201 réponses à ce sujet

[flamingplatypus]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

AlienSpaceBats wrote...

I chose it because I went the wrong way!

Seriously, I thought I was walking towards the part where you shoot (to get the destroy ending) next thing I know, Shep drops his pistol and jumps in!

Oops.

How that was done was pretty shoddy i think.  People should have gotten a button press to confirm what they wanted to do before auto cutscene took over. My brothers ending was totally ruined by this, as he tried to explore the area before making his final choice. Was auto pushed into control ending.  

Agreed. All of my video game instincts screamed, "HEAD FOR THE GLOWING THING!".
I was expecting a terminal that I would pick from, or something similar.

[Sharrack]

Mr. Zapp wrote...

To me, it doesn't matter that maybe becoming half Synthetic might be superior in some ways, even though that isn't implicit at all in the choice, it seems like it just gives everything a funky skin as far as the ending shows. But implicit in this choice is that you agree that the color of someone's skin or whether someone is organic or synthetic is the fundamental problem, rather than people's fear of what is different or unknown to them.

I think that doesn't matter in this scenario. While it's not a good solution it's the best we can choose from(besides mindcontroling a whole species or genocide on two+). Is it a good solution? No. Are the others worse? At least in my opinion.

[Sharrack]

AIR MOORE wrote...

No, he doesn't state that at all... rewatch the endings on youtube again.

He says the choas stems from:


The created will always rebel against the creators, and that creates chaos. (It is the next line after he talks about choas... that the choas is from the created always rebelling against creators).



That is pure speculation... (the second part)... there is no reason why these future creations would be a mix of the two things... since they are made from inorganic (but not yet synthetic) raw materials, there is no reason they would be both?

You're right. Guess i mixed it up with something different i was reading. EDIT: It's something Javik says during a dialog about Legion and the Geth.

On the second part, it's my take on the ending, that everything got changed including how chemistry actually works.

Modifié par Sharrack, 06 avril 2012 - 01:08 .

[braisbr1]

I chose synthesis, and I don't think it is the worst possible outcome. I understand many of the things people say, like if you choose this then everybody is the same, forcing people to do this, etc... but it's all open to interpretation, speculation for everyone! haha

No, but really, I believe it to be the best possible outcome. All right, I give you that depending on what happens next it could be the worst, and that it is unthinkable to rewrite DNA and all those things, but--- on the other hand, you can also think that synthesis doesn't change anyone, you are still "you", but you can be free of all strains - food, water - and that there's no negative impact on people.

I know, how would anyone do that...? Space magic! I know it sounds like s***, but anyway all endings do, so... I chose synthesis and wait for a proper explanation.

And that's one of the reasons why we should be mad about the endings, because they are an insult to our intelligence.

[chuckles471]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The chance to stop organics ageing and succumbing to disease whilst also granting synthetic beings true 'life'? Sounds pretty good to me.

In the ME universe, people are getting augmented all the time. It is inevitable that eventually synthetic and organic life will become virtually indistinguishable.

Synthesis also provides the best hope for the future: its logical to assume that organics will become more intelligent as a result and this, combined with the now friendly Reapers, means technological advances will come thick and fast. Plus, problems such as starvation etc in the aftermath of the war will be gone.

My main problem is that it seems to work by magic though.

Loss of humanity.  You would just become a husk with a better skin care treatment.

Also Edi shows that they can learn and understand feelings.

Also Also Legion saying "I".  Manly tears.

[K2LU533]

Choosing synthesis seemed like a good idea at first but then I realised that destroy would be the best for me. Synthesis destroys diversity, completes the reapers goals, and agrees with their logic that organics and synthetics cant co-exist. The main thing that went through my head during the choice scene was that if this AI controls the reapers, how can I possibly trust what he says?

Control seemed like a bad idea to me, who knows if Shep could actually control them or if his influence would wane over time?

Destroy seemed like the right thing to do, potentially sacrificing EDI and the Geth seems like a reasonable price to pay to finally destroy the reapers. The AI's reasoning of the peace won't last, I don't buy. Also, who knows if EDI and the Geth are truly destroyed? Could this not just be speculation or lies by the AI?

I also don't think that we are given enough information by the AI to truly commit to synthesis or control, we don't know what the potential aftermath could be of these choices, destroy is the choice with concrete consequences.

So, in all:

Control: Could bite Shep in the ass
Synthesis: Agrees with the Reapers logic
Destroy: Destroys the reapers, the only logical choice to me.

Modifié par K2LU533, 06 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[pfellahX]

I knew blue was just wrong, so it was down to red and green. My reasoning was twofold, if flawed:

1) I thought it was utter crap that I had to kill the Geth and EDI as part of the destroy ending. I didn't care so much if I had to sacrifice myself, but killing the Geth when I had just ended centuries of war (and EDI when she had made an important leap into a higher level of awareness) seemed so pointless. In short I cared (too much?) about the good things I had accomplished up to that point.

2) I suppose if I'm being honest, I got seduced by game mechanic -- that offering you a third choice is somehow "better" -- and didn't really think through the implications of the Green ending. Now that I think through the idea that you're throwing out the idea of all the races working together in favor of forced homogeneity... screw that, man.

So in short... I screwed up, and if I hadn't found out all three endings are 98% the same, I'd go back and replay to get a Red ending.

[Sharrack]

K2LU533 wrote...

Choosing synthesis seemed like a good idea at first but then I realised that destroy would be the best for me. Synthesis destroys diversity, completes the reapers goals, and agrees with their logic that organics and synthetics cant co-exist. The main thing that went through my head during the choice scene was that if this AI controls the reapers, how can I possibly trust what he says?

Control seemed like a bad idea to me, who knows if Shep could actually control them or if his influence would wane over time?

Destroy seemed like the right thing to do, potentially sacrificing EDI and the Geth seems like a reasonable price to pay to finally destroy the reapers. The AI's reasoning of the peace won't last, I don't buy. Also, who knows if EDI and the Geth are truly destroyed? Could this not just be speculation or lies by the AI?

I also don't think that we are given enough information by the AI to truly commit to synthesis or control, we don't know what the potential aftermath could be of these choices, destroy is the choice with concrete consequences.

So, in all:

Control: Could bite Shep in the ass
Synthesis: Agrees with the Reapers logic
Destroy: Destroys the reapers, the only logical choice to me.

Argumentation has on serious flaw: If you doubt him with one thing (Control being achievable) why should he tell you how to achieve something he was fighting against all the time.

[Mr. Zapp]

Sharrack wrote...

Mr. Zapp wrote...

To me, it doesn't matter that maybe becoming half Synthetic might be superior in some ways, even though that isn't implicit at all in the choice, it seems like it just gives everything a funky skin as far as the ending shows. But implicit in this choice is that you agree that the color of someone's skin or whether someone is organic or synthetic is the fundamental problem, rather than people's fear of what is different or unknown to them.

I think that doesn't matter in this scenario. While it's not a good solution it's the best we can choose from(besides mindcontroling a whole species or genocide on two+). Is it a good solution? No. Are the others worse? At least in my opinion.

That is only true if you accept the premise, however! Which is my point, it wouldn't change anything. If your belief is that cooperation between people who are fundamentally different is what makes us strong rather than promoting a single species/culture.. making everyone the same doesn't solve anything. It would maybe placate the Reapers for a while, who apparently all believe that there can't be peace until everyone is the same. Basically it's conceding defeat to the Reapers, who will be a wild card in the future, but when will people be similar enough for them? You'd still have to solve their basic reasoning flaw somewhere down the line, except of course you've sacrificed yourself, so you can't.

If you accept the premise by the Reapers and reject unity with different people, it does make sense, but I just can't. The rest of the Mass Effect series, funnily enough, seems to provide that path for me and even prove it to be right in many cases (Geth/Quarians/EDI/Joker/etc).

[lillitheris]

braisbr1 wrote...

I chose synthesis, and I don't think it is the worst possible outcome. I understand many of the things people say, like if you choose this then everybody is the same, forcing people to do this, etc... but it's all open to interpretation, speculation for everyone! haha

The biggest problem is indeed that you're forcing it on everybody. (And obviously it doesn't make sense, and you should probably ask someone else before agreeing and so on.)

on the other hand, you can also think that synthesis doesn't change anyone, you are still "you", but you can be free of all strains - food, water - and that there's no negative impact on people.

While it's probably implied that it won't really affect people psychologically more than ‘normal’ augmentation would, you still need energy, even assuming that you don't really eat anymore. For a complete mechanical construct like a geth, think about how much energy your computer/laptop takes and multiply that by 100. Plus hardware maintenance, lubrication, and so on.

Edit: Although in my happy ending thread I argue that it indeed is the Paragon choice…

Modifié par lillitheris, 06 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[Roguekad]

I picked it because it seemed like the lesser of three evils. TIM's control option seemed like 50,000 years down the line my Shep would be in Harbinger's shoes... Er tentacles really, destroy would be genocide ( I had peace withe the Geth and Quarrians. Plus really what's the likely hood Joker is going to get another girlfriend). I got that Synth was the Christ like sacrificial ending for Shep and in that respect it fit my Shep who'd been a hull paragon for all three games. The pir e of genetic conformity as hard downside to swallow especially after all that had been mentioned previously about that diversity being important.

If I can ever bring myself to replay it with my main Shep I'll go destroy to get the gasp ending. Still odd that my full paragon and full regenade would both pick the same option. That normally doesn't happen.

[Nerevar-as]

Sharrack wrote...

K2LU533 wrote...

Choosing synthesis seemed like a good idea at first but then I realised that destroy would be the best for me. Synthesis destroys diversity, completes the reapers goals, and agrees with their logic that organics and synthetics cant co-exist. The main thing that went through my head during the choice scene was that if this AI controls the reapers, how can I possibly trust what he says?

Control seemed like a bad idea to me, who knows if Shep could actually control them or if his influence would wane over time?

Destroy seemed like the right thing to do, potentially sacrificing EDI and the Geth seems like a reasonable price to pay to finally destroy the reapers. The AI's reasoning of the peace won't last, I don't buy. Also, who knows if EDI and the Geth are truly destroyed? Could this not just be speculation or lies by the AI?

I also don't think that we are given enough information by the AI to truly commit to synthesis or control, we don't know what the potential aftermath could be of these choices, destroy is the choice with concrete consequences.

So, in all:

Control: Could bite Shep in the ass
Synthesis: Agrees with the Reapers logic
Destroy: Destroys the reapers, the only logical choice to me.

Argumentation has on serious flaw: If you doubt him with one thing (Control being achievable) why should he tell you how to achieve something he was fighting against all the time.

All Starbrat had to do was wait for the Reapers to destroy the Crucible. Yet it takes Shepard to its presence and gives Shep the available options. Even when only Destroy is available and thus the only possibility is (from its POV) to end the cycle and allow chaos through the galaxy. Between that and the fixing Singulairy by creating said SIngulairy itself I think Starbrat´s logic is nuts. And I´d really like to talk to whoever wrote that part of the game. Did they stop and think about what they were writing even once?

[Calamity]

 In ME2, when talking with Mordin, when he is talking about the collectors. He talks about when a race (the collectors) have evolved to such an extent, the race then stagnates. There is no more growth - no art, no culture, etc... This is what I see when given the option to "evolve" all *edit* organics.

Modifié par Calamity, 06 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[Sharrack]

Mr. Zapp wrote...
That is only true if you accept the premise, however! Which is my point, it wouldn't change anything. If your belief is that cooperation between people who are fundamentally different is what makes us strong rather than promoting a single species/culture.. making everyone the same doesn't solve anything. It would maybe placate the Reapers for a while, who apparently all believe that there can't be peace until everyone is the same. Basically it's conceding defeat to the Reapers, who will be a wild card in the future, but when will people be similar enough for them? You'd still have to solve their basic reasoning flaw somewhere down the line, except of course you've sacrificed yourself, so you can't.

If you accept the premise by the Reapers and reject unity with different people, it does make sense, but I just can't. The rest of the Mass Effect series, funnily enough, seems to provide that path for me and even prove it to be right in many cases (Geth/Quarians/EDI/Joker/etc).

That's one of the Reasons i don't like the Endings: they negate the rest of the Game in the believes you can stand for.
And in the synthesis not everybody is the same there just isn't any distinciton between organic and synthetics. If i have to decide between sacrificing some of my diversity (not all of it, as in my opinion the Scene with Joker and EDI in the end of the synthesis ending shows) and killing a friend or doing something against what i believe in i think i woukld take the sacrifice.
And again it is a bad ending but better then the others although i might change my opinion after we get the extended version and bioware tells us what they actually meant with synthesis.

[Candidate 88766]

Going to attempt to reply to multiple comments, so this could go horribly wrong.

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

But how do we know it brings about peace? For the sake of appearances at least, a Krogan will still look like a Krogan, and an Asarii will still look like an Asarii, except now their DNA has become partly synthetic. So unless it completely changes the very nature of every being in the galaxy (which to me would be incredibly immoral) it will not eradicate war. Yes we can assume that becoming part synthetic would change everyone in some way, but the kind of degrees of change that would end conflict all together would probably dramatically change the very essence of who each individual in the galaxy is.

So, assuming it did bring about peace and no one was making viruses, what happened to the organic viruses that already existed? You would assume they would become synthetic but does that mean it would stop acting like a virus and spread disease?

As to the first point, wars are generally only ever fought for two reasons: resources or beliefs. With synthetic upgrades, resources are far less of an issue - food and water won't necessarily be needed as much, and land will be more abundant as organics will be able to survive in more conditions than before (while asusmptions, they're not unreasonable assumptions to make about synthesis). And as for beliefs, synthesis will do away with arguments over different religions or political views. If we take the Geth as an exmaple: the Heretic Geth have different views to the majority, but instead of fighting each other they are fine with it because they understand each other, and it is often a lack of understanding about alternate views that leads to war.

As for viruses, it stands to reason they'd become partly synthetic too. However, they no longer need to spread and infect in order to survive. Its an interesting point though.

AIR MOORE wrote...

Good try, but, you are forgetting a few things:
He says: "The created will ALWAYS rebel against their creators", there is NOTHING about what the created and the creators are, synthetics or organics... anything that is created will always rebel against their creator. 

What? Why do they not have reason to create more synthetics? Explain why they would not want to do this (again the whole point is you have to explain the game doesn't)... it would make their life easier, as they would have a slave race to to their bidding. Inferiority is the exact reason why one would expect them to create something else to do their bidding, and for that created thing to rebel. Your point of inferiority proves my exact point.


Also you forgot about a main character in the series... Legion.  He states in ME2 that his portion of the geth reject being overcome by the Reapers for the fact that they think they are wrong. So it isn't purely about synthetics vs organics... even the reapers vs the geth (Legion) show us synthetics will not automatically accept the synth/organic reality. 

 

The Catalyst also says there will be peace.

You're quick to believe the other stuff it said, so why not this?

Synthetics were created to do things organics couldn't - they can be stronger, faster and more intelligent. They don't tire and have no need for payment. However, after synthesis all life has these benefits as well as all the benefits of organic life - such as taking pride in work, which would lead to a better quality of said work. Synthetic life would now be inferior, and creating a race of inferior beings to do labour is highly illogical.

chuckles471 wrote...

Loss of humanity.  You would just become a husk with a better skin care treatment.

Also Edi shows that they can learn and understand feelings.

Also Also Legion saying "I".  Manly tears.

That depends on what you believe synthesis does. I personally believe it just gives everyone all the best traits of synthetics - not ageing, immunity to disease, not tiring. All the best traits of organic life such as love or joy or pride or curiousity are still there, and I'd argue that those are what make us human. We already try to make up for the shortcomings of our bodies by wearing clothing or glasses. In the ME universe humans and other organics have synthetic upgrades inside them. Its inevitable that eventually the lines between organic and synthetic wil cease to exist, but that doesn't make the characters any less human or alive.

And I too shed manly tears when Legion died.

[Kastrenzo]

A lot of people probably thought it was supposed to be the "best" ending because it was shoved in their face all the time.

[Ericus]

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

i dont really get it either because when you boil it down.. you are totally accepting the premise of space ghost and worse than that you are making the choice for the entire galaxy you are fulfilling the reapers ultimate goal for them..

bet the reapers dont even call you the next day

Yeah, the moral implications of rewriting the DNA of every organic being in the galaxy (which I assume must include things like plants and bacteria as well) are staggering. When I was presented with that I just thought "Shephard isn't big enough to make that sort of choice". If the future of intelligent life in the galaxy is to become partly Synthetic we should arrive at that point under our own steam otherwise, like you said, we are just developing along the path that the Reapers - and by extension the Catalyst's - desire.

Excellent statement!  Synthesis is not something that should be imposed on anyone... let alone everyone.

[Sharrack]

Ericus wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

i dont really get it either because when you boil it down.. you are totally accepting the premise of space ghost and worse than that you are making the choice for the entire galaxy you are fulfilling the reapers ultimate goal for them..

bet the reapers dont even call you the next day

Yeah, the moral implications of rewriting the DNA of every organic being in the galaxy (which I assume must include things like plants and bacteria as well) are staggering. When I was presented with that I just thought "Shephard isn't big enough to make that sort of choice". If the future of intelligent life in the galaxy is to become partly Synthetic we should arrive at that point under our own steam otherwise, like you said, we are just developing along the path that the Reapers - and by extension the Catalyst's - desire.

Excellent statement!  Synthesis is not something that should be imposed on anyone... let alone everyone.

You mean as oposed to genocide or mindcontrol:)

[PsyrenY]

Because I want everyone to be walking iphone

[aj2070]

Short version: it was the lesser of three bad options. Two of the presented options lead to genocide; kill all synthetics in "destroy", or destroy all organic and synthetic life to create a hybrid life form in "synthesis". The third option is forces Shepard to become the very thing he/ she has been fighting against for 3 or 4 years in game time. Control made no sense to my play through because my Shepard had just killed the Illusive Man for that very line of thought.

[Firnwind]

I choose synthesis because its the only choice that makes at least a tiny bit of sense to my shepard who tried to bring the galaxy together, the different races, be they syntethic, organic or whatever. Other choices was to become a galactical tyrant like the ilusive man, or to destroy part of the people that my shepard would give everything to protect.

Of course for the galaxy and logical choice besides space magic there can by only the red ending. And thats what they will take as canon ending for their next mass effect games...

[AlienSpaceBats]

DargaardKeep wrote...

I helped EDI and Joker develop a relationship along the way. I also helped EDI become more "human" during the game.

The synthesis ending which included EDI and Joker together on a strange new world was a very good ending to me.

I liked that bit. I just wish I knew what happened to everyone, all the planets, races...

[refuse81]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

darkhorsedan72 wrote...
 only  valid reason I can see for choosing Synthesis is that you completely believe what the Starchild is saying, 

I chose synth, and yes i did believe everything he told me. 

Why?

Because your are forced to take him at his word. In that the game made a huge error. 

If the star child can lie, then why would i believe him when he says shooting this red thing would kill all the reapers and himself. Why would it tell me how to kill it. Why could it not be lying about destroy, and be trying to get you to blow up the power conduit on the right that feeds power to the console on the left, which is where you could make your actual choices from. 

See, to engage the scene at all you have to assume the catalyst is telling the truth, there in lies the true problem with the ending. 

Okay, maybe when I use words like 'believe what the Catalyst is saying', I don't mean to say I think it's lying. I suppose it would be more clear to say "do you agree with the Starchild's assertion that synthetic life will certainly wipe out all organic life in the galaxy". 

It is not a question of whether i believe it though. I know that sounds strange but hear me out. 

In my personal experience in the game, everything that happens says the catalyst is wrong. EDI, peace with the quarians and the geth. Overlord. However my view is based on personal experience of my cycle. The catalyst, the entire reaper system was created for a reason, and based on their experience over hundreds of cycles since that reason was to them solid.  If in their experience 999 out of 1000 machine races tried to wipe out their masters then my accomplishments dont mean jack, because the geth turn out to be in the catalysts experience an exception to the rule which does not break the necessity for the rule and which may have happened before. 

The crucible was created for the sole purpose of offering an alternate set of solutions to the organics of a cycle to the problem the reapers were created to solve. Two of those choices do not destroy the reapers. This shows that the problem the reapers were meant to fix was considered a valid one, even by those who thought up the crucible.

Destroy is a short term solution. It does not solve the problem.

Control is not a solution. It simply passes the task of dealing with the problem directly into the player characters hands. It is now your responsibility to use the reapers to prevent synthetic life wiping out organic life. You may decide to wipe out synthetic life whereever it appears. You may decide to shepard the new machines created by a civilisation to a place of safety , you may choose to do anything, but you will still have to do it. And you wont be able to do it without bloodshed.

Synth as presented removes the distinction between organic and synthetic life. It removes the grounds for prejudice that allows organics who create synthetics to declare.. This is not a person. This thing has no soul. This thing has no rights. Will there still be war, and hate and death in the galaxy, yes. There is just one less reason for it. 

Hello Saren.

[The Speedster]

It seemed like the best option to me. It avoids genocide, allows for the evolution, through integration, of both synthetic and organic life and stops the cycle, limiting the possibilities of it beginning again in the future when another synthetic race is created. Of course it's playing God. But isn't destroying all synthetic life or commanding the Reapers the same thing?

As for all the discussion about the Starchild, the way I see it is that the child is really only in Shepard's mind, because Shepard's IS the Catalyst. The Crucible is the trial that every generation of organics, in every cycle, has faced. Shep is the Catalyst. Through his efforts, the construction of the Crucible has been made possible, and it's the first time it's completed. Basically, Shep has passed his trial and the "solution" of the cycles, to impose order on the universe preserving both organic and synthetic life, is now invalid. As he's the Catalyst, he's the one to change everything. He has been indoctrinated? Yessir. Indoctrinated and tested. And so he gets to make the decision that will change the future, forever. And that, ultimately, is what you - the player - have to do. Decide if you think synthetic life is life, or not. If you think it must be allowed to exsist, or not, and how.

The great efforts made by Shepard are what allows him to have a "green" choice, through which you can ensure that you do not have to choose between synthetics and organics, but you can save both. It all makes sense, to me at least.

[MattFini]

Synthesis is the most pretentious, ridiculous option.

Oh, we'll all be infused with synthetic matter (and vice versa) and therefore everyone will always get along!

Cool. Let me know how that works out for you.