305 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Putting aside the question of
whether Shepard does actually survive in Destroy/Red, seeing as how Mass
Effect is fiction, and the options are in Bioware's hands, I'm really
just wondering why there isn't an option to save the galaxy AND save
Shepard.

You DO have that option. The Geth are not the only race in the galaxy.

Kandon Arc wrote...

No because you could believe the catalyst and decide that by destroying the Reapers  you were dooming organic life, therefore you would choose synthesis. Or a Renegade could agree with TIM and control the Reapers to establish Human dominance over the other races. This is what I mean about roleplay rather than just trying to go for the high score.

And those two options require sacrificing yourself, so they are fine.

Destroy, being the one that doesn't kill you, needed a different drawback - otherwise most (especially the Indoctrinaters) would see it as the "true" ending, when there isn't supposed to BE a "true" ending.

[The Edge]

Hey, Bioware said there would be variations. Doesn't matter how I feel about it, but the fact that their statements regarding the ending don't match the final product is why a) they need changing or Bioware needs to come out and address the lies.

And yes, a happy ending would be lovely, along with a few grey endings and a hopeless ending.

[LightweightJustice]

I apologize if I de-rail the topic but why BG trilogy didn't end with PC's death? It's epic, it includes war, tragedy, love, friends, enemies, hard decisions. Why?

[ApuLunas]

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

[RyanPun1991]

 I'm not a big enough hipster to say no to happy endings.
little blue children... still waiting:?
and why do people keep saying a war with the Reapers without sacrifice is blah blah blah
Dude, no matter what ending you get, there are a whole bunch of people who sacrificed on the way
let me sum it up
****load of Turians
****load of Asari
****load of Human

plus the personal friends we know 

Ending
Anderson (and possibly squadmates with low ems)
Quarian/Geth Arc
Legion (and possibly all other Geth, or all Quarians, plus Admiral Koris or his crew
Cerberus Coup
Thane (or Kirrahe, or Salarian councilor, plus VS if **** happens, Kelly if not warned)
Krogan/Turian/Salarian Arc
Mordin (and possibly Wrex later on if you sabotage the cure, plus Aralakh company or last Rachni Queen, and possibly Grunt. Also Lt. Victus)

Plus, Jack, Kahlee, David Archer, Falare, Brynn Cole, Gavin Archer and I think Samara and Jacob as well, are pretty much all gonna die with you choose not to do side missions.

pretty sure I missed others too
There's your sacrifice

Modifié par RyanPun1991, 06 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[jumpingkaede]

Optimystic_X wrote...

In ME1 the whole goal was to keep them in dark space - preventing the attack entirely rather than fighting them head-on. That itself was a pretty big hint that they were not to be messed with.

ME2 was barely about Reapers at all until Arrival.

I guess you and I see the games differently.  I agree that ME1 was about keeping the Reapers in dark space... as opposed to being caught completely unprepared by the Reapers.  

ME2, agreed, sort of.  But if humanity's survival hinged on something like finding long-lost Prothean tech, that's a pretty thin line.  In retrospect, it makes Shepard's decision to destroy the Collector Base look like idiocy.  (If that option was taken).

It raises the question in my mind as to what the Turians and Alliance were actually planning.  More importantly, it raises a question as to what Shepard was planning.

If Bioware's intent was to make the Reapers invincible, it just seems like a poor creative decision.  And they shouldn't have let us beat Sovereign in the first place.  Or shown the Leviathan of Dis.  Or let us destroy the smaller Reapers early on in ME3.

Because what ME3 tells us is that if it weren't for placing all our eggs in one completely unknown and untested basket (how they even know it's an Anti-Reaper weapon or think it'll work since it didn't even work for the Protheans is left to speculation) the galaxy would have been doomed anyway.  And Shepard/Hackett had absolutely no contingency plan.

So why were we assembling that superfleet again?  And running fetch sidequests to add more war assets?  Just to protect the Crucible?  Why?  The Crucible didn't even really need protecting since they didn't know that it needed to be in the Citadel NOR did they know that the Citadel had been taken.

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

No because you could believe the catalyst and decide that by destroying the Reapers  you were dooming organic life, therefore you would choose synthesis. Or a Renegade could agree with TIM and control the Reapers to establish Human dominance over the other races. This is what I mean about roleplay rather than just trying to go for the high score.

Destroy, being the one that doesn't kill you, needed a different drawback - otherwise most (especially the Indoctrinaters) would see it as the "true" ending, when there isn't supposed to BE a "true" ending.

What's the drawback in Destroy?  That the Geth are doomed?  (Which didn't deter me for more than 5 seconds and I love Legion and the Geth).  It actually just seemed like the obvious choice to me because the other two endings had obvious drawbacks.  Destroy was a no-brainer, by comparison.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 06 avril 2012 - 03:44 .

[Kandon Arc]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

No because you could believe the catalyst and decide that by destroying the Reapers  you were dooming organic life, therefore you would choose synthesis. Or a Renegade could agree with TIM and control the Reapers to establish Human dominance over the other races. This is what I mean about roleplay rather than just trying to go for the high score.

And those two options require sacrificing yourself, so they are fine.

Destroy, being the one that doesn't kill you, needed a different drawback - otherwise most (especially the Indoctrinaters) would see it as the "true" ending, when there isn't supposed to BE a "true" ending.

I think you've missed my point here. Even if Shepard survived in all of them, they inherently all have drawbacks. Synthesis ignores free will and imposes fundamental change on everyone, Control subjugates all other races. Destroy opens you up to the possibility of a synthetic revoloution in the future.

Who cares what other people consider to be the "true" ending in game like Mass Effect? Pick the one you want, let others pick the one they want; that's the beauty of the system.

[LightweightJustice]

ApuLunas wrote...

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

Sooooo...you are saying that in age of 22 I must think only about death, economic crisis, political corruption, wars, job crisis and expensive medical treatment? You know I would like to think about something brighter for a change.

Modifié par LightweightJustice, 06 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[christrek1982]

ApuLunas wrote...

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

you do know that what you just said make you sound more childish oooooh look at me I like dark and dipressing so I must be all grown up

[Bantz]

Again the whole "shep lives if you do it right" argument doesn't hold much water with me. Let's break this down

Shep is badly injured upon meeting space brat
shep picks destroy and walks into flying shrapnel and explosions
Shep has a lot of synthetic implants which are all destroyed from the inside out
Shep is on citadel when it explodes
Either reenters earth or is someone still breathing in the floating rubble of the citadel in space
No one knows he's alive which means it will be at best hours before anyone finds him, in that state he wouldn't likely live long enough to be found.

And that's the "best" ending we can get.

[jumpingkaede]

LightweightJustice wrote...

ApuLunas wrote...

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

Sooooo...you are saying that in age of 22 I must think only about death, economic crisis, political corruption, wars, job crisis and expensive medical treatment? Aha.

He's too hipster for happy endings. 

[CaliGuy033]

And now, a logical fallacy:

"This is an RPG and my choices are supposed to matter." --> "I must be able to choose a happy ending, if I want it."

[Kandon Arc]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

And now, a logical fallacy:

"This is an RPG and my choices are supposed to matter." --> "I must be able to choose a happy ending, if I want it."

I think that should be 
"I must be able to achieve a happy ending, if I've worked for it."  

[PsyrenY]

Bantz wrote...

Again the whole "shep lives if you do it right" argument doesn't hold much water with me. Let's break this down

Shep is badly injured upon meeting space brat
shep picks destroy and walks into flying shrapnel and explosions
Shep has a lot of synthetic implants which are all destroyed from the inside out
Shep is on citadel when it explodes
Either reenters earth or is someone still breathing in the floating rubble of the citadel in space
No
one knows he's alive which means it will be at best hours before anyone
finds him, in that state he wouldn't likely live long enough to be
found.

And that's the "best" ending we can get.

Bioware has confirmed that you live in that ending, so your whole list is a waste of text.

RyanPun1991 wrote...


****load of Turians
****load of Asari
****load of Human

Monkeysphere - these faceless masses mean nothing.

RyanPun1991 wrote...
Ending
Anderson (and possibly squadmates with low ems)
Quarian/Geth Arc
Legion (and possibly all other Geth, or all Quarians, plus Admiral Koris or his crew
Cerberus Coup
Thane (or Kirrahe, or Salarian councilor, plus VS if **** happens, Kelly if not warned)
Krogan/Turian/Salarian Arc
Mordin (and possibly Wrex later on if you sabotage the cure, plus Aralakh company or last Rachni Queen, and possibly Grunt. Also Lt. Victus)

Plus, Jack, Kahlee, David Archer, Falare, Brynn Cole, Gavin Archer and I think Samara and Jacob as well, are pretty much all gonna die with you choose not to do side missions.

pretty sure I missed others too
There's your sacrifice

You call that "sacrifice?"

Anderson and squad can live
Quarian and Geth can both be saved
Legion's "death" has no significance
Faceless masses die in Cerberus coup, meaningless
Thane was dying anyway, Kirrahe and Valern can be saved
Eve and Wrex can be saved
Mordin was close to death (and riddled with guilt) anyway
Arlakh company is a bunch of nameless krogan in pretty armor
Grunt and RQ can both be saved
Tarquin is a nobody
Everyone in your last sentence can be saved.

You're basically saying "if you suck, you can sacrifice a bunch of people you don't care about!" That's a false choice and meaningless sacrifice.

Meaningful sacrifice/tradeoffs can't be avoided just by "playing better." You can't save both Ashley and Kaidan; that is meaningful. People have debated it for years and are still debating it. Whereas anyone who says "I killed the Quarians!" or "I killed the Geth!" is simply trolling.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 06 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[HinduCowGirl]

I'm one of those who want a happy ending. Not just because of a happy ending, but because that was what I was striving for in the game. An ending that would unite the galaxy and of course that Shepard would be united with LI and live happily ever after...

If I wanted a ****** up ending with nothing but misery, pain and destruction of everything I tried to gain, then I would just take a look out the window or watch the news - 'cause this reality is quite a ****** up place. So let us please please please please have at least one place, one game, one "escape from reality" where OUR choices will be accounted for. Not just another doomsday game where everything we did in the end was linear and worth nothing.

Everything about gigantic plot holes and other stuff has already been mentioned. And that last min introduction of a whole new character was really a total epic moronic fail of biblical proportions.

[christrek1982]

Bantz wrote...

Again the whole "shep lives if you do it right" argument doesn't hold much water with me. Let's break this down

Shep is badly injured upon meeting space brat
shep picks destroy and walks into flying shrapnel and explosions
Shep has a lot of synthetic implants which are all destroyed from the inside out
Shep is on citadel when it explodes
Either reenters earth or is someone still breathing in the floating rubble of the citadel in space
No one knows he's alive which means it will be at best hours before anyone finds him, in that state he wouldn't likely live long enough to be found.

And that's the "best" ending we can get.

so then whats the reword for trying and diong everything if all the ending are the same whats the point in doing all the fetch quests? or the N7?

[RyanPun1991]

LightweightJustice wrote...

ApuLunas wrote...

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

Sooooo...you are saying that in age of 22 I must think only about death, economic crisis, political corruption, wars, job crisis and expensive medical treatment? You know I would like to think about something brighter for a change.

Ya I think about those things at school, at work, when I watch the news...
If that's what I have to think about when I play video games, well...
I just wanna unwind (a la Elaine from Seinfeld) 

[PsyrenY]

jumpingkaede wrote...

What's the drawback in Destroy?  That the Geth are doomed?  (Which didn't deter me for more than 5 seconds and I love Legion and the Geth).  It actually just seemed like the obvious choice to me because the other two endings had obvious drawbacks.  Destroy was a no-brainer, by comparison.

You're in the minority here. The majority of people that did not pick destroy, did so because they didn't want to genocide the Geth, not because they selfishly wanted their Shepard to live.

Go ahead, poll the forums, I'll wait.

[ApuLunas]

LightweightJustice wrote...

ApuLunas wrote...

how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

Sooooo...you are saying that in age of 22 I must think only about death, economic crisis, political corruption, wars, job crisis and expensive medical treatment? You know I would like to think about something brighter for a change.

a change time to time won't kill you... me serie is a great chance. if you give it a chance you'll realize what you are missing.

[Alamar2078]

My POV hasn't changed much since this whole thing began. I want a wide range of divergent endings. I'd be happy with a bittersweet of Shep lives, Relays are intact, but TRILLIONS are dead, many planets are devistated, many of your personal friends die, Shep at once is the most loved AND hated person in the galaxy, etc. I'd also like a total downer where everyone dies, the Reapers win, the cycle continues, and the only hope for the future is Liara's "message in the stars".

I also want endings in between that can be tailored to individual Sheps & their decisons.

I want an epilogue showing events from 1 day after, 5 years after, 20 years after, 100 years after, and 50,000 years after so see the fate of everyone.

[PsyrenY]

LightweightJustice wrote...

Sooooo...you are saying that in age of 22 I must think only about death, economic crisis, political corruption, wars, job crisis and expensive medical treatment? You know I would like to think about something brighter for a change.

Then go play Disney games.

[LightweightJustice]

Ok,ok.
We covered the "paragon" happy ending.
but what about "renegade" happy ending. (I know it sounds strange but still)?

[Ryuukishi]

Mass Effect was never a particularly "dark" series in tone despite all the death and chaos involved in the plot. Shepard always found a way to pull through and often without making a significant sacrifice. Determination and smart choices can get you through the supposed "suicide mission" with all 13 participants surviving. I think that right there is proof that Mass Effect was never a brutal/grimdark series.

[RyanPun1991]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Bantz wrote...

Again the whole "shep lives if you do it right" argument doesn't hold much water with me. Let's break this down

Shep is badly injured upon meeting space brat
shep picks destroy and walks into flying shrapnel and explosions
Shep has a lot of synthetic implants which are all destroyed from the inside out
Shep is on citadel when it explodes
Either reenters earth or is someone still breathing in the floating rubble of the citadel in space
No
one knows he's alive which means it will be at best hours before anyone
finds him, in that state he wouldn't likely live long enough to be
found.

And that's the "best" ending we can get.

Bioware has confirmed that you live in that ending, so your whole list is a waste of text.

RyanPun1991 wrote...


****load of Turians
****load of Asari
****load of Human

Monkeysphere - these faceless masses mean nothing.

RyanPun1991 wrote...
Ending
Anderson (and possibly squadmates with low ems)
Quarian/Geth Arc
Legion (and possibly all other Geth, or all Quarians, plus Admiral Koris or his crew
Cerberus Coup
Thane (or Kirrahe, or Salarian councilor, plus VS if **** happens, Kelly if not warned)
Krogan/Turian/Salarian Arc
Mordin (and possibly Wrex later on if you sabotage the cure, plus Aralakh company or last Rachni Queen, and possibly Grunt. Also Lt. Victus)

Plus, Jack, Kahlee, David Archer, Falare, Brynn Cole, Gavin Archer and I think Samara and Jacob as well, are pretty much all gonna die with you choose not to do side missions.

pretty sure I missed others too
There's your sacrifice

You call that "sacrifice?"

Anderson and squad can live
Quarian and Geth can both be saved
Legion's "death" has no significance
Faceless masses die in Cerberus coup, meaningless
Thane was dying anyway, Kirrahe and Valern can be saved
Eve and Wrex can be saved
Mordin was close to death (and riddled with guilt) anyway
Arlakh company is a bunch of nameless krogan in pretty armor
Grunt and RQ can both be saved
Tarquin is a nobody
Everyone in your last sentence can be saved.

You're basically saying "if you suck, you can sacrifice a bunch of people you don't care about!" That's a false choice and meaningless sacrifice.

Meaningful sacrifice/tradeoffs can't be avoided just by "playing better." You can't save both Ashley and Kaidan; that is meaningful. People have debated it for years and are still debating it. Whereas anyone who says "I killed the Quarians!" or "I killed the Geth!" is simply trolling.

So according to you sacrifice only counts if someone important dies, plus if they are already "old" or "sick", then their sacrifice doesn't matter either
Fine:) you define it however way you want to

Plus, I totally acknowledge the fact that many names on my list can be saved  but depending on your choices, some might not make it. I usually do full paragon playthroughs, but not everybody does. I import my ME1 save, but not everybody does.

Plus, whether you care about certain characters or not is totally up to each individual player, and I do care about these characters, but if you don't, cool! won't suck to see them die I guess lol

Modifié par RyanPun1991, 06 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[someone else]

ApuLunas wrote...
how many cinderella story you want to read? aren't you a grown up yet?

My aren't we the adult.   Wanting a consistent ending does not equal cinderella - if you don't understand that the end violates every tenet of good narration, gameplay and the internal dynamics of the series you have not done your homework  (sorry, grown ups don't do homework, I forgot)

an ending that forced shepard to choose between a temporary respite from the reapers (send them back to dark space for another 50k) and personal happiness with LI/comrades or a final confrontation and sacrifice that ends the threat forever would do very nicely on all counts, and I believe provide satisfying alternative for the vast majority