201 réponses à ce sujet

[Henioo]

I chose it for the first time based on what little info I had. I did not go for Control because that was what TIM would do. I did not go for Destroy because I did not want to sacrifice some species (synthetics) so others could live (organics) because that is what the Reapers do and I worked for three games to prevent that.

The star kiddo did not explain the repercussions of each ending and thus my choice was blind at best. Now that I know the consequences, I'd probably go for Control, make reapers fix the relays, let go of EDI, geth and other non-hostile AIs and go back to the dark space.

[HopHazzard]

With the synthesis ending, I keep imagining that somewhere in the ME universe there's a world much like ours is today with a pre-FTL, modern industrial species just going about its existence, completely unaware of the reapers and the war that's raging throughout the galaxy. Then all of a sudden there's a big flash of green light and the next thing they know, everything is a cyborg and they're all just standing around going "WTF just happened?"

[Legion is Skynet]

I dismissed synthesis and control as soon as Reaper Jesus brought them up, because of how blatantly and obviously wrong the two choices are. Then the little twerp had to go and say "Uh, oh yeah! The Geth and EDI and YOU YOURSELF will die with this option, because I'm spiteful and absolutely no other reason."

Still chose destroy.

Modifié par Legion is Skynet, 06 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[darkhorsedan72]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The chance to stop organics ageing and succumbing to disease whilst also granting synthetic beings true 'life'? Sounds pretty good to me.

In the ME universe, people are getting augmented all the time. It is inevitable that eventually synthetic and organic life will become virtually indistinguishable.

Synthesis also provides the best hope for the future: its logical to assume that organics will become more intelligent as a result and this, combined with the now friendly Reapers, means technological advances will come thick and fast. Plus, problems such as starvation etc in the aftermath of the war will be gone.

My main problem is that it seems to work by magic though.

That's assuming it stops ageing and people getting ill. You would have to consider that viruses will become synthetic also, and for computer viruses to perhaps become organic, so people can still become ill. Also machines and synthetic matter can age, there is nothing to say the Synthesis will cure the universal problem of entropy. 

On top of that, the merits/pitfalls of stopping ageing is a whole philosophical debate in itself.

You make some interesting points though. 

[Sharrack]

As none of the endings was really worth considering on this Shepard, there where no more dialog options, shooting that apparition did nothing and Shepard would die either way, i just choose the most utopian one.

[stwebber]

I didn't choose it because i didn't want to become the BORG.

You *will* be assimilated.
> No Thanks

[masseffect420]

Kill

[Pandaman102]

Because Synthesis is actually Shepard impregnating every man, woman, and toaster in the galaxy. That's good enough for me.

[darkhorsedan72]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Because if you take the Catalyst at face value, it is a good ending. It avoids genocide and actually makes peace with the Reapers, who are after all the collective minds of countless species. Destroying them or enslaving them is undesirable. All knowledge contained in them will be lost forever if you destroy them. As for what exactly the Synthesis does and more about why I think it is a good ending, see my Synthesis thread:

http://social.biowar.../index/10515916

And there's the crux of my problem with it. You have to agree with what the Catalyst says about synthetics wiping out organics. I don't believe it can say with any certainty that synthetics will wipe out all organic life in the galaxy, any more than I could say with any certainty that it will never happen. That hope, or belief in the strong possibility that organic life could make it and live in peace with synthetic life is reason enough not to choose Synthesis. The fact that my Shephard can turn around and say to the Catalyst - "Hey I brought peace to the Quarians and Geth" is reference enough to entertain the possibility of peaceful co-existence.

At the end of the day, organic life is in just as much danger from other rival forms of organic life as it is from Synthetics. 

[DESTRAUDO]

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...
 only  valid reason I can see for choosing Synthesis is that you completely believe what the Starchild is saying, 

I chose synth, and yes i did believe everything he told me. 

Why?

Because your are forced to take him at his word. In that the game made a huge error. 

If the star child can lie, then why would i believe him when he says shooting this red thing would kill all the reapers and himself. Why would it tell me how to kill it. Why could it not be lying about destroy, and be trying to get you to blow up the power conduit on the right that feeds power to the console on the left, which is where you could make your actual choices from. 

See, to engage the scene at all you have to assume the catalyst is telling the truth, there in lies the true problem with the ending. 

Okay, maybe when I use words like 'believe what the Catalyst is saying', I don't mean to say I think it's lying. I suppose it would be more clear to say "do you agree with the Starchild's assertion that synthetic life will certainly wipe out all organic life in the galaxy". 

It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Do you remember the thing about the technological singularity? That bit were organics inevitably create synthetics that will kill out all life? That bit that is *only* addressed, at all, in the synthesis ending (starchild says synthesis solves the problem)?

[Nu-Nu]

I chose it because it's the only one Joker smiles in, that's is the only reason why. I based my ending decisions purely on Joker and not on the stupidity of the rest of the endings.

[Sharrack]

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Because if you take the Catalyst at face value, it is a good ending. It avoids genocide and actually makes peace with the Reapers, who are after all the collective minds of countless species. Destroying them or enslaving them is undesirable. All knowledge contained in them will be lost forever if you destroy them. As for what exactly the Synthesis does and more about why I think it is a good ending, see my Synthesis thread:

http://social.biowar.../index/10515916

And there's the crux of my problem with it. You have to agree with what the Catalyst says about synthetics wiping out organics. I don't believe it can say with any certainty that synthetics will wipe out all organic life in the galaxy, any more than I could say with any certainty that it will never happen. That hope, or belief in the strong possibility that organic life could make it and live in peace with synthetic life is reason enough not to choose Synthesis. The fact that my Shephard can turn around and say to the Catalyst - "Hey I brought peace to the Quarians and Geth" is reference enough to entertain the possibility of peaceful co-existence.

At the end of the day, organic life is in just as much danger from other rival forms of organic life as it is from Synthetics. 

So in your opinion Control would be the only choice, as Destroy would wipe out all synthetic live, not only the Reapers. Problem with Destroy and Control is that, depending on your playthrough, they both go against anything you believe in and stood for.

[darkhorsedan72]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...
 only  valid reason I can see for choosing Synthesis is that you completely believe what the Starchild is saying, 

I chose synth, and yes i did believe everything he told me. 

Why?

Because your are forced to take him at his word. In that the game made a huge error. 

If the star child can lie, then why would i believe him when he says shooting this red thing would kill all the reapers and himself. Why would it tell me how to kill it. Why could it not be lying about destroy, and be trying to get you to blow up the power conduit on the right that feeds power to the console on the left, which is where you could make your actual choices from. 

See, to engage the scene at all you have to assume the catalyst is telling the truth, there in lies the true problem with the ending. 

Okay, maybe when I use words like 'believe what the Catalyst is saying', I don't mean to say I think it's lying. I suppose it would be more clear to say "do you agree with the Starchild's assertion that synthetic life will certainly wipe out all organic life in the galaxy". 

It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

That's an objective way of looking at it I suppose. If Shephard as you played him/her was able to look at it in that way and trust the wisdom of the Catalyst and the cycle then more power to them I suppose. Myself and by extension Command Shephard in my particular playthrough isn't prepared to accept that as an inevitability.

Looking at it the way you do it makes sense that from the Reapers perspective the reasons they are doing what they are doing is beyond the understanding of organics.

[Candidate 88766]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Candidate 88766:
Do you mind if I quote your post in my thread?

Go for it.

[Candidate 88766]

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The chance to stop organics ageing and succumbing to disease whilst also granting synthetic beings true 'life'? Sounds pretty good to me.

In the ME universe, people are getting augmented all the time. It is inevitable that eventually synthetic and organic life will become virtually indistinguishable.

Synthesis also provides the best hope for the future: its logical to assume that organics will become more intelligent as a result and this, combined with the now friendly Reapers, means technological advances will come thick and fast. Plus, problems such as starvation etc in the aftermath of the war will be gone.

My main problem is that it seems to work by magic though.

That's assuming it stops ageing and people getting ill. You would have to consider that viruses will become synthetic also, and for computer viruses to perhaps become organic, so people can still become ill. Also machines and synthetic matter can age, there is nothing to say the Synthesis will cure the universal problem of entropy. 

On top of that, the merits/pitfalls of stopping ageing is a whole philosophical debate in itself.

You make some interesting points though. 

Its not an unreasonable assumption - synthetic upgrades are already used for medical reasons in the ME universe, so its not a leap to imagine that synthesis allows organic life to finally overcome things like ageing.

Also, synthesis brings about peace. There'd be no-one to make viruses. There's no crime, not hate, no poverty, no starvation, no disease. Organics get to keep their form and their life whilst getting all the benefits that synthetic life enjoys. Its the opposite of what the Reapers did - they forsook everything for the benefits that synthetic life has, and in doing so lost what made them alive in the first place.

Of course, you're right about entropy. Heat death is inevitable, but synthetic lifeforms can survive far longer than organic lifeforms.

[llandwynwyn]

Anyone feel synthesis was made worse with Javik? 'We failed because we were too similar'. Then Shepard makes everyone the same.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Do you remember the thing about the technological singularity? That bit were organics inevitably create synthetics that will kill out all life? That bit that is *only* addressed, at all, in the synthesis ending (starchild says synthesis solves the problem)?

Yeah, only if you believe that.

Modifié par llandwynwyn, 06 avril 2012 - 12:08 .

[IGoosI]

Technically speaking I never chose any because they were all dumb.

HOWEVER.

The only reason I can see for choosing synthesis is it keeps the geth and EDI "alive" (and by extension helping the quarians as the geth are helping adapt the quarians imune systems) AND eliminates the threat of any possible synthetic and organic war in the future. Unfortunatly now everything has irritating glowing green bits (I mean really). Sad but true.

Modifié par IGoosI, 06 avril 2012 - 12:09 .

[katamuro]

when i played it through the first time I couldnt kill geth. then I reloaded and played through the other 2. And understood that nothing really matters. So i chose the breath one.

[DESTRAUDO]

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...
 only  valid reason I can see for choosing Synthesis is that you completely believe what the Starchild is saying, 

I chose synth, and yes i did believe everything he told me. 

Why?

Because your are forced to take him at his word. In that the game made a huge error. 

If the star child can lie, then why would i believe him when he says shooting this red thing would kill all the reapers and himself. Why would it tell me how to kill it. Why could it not be lying about destroy, and be trying to get you to blow up the power conduit on the right that feeds power to the console on the left, which is where you could make your actual choices from. 

See, to engage the scene at all you have to assume the catalyst is telling the truth, there in lies the true problem with the ending. 

Okay, maybe when I use words like 'believe what the Catalyst is saying', I don't mean to say I think it's lying. I suppose it would be more clear to say "do you agree with the Starchild's assertion that synthetic life will certainly wipe out all organic life in the galaxy". 

It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

That's an objective way of looking at it I suppose. If Shephard as you played him/her was able to look at it in that way and trust the wisdom of the Catalyst and the cycle then more power to them I suppose. Myself and by extension Command Shephard in my particular playthrough isn't prepared to accept that as an inevitability.

Looking at it the way you do it makes sense that from the Reapers perspective the reasons they are doing what they are doing is beyond the understanding of organics.

See. This is why i think the endings are genius in theory. It gives three solutions that all have pros and cons and that can all be justified from a point of view. What killed the endings is that to choose destroy you have to break character and trust the catalyst as a synth or control person might. 

Destroy as an ending should be selected by default in the room where you open the arms and the crucible should fire the destroy beam automatically. You should be invited by the catalyst to consider the other options upstairs and be able to tell him to scram if you do not. That way the catalyst has nothing to do with your destroy choice and you are never forced to trust it.  If you take the offer the crucible does not auto fire and you can choose control or synth.

Modifié par DESTRAUDO, 06 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[Yokokorama]

I never even got the point of this ending. Yeah sure we're all half robot now, but does that stop us from making pure synthetics again? Its not like we can't go to a junkyard and make traditional robots. I don't even understand how this was supposed to be a solution.

[eoinnx03]

No idea. Why any of the endings. I just don't play the endings anymore just stop at London.

[darkhorsedan72]

[quote]Sharrack wrote...

So in your opinion Control would be the only choice, as Destroy would wipe out all synthetic live, not only the Reapers. Problem with Destroy and Control is that, depending on your playthrough, they both go against anything you believe in and stood for. [quote]

Yeah, and even that choice I made grudgingly. I'm not a fan of the ending(s) by the way.  I think introducing a game changing twists in the closing moments to be a particularly bad move. In thrillers it can work, but in the types of media that's in the action adventure vein, you bring a twist or reveal like that in sooner a bit like when you meet Vigil and find out what the Conduit is in ME1.

Modifié par darkhorsedan72, 06 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[Ares14916]

Because after standing their like an idiot for 5 minutes in sheer incomprehension of the travesty of an ending I was experiencing, I just went "F IT! WE'LL ALL BE ROBOT PEOPLE" and then quit the game to make sure the others were just as bad...and they were...and I had a nice 10 hour depression sleep...

[Ieldra]

DESTRAUDO wrote...
It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

I agree with your arguments. That's part of why I choose Synthesis with my main Shepard. However, I still think the Catalyst needs to explain that "in 999 of 1000 times synthetics try to wipe out organics, and what happened here was an exception". Just accepting it without even asking how his own experiences fit makes Shepard look like an idiot.