacrifice nothing, because they are just doing their job. More to the point, Shepard isn't just doing his job. He disobeys orders to go to Ilos, he works with the Illusive Man even though TIM says he is free to leave. Not to mention that he isn't a conscript. He can resign his post if he wants.

2) Anderson could have helped form alliances on the Citadel. More to the point, staying to fight when you have the oppurtinity to flee is almost the defintion of a sacrifice.

3) So they do sacrifice things then?

4) I don't really see what we're arguing about on this one, I've already said I was fine with sacrifices being made.

5) Here is where I'm a bit confused. The only shared component of most peoples happy ending is an alive Shepard reuniting with their LI/crew. If you have no problem with this then what are you arguing against?

As to Merizan's tweets I'll wait before I can make any decision on that, I remember being told I wouldn't get an A, B or C ending also.

[Bantz]

nomoredruggs wrote...

Bantz wrote...

I think the misunderstanding is between "happy" and "Disney". I don't want us to kill the reapers and have hacket say "Great job shep, we had very few losses, everyone is uninjured your friends are safe, and oh remember how Kaidan died on virmire? Son of a **** just showed up, little bit injured but I'll be damned if he didn't make it. Reapers are dead, the geth just flew to thessia to rebuild it oh and your woman just said she's pregnant? maybe you should have just died to mr. Shields."

That's disney.

Happy means you get to live and enjoy what remains of your life while the races rebuild through the devistation.

Shep: Kaidan, I thought you were dead!
Kaidan: I got better.

haha thx that made my day

hey that's what I'm here for buddy, in this sad, dark times we gotta stick together and try to cheer each other up.

[Grissmin]

tobiasks wrote...

No actually it seems pretty clear to me most people want the same thing as he wants. Most people just you to live and be with your LI.

This

[PsyrenY]

Kandon Arc wrote...

1) I guess soldiers or firefighters sacrifice nothing, because they are just doing their job. More to the point, Shepard isn't just doing his job. He disobeys orders to go to Ilos, he works with the Illusive Man even though TIM says he is free to leave. Not to mention that he isn't a conscript. He can resign his post if he wants.

2) Anderson could have helped form alliances on the Citadel. More to the point, staying to fight when you have the oppurtinity to flee is almost the defintion of a sacrifice.

3) So they do sacrifice things then?

4) I don't really see what we're arguing about on this one, I've already said I was fine with sacrifices being made.

5) Here is where I'm a bit confused. The only shared component of most peoples happy ending is an alive Shepard reuniting with their LI/crew. If you have no problem with this then what are you arguing against?

As to Merizan's tweets I'll wait before I can make any decision on that, I remember being told I wouldn't get an A, B or C ending also.

1) Poor logic again, of course disobeying orders was a sacrifice - he risked being court-martialled or worse by defying the lockdown, and the entire crew risked it too by going with him. And he risked it all again by joining Cerberus, a terorrist group, in ME2.
As for firefighters and soldiers, they know what they sign up for. It's when they go above and beyond the call of duty that they truly sacrifice. You don't get purple heart for just doing basic training every day, you know?

2) Helped form alliances how? He is bad at politics, he said so himself. Where he stayed was the best spot for him.

3) I never said they didn't, reread my posts. I said it was less.

4) Then what are YOU arguing against?

5) I'm arguing against golden ending with no hard choices. The current endings force you to choose between retiring with your LI and saving the Geth, and I'm okay with that.

[jumpingkaede]

Because epic means everyone has to die at the end.

There's never been an epic story, trilogy or movie where the hero survives and there's a happy ending, even though great sacrifices were made throughout.