70 réponses à ce sujet

[Schyzm]

Mordaedil wrote...

Did you... Read what you wrote there Schyzm?

Though the current subscriber basis does say 11.5 millions, but still... There's something really off when the expansion packages only sell 4 million. Isn't that more of an indication of how many *really* play it?

if they say they have 11.5 then they have 11.5.  I don't know what "really" play it means, but if your paying them money monthly and not playing it I don't see how that's blizzard's problem.

[Iggynous]

the difficulty discussions always bring up two very opposite points of view



us tactical players who have a history of games like this find nightmare easy



and new players find easy a nightmare



...persinally i think if you find anything hard you needa suck it up, harden up, toughen up, put your head down and work at it, and you'll get good eventually



...and if it's too easy, purposefully limit yourself; like not using CoC, FF or GoP+GoR

[Sloth Of Doom]

Iggynous wrote...

the difficulty discussions always bring up two very opposite points of view

us tactical players who have a history of games like this find nightmare easy

and new players find easy a nightmare

...persinally i think if you find anything hard you needa suck it up, harden up, toughen up, put your head down and work at it, and you'll get good eventually

...and if it's too easy, purposefully limit yourself; like not using CoC, FF or GoP+GoR

This is a good point.  Now on my fourth full plathrough (and a bunch of partials) I have decided to play on nightmare with a mage as my PC, but in order to be challenging my mage has all of the 'spirit' spells instead of insane primal damage or whatever.   I also refuse to use the tanktaunt.FF cheese manuver.  With Alistair Leli and Dog as my party members and this mage with almost no CC or DD the game has becom quite a bit tougher because I chose to make it so.   People who roll nightmare with 3 minmaxed mages then cry that the game is too easy realy need to stfu. :innocent:

[rumination888]

Mordaedil wrote...

Though the current subscriber basis does say 11.5 millions, but still... There's something really off when the expansion packages only sell 4 million. Isn't that more of an indication of how many *really* play it?

...what? Wrath of the Lich King sold waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 4 million. It sold over 5 million boxes alone. Its impossible to track digital sales since theres so many online vendors, but you can bet that the vast majority of the expansion's sales are digital.

[Mordaedil]

rumination888 wrote...

...what? Wrath of the Lich King sold waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 4 million. It sold over 5 million boxes alone. Its impossible to track digital sales since theres so many online vendors, but you can bet that the vast majority of the expansion's sales are digital.

My source.

Is the WoW expansion even available for digital sales? I don't really know.

[Lughsan35]

Slayer D wrote...

Jedis were supposed to be rare. Making jedis rare made them actually worth something. The game wasn't called jedi wars. It's about the universe of star wars, not hundreds of jedis running amok killing each other. The game was already ruined into oblivion by the time they let everyone and their mom be a jedi, anyway. But that's beside the point.

You are correct about the difficulty. It's actually quite easy if you plan out your character builds and battles. Nightmare is a piece of cake. Though, it's a bit harder if you're using 2h weapons. But still, nothing as terrible as some would have you believe. And if you don't want to put any thought into it, you can just play on easy. That's where there's an easy mode. Maybe some people wish they could play on nightmare without actually putting effort into it? What's the point of that, I wonder.

That game was ruined the moment they signed on with SOE..

[Gliese]

Anzurok wrote...

I think what really happened was this: People complained about KOTOR being too easy, which it was. The game almost played itself... and people complained about getting too much money in other BioWare games (15,000 gold for one quest in BG II, I think, or close to it). Then they went and probably had a fit, said things and shouted curses at their screens and slowly began to hate us (by "us" I mean, us... the people here in these forums). So now we get a game that is harder than any other BioWare game to date and has less than 500 gold total in the game, assuming you pick up everything you can and do every side quest. Face it, BioWare hate us, and they delight in making us suffer.

This game harder than BG2? Hardly. Sure there are a ton of exploits in BG2 but you have to work real hard just to learn the ins and outs of that game.
Can you walk into a room and be slaughtered because you're low level in DAO? No. Can you be instakilled by numerous spells? No. Do you have to thoroughly understand the magic system to excel at it? No.

[Jab0r]

(15,000 gold for one quest in BG II, I think, or close to it).

That was how much you had to pay to complete the quest, yes.

[Jonfon_ire]

marshalleck wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

And thus was born the bizarro SWG universe where the galaxy, during the height of the rebellion, was populated by hundreds of thousands of Jedi and Sith lords, instead of just Yoda, Obi Wan, Luke, Vader, and the Emperor. And why 9 out of 10 players in TOR will be force users.

At least though TOR is set at a time where there are lots of Sith and Jedi about.

And at least Sony Online Entertainment and Bioware never tried to claim that the Jedi / Sith get their powers from magic bacteria.   I think Mr Lucas was watching one of those Yakault / Danone yogurt drinks ads when he thought that one up. "L. Casei Magicus"

I think what really happened was this: People complained about KOTOR being too easy, which it was. The game almost played itself... and people complained about getting too much money in other BioWare games (15,000 gold for one quest in BG II, I think, or close to it). Then they went and probably had a fit, said things and shouted curses at their screens and slowly began to hate us (by "us" I mean, us... the people here in these forums). So now we get a game that is harder than any other BioWare game to date and has less than 500 gold total in the game, assuming you pick up everything you can and do every side quest. Face it, BioWare hate us, and they delight in making us suffer.

I really haven't found this game any harder than BG2 really. As for money 500 gold = 5000000 copper. BG2 just had a single type of coin, it didn't divide them into divisions. It's just that a Gold piece is worth / means different amounts in both games (I mean didn't an inn in BG2 cost 5 gold a night? 5 chunks of gold to sleep in a room for the night!!!)

Modifié par Jonfon_ire, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:46 .

[rumination888]

Mordaedil wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

...what? Wrath of the Lich King sold waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 4 million. It sold over 5 million boxes alone. Its impossible to track digital sales since theres so many online vendors, but you can bet that the vast majority of the expansion's sales are digital.

My source.

Is the WoW expansion even available for digital sales? I don't really know.

The source for that wiki is a 1 year old announcement from Blizzard.
And yes its available for digital sales... Blizzard themselves sell it digitally!

Anyways, this is offtopic.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Gliese wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the hardcore tactical rog crowd feels the game is too easy on nightmare while some casual gamers seems to struggle on easy. Bioware tried to please all and pleased none?

I'm a hardcore player, I think nightmare is too easy... but to say that I am not pleased with DA:O would be far from true.

I love it, I just want to see adjustments made or a new mode added to improve what we've already got.

[Gliese]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

Gliese wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the hardcore tactical rog crowd feels the game is too easy on nightmare while some casual gamers seems to struggle on easy. Bioware tried to please all and pleased none?

I'm a hardcore player, I think nightmare is too easy... but to say that I am not pleased with DA:O would be far from true.

I love it, I just want to see adjustments made or a new mode added to improve what we've already got.

I've only played hard so far and found it a bit easy (on my 2nd run now). I know if I powergamed and cheesed more I'd probably find nightmare a bit easy as well but yeah I love the game and have a good hope that it will be modded to perfection in the future.

[xguild]

The big problem with game development is that when you create a game you have to create a mechanic, which is usually mathmatically based.  The result is that there is always going to be a part of your player base that will effectivly break down the math, find the flaws by creating those perfect builds which end up making the game easy.  If you try to challenge the mathmaticians by making the math harder to break, those that don't to the math and just play the game using their gut with no research find it way to difficult.

For example, I play the game and I have never read a bloody thing about building characters.. I chose mage because it sounded cool and I buy skills when I level up based on what i think might be interesting to have and I choose companions and run companions in the same fashion.  The result is that playing the game on normal is quite a challenge for me, though Im a gamer and  I learn quickly so I adapt and work with what I have hence I can get through the game (perhaps not always on my first try) but I sort of learn as I go.

I think Im an example of a average gamer (not a casual gamer) but the most common type of gamer.  I play as often as I can make time for but generally speaking I just play the game i don't give much thought to researching how to beat the game, I just find ways to beat it through practice and testing things out on my own.

In either case this is why there is always a sort of split community in any game (in particular MMO's) who find themselves on one or the other side of the fence viewing a game as either too hard or too easy. 

My recommendation to everyone is... enjoy playing the game and don't give so much thought to the mechanics and you will find a great game that is both challenging and interesting.  Do rogues suck?  I have no idea... are mages overpowered ?  Who cares... when your not trying to break the mechanic those things really don't matter so much.

[Balkar]

Iggynous wrote...

...persinally i think if you find anything hard you needa suck it up, harden up, toughen up, put your head down and work at it, and you'll get good eventually

Err...am I the only one getting dirty thoughts reading this?


Anyway, I consider the game difficulty to be alright and I completely agree with people saying it depends on your party setting and your efforts in min-maxing. I myself prefer to play in a roleplay style rather than min-maxing which sometimes can lead to an easier playthrough or on the contrary, one where most of the useful characters get killed before they even get a chance to join:whistle:.

So I think even if you beat the game on nightmare with one of your party it doesn't mean you'll be able to for all your playthroughs. There's a difficulty scale for a reason.

[Aezay]

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

The funny thing is though, SWG was so much better before they made Jedi something everyone could be. Then came the CU and then the NGE, after that, most people quit. But before SOE ruined the game, it was the best MMO I've ever played due to its open world, player housing and complexity when it came to crafting.
Sadly I hear crafting in TOR isn't going to be very complex, at least not anything near the SWG level.

Modifié par Aezay, 04 décembre 2009 - 04:56 .

[Deathstyk85]

Gliese wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the hardcore tactical rog crowd feels the game is too easy on nightmare while some casual gamers seems to struggle on easy. Bioware tried to please all and pleased none?

"some casual gamers" i consider myself a casual gamer, although i am good at games. i played on normal, i had a few trouble spots here and there, but i found it interesting. im not hardcore in the least, because im not interested in simply making the game harder to make it last longer, i like a challenge, but i know my limits, and i also love story in games.
that being said ive beaten the game once, and have two characters about halfway through, i dont want to finish them any time soon, i plan on experiencing the dlc while the things you can get there are still worth while, not from an epilogue save just so i can get new shinies and go "great....now i still cant leave my camp, but i look great doing it!"

[Deathstyk85]

Anzurok wrote...

I think what really happened was this: People complained about KOTOR being too easy, which it was. The game almost played itself... and people complained about getting too much money in other BioWare games (15,000 gold for one quest in BG II, I think, or close to it). Then they went and probably had a fit, said things and shouted curses at their screens and slowly began to hate us (by "us" I mean, us... the people here in these forums). So now we get a game that is harder than any other BioWare game to date and has less than 500 gold total in the game, assuming you pick up everything you can and do every side quest. Face it, BioWare hate us, and they delight in making us suffer.

no you didnt get 15000 gold, you needed to give this guy 15000 gold. but it is true, money was much easier to get in the game, but things cost waay more, and there were plenty of ways to dump your money(paying for priestly services etc wich were hella expensive)

[Deathstyk85]

Aezay wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

The funny thing is though, SWG was so much better before they made Jedi something everyone could be. Then came the CU and then the NGE, after that, most people quit. But before SOE ruined the game, it was the best MMO I've ever played due to its open world, player housing and complexity when it came to crafting.
Sadly I hear crafting in TOR isn't going to be very complex, at least not anything near the SWG level.

unfortunately the majority of people dont want complex, they want to sit there without thinking and bash at a keyboard until their monitor says new high score. although tor will be much much more indepth and challenging than games like say, wow, wich have gotten progressively easier over time. ( i used to play, dont judge me! lol)
but i still see great things happening with TOR and i plan on giving it a shot (im hoping to get into beta atm )

[Wyllowe]

Boils down to some folks preferring to simply "twitch", rather than think their way through. I prefer to think.

[xguild]

Deathstyk85 wrote...

Aezay wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

The funny thing is though, SWG was so much better before they made Jedi something everyone could be. Then came the CU and then the NGE, after that, most people quit. But before SOE ruined the game, it was the best MMO I've ever played due to its open world, player housing and complexity when it came to crafting.
Sadly I hear crafting in TOR isn't going to be very complex, at least not anything near the SWG level.

unfortunately the majority of people dont want complex, they want to sit there without thinking and bash at a keyboard until their monitor says new high score. although tor will be much much more indepth and challenging than games like say, wow, wich have gotten progressively easier over time. ( i used to play, dont judge me! lol)
but i still see great things happening with TOR and i plan on giving it a shot (im hoping to get into beta atm )

I don't think there is any truth to that at all, what you have is an elitist point of view and its a lame one at that.  Star Wars Galaxies pre NGE and CU was a great game but it had nothing to do with complexity, it had to do with offering ample choices.  The complexity was why no one played it despite that fact.

A game's only purpose is to be entertaining and what defines entertaining varies depending on who you ask, but to proclaim that complexity somehow makes game better is BS, because there are plenty of ridiculously awsome games that have zero complexity (Diablo II for example) and plenty of games with insane complexity that turned out to be turds barely worth a flush (Master of Orion III).

[Schyzm]

Aezay wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

The funny thing is though, SWG was so much better before they made Jedi something everyone could be. Then came the CU and then the NGE, after that, most people quit. But before SOE ruined the game, it was the best MMO I've ever played due to its open world, player housing and complexity when it came to crafting.
Sadly I hear crafting in TOR isn't going to be very complex, at least not anything near the SWG level.

how are any of the positive attributes you named mutually exclusive with being a jedi?

[JaegerBane]

Rolenka wrote...

You could, but the method to unlock it was a secret, until the developers discovered there was a real chance NO ONE would unlock it, ever. It was revealed, but it took hundreds of hours of grinding. Then it got progressively easier until it was just an option at character creation.

This is a perfect example of what MMOs are very poor at. You can get waway with giving the human player awesome options to allow them to smash armies to pulp, but with MMOs, those options have to be balanced against the fact that everyone else has them.

The only way to get around that is either to not have them at all (boring) or give only a few people them (in which case the people who don't have them stop playing).

[Aezay]

Schyzm wrote...

Aezay wrote...

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

The funny thing is though, SWG was so much better before they made Jedi something everyone could be. Then came the CU and then the NGE, after that, most people quit. But before SOE ruined the game, it was the best MMO I've ever played due to its open world, player housing and complexity when it came to crafting.
Sadly I hear crafting in TOR isn't going to be very complex, at least not anything near the SWG level.

how are any of the positive attributes you named mutually exclusive with being a jedi?

SOE changed the entire game over night, they dumbed it down, so it was no longer the game I feel in love with. But I guess new players might like it, at least it still have servers running.
In SWG you could live without doing any killing. You could become a crafter or an entertainer and make your income that way. When they changed the game, they pretty much made the entertainers and crafters useless, so all the people who played the game for those reasons no longer had a game. SWG was WoWifed.

But for an MMO I think its best to make the player a "nobody", it's silly to make everyone a hero. Which is basiclally what you do by letting everyone become a Jedi.

Modifié par Aezay, 04 décembre 2009 - 07:33 .

[Basil Hallward]

Schyzm wrote...

very fascinating rationalization for denying people the ability to be a jedi in a game based on the star wars universe. but lol I would never pay for a game in the star wars universe where I wasn't a jedi.

You might want to double-check the meaning of that word "rationalization."  I do not think it means what you think it means.

In a game set in the period of the original movies, allowing more than one in a million people to be a jedi would have been, was, a major departure from the backstory of the game.  This is the problem with MMORPGs in general: there are all kinds of things you can't allow players to do that you could allow in a single-player game.  You wouldn't have any such problem allowing the player to play a jedi in a single-player game.

The upcoming Star Wars MMORPG is set back int he days when jedi were common, thus avoiding the problem.